CP broke my heart

[MagnoliaJane]

Oh, I forgot, any comments to these in relation to commitment phobics?

 

C as in Control and as in Critical (of others)

D as in Dominant

P as in Perfectionist

E as in Extreme (extremely warm or overly cold)

[jgbronc]

Man Magnolia, you are easy to talk to. To answer your question, she had two serious relationships and a substance abuse problem when she was a teenager. Her first serious relationship lasted 4 years from age 14-18. She became very ill (sinus problems-they thought it was a tumor) and after a month in the hospital, he left her. Then 2 years later her ex-husband (lets call him Tim) came into the picture. He was chasing her and she was not into him. She went out with him for a while but he got tired of her games and dated someone else. A year later, the woman Tim was dating called her. She informed her that even though Tim was with her, he wanted to be with my CP. Low and behold, she now became interested in him, they dated, she got pregnant and got married. As soon as she "fell" for him, he became distant. Did not get involved in her pregnancy and began a string of extra marital affairs. How she stayed with him for 10 years is beyond me. They divorced 2 1/2 years ago. In that time she has been out with 3 other guys but none of them lasted more than a few weeks. Now enter me. You talked about control. She has been basically by herself for the last 13 years. She is used to just her and her daughter and I really think that that is all she wants. Her family absolutely loved me and thought since we had made it to 3 months that I was the one for her. Her 8 year old daughter even told her that I was the one. I spent the day with her daughter last Thursday for the first time while she was working. Then we all went to a doctors appointment for her later that afternoon. While we were at the doctors office, she said "this is weird, but not in a bad way." Meaning she was not used to a third party being there. A week later she ended it. Haven't heard from her since. Does this sound like CP to you?

[jgbronc]

MJ

 

You also talked about CPs being overly cold or overly affectionate. She was very affectionate and told me that she wanted me to touch her in public. You know hold hands, wrap my arms around her. Once again, her ex never really showed her any affection so she craved it. So I thought that this was a good sign. I guess in my mind right now I just can't come up with any other reason for her behavior. People earlier in this post told me that I should stop using it as an excuse and just come to grips with the fact that she just wasnt that into me. Its easy to say that when you are outside looking in but I know how she was with me. Like I said earlier, to send me a text message asking me to marry her a week and a half ago to sending me an email to end it on Wednesday just doesn't compute unless you figure she is scared as hell and running for her life!

[jgbronc]

MJ, one more thing before I call it a night. You talked about every little thing leading into an argument. We didn't have that bc we only were together for 3 months. But on Sunday night we got into our first and last argument. She told me that as we were fighting -i said "you are irritating me tonight" that when I said that she wanted to run. Said that the relationship wasn't worth it. And then she did exactly that. Once again, not in control and not wanting the responsibility of sharing that control with someone else. Sorry for all the posts but you keep saying things that are hitting home. Seems like with the exception of the time we were together that our CPs are very similar. i.e. clothing, control, etc.

[UnknowingOW]

Funny, control...interesting word, and defined differently by almost everyone.

 

When I met my CP is really wasn't that interested in him, but he was certainly interested in me. He pursued me like there was no end in sight. I had not been in a serious relationship for 6-years, and wasn't looking when we met.

 

He was kind, funny, articulate, and intelligent. He would call me 8-times a day. I had never in my life had someone give me such attention. We never argued. He spoke of marriage within the first 3-months of our relationship and I had my red flags up. He was 42 and I was 36 then and he had never been married.

 

As soon as I realized I loved him things begain to change. He would only see me on Sat nights because Fri night was poker night (which I didn't care about), but he quit seeing me during the week. I brought this to his attention and that was our 1st arguement.

 

He was methodical about his bills...hates being in debt, his home was paid for via cash. His car was a 2-year no interest loan. He was very financially responsible. His home was nice, but dated furnishing (from the 80's), and he was/is a slob. I'm not saying he didn't clean up well, he did. However, I hated staying at his house because his bedroom was filthy. YUCK! Even the pillowcases...double yuck! And, he wouldn't pay to have AC put in his house because the summer season is to short in CT.

 

I remember he began pushing me away and I was walking. He grabbed me and said, "are you leaving me? don't leave me...I need you." It pulled me right back into the relationship. Things didn't change though. And I didn't enter into a relationship expection everything but his actions were screaming volumes about who he really was...I just didn't understand what it was about then until I learned of CP.

