Are OW immoral?

[RecordProducer]

This is not a situation where the society is involved. I personally wouldn't care what the hell the society thinks of me. It's about 3 people (and often children, too) involved and hurting or causing hurt to someone else. This has nothing to do with the society and the standard it imposes. I am European, but wouldn't tolerate infidelity.

 

It's just immoral that the cheating party is causing so much pain to their spouse. And we're discussing how much guilt in that immoral act is assigned to the OW. Is her act immoral? Is she an immoral person because of that? I think the MM is the one who is imoral in this situation.

 

I am sick of reading the stories like "My wife is wonderful, my kids are wonderful, but this girl was sooo cute..." Dating stops when you're married!

[Rooster_DAR]

Aaaah but that's the power of attraction and the need to pro-create. I still thinks it's mother nature at work, not really caring who's married and who's single. At the same time, I also think it's immoral from a modern civilized human standpoint though, potentially lot's of people get hurt. Turn the whole thing around and see if that sits very well in your stomach. I bet you wouldn't like it much having the roles reversed.

 

[scaredinlove]

The point to my post was, just because you've had an affair you are not an immoral person. Judge not lest ye be judged.

 

No one has a right to judge another morals without looking at themselves first.

 

I

 

 

There is so much hatred on here which I have seen and experienced. I've seen enough strong-arming on this forum from many BS, frequent posters, and guest which does nothing to help the original poster; in fact it makes them feel worse about themselves to the point they feel there is no help to get them out of the affair. What's more amazing is how the orignally poster never defends...why is that? Because the affair is already ripping them to pieces and then can agree or ignore what is negatively posted."

 

 

I agree with you a lot of responses are very offenssive but a lot of people gave usefull feedbacks.I don't know about the other people who post in here but I chose to ignore the nasty posts, most of the time I don't even read them completely.I read the helpfull ones and believe me it has been helpfull.But sometimes the negative feedbacks are good too because I can understand more how people think and why the react certain ways.

 

For example I met my MM in a public place another day and someone from work saw me.because we were holding each others arms my co-worker right away got to conclusions. When I come back she said out and loud to the other person who works there to Hear ;"If you are going to be bad you shouldn't be in public places" I laught and said we are just friends, wich of course they didn't believe. The next day when I was leaving for lunch I had to hear all types of stupid comments, so I had to put them back in their places.I was nasty this time.But reading some posts here I can imagine what they are thinking about me.They haven't said anything to me anymore but only God knows what they say behind my back. Maybe I shouldn't worry about what people think but I feel like I have a scarlet letter glued to my shirt. Though situation, I am just trying to make as much sense as I can out of these.Or maybe like Yousaveme said I am just Thinking too much!

[whichwayisup]

There is so much hatred on here which I have seen and experienced. I've seen enough strong-arming on this forum from many BS, frequent posters, and guest which does nothing to help the original poster; in fact it makes them feel worse about themselves to the point they feel there is no help to get them out of the affair.

 

Just like in real life. DO you really believe ALL your friends, family, co-workers, aquaintences would support you 100%, not give you their thoughts, negative thoughts too, negative reactions, judgements etc etc...? So, instead, people come here, open up and share. Either grow a thick skin, ignore the posts that make you feel bad (and remember, if someone makes you feel bad, then there's a reason why you let yourself feel/react that way, maybe it touches a nerve, or some very harsh advice hurts, but most of the time it's that harsh and tough love advice that gets through and makes the difference...)

[yousaveme]

The point to my post was, just because you've had an affair you are not an immoral person. Judge not lest ye be judged.

 

No one has a right to judge another morals without looking at themselves first.

 

I

 

 

There is so much hatred on here which I have seen and experienced. I've seen enough strong-arming on this forum from many BS, frequent posters, and guest which does nothing to help the original poster; in fact it makes them feel worse about themselves to the point they feel there is no help to get them out of the affair. What's more amazing is how the orignally poster never defends...why is that? Because the affair is already ripping them to pieces and then can agree or ignore what is negatively posted."

 

 

I agree with you a lot of responses are very offenssive but a lot of people gave usefull feedbacks.I don't know about the other people who post in here but I chose to ignore the nasty posts, most of the time I don't even read them completely.I read the helpfull ones and believe me it has been helpfull.But sometimes the negative feedbacks are good too because I can understand more how people think and why the react certain ways.

