Life stages and socializing: A cry for assistance.

[Lights]

I'm opening myself up here, possibly foolishly, in a way I have never done before. I implore all who can truly assist me to help.

 

I am in my mid-20s, bordering soon on late 20s. I have never had a girlfriend of any kind, have been on extremely few dates, and am still a virgin.

 

I had hoped years ago to have a fun, hot, empowering social life throughout my youth. Nothing of the sort happened; I spent years getting and feeling virtually nothing but years of rejection and anger. The anger continues to poison me; I have been taking some countermeasures against it, but I fear it may be of no use; I fear that many stages of life have passed me by. I am still also, despite it all, fighting to find ways to make socializing with people more pleasant than painful; this is still not quite happening.

 

Now I am wondering how the future will work. I wonder about a first girlfriend, what will happen over a first breakup, and matters like virginity; stuff that most people have already worked through at barely over half my age. I wonder what will happen if I actually succeed and actually fall in love in a time in my life when I need to have my head on straight to direct and improve a career and all. I also am left clueless about what to do about "getting things out of my system" or "sowing wild oats" (the word choice depends on one's generation, I suppose) at a time when everyone else has done that already and grown beyond it. (To put it more graphically, I don't want to end up as the creepy-looking 38-year-old concocting twisted meditations on how to bag a hot young college girl on his "spring break"!) I don't want to keep missing out on life in this manner.

 

When I see other young people at a distance, contentedly or even happily dealing with other people, especially in couples or group dates, it makes me slightly envious of their success, but extremely pained at what I have lost. I see others who apparently have the ability to grow and have a happy and healthy social, romantic, and sexual life. Viewed one way, I think my pain is insignificant; there are many other people in the world who are much lower on Maslow's pyramid, so to speak. But nevertheless, as time continues to pass, it still burns me away…

 

Sometimes I feel as I've been struck with three life stage crises at once: the young teenager still fighting his way through relating with people and wondering about things like romance and sexuality, the "quarterlifer" trying to improve his life overall and find good directions, and prematurely, the mid-life type looking back sadly over lost time.

 

I'm aware that I'm doing a lot of complaining here; I'm just stuck, not knowing what else to do, with no other effective support system, alternating between figuratively thrashing blindly in the dark and lying paralyzed.

 

Thank you for any help you can offer.

[dgiirl]

I dont know if i can offer much advice. I think what you are feeling is quite normal and a lot of people experience, but not enough are capable of talking about it freely. I find myself often getting caught up with what I call "Red carpet" moments of other people's life and think that's how they normally live day to day. Truth of the matter, life is often boring, and those high's one experiences does not happen very frequently. Sometimes we're privy to other people's high's, but we have to realize that life is not always like that. So when you observe your friends dating and such, you have to realize that you're only seeing the surface of that experience and not really the truth of the whole thing. Try not to get too caught up in what you think other's are experiencing compared to you. We all suffer from lows and highs. And very often we exagerate the experience when looking at it from a third party, yet when we're actually living it ourselves, it's not as much of a high as we imagined.

 

As for experience in dating, I'm not really sure what to say. Again, i think you are caught up with comparing yourself with their surface layer. There are plenty of people who do not have that much experience. I lost my viriginity when I was 21, and married him. I'm now in the process of getting a divorce, and thus, still feel I have very little experience in life. My friend's husband never had a girlfriend before he met her. My other friend never had a serious relationship until she was 30. I can go on and on. I'm sure we all felt frustrated during these low peaks, and compared ourselves with what we percieve others have experienced. But if you honestly open up and talk to people, you'll see they relate to how you currently feel.

 

The only thing you need to continue doing is not get frustrated and work on that anger. The more angry and frustrated you get, the more negative vibes you give to other people, the more they stay away not wanting to get to know you. Also, do not get so wrapped up in trying to "please" people to make them like you. It also gives off negative vibes. Learn to appreciate the life you currently have, and truely cherish and appreciate being single. There's truth in the expression it'll happen when you least expect it. And this is because when you are not looking for a relationship, when you are not looking to fill a void in your life, you are actually happy and confident in life. Then when the right person comes along, they will notice you and be drawn to your confidence.

 

I think you are doing the right thing in focusing and building your career. But at the same time, try to do some things you find fun in your spare time. Dont do it in the hopes of meeting potential mates, but go into it with the attitude of living life. When you get out and meet people, and you have your **** together, people will take notice.

[lulu2go]

Not sure I can be of much help to you either... No amount of self-analysis or analysis of others is going to help you work out how to be happy. I think its sooo important to realise when things aren't working for ya and your stuck. When you realise that, don't carry on doing what your doing.. make a change! Do something you wouldn't ordinarily do and get out of your comfort zone. New opportunities open up in new spaces so find a new space. Life is all about trying new things, making mistakes and learning from them. There is a big wide world out there, see the big picture, do a bit of travelling if it helps gain some perspective. the little things will fall into place on their own =) You probably won't find hapiness with others until you are first happy with yourself =)

[fishtaco]

Good points from both of the previous posters, I'll expand on those and add some of my own.

 

- "Red Carpet" moments. Absolutely true. I have in my cell phone right now a happy couple picture of my friends I was partying with Friday night. One look at them I bet you'd be envious like you have been. The fact is, their relationship is stressed. His mom is racist against her. And his parents basically ruined his birthday party that was going so well and blamed it on her. And they have issues between each other that need to be worked out as well. Don't judge other people by their "Red Carpet" moments, you are assuming way too much. The truth is, you could be as happy being single as being in a relationship. Difference is the good and bad times have different flavor.

