Only 72 Virgins?

[superconductor]

When that Mohammed dude dreamt up some of those lyrical things in the Koran, he apparently mentioned something about a martyr going to hang with Allah and 72 virgins.

 

But wait a sec... I figure I could probably do two good deflowering sessions per day, and need one day off a week to replenish my fluids. So that's 12 virgins a week. That's assuming, of course, that they're hot. They may be skanky old wheezers, though...

 

That only gives the martyr 6 weeks of virginal nookie! Six weeks worth, but meanwhile you're there for eternity.

 

I'm glad to be an infidel.

[Craig]

Well if you are born into a society that holds male babies more valuable than female and you have gender ratios of 116 - 150 men for every 100 women 72 virgins in paradise forever can start to look, ummmmmm, not so bad.

 

There must be a lot of young middle eastern men bursting with unused fluids that just know they ain't gonna get laid in this lifetime.

 

PS - Where specifically in the Qu'ran does it say that they get nookie in paradise? Maybe they just get to hang with the virgins.

[magichands]

Maybe they just get to hang with the virgins.

That would be poetic. Choked to death (they got off easy the first time) in front of all that temptation.

[Pink Amulet]

When that Mohammed dude dreamt up some of those lyrical things in the Koran, he apparently mentioned something about a martyr going to hang with Allah and 72 virgins.

 

But wait a sec... I figure I could probably do two good deflowering sessions per day, and need one day off a week to replenish my fluids. So that's 12 virgins a week. That's assuming, of course, that they're hot. They may be skanky old wheezers, though...

 

That only gives the martyr 6 weeks of virginal nookie! Six weeks worth, but meanwhile you're there for eternity.

 

I'm glad to be an infidel.

 

*falls of chair* :lmao:

 

How do you come up with this sh*t!!!!???? :lmao:

[stoopid_guy]

That only gives the martyr 6 weeks of virginal nookie! Six weeks worth, but meanwhile you're there for eternity.

 

I'm glad to be an infidel.

Well, it is "heaven," maybe the cherries grow back.

 

I spent a lot of time in the Middle East, talked to a lot of folks, and their obsession with virginity is a bit strange. The wife HAS to be a virgin. Also, they don't have Western inhibitions against insest, so it might be a sister, but HAS to be a virgin....

[Wax Lyrical]

PS - Where specifically in the Qu'ran does it say that they get nookie in paradise? Maybe they just get to hang with the virgins.

 

It's not in the Qu'ran. It's in a hadith. Hadith Al-Tirmidhi in the Book of Sunah (volume IV), chapters on The Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah, chapter 21, About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise:

 

The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]."

 

and...

 

Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34).

 

The biggest problem with Islam is that no Muslim is assured of heaven. It's all "Allah knows." So things like Jihad and piety help muslims along on their uncertain path to heaven. All muslims go to hell first and await the day of judgment to see if they can go to heaven unless you're a true martyr.

 

on hell: There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell).

This was an inevitable decree of your Lord.

Afterwards he may save some of the pious, God-fearing Muslims out of the burning fire.

-- Sura 19:71-72

 

On martyrdom: And if ye are slain, or die, in the way of Allah,

forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.

And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! it is unto Allah that ye are brought together.

-- Sura 3:157-158

[Adunaphel]

Maybe they just get to hang with the virgins.

 

This is hilarious. :lmao:

 

Well, it is "heaven," maybe the cherries grow back.

 

I think it is supposed to be that way.

(It looks like virginity growing back is a recurrent topic also in some old religions - you found that in greek mythology, too)

 

I remember my bf joking about how distressful it is to have sex with a virgin, and commenting that if your 72 women were to grow back their virginity every time you couldn't really get to have much fun with them.

 

A couple of years ago some guy did a study on that particular subject and after some words meaning analysis he pointed out that the word that is used to refer to virgins in the Coran (and is translated as"virgins") was commonly used to mean "white grapes" - so perhaps martyrs can actually get to taste 72 different kinds of white grapes (?!?).

 

The study sounded like bogus, but it was interesting to read.

[superconductor]

It's not in the Qu'ran. It's in a hadith.

Is that like a Cole's Notes version of the Qu'ran?

[Wax Lyrical]

Is that like a Cole's Notes version of the Qu'ran?

 

Sorta...

Kinda...

No. Not really.

 

Perhaps closer to the Catholic's catechism.

 

And that's saying something.