 

The control though...that's what hits home. As I would tell my CP, you are in control of the relationship because my wants and needs are not being fulfill and yours are. What I meant by yours is; he was in control of when we saw each other. He was in control of selling his home. He was in control of asking me to come to see him. He did none of these things, but wanted me to stay in a relationship that wasn't going anywhere.

 

As long as I was there for him via the phone emotionally he was happy in the relationship. When I walked away from the relationship he tried to pull me back with his words, but never his actions. ACTIONS always speak louder then words.

 

What I know of his past is he ran everytime his relationships wanted to move forward. His last one before me was 6-years. They had a great relationship, but...she wanted to get married and have children. He didn't. He was happy as they were. She finally upped and moved to another state. They saw each other breifly and then one day she told him; "it kills me to see you. you make me to upset...I never want to see you again because you don't want a future with me."

[alphamale]

alphamale,

 

Could you please elaborate more about that?

 

Magnolia

no, i don't wish to elaborate

[MagnoliaJane]

Wow Jgbronc and UnknowingOW:

 

There was no internet at my home last evening, so I just came in to work today.

 

Thank you so much for sharing your stories! I've never joined a forum before in my life, have always been too proud to reach out, especially in public. In my family we ALWAYS keep our heads up, no matter what, and keep the "dirty laundry" inside. But honestly, after this relationship, I came to a point in life where I seriously started to question the purpose of everything, so I figured I had nothing to lose. And just to know that there are so many sensitive, analytical and warm people out there helps a lot! I have been so sucked into the destructive parts of this relationship that all I have been able to feel and think the past year was that I should shut up and say no more.

 

Jgbronc, although you might regret now that you spoke your mind to her at the time about feeling irritated, saying nothing is not an option. I've kept most of what I felt inside after my first break-up with D., but where has it lead to? Nowhere. You know, in the beginning he wanted to know everything about me, so I opened up, but then he turned that around and said everything was about me. That scared me like hell, I started to seriously question whether I was so selfish. He had made such an incredible effort to make me feel "at home" in his appartment, but when he started saying those things he would send me home (like a little child) saying I had to think about myself and my actions. I would say, no, let's talk things through now, please, but he would repeat "there's nothing you can say or do, just go home and think about it". What a HORRIBLE feeling!!!

 

So, that was a turning point I guess, when the issue of control became clear. He stopped cooking for me, stopped walking to work with me, HE would call me (I stopped calling him), and he would decide what would happen next. And all I was thinking of all the time was "what should I do to show I love him". I just couldn't accept where things had gone to...

 

In the meanwhile, the withdrawal from my side had made him feel better, and so he came back looking for me, telling me that he "now appreciated me better for the wonderful woman I am". At that very moment I should have told him "hey, wait a moment, let's talk about what has happened first", but I said nothing.

 

And everything went fine as long as I behaved according to HIS expectations. So one day, he was sweet and was asking me "where I wanted to get married", and we were lying in bed, some vulnerability crept in my mind and I told him something he obviously didn't like to hear, took everything personal without asking me one word of explanation and then abandoned me.

 

I guess the control side can go THAT far... whenever YOU are saying or doing something THEY don't expect, they feel manipulated by you (that's what he told me afterwards). I was so intimidated that I didn't have the guts to tell him "manipulating that's what you are doing". I guess I didn't have the guts bc noone had forced me to be submissive, I did that on my own and only have myself to blame for it.

 

Bottom line, I wonder if it goes like this: they are hypersensitive and feel it when they "get" you. Then they test how far you would run if they treat you a little bad. When they feel you don't run at all they'll work it out on you, everything that you are doing "wrong" in their eyes, up to realizing your greatest fear. Maybe that's all kitchen psychology but I feel like a truck has run over me. Oh, and let's not forget it: I allowed that truck to run over me.

 

It's all about passive-agressiveness, but nevertheless agression.

 

And the worst part is, the shame, afterwards.

 

UnknowingOW you wrote "he tried to pull me back with his words, but never his actions". Do you think this refers to a lack of empathy or bonding (HIS own needs and wishes and not YOURS). I mean anyone who has feelings also has an ability to imagine how someone else must be feeling and hence take these feelings into account.