 

- Make a change. If you don't like something about yourself, change it. I'm reminded of some of my fat friends that complain about being fat while sitting on the couch watching TV and stuffing their faces with potato chips. Life is not fair, some people are given an unfair advantage. If you want to be the best of the best, you better be born with the talent. But if you just want to be good enough to live a good life, anyone can reach that with some honest hard work.

 

Now, my contributions. Simply put, you need to hook up and experience the highs of relationships and have your heart stomped as soon as possible. It's something that happens to everyone, and it's better to have it happen sooner than later. Losing virginity will help you gain confidence because you won't feel like you have to hide that fact anymore. Sorry, but that's the truth, we live in a society, we follow the social trends. Unless you are a mover and shaker and can change the tide of culture, you are stuck as one of the players under someone else's system.

 

The fact is, don't worry too much. Once all this over you'll look back and laugh. I like to give real tips that people can use, as opposed to nebulous advice like "gain more confidence". But take it with a grain of salt because I'm sure you can already tell, I tend to be blunt, and reduce the whole "mystery of romance" into something inorganic; I remember my scars, and use them as guidance to reduce the amount of future scars I will receive. You have to find what works for you.

 

1) It takes a lot of work and effort, be prepared to spend it, carve out a piece of your schedule to dedicate to this

 

2) Starting a relationship and keeping one are two different things. Right now, you need to worry about starting one, so this is what it'll be about

 

3) Superficial things. Make sure you look good. Work out, get toned at least, if you can, be muscular. Wear nice clothes. Make sure everything is at least neat and clean, look in the mirror (or any reflective surface) often, make sure you don't have nose hair sticking out.. etc. Be fashionable if possible. Look at other guys in fancy malls, on TV, in magazines, watch what they wear. For example the big belt buckle thing is in right now, go buy one. Jeans that are tapered to be narrower down the legs, tucking your shirt in, wearing jean material pants + jacket or shirt -- bad stuff; DO NOT do those. Know these things. Girls can tell you.

 

4) Social things. Meet people. A lot of people. Men and women. Get invited to events, put yourself in uncomfortable social settings. I've been to parties where I know 1 friend, 3 aquaintences, 60 strangers. I didn't do well that night, but guess what? I tried. Even failures make you better. You HAVE TO be social. It's a skill that can be learned. I did. Even if you're quiet, but smile, be friendly, try to listen in on some other groups conversation, usually you'll meet some nice people that will try to include you. And that's without any active social skills on your part. Eventually as you get better, you'll be able to inject yourself into groups as opposed to waiting for some nice person to give you a hand. Also once you've made a lot of friends, you can ask them for advice, and ask them to set you up with their friends.

 

5) Interesting things. You have to be interesting yourself. Get some hobbies. If all you talk about is work, you are one boring person. Single person hobbies like guitar will make you interesting, a more well rounded person. Social hobbies will help you meet people, such as sports. Hobbies with lots of women (like social dancing) will help you meet women, and impress them as well. If you are good at math, to a girl that likes math, you've just earned points. So what do most women like? Dancing. You can't go wrong with being a good dancer.

 

6) Mental things. This is a BIG area. Probably controversial as well. Up to you if you agree with me. I suck at attracting women. This is my game plan, still working on it, but I'm getting more successes. Maybe I'm just more lucky now, don't know, but since it's working I'm sticking with it.

 

- Quantity: there is no "I see her across the room and fell in love with her". You do that, you're setting yourself for failure. You have to cast a wide net and see what you get back. That's why it's important to meet a lot of people and hit up on their friends. Put yourself out there. If you've hit up on 100 women, at least one of them will respond positively. Most likely you'll get a hit well before reaching #100. But if you don't even try you've already defeated yourself.

 

- Nice guy: Don't be a push over. If you give in to every will of the woman you're hitting on, she will lose interest. You'll get the "oh he's really nice but I feel no chemistry" comment. You can try to be a jerk if you want, supposedly that works, but I'm still experimenting with the threshold so I can't tell you. I came from a nice guy background so it's already tough for me as it is.

 

- Confidence: Fake it. Hooking up is about perception, not truth. Truth will become important later in the relationship, but if you don't even hook up first, you've got nothing. If you act like you're good enough for her, she'll think you're good enough for her. One easy way to get fake confidence... don't care. Show interest first, you have to let her know, otherwise there's nothing. But just don't care if you hook up or not. Women can detect these things, your don't care-ness will come out. And really you shouldn't care, because you should have the next 5 girls that you're going to hit up on lined up already. If she tells you no, shrug, part amicably, and go to #2 on your list. Another trick is to have aces up your sleeves. Being good at various hobbies also builds confidence. For example, don't show off too much at first; suddenly conversation turns to guitar, so you let them have a glimpse of your ace -- you talk about some funny guitar related experience -- oh you play guitar... cool. Then while standing around your car chatting, you open your car door, and your boxing glove falls out... oh you box... that's cool. If you have enough of these aces, situations will come when you'll shine. This is sort of the "silent confidence", even better than the showy cocky confidence. It also requires more work to build the aces up your sleeves, and patience to wait for things to happen. I'm not a cocky guy, so this works better for me. Plus when you don't have a lot of relationships, you have a lot of time to yourself, and you can really get good some something, provided you don't watch TV all day.

 

There are also a lot of other mental games, like sometimes you back off to get someone interested in you... etc. I'm weak in this area myself so I'm learning too.