[sexy_T-Bear_ny83]

At first I pondered if i evan wanted to respond to this trash / slander of my faith but than i came to the realization that you dont understand or are just too ignorant. but either way i just wanted to say that "NO WHERE IN THE QUR'AN DOES IT SAY ANYONE WILL RECIVE 72 VIRGINS!" Also My faith is Based on the belief that "THERE IS NO GOD BUT GOD AND MUHAMMED{PEACE AND ALLAHS BLESSINGS BE UPON HIM} IS THE FINAL PROPHET OF GOD" We as muslims Believe in all the prophet's of god Mossus, Jesus, and so on. we respect and love them all.

 

All these Bad things you Here about my amazing faith are propaganda. Just like when we went through the cold war with the commies. This is just a tactic of WAR wich is fear.

 

My religion is the first religoin to respect wemon and give them right's. Before ISLAM people barried there baby girls alive so that they would not have to pay doweries. Islam stoped that. Gave wemon the right to inherit and own there own proprty. Gave them the right to Devorce

 

Also about "Jihad" The word means sruggle, it is uasually in refrence to the inner struggle in everyones hart. Also in contrext of War In the Qur'an, Allah{GOD} give man kind the permission to fight. and also lays down Allah's {god's} rules for fighting which are

 

1. you cannot kill wemon or children

2. cannot kill the old, sick or mentally ill

3. you cannot destroy any places of worship or kill any Priest's/rabbi/monks/religues people

4.cannot steal or rape

5.most respect property

 

On top of all tis we can only fight to defend our lives and fredom. We are not permitted to fight for territorial or matierial gain

How can one argue this? My faith is very positive and i would appriciate it if you people can keep any negative and unjust oppinions to yourselves.

 

it's bad enough we muslims have to be looked at funny everywhere we go. People don't trust us and fear us for no reason. everytime we watch the news we are the ones dieing, All i ask is that you read something before you state your oppinions and also it's all about oil and money and in the future it's all going to come to light. You'll see..

[Craig]

it's bad enough we muslims have to be looked at funny everywhere we go. People don't trust us and fear us for no reason. everytime we watch the news we are the ones dieing, All i ask is that you read something before you state your oppinions and also it's all about oil and money and in the future it's all going to come to light. You'll see..

So...why is it that muslims don't strongly condemn the violent actions of those who call themselves muslims and say they act on Islams behalf?

[bluechocolate]

People don't trust us and fear us for no reason. everytime we watch the news we are the ones dieing,

And many Muslims seem to be dying at the hands of other Muslims, so lets not just lay this all at the feet of west, ok?

 

Just for the record - I was against the invasion of Iraq & marched, with a million other people, in the streets of London to demonstrate that. Though that didn't seem to matter to 4 particular Muslims who blew themselves up on the Tube.

 

In this country (the UK) the moderate Muslim voice seems to be a rarity. Frightening that 23% of Muslims polled here said that the July 7th bombers were justified in their actions.

 

My faith is very positive and i would appriciate it if you people can keep any negative and unjust oppinions to yourselves.

You people? Freedom of speech & all that.

[stoopid_guy]

All these Bad things you Here about my amazing faith are propaganda. Just like when we went through the cold war with the commies. This is just a tactic of WAR wich is fear.

I don't know if this is any comfort, but you'll find folks here picking on Christianity too.

 

Yes, the West needs to be more conscious of your ways and beliefs, but the Muslim world most also be aware of ours. One thing is that we question and joke about EVERYTHING.

 

I've spent a lot of time in the Middle East and got a lot of curious stares there, especially outside of the major cities. Don't worry about it. Smile back, say "hello," and let them know you're just another person.

[sexy_T-Bear_ny83]

First of all i wold like to thank all of you who commented. there are very well thought questions. I just wantd to say all true muslims Condem "ALL ACT'S OF TERROR" But i do agree with you in that many prominent "ARAB"{ARABS Being only 15% of the islamic people} cleric's Dont say nearly enough. I totally agree. As for those scumbag's who did what they did on that train and for the rest of those terrorist's out there, there is an extra warm place in hell for all of them I agree with you there as we'll. In islam there is no tollorence for suicide or the killing of innocent's as i described in the rules for conducting war. These people are not real muslims and are totally misguied by some freaky deeky Arab extreamism and an intoxicated/perverted/ "CAN THESE *Asssholes* READ THE QUR'AN"{meaning the terroist's, Not you guys} interpretation of islam.

 

I'm a white Blond Hair blue eyed european muslim, and as a true muslim i love and respect al the prophet's of GOD{Jesus,Mossus, Muhammed...etc} Also im all for free speach but slandering Jesus or Mohammed is blastphemus to me and my faith. And jokes should only go so for in the matter's of faith. Thank you for the feedback and i would like to reiterat my regret that all this greed and missfortune that has cuased us all to view ourselves with hatred and misstrust. I know we'll overcome this. Oil just is'nt valuble enough..