 

For example I met my MM in a public place another day and someone from work saw me.because we were holding each others arms my co-worker right away got to conclusions. When I come back she said out and loud to the other person who works there to Hear ;"If you are going to be bad you shouldn't be in public places" I laught and said we are just friends, wich of course they didn't believe. The next day when I was leaving for lunch I had to hear all types of stupid comments, so I had to put them back in their places.I was nasty this time.But reading some posts here I can imagine what they are thinking about me.They haven't said anything to me anymore but only God knows what they say behind my back. Maybe I shouldn't worry about what people think but I feel like I have a scarlet letter glued to my shirt. Though situation, I am just trying to make as much sense as I can out of these.Or maybe like Yousaveme said I am just Thinking too much!

 

 

I try and not think too much into certain things. Our situtation is stressful and diffucult enough at times to handle. What i think of myself is most important and i dont have time in my life to worry about what others think.

[UnknowingOW]

Of course you do not believe everyone who gives you advise, you will take from it what you want and/or need. But the difference between those you physically know and the ones on LS is; your physical friends, family and co-workers love you, respect you, and will forgive you...even if they disagree with you.

 

Most of the time the people in your inner circle have never experienced an affair, so they can only tell you how they would react. So poster's come to LS because they are affraid to confide with their inner circle, and they seek guidence to get out of the affair and deal with their vexing emotions.

 

Growing a thick skin is not for everyone. It's one thing to give hard advice; it's another to be harsh and condeming of a situation you have never experienced.

 

I did not come here to agrue.

 

But I can say with absolute certainity, the LS'er which helped me the most were the one who had been in an affair, and were out or getting out. They understood the delicacy of the emotions and how utterly confusing the whole affair is. They understood what it was like to love someone they should not love. They understood how self crictical and judgemental you view yourself.

[Rooster_DAR]

(and remember, if someone makes you feel bad, then there's a reason why you let yourself feel/react that way, maybe it touches a nerve, or some very harsh advice hurts, but most of the time it's that harsh and tough love advice that gets through and makes the difference...)

 

So very true!

[UnknowingOW]

(and remember, if someone makes you feel bad, then there's a reason why you let yourself feel/react that way, maybe it touches a nerve, or some very harsh advice hurts, but most of the time it's that harsh and tough love advice that gets through and makes the difference...)

 

So very true!

 

That was part of my original statement that morality is self-defined. It's your inner voice telling you what is or isn't acceptable to yourself or others.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

Just trying to figure myself up....Does being with a MM makes me immoral.Cheating on my H makes me immoral.Did you ever asked yourselves these questions?Or am I just thinking too much?

 

Yes, having an affair with a MM is immoral. If you have to ask, then I don't think what we say matters much to you. You will form you own opinion and do it anyway.

[Rooster_DAR]

Achums Razor - all things being equal, the simplest explanation is most often the correct one

 

I think the above philosophical statement is related here as well. If you have to question whether something is right or wrong and feel like it could be wrong, the more than likely it is. Probably does not always hold true for every situation, but probably worth mentioning.

 

roost

[GreenEyedLady]

I don't think that everything is black or white. Is lying immoral? If your friend, SO etc asks you,"Do I look fat in this?" and they do, what are you going to say? Some people are more black and white thinkers and others are ones who see shades of grey. You can see who's who from their posts.

[UnknowingOW]

Achums Razor - all things being equal, the simplest explanation is most often the correct one

 

I think the above philosophical statement is related here as well. If you have to question whether something is right or wrong and feel like it could be wrong, the more than likely it is. Probably does not always hold true for every situation, but probably worth mentioning.

 

roost

 

Do you mean Ockhams?

[pricillia]

I cant think that way. Sorry..Im following my heart and if that makes me immoral then so be it. I dont mean to so cold-hearted about the morality of who im involved with, but i like i said i didnt go out looking for this situtation. Would have rather found him and be involved with him if he wasnt a MM. But i cant change the situation about how we met.

 

Everyone has their opinion. And i cant worry about what others think of me.

 

 

I am sorry you save me I know that you say that you are following you heart, but the 9-11 suspects were followfing thier hearts too does not make it right, of course this is a different degree. I am not judging you I have been there and am having a hard time letting go, Listen just don't stick around too long without a commitement from him it will get the best of you.