 

Anyway. Use your anger and frustration to your advantage. Channel it into something productive.

 

Just my 2 cents, again, take it with a grain of salt. But I've pretty much just told you my game plan.

[orangele]

Strangely enough, I think there would be many people that might envy your position. Why? You are relatively young, you are not in jail, physically handicaped, obviously have a good mind on your shoulders, are NOT in a relationship that you find unsatisfactory.

 

I did not have my first GF until I was in my late 20's. I was physically small, not confident, and needed time to get my career in order. With time came career success, money, physical fitness, self-confidence, and it no longer became so difficult to find women.

 

Do the things the other posters suggest such as getting physically in shape, getting your career going the way that you are happy, dressing well, and keeping a positive mental attitude. All these things will benefit you irregardless if you find a GF next week or years down the line.

[monkey00]

dont wallow in your shortcomings - which is what you are doing now.

Stop wondering about your love life or even when you lose your virginity.

 

Some people break out of their shells at an early age and some do later on in life. it maybe be harder when you're older but it is very possible.

 

Anyway during h.s. i missed out on a lot of things such as you, particularly the dating scene. However in my college years i broke out of my shell and caught up with the past and i still am in the process of.

 

My point is it's never too late to catch up with what's missing from your life.

how much you change & grow all depends on how badly do you want change and how open-minded you are. Kind of like getting that 'dream' job, how many hoops are you going to jump through to get to where you want to be?

 

In short, stop wondering, stop wallowing in your self-pity. go out there and take some action, go to a bar, join a club, volunteer, and if you have super confidence cold approach..etc.

[Lights]

Hi all. Thanks for your time so far. I've read through your posts, and I still have questions.

 

To anyone else around who preferably is truly in the know, I still could use help. I am falling apart.

 

I find myself often getting caught up with what I call "Red carpet" moments of other people's life and think that's how they normally live day to day.

"Red Carpet" moments. Absolutely true

Regarding "red carpet" moments, I'll certainly believe that not everything's pretty about being in relationships. But having been held off from everyone wasn't the slightest bit fun at all. I don't believe life has to be a choice of a totally polarized duality in this regard.

 

I think you are doing the right thing in focusing and building your career. But at the same time, try to do some things you find fun in your spare time. Dont do it in the hopes of meeting potential mates, but go into it with the attitude of living life.

This is currently what I do. Living that way is quite good at what it provides, but hot romance and sex, whether within or outside a relationship, isn't included in that.

 

Learn to appreciate the life you currently have, and truely cherish and appreciate being single.

The truth is, you could be as happy being single as being in a relationship. Difference is the good and bad times have different flavor.

I couldn't agree more. Let's not, however, confuse "single" with "dateless and sexless". They are not one and the same, at least not in my idea of a quality single life.

 

3) Superficial things. Make sure you look good. Work out, get toned at least, if you can, be muscular.

I do spend a significant amount of time working out. It's an excellent thing to do and quite fun, and one of the worthiest things in my life. For those who seek to do such, I'd advise against expecting the opposite sex to care at all whether or not one works out; contrary to popular myth, they don't. I work out for my own purposes, on my own.

 

Wear nice clothes...Know these things. Girls can tell you.

I'm sure they could tell me, but I haven't access to any who will help me.

 

Get invited to events,

How specifically is this done?

 

usually you'll meet some nice people that will try to include you.

That's not how things work out here.

 

5) Interesting things. You have to be interesting yourself. Get some hobbies.

I have a few hobbies, but they aren't social. It doesn't appear to be likely for me to add any more avocational anything to my list, given my schedule these days, however.

If you've hit up on 100 women, at least one of them will respond positively. Most likely you'll get a hit well before reaching #100.

The last several years, it's not been nearly that high-percentage. But it's not like I don't do it anyways. I have no choice. If that hasn't been nasty enough, more recently it's become the case that even encountering 100 prospects takes quite a long time.

 

And really you shouldn't care, because you should have the next 5 girls that you're going to hit up on lined up already. If she tells you no, shrug, part amicably, and go to #2 on your list.

How does one have girls lined up already? Finding even one attractive unaccompanied woman at a reasonably convenient time in a place I might be in is difficult enough. Could you give me an example of how one would encounter multiple and have them lined up?

 

For an example of my situation: Not long ago, I saw an attractive woman in the gym. I went up to her and complimented her, and she said thanks and smiled and vanished. Later in the week, I was in a bookstore where two women possibly of interest were in the distance. I went up to close the distance, and they left, not noticing me. On the weekend, I went out (alone, since I have no local trustworthy friends with compatible schedules), and tried to chat with some women in bars and was totally ignored each time. (And most weeks I don't usually see as many single women of potential interest around.) How does this result in having five women lined up at any given time?

 

Strangely enough, I think there would be many people that might envy your position. Why?...you are not in jail,

Being someone who sees himself as having worked to stay on the high road, it's quite natural that I don't set my standards in life anywhere near that low.

 

Some people break out of their shells at an early age and some do later on in life. it maybe be harder when you're older but it is very possible.

Anyone can break out of a shell. Breaking out of a shell and subsequently being welcomed and having a wonderfully fun, empowering social life after said breaking out is one thing. Breaking out of a shell and being held off and left in the cold year after year is another. This isn't telling me anything.

 

In short, stop wondering, stop wallowing in your self-pity. go out there and take some action, go to a bar, join a club, volunteer, and if you have super confidence cold approach..etc.