 

P.S. Also statistic's can be very misleading don't allways believe them Whole hartedly.{being that im studing statistic's right now it's amazing how you can manipulate data t meet you own end's, but thats another disscusion for another forum mabe}

[quankanne]

These people are not real muslims and are totally misguied by some freaky deeky Arab extreamism and an intoxicated/perverted/ "CAN THESE *Asssholes* READ THE QUR'AN"{meaning the terroist's, Not you guys} interpretation of islam.

 

insert "Christianity" and "Bible," and the freaky-deakies are known as the Ku Klux Klan ...

 

every religion has its whacked-out extremists who claim you cannot truly love God/Allah/Jehovah unless you commit brutal acts against the very people He lovingly created ...

[Adunaphel]

Hello sexy_T-Bear_ny83,

 

please accept my apologies for joking about your religion - if this can mean anything I would joke about other religions, too, but I am sorry if I offended you - or your faith.

 

Thank you for posting, your posts were really informative - you taught me a valuable lesson.

 

Quank is right, you will find extremists in every religion.

[sexy_T-Bear_ny83]

Appology Accepted, I still love you!

 

I really enjoyed this convo we all had. I was worried about posting anything because i thought everyone would be against me, but you all proved me wrong. You guys are some cool people! and i'm glad i had the chance to clarify some thing's The Prophet Jesus, May peace and Allah's{God's} blessing be apon him Said to forgive and love all. And the Prophet Mohammed said {may peace and Allah's Blessings Be apon him} Never held a grudge agianst any enemies and respected all who are open minded and loved God

[Flyin in Clouds]

Well I see my long post of the real history of Islam got deleted.

 

Don't be fooled though, Islam is not a religion of peace. All around the world Mulsims are killing their non-Muslim neighbors. Might it just be something wrong with the religion?

 

And Jihad means struggle which is why Mein Kampf (My Stuggle) is published in Arabic with the title Jihad. And just would the struggle be? I'll leave that to the read to figure out...

 

For the lat 1400 years Islam has been attempting to conquer the world, and if people don't wake up all the women will be wearing burkas.

[sexy_T-Bear_ny83]

To be totaly honest with you, I wanted to keep politic's out of this and Im gonna let this be my last post. But you forced me to state my oppinion on your comment.

 

First of all, All this extreamism is do to many Bad forign policies by the west toward's The muslim world. But since Islam is violent and is trying to take over the world as you say{Zionist}. Why is it that when Islam took over spain{for sevan houndred Houndred year's might i add} They never forced anyone to convert, Why is it that while the west was going through the dark ages, Muslim Spain Became the Center of the world in science and medicine.

 

Why is it that before the Ottomans took Over all of the Balkans and lower central europe, My people the Albanians,The Serb's ,Croat's and Bosnians continued to kill and slaughter eachother for centuries due to the fact that Albanians & Croat's were Roman Catholic, And the Serbs were Orthadacks Cristian's. The blood shed was unending, Untill the Ottomans took over. Also If muslims are so militant why is it that the Greek's, Serb's,Croat's,Romanian's,slovinian's,Bulgarian's ect..ect.. were not forced to convert to Islam {evan though they were under Ottoman Control for over 700 year's?

 

What's the answer for that? Why is it that only my people The Albanians,and the Bosnians Converted Willing to Islam? Also Why is it that Spain after the "reconquista" forced everyone to choose from convertion,Expulsion and death? Why is that?

 

Also Why is it that why Jew's were Expelled from spain and france and all part's of europe, The allway's found refuge in the muslim world were they were allways respected and appriciated for there skill's. Why is this?

 

Also why is it that muslim's in palistine welcomed the Jew's after the hollicost? While in the mean time Britain and the U.S. were fully arming the Jew's to Destroy and take over the Palistinian's that welcomed them?

 

Yea there is terrorism, But there are many Contributing Factor's to the Creation of terror.

 

1. the creation of Isreal by the west {punishing the Palistinian's for what the German's did in WW2}

 

2 Britian and france's Spread of Bogus nationalism By Creating False state's like iraq, iran,Sadi Arabia,Yemen,ect... In Islam there is no nationality all people are one and the same. Once your muslim your muslim No longer Black, White, German or Chinese. When Islam Was blessed upon man, It was about everyone in the world belonging togather Being one.