 

D. says when he was a child and beaten up by other children he "dissociated". I believe he's still able to block out anyone else from his world. When sitting on the couch and him telling me "he was already gone" I felt like I could almost touch his emptiness. It was devoid of any empathy and just filled the room. And again there was "nothing that could be said or done to undo it".

 

UnknowingOW, how do you hang in there with him still calling you?

 

I'm seriously thinking now about how I facilitated this kind of relationship.

 

Magnolia

[UnknowingOW]

Hi Magnolia...Had to get some shopping in for the game tonight or I would have responeded sooner.

 

I've tried to analyze the reasons for his words vs his actions. I cannot find any correlation between them...they just don't make sense. He has some empathy, and I think he feels as though we are "bonded" in some way, but to be honest his type of bonding is not healthy because it's one-sided.

 

He would say things to me and I would be looking him in the eye and it was like a blank stare looking back at me...he just didnt' get it.

 

My CP came from a normal family. Although his father was a drinker, but not physically abusive. He was also raised a stringent Catholic, school and everything. I've always been suspicous regaring his religious upbringing because of his lack of interest in sex...and I mean anything sexual freaks him out.

 

I feel he is dissocated with himself, but I cannot put my finger on what it is....it's an emptiness within him which no one can fill. Sad isn't it?

 

As for him calling me, I've known my CP for almost 6-years. I was engaged to him for 1-year, and we've been broken up for over a year. I am his only true friend; the only person he shares anything about himself with. I've had over a year to get past the hurt, anger and resentment of of our relatioship. I have made him promise to never speak of a future with me.

 

He will not talk to his friends or family in CT...that would show he's not emotionally good with them, so he refuses to do it. And everyone needs someone to talk to. But think about this also, he's 900-miles from me, so he is safe and never has to have physical contact to have a conversation.

 

As I said before, he's been in counseling off and on for almost 3-years now. And his counselor doesn't even know all the truth yet. I've told him many times to be completely honest with her...he can't. He doesn't want her to think badly of him. I've tried reassuring him many times she won't, but he won't give an inch.

 

Magnolia, I am where you are regaring how in the hell I ended up in relationships with him, and the last incident of dating someone who turned out to be married, and my ex H. Because of all this I am doing a self-imposed dating hiatus. I have attracted all the strays with problems...lol. Hopefully this hiatus will help me, and it's also why I try to stay busy in every aspect of my life.

[jgbronc]

MJ-I just forced myself to go out and hit the gym. Man did it feel good. I mean people are right when they say you have to get out and try and get back into a groove. I am a little surprised right now that I have not heard anything from her sisters. If she has told her family, I figured they would have called. Like I said, they have been rooting for me and hoping this would work out between us . I also wonder how she is handling it. Is it driving her crazy and she wants to call. Does she think she made the right decision. Once again I am trying to not over analyze all of this but that is all you can do at this point. When we had been dating for 4 weeks and she called to say she needed space, we had nc for 5 days. In that time she said she could only think about me. That she missed me and it drove her crazy. Is it possible that a Cp could just end things so quickly and feel no regrets? I met her on Match and activated my profile again yesterday. Not looking to meet anyone right now. Just hope she will see it and think that she didn't mean that much to me afterall. Sick I know but thats how I feel. Just too fresh of a wound I guess. And she may not be a true commitment phobe, but she is definitely afraid of being vulnerable!

[MagnoliaJane]

Jgbronc,

 

there's a good chance she's missing you. But then again... how much will that thought make you feel better? And for how long? Really? Bc, in the end, in life there might only be so few things that matter. If I would be able to choose between being missed or respected I'd go for respect. I screwed that up this time, but will try to keep it in mind next time.

 

Would you like her to call? Would you like to call her yourself? How did you cope with previous relationship break-ups?

 

A friend once told me she thinks the most interesting people are the once who are the most "confused" (euphemism for screwed up). Maybe that says more about the person who's saying that then is meant to be... You can't find love where there is no love. Still, if we don't find it where we are looking for it, we try harder instead of looking elsewhere. Why? For the challenge? Bc we can't accept defeat?

 

I know for myself that I don't seek out "easy" situations. In my job I am good at problem solving. Everything is rational in science and I've chosen that. Then in my personal life I chose the most irrational thing to do and got stuck in it.