 

Please do not waste my time. You have no evidence indicating that I do not already do this.

 

I request that no future poster waste my time or theirs in accusing or insinuating that I do not take any action against this. Rather, I'd like to know something actually intelligent about future actions, and new, highly advanced and effective things that I don't already know and do.

 

Life is all about trying new things, making mistakes and learning from them. There is a big wide world out there, see the big picture, do a bit of travelling if it helps gain some perspective. the little things will fall into place on their own =)

Definitely. I'm going to arrange some traveling sometime soon. There must be places that aren't so hostile and cold.

[fishtaco]

First of all, wasting your time? That comment makes me not want to post anymore. We're doing this for free, to help you. If people keep saying the same thing AFTER you've explained yourself, you may have a case there. But you haven't responded in between the various posts, and everyone think you are wallowing, I did. Now we know you're not, but you didn't need to throw out crap like don't waste your time. Be nice to people that are trying to help you.

 

You have some good points, like single vs dateless and sexless, so I won't respond to whatever I agree with you.

 

[snip - regarding working out] For those who seek to do such, I'd advise against expecting the opposite sex to care at all

 

I have had women grab my arms and be impressed. I have had women tell me they're surprised by how muscular I am, and my wet & only wearing a towel look - tarzan look as one put it - is a good look (long story - but the suprise came from the fact that I have a small frame so I just look normal with clothes on). They care. Except women want the entire package. If all you have is nice body, you lose. You need to combine this with others. That's why if you examine this by itself, it doesn't seem to help, but it's part of your presentation.

 

Regarding fashion advice from women:

You don't have any platonic female friends? Do you perhaps say go on a sunday brunch with a female friend from time to time? Some women love to shop. I have friends that would love to help me spend my money at the mall. Invite them, tell them you'll trade lunch for fashion advice. Take them to the mall and buy them food, then they take you shopping. You're a smart guy, do this enough times you'll pick up what's cool and what's not, then you'll be able to go off on your own.

 

Regarding getting invited to events:

Do you get invited to your friend's birthday parties? I was just at one this past Saturday. I didn't meet anyone new there, but one of my friends there was party hopping so I went with her to a second party afterwards, where I met a bunch of new people. It's a chain reaction, like nuclear fission. You can't just start grand. You have to start small. Then by chance it will link to something else, then that may link to even more stuff. I hit it off with one of her friends there pretty well (just as friends, not like we wanted to get naked, but that's fine, because maybe I'll get naked with one of her friends, who knows?), maybe I'll get invited to that new girls' events in the future.

 

Have you asked your friends to set you up? The party hopping friend and I have a mutual helping sort of relationship. I introduced a bunch of my guy friends to her, and she's trying to introduce me to her girlfriends. I invite her to my events, and she invites me to hers (just like my saturday), that effectively increases the number of people I meet.

 

Do social hobbies. I met a bunch of people playing hockey. I love hockey, but I keep meeting guys that want me on their team, so I had to give it up to something more conducive for meeting women, like salsa dancing. And I met a ton of them. Sure, most of them are married or older or just not suitable. But they're great as friends, and guess what? I get invited to their events, again basic one being birthday parties. If you know 20 people, half of them have birthday parties or outings this year, you are guaranteed 10 events, that's almost one every month. Even hockey wasn't bad, I got invited to drink beer after games, and I got to meet their friends and sometimes families. Although I quit, I still hang with my old hockey pals on a regular bassis (just not meeting any new hockey friends). My old goalie just invited me to go to oktoberfest last night, where I'll get to meet his new girlfriend, and probably a bunch of other people. A couple of months ago, I found out one of my hockey friend's friend, whom I never played hockey with, is also a salsa dancer. So I got his number, now we invite each other to salsa events that we go to... guess what... meeting more people, which equals more events.

 

I had 6 invitations this past saturday. I managed to make 4 of them. That's another thing. Never say no to an invitation. After you say no a few times you'll get uninvited to future events. Now you can't be 100%, but you should try as much as possible. It takes a lot of time and hard work, but that's what works. You will lose some, but if you keep making friends, you'll get new ones.

 

Regarding group conversation with strangers (and getting a helping hand from a nice stranger):

That's a low percentage of success, but it does happen from time to time. You have to present yourself as friendly. If you're standing on your own in the corner with your arms crossed looking tough, you'll stay there the whole night. The best way is to have your friends introduce you, and everyone stick around in the group and chat. The group conversation with strangers is a goal you need to hit. It's like practicing fancy spin kicks. You'll probably never use it in a fight (although for specific situations it could be helpful), but it'll make your basic kicks better. Resistance training. I don't know where you are, but people are generally the same everywhere. Some places might be more friendly, but it's never 0%. The best time for this "helping hand" thing to happen is 1) people are drunk 2) the people you are trying to engage in coversation with are also new, and don't know a lot of people at the party. It's tough to break into a group of life long friends throwing inside jokes at each other. But there are always newer people. You can spot them, they're standing around just like you.