 

3. The Creation and support of all these tyranical Dictator's in the middle east too many to name but I'll name a few { The Shaa'a of Iran or baned People from practicing there Faith and eventually radicalized the people Wich lead to the Islamic revolution and Modern day Iran wich is very anti Progressive and anti western,}

 

4. The west's involvment in the Instigation, and supplyment of the different faction's in the lebenease cival war's

 

5. the creation of Saddam Husien another one we must thank the west for

 

6. the proxy War Between Iraq{supported by U.S.} and Iran {supported by Russia} Spreading the rift between shia and sunni

 

7. The continued support for Israili Agression agianst all odd's unconditionally { I know you'll say terror an all that but, honestly 60 year's of advanced millitary strike's against anybody in the region at will will lead to act's of desperation by the young and the Hopless.}

 

8. British seperation of india in two part's which lead to the creation of pakistan/india and also lead to a nuclear arm's race.

 

9 Last but not least, Let's not forget about Afganistan! We {the U.S.} used the Afganise to fight our Red Russian enemies in a war that lasted ten year's and claimed more than 2 million live's! on top of the fact that the Mujahadeen in Afganistan Defeated them for us, And what did we do for them? Did we help stabilize there contry no! we let them kill eachother for another ten year's, Which lead to What? The rise of the Taliban and Osama Bin ladan { did I meantion we trained & founded him!}

 

Doesn't this all seem kinda counter productive for the West? All these crazies representing Islam, All this lack of stabillity in the Region all this "terror" actually it's good for Buisness! keep's the price's high. Do you think they want stability in the muslim world? You think they want the muslim world to unite and be in peace? do you think they want them to progress in science and economically? They'd rather Have Terrorist's running around

aimlessly. unable to put up any kind of real resistance, While making there own people look bad in the world so the can justify using there cluster bomb's, Abram's tank's, Five hundred pound bomb's And did i mention M.O.A.B.{Mother Of All Bomb's}

 

All these wepon so they can do thin's like "Decapitation strike's,"spread freedom", "Promote Democracy" Yea more like Keep thing's unstable so that the can keep price's down, expliot the region and ofcurse Protect Israil!

[maoserr]

Hmm, I respect people who are deeply religious. But I found that those who truly have faith in their religion are those who are not offended easily.

 

I'm not a religious man myself, but I do think if you are secure enough in your beliefs, you shouldn't feel the need to defend yourself everytime someone attacks your beliefs.

[Flyin in Clouds]

T....First of all, All this extreamism is do to many Bad forign policies by the west toward's The muslim world.

 

I would have hoped you might like to debate the issues... but only if we are each free to express our opinions fully. That said:

 

It is just an excuse to say Muslim violence is the West's fault. It isn't. It is something rotten within Islam itself. One only needs to look at all the bloodshed around the world to know that. Pakistani Muslims have hated and killed how many Indian Hindus? Sudanese Muslims killing Christian Muslims. Australian tourists killed in Bali - by Muslims. Everywhere around the Muslim world Muslims are killing their non-Muslim and Muslim neighbors. Islam is the most intolerant religion around. And why would I think that? Because that's what I see on the news daily. And it has nothing to do with foreign policy, unless you mean a foreign policy that says "no, we won't don't want to join your Islamic nation". I mean why do shiite Muslims kill sunni Muslims? It really makes one wonder, "just what is it that makes so many Muslims so violent. Is there something in their water?"?

 

The Pope makes a speech about violence having no part in a real religion and what do Muslims do? Riot and issue death threats because of course Islam is all about peace. How dare anyone say otherwise. Muslims say, "If you don't agree that Islam is peaceful I will kill you". The irony is lost on Muslims.

 

And to say that Islam doesn't gain territory by the sword is to ignore history. Muslims fought to conquer all of France, and were stopped, thankfully in the 700s and retreated to Spain. Muslims were not indiginous to Spain. Muslims have continually used force to expand "the nation of Islam." Constantinople - Ottoman Turks conquered the city and desecrated one of the holiest Christian churches - Hagia Sophia. I'd like it back as a Christian church and all the Arabic graffiti removed. What would Muslims do if we conquered Saudi Arabia and converted the Grand Mosque in Mecca into a Christian church? But of course we can't even bring a Bible into Saudi Arabia. So much for tolerance and freedom of religion. And yet we allow Mosques to be built here and in Rome?

 

What is going on is a clash of civilizations - of ideas. Islam can not tolerate the modern Western world - the enlightenment world. The first enlightenment was in greece some 2500 years ago - that reason could be used to understand the world. That it isn't all just supernatural and beyond our understanding. Our Western values, which say I am free to insult Islam all I want, is totally in conflict with Islamic values that tolerate no such descent or opinions. An opera in Berlin is canceled because Muslims object, because it has a decapitated head of Muhammad on stage. So we kow tow to Muslims. Just one more tactic Muslims use to subjugate others. I don't care how offended Muslims are by that play. I have a right to see it.