[CrushedOrgans]

I don't think that everything is black or white. Is lying immoral? If your friend, SO etc asks you,"Do I look fat in this?" and they do, what are you going to say? Some people are more black and white thinkers and others are ones who see shades of grey. You can see who's who from their posts.

 

saving someone's feelings by not saying "yes, you look fat" is a little different than screwing that person's spouse and ruining their marriage.

 

yes, you absolutely can see who's who from their posts. that, i agree with.

[whichwayisup]

I don't think that everything is black or white. Is lying immoral? If your friend, SO etc asks you,"Do I look fat in this?" and they do, what are you going to say? Some people are more black and white thinkers and others are ones who see shades of grey. You can see who's who from their posts.

Comparing white lying about "do I look fat in this outfit" to an affair is apples and oranges. One is protecting someone's feelings, out of consideration and respect, and the other one isn't.

 

Saving, I think one day something will happen and it will open your eyes, the blinders will come off and you'll see the situation differently that will make you stop, realize WTF I AM DOING, (your own breaking point) and you'll end it. I just don't know when that time is for you, but I do hope it's sooner, rather than later. Just shield your heart, don't be so open around your MM as he has so much potiental to hurt you.

[Guest]

A post that will go against so many...

 

My questions is, who in the world has the right to define what is and isn't moral? Is judging someone else right? [/Quote]

 

A lot of work places will judge. For example a police department will judge there officers including what you do during off duty.

 

Morality is self-defined; unless you are a believer in Judo-Christian ethics. But then again, those are just guidelines for how to you live your life.[/Quote]

 

It is not just Judo-Christian ethics that defines Morality.

[KrisMuseumGirl]

I think there is a lot of detail needed to answer that question. Are you cheating with 1 or many? Were you looking or did it just come on you like an interest in Sushi? I am not trializing this, I'm just saying some people cheat for the thrill of getting away with something debaucherous and some do it because they met someone they truly are in love with at the wrong time. I understand how on the surface - it's immoral. But I also understand that sometimes we find ourselves in situations we did not plan. Make sense?

[sylviaguardian]

Wow, this is an interesting discussion. Basically I agree with most here - there are different types of morals. People can either choose to accept the moral code of their own culture or they can be guided by their internal moral code.

 

Your internal moral code might consist of simple statements like: I will not intentionally hurt another person. If our behaviour contradicts our own internal code it lead to feelings of shame. So basically, if it makes you feel ashamed you shouldn't be doing it.

 

Now there will always be people who genuinely don't care about other people and who feel no shame. They will be the ones who pass responsibility onto the MM/MW (i.e. he/she is the one who made a committment not me). But there is always an issue of personal responsibility in life. There are many people who claim 'I did not choose this situation, it just happened'. That is just absolving yourself of responsibility. You can be put in a position where you have $100 worth of clothes in your hand and the shop assistant leaves but ultimately it is your choice if you walk out of the door with them.

 

Here's an interesting aside to this debate - I am the BS and I chose not to tell the OW's husband, basically because I felt like I didn't want to hurt him and their children. It went against my moral code if you like. I have been totally bashed by other BS for this choice, called immoral, cowardly and even a monster, because it was my moral duty to inform the OP about his toxic wife. Go figure! I still don't know what to make of that one.

 

Syl

[whichwayisup]

because they met someone they truly are in love with at the wrong time. I understand how on the surface - it's immoral. But I also understand that sometimes we find ourselves in situations we did not plan. Make sense?

But, it's still a choice on whether or not something happens.

[BenThereDunThat]

But, it's still a choice on whether or not something happens.

 

I completely agree that it's a choice. But we're human and sometimes we falter.

 

Imagine you love chocolate cake and in front of you is a piece of the warmest, gooiest, chocolatiest piece of cake you've ever seen. And it smells like heaven. But. If you eat it, you are guaranteed to break out in painful, ugly, itchy hives. Suppose it's been years since you've had any chocolate cake, let alone this beautiful piece in front of you.

 

And it's telling you soo many lovely things. It loves you. It NEEDS you. Promises you that this piece of cake is DIFFERENT - you won't break out in hives this time!

 

Maybe, for a brief moment, your brain shuts down that voice inside your head yelling at you, warning you about the hives that are sure to follow -- no matter what this piece of cake is telling you.