 

Regarding Lined up girls:

I don't mean they are waiting to go out with you. I mean you plan on hitting up on them next, and they don't even know it yet. This comes with meeting a lot of people, you will meet ones you are attracted to. Make a list. I met a woman thursday last week, at a salsa event. Her dad was there (she's early 30's, salsa crowd has pretty wide age range) so I couldn't do much. But I made sure she wasn't wearing a ring, and I danced with her once, and tried to engage in coversation with her. Went okay. I'm not a master, everything I'm telling you I'm also trying to improve for me. But since I've reached the critical mass, it's easier for me to meet new people. I was able to get that far because she's part of my group that went, although that was the first time I've met her. Being part of the group (her dad's been part of the group longer), I'm expecting to meet her at our future salsa outings, so she is certainly on my list of targets. And this past friday I went on a date with a girl that I met two weeks ago, through my friend that I play guitar with. That didn't turn out well, but like I said, I've got future targets lined up, I don't care. And just because I was going on a date the very next day, it didn't stop me from "prepping" the woman I met at the salsa event thursday for future possibility. Quantity... very important.

 

Going hardcore like hitting up on women at the gym and the supermarket or whatever takes a lot of balls and has very low chance of success. Not that you shouldn't do it, but you shouldn't get discouraged if it doesn't work. Women by default are on guard. You have to go around the guard by meeting through mutual friends. But if you're man enough to break the guards then by all means go for it. I have gotten one date from a woman I met at a gym several months ago. But we were sharing the same personal trainer so we were bitching about how tough he is, so I had a lead in into it. She disappeared after the first date. But again, didn't care, because I already went on other dates and have other women to hit up on.

 

Anyway, I'm hoping using my real-life examples can help explain my strategy. Notice none of this is the hardcore walk up to a stranger and get a date. I don't have the balls to do that. You already won in that area because you've done something that I can't do. So get some lead-ins by making a ton of friends, don't be afriad to ask for help, and then go.

[Lights]

First of all, wasting your time? That comment makes me not want to post anymore. We're doing this for free, to help you. If people keep saying the same thing AFTER you've explained yourself, you may have a case there. But you haven't responded in between the various posts, and everyone think you are wallowing, I did. Now we know you're not, but you didn't need to throw out crap like don't waste your time. Be nice to people that are trying to help you.

Sorry, that wasn't aimed at you, and I suppose I shouldn't have gone off like that. I was just sick of being (in my opinion, falsely) accused of not taking any action about this (people I've asked advice from have done that a lot in the past), and monkey00's response set me off. Obviously I haven't exactly covered myself in glory here in responding like that, as you point out.

 

Regarding the rest of the stuff you mentioned, thank you for the extensive explanations of your experience; it does seem that I've been spending too much time trying it all single-handed. I haven't had the advantages of well-connected groups along the way or being able to trust people too much with something that's caused me so much pain, but I suppose there's only one way beyond that.

 

No offense was intended towards you, and apologies to anyone else in advance if I've turned them off of posting a (possibly helpful) reply.

[fishtaco]

Now that you've apologized, I doubt anyone would take offense.

 

Just remember it's a number game. Everything is about percentages. Self improvement will increase your percentage of success, growing social circle will expose you to more people and convert the percentages to actual numbers. Even if you were an ugly loser, after going through enough women you will eventually land one (whether you like her back or not would be a different issue), so I can't stress enough the importance of it. But you have to be patient, it takes a bit of time to grow to the point where you'll start seeing results.

 

And then after you hook up you'll be faced with the next type of problems -- psycho women. You think you have it bad now... heh...

[Lights]

If anyone else can offer help as well, please do: I am crumbling away...

[Jizzosh]

Wow, thank you man. Seriosuly. I don't know if you read my topic about getting a girlfriend, but I don't care. I'm gonna just go up and talk to her the next time I see her. As for you, I'm really sorry to hear that. That was my worst fear, and it's what made me the person I am today. A couple years ago I dealt with a bully issue and was really bad socially in freshman year. Now I'm rebounding, but I'm glad it's not too late for me.

 

As for you, dude it's never too late. Imagine yourself living alone at 80 years old never dealing once with a girl or knowing what it's like to have sex. How much pain would you be in? Wouldn't you be sitting there saying 'I shouldn't have cared, I should've just went out and did it'? Apply this to your current situation. Don't hold back dude, the worst that can happen is someone's gonna think you're an idiot. And if they do, they'll most likely keep it to themselves at the age you and your friends or the people you hang out with are at. You can still get a girl man. You just have to play for keeps. No one ever said you can't get a wife on your first try. The odds are stacked against you, but if you really feel something for someone you should be mature enough to know how to treat her. After that it's just sealing the deal.

[Lights]

Wow, thank you man. Seriosuly. I don't know if you read my topic about getting a girlfriend, but I don't care. I'm gonna just go up and talk to her the next time I see her. As for you, I'm really sorry to hear that. That was my worst fear, and it's what made me the person I am today. A couple years ago I dealt with a bully issue and was really bad socially in freshman year. Now I'm rebounding, but I'm glad it's not too late for me.

 

As for you, dude it's never too late. Imagine yourself living alone at 80 years old never dealing once with a girl or knowing what it's like to have sex. How much pain would you be in? Wouldn't you be sitting there saying 'I shouldn't have cared, I should've just went out and did it'? Apply this to your current situation. Don't hold back dude, the worst that can happen is someone's gonna think you're an idiot. And if they do, they'll most likely keep it to themselves at the age you and your friends or the people you hang out with are at. You can still get a girl man. You just have to play for keeps. No one ever said you can't get a wife on your first try. The odds are stacked against you, but if you really feel something for someone you should be mature enough to know how to treat her. After that it's just sealing the deal.

 

This is not about inaction, as I wrote to another poster here. I was rejected year after year after year despite my action, and it looks like that will continue because I have no choice in the matter; if I didn't try to meet people, I would end up floating through my days with no human contact outside of work; no one ever tries to even meet me or talk to me, let alone date me. I have no choice but to continue trying to meet people.