 

Sometimes I feel we are all digging for a bone. We are not finding the bone but keep on digging.

 

Jgbronc I just hope to wake up one day and "feel" something will be different in my way of thinking. Preferrably without a brain transplantation. Bc I feel I cannot go back to who I was before I met this guy.

 

Magnolia

[MagnoliaJane]

UnknowingOW,

 

Have fun watching the game! In a few minutes I will go outside to catch some SUN (before fall and winter set in.... brrr).

 

You wrote your Cp has never been physically abused. How about emotional abuse? A drinking father seems pretty absent to me.

 

D's father left his mother with 4 young children and ran off to another country. After a while he came back, got back together with the mum, then they got a divorce. Even now when D. tries to contact his father and leaves a message he doesn't call back. His mother is pretty helpless, in the sense that she doesn't know how to solve any problem. D.'s older sister is completely withdrawn in her own world, his brother is angry all the time, and D., well he tries to counter all that by creating his own world. Btw, I've never met his family, but since D. has virtually no friends his family and work are all he talks about. He's so convinced he's doing so much better than them! Wow that really blows my mind. I should have told him that, but thought I should just stick with listening. Unfortunately, a gf cannot be a psych (hence my job problem solving skills are nowhere helpful).

 

How do you feel about yourself, UnknowingOW, after a year of getting over this? Do you feel you are out or still attached to the problem?

 

I feel there's this big empty space in my life now. Sure I can fill it up with lots of things, but as you make choices in life you also limit your degrees of freedom. For instance, I chose a very demanding job (which I'm not giving the attention it deserves right now), so I should either go for it or abandon it all together. Since I invested already so much into it, and it is something worthwhile and creative, albeit not "flesh and blood" and "warm" and "giving", there's really not that much of a choice...

 

Magnolia

[jgbronc]

Magnolia,

 

Sure I would like her to call, to say that she made a mistake, that she was confused. I guess its wishful thinking. But I also remember the first break we took. I honestly didn't know if it was over or not. Had the same feeling then that I have now. The not knowing. Then she called and it was as if the time did her good. So I guess I reason that her feelings of fear start to take control of her emotions. She runs. Then as the fear subsides, she starts to get back into the missing department. The scary thing here is if this happens, there is a pattern that will develop. Ive heard all the stories of people who have a fear of commitment. I like to think that she is different. That she just needs some time to let things cool down. Maybe she was on her period, hormones, etc., etc., A thousand thoughts. My Aunt told me a story about my Uncle. When they first started dating, things went well. All was fresh and new and my Aunt fell in love. After a few months of dating, she started expressing feelings of marriage. My Uncle told her that he loved her, but did not want to get married. So, as hard as it was for her, she ended it. Said she was a wreck. Did the tough love thing and was miserable for 2 months. After they had been apart for that long, he called and said that if marrying her would keep her in his life, that he would do it. They have been married since for over 20 years. So she was thinking the same thing that I was 20 years ago when she ended it. And it worked out in the end. That is where I am at. Like a seasaw, up one minute and down the next. Now don't think that I am going to call her. I cant. This was her choice and the way she did it was not very adult of her. For me to call would let her know that she has me right where she wants me. Its like a war. One that I never thought I would have to fight. And one more thought. Its a very very bitter thought to know that I may never hear from her again!

[UnknowingOW]

His father was distance and more involved with his older sister then my CP. Yes, he still holds anger towards him, and his father passed in the early 80's.

 

How I feel...much better. I do not cry anymore. I do not try to solve his problems anymore. I've taken back my life on my terms. I don't feel attached to his problems anymore. I do still counsel him, but when I make a point about a behavior or something he calls it attacking, so I don't offer my 2-cents anymore. I just listen and say good luck. Why give advise which will never be used or considered?

 

Your right your choices do limit your freedoms. For me it not to be involved in a relationship for 2-years. I never want to find myself in the situations I have been in ever again. And you are right again, when all this "crap," as I call it, is consuming your mind, it's very difficult to focus on work or anything else needing your attention.

 

I have become a workacholic over the last 1.5 years. A fully admit I used it as a coping mechanism to get past my feelings. Did it work, sometimes, but it doesn't replace the love and comfort of a true relationshp.

[MagnoliaJane]

Jgbronc, how did the rest of the weekend go? Heard anything from her?