 

I'm not justifying by any means. I'm just saying. Life is all about choices. Sometimes we are weak and we make a bad choice.

 

I think it's what you learn from the experience, if you grow as a person, figure out some things about yourself. Realize that even though that was the best damn piece of chocolate cake on the planet, just because you wanted it, doesn't mean you had the right to eat it.

 

But, now you know. You went through the pain. You care about yourself too much to be that weak person who eats the cake again. No matter how good it tasted.

 

I'm not recommending having an affair as a growth tool, mind you! And I don't mean to leave the BS out of this scenario. Just drawing from my own experience.

 

I'm just sayin'.....

[blind_otter]

I completely agree that it's a choice. But we're human and sometimes we falter.

 

Imagine you love chocolate cake and in front of you is a piece of the warmest, gooiest, chocolatiest piece of cake you've ever seen. And it smells like heaven. But. If you eat it, you are guaranteed to break out in painful, ugly, itchy hives. Suppose it's been years since you've had any chocolate cake, let alone this beautiful piece in front of you.

 

And it's telling you soo many lovely things. It loves you. It NEEDS you. Promises you that this piece of cake is DIFFERENT - you won't break out in hives this time!

 

Maybe, for a brief moment, your brain shuts down that voice inside your head yelling at you, warning you about the hives that are sure to follow -- no matter what this piece of cake is telling you.

 

I'm not justifying by any means. I'm just saying. Life is all about choices. Sometimes we are weak and we make a bad choice.

 

I think it's what you learn from the experience, if you grow as a person, figure out some things about yourself. Realize that even though that was the best damn piece of chocolate cake on the planet, just because you wanted it, doesn't mean you had the right to eat it.

 

But, now you know. You went through the pain. You care about yourself too much to be that weak person who eats the cake again. No matter how good it tasted.

 

I'm not recommending having an affair as a growth tool, mind you! And I don't mean to leave the BS out of this scenario. Just drawing from my own experience.

 

Wow. I read this and felt my heart drop into my stomach and a wave of memories about my many moments of weakness came over me. I imagined being presented with my "chocolate cake" and good god I very nearly picked up the telephone and made a phone call.

 

But my chocolate cake was cocaine, not a MM.

 

Interesting.

 

I'm just sayin'.....

 

I'Mjustsaying.

[whichwayisup]

The thing is, too many others get hurt, so it's not just ONE person. Eating that cake will affect the person who's eating it...bystanders just watch, where as choosing to eat that cake (have affair) innocent people get hurt and lives change for the worse.

 

Life is all about choices. Sometimes we are weak and we make a bad choice.

 

Yup true, and hopefully most learn from their mistakes and get stronger.

[silktricks]

Here's an interesting aside to this debate - I am the BS and I chose not to tell the OW's husband, basically because I felt like I didn't want to hurt him and their children. It went against my moral code if you like. I have been totally bashed by other BS for this choice, called immoral, cowardly and even a monster, because it was my moral duty to inform the OP about his toxic wife. Go figure! I still don't know what to make of that one.

 

Syl

 

Though I probably would have told, I certainly don't think you are a bad person for making the choice you made. (I doubt that I would have been coming from a very clean place when choosing to tell. )

 

It wasn't an issue for me as the OW was single.

[BenThereDunThat]

The thing is, too many others get hurt, so it's not just ONE person. Eating that cake will affect the person who's eating it...bystanders just watch, where as choosing to eat that cake (have affair) innocent people get hurt and lives change for the worse.

 

 

 

Yup true, and hopefully most learn from their mistakes and get stronger.

 

I'm fully aware that it's not just one person who suffers. I'm just drawing from my own experience. I'm not married, he is, neither of us has any kids. His W shut down her affections years ago. Again. Not justifying, just drawing a different picture.

 

And in case anyone here doesn't know my story, I have walked away, and refused anymore offers of cake.

[FlyingHigh]

I dont think any of us are out looking for our situtations , they just happen for whatever reason.

 

Getting involved with a MM or cheat on your spouse is NOT a situation that "just happens". You MAKE the decision to get involve with a MM or cheat. Earthquakes, lightning or death are things that "just happens". You don't have control over these. BUT you have control of deciding whether to cheat or become the OW.

 

Depending on an individual's personal standards, self-respect, dignity and integrity can be determine your decision level to cheat on your spouse or become the OW or OM.