 

It's about not knowing how to manage it in my life when I'm in a stage when most others have already been there and done that. Suppose things finally become less brutal. If I decide to make up for lost time via serial-dating or sleeping around (given that most women won't even talk to me, I don't know how I will implement this; all of this is assuming I can even have any control over whether I actually have a date or other form of interested available woman), both of which are experiences I have wanted to have in the past, I will end up being I-don't-even-know-how-old when I have my first actual exclusive girlfriend relationship. Likewise for the opposite approach; if I go mainly for relationships, I may end up being too old to discover my wild side in a socially acceptable manner. And I'll have to somehow manage to fit all of this in when I need to get my career in shape and possibly get more education in and who knows what else; that's plenty of stress as it is.

 

And that's not even including handling the psychological matters of intimacy, virginity, sexuality, and the like; I have no idea what to do about any of them. Passion, love, and yes, relationship drama should it come up, are likely to be involved, and they are alien to me as it currently stands and I do not know how I would experience and handle them.

 

There are some who have said that through adolescence one learns the skills of being an adult. I hear that and often feel like crying since I have been actively denied the social aspects of my adolescence and of young adulthood, and I do not know how to make up for that and learn to grow in a healthy, happy manner in those areas while not socially being some kind of "arrested development" man still stuck in continuing or living a past that he never experienced in the first place. I fear I will forever be somehow lacking or twisted.

[Lights]

To any others who are reading this and knows what can be done: please help me! Please add your advice as well!

 

I am sorry that I am post-bumping this in such a fashion, but I really am falling apart!

[dgiirl]

Lights, fishtaco gave you some excellent advice. He even got ME motivated to get out and meet people

 

But from my own personal experience, when I get too caught up in my "life plan", things go really wrong really quickly. I had a picture of what my life was suppose to be at this age. I still find myself trying to get back to my "plan". And everytime I step a little closer to that plan, when I focus too much on that plan, I tend to get anxiety and mild desperation about things, and for one reason or another, get pushed further away from my goal. It is time like these where I have to refocus on the present day and take a break from everything.

 

You mentioned rejection year after year after year. You also do not have much of a social life. And you are even starting to snap at people who offer advice you dont agree with. It's understandable why you feel the way you do, but you need to step back, take a breath and put "dating" on hold for a few months. Like me, you are getting too caught up in the "urgency" of meeting your life plan that you're missing out on life. This gives off desperation and anger, and people stay away from it, and thus being pushed further away from your plan. You've also overanalyzed your situation to death and even came up with all this psychobabble about your predicament, which surely is damaging your self-confidence.

 

Dude, life is what it is. But I truely believe things happen for a reason, and when they repeat themselves, it's because we're not learning the lesson we're suppose to be learning. Perhaps you are meant to be single, dateless and sexless, and you are meant to learn to be happy while doing that? To have a successful fulfilling relationship, one needs to be happy and fulfilled with oneself. It's an important skill to have. And because you are not learning to be happy with oneself, you are repeating the same experience over and over again.

 

You are starting to get burned out. And like anything else we get burned out from, you need to take a break. Fishtaco gave you excellent advice on how to get out and meet new people. I think you need to start doing that, but also let go of all expectations. The expectations is what is keeping you from being happy. Just do things purely for the experience. Dont go in expecting to make new friends. Dont go in expecting to find a girlfriend. Dont try to make things "work" towards your life plan. Let it go for a few months, give yourself a rest, and start working again on personal growth and building back your self confidence.

[fishtaco]

This is not about inaction, as I wrote to another poster here. I was rejected year after year after year despite my action, and it looks like that will continue because I have no choice in the matter; if I didn't try to meet people, I would end up floating through my days with no human contact outside of work; no one ever tries to even meet me or talk to me, let alone date me. I have no choice but to continue trying to meet people.

 

Um.. of course, that goes for EVERYONE. If I didn't try to make friends, I wouldn't have any friends either.

 

Did you at least think about the advice I gave you? Have you picked out hobbies? Have you picked out which friend you'll ask for advice, and which friend you'll ask to set you up? Have you decided how many nights a week you'll spend working on this "plan"? It took me a year to build up my social circle, and I have a good number of friends to begin with. It's not going to happen over night, and you'll have many many rejections waiting for you. That's how it is. Either take the goods with the bads, or just become asexual and go play World of Warcraft (I have friends that chose that route, it's whatever makes you happy that's important).

 

With your continued "please help me post", you sound like you're looking for some quick fix. There is none.

 

Do you have difficultly making platonic friends with women? The only ones that I can think of that have that problem are the "creepy" guys. You're not one of those right?

[Lights]

You are starting to get burned out. And like anything else we get burned out from, you need to take a break. Fishtaco gave you excellent advice on how to get out and meet new people. I think you need to start doing that, but also let go of all expectations. The expectations is what is keeping you from being happy. Just do things purely for the experience. Dont go in expecting to make new friends. Dont go in expecting to find a girlfriend. Dont try to make things "work" towards your life plan. Let it go for a few months, give yourself a rest, and start working again on personal growth and building back your self confidence.

 

Absolutely. I am burning up a lot.

 

I do experience things for the experiences, but generally only if the experiences in question still can have value derived from them when performed alone and do not rely on other people (for example, the hobbies I've had, which were mostly not social, or the places I've went to alone.) What I do not understand, however, is why I would want to partake of experiences whose value derives primarily from social success and yet not hold any of the expectations you mention (for example, drinking in a bar; to merely experience the effects of alcohol use, one could easily toss down some booze at home, but the experience of being in a bar specifically becomes better or worse due to the nature of any social interaction or lack thereof one might encounter).