 

UnknowingOW, do you feel you're over him? I was thinking that you deserve a medal for still allowing this guy into your life. What he did to you is so hard. Maybe he can't help it, but that's still no excuse to treat people that way, isn't it?

 

This morning I woke up and it hit me hard. This past relationship has never been about me, as a person. Me, as an object, yes, as a vehicle to pour his attention on as long as he decided so. That sounds bitter, but I don't feel bitter. I start to understand. I noticed how he could be overly friendly to some people and cold and distant to others. The ones he was being friendly to were actually the ones he needed something from (whatever, a business deal, attention, admiration, acceptance, or love...).

 

I don't want to judge him, but I don't want to excuse him either. We all make mistakes, and that's ok, but it is also about HOW you make those mistakes. If you shower a woman with attention because you want her in a way to "fix" your problem (not getting scared this time, not running away, not feeling threatened), then that's NOT OK. A partner can never be a psych.

 

Anyway, just some 2-cents thoughts this morning...

 

Be easy on yourself guys... I will try to do the same thing... Heck, I'll even try to be easy on him...

 

Magnolia

[jgbronc]

MJ- I have to say that I called her on Saturday night and got her voicemail. I know I should not have done it but I felt it would give me some sense of closure. I told her that I was over the anger and that I wished nothing but the best for her and her daughter. I also told her not to beat herself up, that we gave it a shot and in the end it just didnt work out. Have not heard a peep from her. Her sister called me yesterday and this was the info. My ex and her sisters went out on Saturday night for "girls nite out." She told them that I had left a message. Evidently, it was not a very good time. According to her sister, my ex was not the same, left early and was just not herself. When they asked her why she had ended our relationship (they also thought things were going well) she could only say that there was something missing and she thought it would come with time. But it did not. Her sister said that she is very guarded emotionally and its difficult to tell how she really feels. My hope is that by extending the olive branch, she will at least call to say goodbye, hello or just anything to let me know that I was part of her life. Like I said earlier, its hard to believe that she would just run away and not call. Just have it end with an email. Any thoughts? The funny thing is that if she knew what was missing, she would have told her sisters right? So once again we are back to the bewilderment of is it me, or is it her.

[MagnoliaJane]

Jgbronc,

 

It's remarkable that her sister is more communicative to you than she is. It's also remarkable that her sister called you, or not?

 

Maybe what is missing is her own "drive" to commit. Maybe she was waiting for that feeling to come???... I think D. was (and is!) waiting for someone who will (miraculously) not scare him off. But the thing is HE scares HIMSELF off. So maybe they want something from us they can't give themselves? Just guessing...

 

I heard nothing from D., 20 days now. I know I can always call him, he probably would be happy to hear from me because my phone call would not involve any (emotional) investment on his behalf... Anyway, I stay put. nc.

 

Still, I think it's sweet you called her and said what you said. Man that women is made out of iron for not responding. Only time can tell what happens, BUT... don't ignore yourself or your own feelings. Sacrifice can only go that far...

[jgbronc]

MJ- How strange we are. I mean you have someone who still wants you in his life. And maybe that is a good thing. I mean he can only go so far, and that point is where he is with you. It is not enough for normal people like you and I . But for them, it is the most they can give. And I have someone who has ended it and I may never hear from her again. So we have the same pain but for different reasons. The unfortunate part is that D is a true CP and has at LEAST communicated with you. My ex cant seem to open up to me. And that is the problem. One day maybe she will meet someone where opening up will not be so hard. And that will be the guy for her. Maybe that is why she talked about the future with me the way she did, trying to convince herself. But I agree. I figured by calling she would at least ring me back. Like I said, the anger is over. And there is a nagging feeling in my mind that she is not calling back bc she misses me and feels like she will pull herself back in.

[MagnoliaJane]

Jgbronc,

 

[One day maybe she will meet someone where opening up will not be so hard. And that will be the guy for her].

 

I am not a fortune teller but I honestly don't think it will go that way. Love is a verb, not a noun. This lady seems to have serious problems opening up. Unless she changes drastically I don't see how she can make any relationship work. To change implies that you are able to look within yourself and that you are willing to go through pain.