 

How would I build my self-confidence?

 

Um.. of course, that goes for EVERYONE.

Not necessarily quite in the manner in which I describe it. There are people in this world who have been approached with friendly intentions, who have had conversations struck up with them, who have been asked out on dates, or the like. I merely point that out in that this one-way-only deal in my life is forcing me to try to meet people no matter what unless I seek total social isolation.

 

Did you at least think about the advice I gave you? Have you picked out hobbies? Have you picked out which friend you'll ask for advice, and which friend you'll ask to set you up?

Yes. I have hobbies, as I pointed out, and I may have more once other parts of my life clear up. I haven't found anyone at all that I can trust in any such fashion who can help in any of those regards.

 

Have you decided how many nights a week you'll spend working on this "plan"?

That's decided by the rest of my life. It's a significant priority, but far from supreme.

 

It's not going to happen over night, and you'll have many many rejections waiting for you. That's how it is. Either take the goods with the bads, or just become asexual and go play World of Warcraft (I have friends that chose that route, it's whatever makes you happy that's important).

No doubt, but I want a MUCH higher goods-to-bads ratio. The many many rejections are sufferable if they are balanced by wonderful and hot good experiences. But they aren't and have never been.

I've gone on the "become asexual" route before. I spent that time in the gym or other places alone instead of playing Warcraft. It served its purpose, but it was a mistake looking back.

 

Do you have difficultly making platonic friends with women? The only ones that I can think of that have that problem are the "creepy" guys. You're not one of those right?

Yes I do find it difficult, because it's extremely difficult to find women who are friendly and with whom I have much of anything in common. I honestly don't know what "creepy" guys are like or whether I am one. It's been a long time since any guy has been able to creep me out, but then again I'm not a woman whom such a guy was trying to befriend.

 

 

Regarding quick fixes: True, it'd help if a shorter-term fix existed, but I'm falling apart anyways and I kept posting because I really could use all the input and help I can get. I am sorry if my repeated posting makes it look like I am ignoring your and the other's advice; I am not.

[fishtaco]

It's cool, just trying to get to the bottom of your problem. I'm going to make some assumptions because I don't understand your situation. If my assumptions are wrong just say so.

 

Regarding hobbies:

You know, if your hobbies aren't working out for you, then change them. As my earlier post stated, I gave up hockey because that yielded primarily male friends, and instead I took up salsa dancing. Plus there are "cool" hobbies too. Chess, stamp collecting, pen & paper D&D - not cool. Guitar, bartending, snowboarding - cool. You don't want to give up everything for the sake of hooking up (well, you could), but instead reach a good balance. Do something you like, do something women like, and do something social. Do your current hobbies fit these requirements? If not, have you picked out ones that do?

 

Regarding trusting people to help you:

Why is the trust needed? As long as they are not a-holes that are out to get you, it's good enough. I mean if you ask a female friend for fashion advice, there's no incentive for her to tell you something completely false just to make you look bad, unless she hates you or something. As for getting set up with their friends... so go on bad dates with women you are not attracted to. Big deal. If anything it's practice. If they're your friends, they should want to help.

 

Regarding good-to-bad ratio:

You can overcome low success percentage by sheer numbers. But to increase your success ratio you have to figure out why people don't like to talk to you. This is something that puzzles me. I was shy and quiet during my teenage years, yet still I managed to make friends. The only thing I can think of is if you have bad social skills. Say you piss people off when you talk to them. For example I met a kid that thinks he knows better about everything. Second sentence I spoke to him he was already vehemently disagreeing with me. I just walked away and never paid attention to him. After a couple of events he disappeared, because he doesn't know how to socialize, no one liked him. Another guy I know, in addition to looking like a rapist, he likes to be rude to people. Again he's the type that thinks he's smarter than everyone else. He gets magically invited to events, but no one likes him.

 

Regarding asexual:

I'm glad you found out the asexual route isn't for you. It's the worst when you finally wake up at 40 and find out you don't want the asexual route, which I believe is what some of my friends are heading towards. At least you're starting the transition now.

 

Platonic friends:

It shouldn't be that difficult. In addition to having average social skills and not pissing people off as described above, you don't need much "common interest". You are just friends. Maybe your requirements for being your friend is too strict? This past weekend I went shopping with a female friend. I have nothing in common with her... except she likes to shop and I need someone to go shopping with. I know her through my roommate. They're buddies. I hang out with her oh... once every two months? And in group settings usually. So it's not like we're stuck up each other's butts all the time. But she loves to shop. One phone call, she was at my place in 15 minutes and ready to shop.

 

Well, I guess there are quick fixes - one quick fix is to hang out at local crappy bars. If you spend enough time there, you will eventually meet some chick so drunk she'll sleep with anyone. That's not a victory in my books, since I'm trying to improve my game, getting the easy ones doesn't prove anything, but it may work as a quick fix for you. It's easier to go there with a buddy or two (you DO have male friends right? Please don't tell me you have trouble making friends with guys too). Sitting around by yourself and watching all the women for signs of drunken horny-ness is boring and creepy. Hang with friends and have fun, maybe go to a place with pool tables and shoot some pool. If a drunk chick shows up, try to get in her pants. But I wouldn't recommend it. Like I said it doesn't prove anything. It'll get you laid and possibly a trip to the doctor's office, that's about it. Quick fixes are just that. They don't do much otherwise.