 

I have always believed that pain is an inherited part of life, and hence something to work through and overcome. I realize now that not everybody sees it that way. There's no relationship that does not encounter problems on its path. Such a thing does not exist. So, where do you stand then with such a woman by your side? You also have to ask yourself: is that what YOU want?

 

Sure I can talk or meet with D. But I know I will not be getting any more answers or a sense of usefulness than you do. It will be empty and tense. Shall I tell you something? I have long, beautiful hair. Well, last fall it started falling out. At the same time I was going through the first break up with D., worked 12 h a day to keep myself busy, hardly ate at all and lost about 20 pounds (and I'm already slender!). It's a horrible feeling to loose yourself in such a way!!!

 

Now, about a year later, I'm in the second break up and slowly recovering... My hair is still not the same, but getting better again and people are telling me I look healthier and happier. What I've learned from this is to be a bit easier on myself. Not to beat myself up for failing.

 

In between D. came back but he was often distant. Off course there were happy moments too, but deep inside I was tense all the time. I have let go of that tension now, and that is GOOD!

 

So even if you get the lady back, it might be very likely that you will still be struggling with all this. I burned myself twice and don't plan on make that happen to me ever again. And as for D., well he will probably always find a reason to be more faithful to his precious self-defense mechanism than to another living creature. Or at least for a long time. Until he realizes he's got a problem and actively reaches out to seek help.

 

I actually met his former gf once. She's a slender, lovely, fragile looking young woman. Nothing wrong I can say about her. Only that I know she has suffered with that man. Even harder than I did. I know because D. told me about it. I didn't want to judge him then, and nor will I do now, but while telling about this he has never expressed responsibility for all the things that have happened between them. At the time I thought "it was not meant to be". Now I know better.

 

Magnolia

[jgbronc]

MJ- You are probably right about her meeting someone. If she cannot be comfortable in her own skin, nothing that anyone else offers will ever be good enough. Her sisters know she needs to talk to someone. At least to face up to her fear. And that can only come from within her. I think that to her, I looked good on paper. Financially and emotionally stable, affectionate toward her and her family, the exact opposite of her ex. Lets not forget she stayed in a lousy marriage for 10 years. Come on, 10 years. And she was miserable. And that conditioned her to be used to that behavior. So in time, I believe all the attention that I payed her became somewhat of a turn off. Once again, she was used to the exact opposite. So there is a fine line there. And who knows but her. I just know that there is usually a reason that people break up. And when no reason is offered other than something is missing, it forces us to look at the abstract. As I have said, I do not know if she is CP or not, just a hunch based on her behavior and things that her and her family have told me.

[MagnoliaJane]

So JgBronc,

 

I guess the question is, what do you want to do next with your assumptions? Do you think you can get comfortable with not knowing?

 

MJ

[MagnoliaJane]

I am training myself to accept that I will not get anything from D. Sad but oh so true...

[jgbronc]

MJ-that is the dilema. And only time will tell. For me to have called took a lot of courage. If she never calls back, how do i take that? Made the effort to get closure and instead got a big fat empty. But this is all new. Just happened Wednesday so obviously if I do hear from her it will probably be after a few weeks when the pain has subsided somewhat.

[jgbronc]

MJ - can you move on with your life. I am just into this but you have been doing this for quite sometime. Do you think you can meet the right person and let D go?

[MagnoliaJane]

I believe so - yes! I would like to become friends with someone, no dating or nothing romantic for a while for me though... the hurt is just too deep. But guy friends, yes.

 

But I can totally understand where you are now. I was there last year too. The most wonderful man could have knocked on my door and I wouldn't have given him as much as a glance.

 

You know, I've never looked for "someone to marry", I've looked for a soulmate, and not even that consciously. But I had better descended from my tower earlier so I would have better known to distinguish between a good man and a passive-agressive one. I think part of the problem is also me. If I would not put up my standards so high then I would not reserve and project all my attention to this one man who I believe is more special than any other man. He's special all right. But not in a good way.

 

Susan Sonntag once wrote in her diaries: two or three cataracts have fallen from my eyes. A hundred more to go?

 

MJ

[MagnoliaJane]

JgBronc,

 

[if she never calls back, how do i take that? Made the effort to get closure and instead got a big fat empty].

 

Did you say you called because you needed closure? Did you ask her to call you back? Or where you just nice and said all these nice things to her in the HOPE that she would call back?