[Lights]

Regarding hobbies:

You know, if your hobbies aren't working out for you, then change them. As my earlier post stated, I gave up hockey because that yielded primarily male friends, and instead I took up salsa dancing. Plus there are "cool" hobbies too. Chess, stamp collecting, pen & paper D&D - not cool. Guitar, bartending, snowboarding - cool. You don't want to give up everything for the sake of hooking up (well, you could), but instead reach a good balance. Do something you like, do something women like, and do something social. Do your current hobbies fit these requirements? If not, have you picked out ones that do?

Right now there's a pretty nasty swarm of other things that are taking priority over hobbies. I will deal with it in time.

 

However, I have made the mistake of doing things I was not interested in purely for the sake of a woman-heavier demographic before; it wasn't fun.

 

Regarding trusting people to help you:

Why is the trust needed? As long as they are not a-holes that are out to get you, it's good enough. I mean if you ask a female friend for fashion advice, there's no incentive for her to tell you something completely false just to make you look bad, unless she hates you or something.

Perhaps, if I can find a female who will offer such advice to me. Trust is needed in general to make sure that one doesn't get struck down for daring to directly show any vulnerability. (Try admitting to people you don't know extremely well that you hate your dating life or that you hate the local social scenes and experiences; it turns people off of one.)

 

As for getting set up with their friends... so go on bad dates with women you are not attracted to. Big deal. If anything it's practice. If they're your friends, they should want to help.

And it's extremely difficult for me to find people with whom I can be open enough about my dating life or brutal lack thereof to do that. See above regarding what I wrote about trust. There's a big difference between the incidental commonality of activity-buddy-hood or the borrowed rapport of a friend-of-a-...-of-a-friend versus the trust involved in a friendship.

 

 

Platonic friends:

It shouldn't be that difficult. In addition to having average social skills and not pissing people off as described above, you don't need much "common interest". You are just friends. Maybe your requirements for being your friend is too strict? This past weekend I went shopping with a female friend. I have nothing in common with her... except she likes to shop and I need someone to go shopping with. I know her through my roommate. They're buddies. I hang out with her oh... once every two months? And in group settings usually. So it's not like we're stuck up each other's butts all the time. But she loves to shop. One phone call, she was at my place in 15 minutes and ready to shop.

People must be different where you come from. Out here people with whom one has limited connection at best won't just offer up their time anything remotely like that.

 

It's easier to go there with a buddy or two (you DO have male friends right? Please don't tell me you have trouble making friends with guys too).

I have no buddies with compatible schedules in the local area at this time. If I "go out" in the conventional sense it's almost always alone because I do not have access to anyone who can and will go with me--at the very best case, not without some serious advance notice.

 

Another question: How does one get past the pain so far? It's messing me up pretty badly. It's not the only painful issue happening in my life right now and probably one of the less important ones, but it's hurting me a lot.

[fishtaco]

However, I have made the mistake of doing things I was not interested in purely for the sake of a woman-heavier demographic before; it wasn't fun.

 

Okay, fair enough. I guess I'm somewhat fortunate that I do find salsa dancing fun (although I did start it for the purpose of women). And I learned to play guitar & piano for myself, not for chicks. If your hobbies aren't great for meeting/impressing women, and you can't handle the lack of "fun factor" by switching, then I guess you've just been dealt a bad hand. You lose in this department.

 

And it's extremely difficult for me to find people with whom I can be open enough about my dating life or brutal lack thereof to do that.

 

You don't have to go, hey Jose, I'm a virgin and I can't get laid, can you help me? They don't need to know the details, they just need to know you are currently single and looking, and are willing to help. But of course this is a moot point if you don't have any friends that can help.

 

People must be different where you come from. Out here people with whom one has limited connection at best won't just offer up their time anything remotely like that.

 

Okay... You lose in this department too.

 

I have no buddies with compatible schedules in the local area at this time.

 

Wow, sounds like you live in an area where people are not friendly, you don't have any friends you can hang out with, you don't have anyone that can give you advice or set you up, nor are you capable of meeting people like that due to the unfriendly nature of where you live and your current priorities, and, as if that's not enough, switching hobbies to meet women is not an option either... Well, I'm not knowledgable enough to help you... good luck.

[Lights]

You don't have to go, hey Jose, I'm a virgin and I can't get laid, can you help me? They don't need to know the details, they just need to know you are currently single and looking, and are willing to help. But of course this is a moot point if you don't have any friends that can help.

 

Holy crap no, I would never do anything remotely like that--it was uncharacteristic of me even to release all this info about myself even on this message board to relatively anonymous faces who probably won't ever see me. I'll see if I can find someone whom I can ask (in the manner you describe about being single and looking) and mention nothing else of my situation. Although there isn't anyone I can trust who knows anything for advice though.

 

Wow, sounds like you live in an area where people are not friendly, you don't have any friends you can hang out with, you don't have anyone that can give you advice or set you up, nor are you capable of meeting people like that due to the unfriendly nature of where you live and your current priorities, and, as if that's not enough, switching hobbies to meet women is not an option either... Well, I'm not knowledgable enough to help you... good luck.

 

As I have said, I will deal with the hobbies issue in time. Just need to clear some other issues out first; I just can't do that right now is all. I'm not denying your advice.

 

Yes, people here and in the places I've been in are pretty damned cold. It's brutal.

 

I guess thanks for your time.