 

But since Islam is violent and is trying to take over the world as you say{Zionist}. Why is it that when Islam took over spain{for sevan houndred Houndred year's might i add} They never forced anyone to convert, Why is it that while the west was going through the dark ages, Muslim Spain Became the Center of the world in science and medicine.

So I'm a Zionist? I'm not jewish, but I do support Israel against Muslim aggression.

 

No they (Moors that took over Spain) just forced non-Muslims to be second class citizens and pay taxes Muslims didn't have to pay. Maybe you could explain dhimmitude. But of course that isn't really forcing anyone to convert is it? and the reason Muslims were the center of science and medicine is because they discovered and kept alive the old greek tradition of reason... Somewhere along the line Muslim lost it. (see Bernard Lewis' books. )

 

Why is it that before the Ottomans took Over all of the Balkans and lower central europe, My people the Albanians,The Serb's ,Croat's and Bosnians continued to kill and slaughter eachother for centuries due to the fact that Albanians & Croat's were Roman Catholic, And the Serbs were Orthadacks Cristian's. The blood shed was unending, Untill the Ottomans took over.

So now you admit that Islam was spread by the sword? The Ottoman's conquered the old Byzantine empire. After attacking it for centuries.

 

Maybe because the Byzantines were too busy trying to keep the Muslim from coming in the front door they didn't have the time to take care of their own backyard. And no, the Muslims didn't end the conflict, the conflict goes on today in the Balkans. And frankly if Christians were or are killing each other it's none of your (Muslim's) business. Just as the on going conflict between Muslim sects, shiite versus sunni, is none of mine. Frankly, it's fine with me if you Muslims killed each other to the last man. Then maybe the rest of us can live in peace.

 

One can argue the reason that the West (i.e. Christendom) has surged past Islamic society is that we gave up fighting each over religion a couple hundred years ago. We don't care if anyone insults our religion, be we Lutherans, Methodists or Catholics.

 

Also If muslims are so militant why is it that the Greek's, Serb's,Croat's,Romanian's,slovinian's,Bulgarian's ect..ect.. were not forced to convert to Islam {evan though they were under Ottoman Control for over 700 year's?

First get your history straight. Constantinople fell in 1453. Do the math...

 

Why is it that Christianity is nearly extinct in all the former Christian lands around the old Roman world? Turkey, Syria, Egypt, North Africa, and the Balkins - all were Christian prior to Muhammad showing up. Christianity hardly exists in the places that St. Paul wrote as early Christian churches as in the books of the Bible.

 

Oh, and one other thing. Muslims don't tolerate insults of Muhammad. Well it is just as offensive to many Christians that Muslims refuse to acknowledge the truth about the Son of God. We just don't go around rioting and killing people because you Muslims insult Jesus. How offensive to say Jesus was only a prophet and not the Son of God. "God does not beget, God is not begotten".

 

What's the answer for that? Why is it that only my people The Albanians,and the Bosnians Converted Willing to Islam?

Nothing willing about it at all. They converted because life was easier that way. Would they have converted at all if they were not under the Ottoman thumb?

 

Also Why is it that Spain after the "reconquista" forced everyone to choose from convertion,Expulsion and death? Why is that?

Let's ask what business the Moors had in conquering Christian Spain to begin with? Or what gave the Ottoman's the right to attack the Byzantines? Islamic might makes right? It was imperialism pure and simple. Expanding the Islamic empire ("nation") by force.

 

And if the Spanish were so happy with their Muslim rulers why did they fight so hard to get rid of them? Might it have been because Christians were not treated all that well by their Muslim overlords?

 

Also Why is it that why Jew's were Expelled from spain and france and all part's of europe, The allway's found refuge in the muslim world were they were allways respected and appriciated for there skill's. Why is this?

Because people always needed a scape goat for their problems. Which is why Muslims today hate jews. Rather than look at the problems they cause for themselves Muslims blame everyone else.

 

Also why is it that muslim's in palistine welcomed the Jew's after the hollicost? While in the mean time Britain and the U.S. were fully arming the Jew's to Destroy and take over the Palistinian's that welcomed them?

Welcomed them? No, Zionists BOUGHT the land from Palestinians. It wasn't the jews who attacked their Arab neighbors. It was MUSLIMs that decide to go to war and fight Israel and lose every time.

 

Yea there is terrorism, But there are many Contributing Factor's to the Creation of terror.

Yeah, it's called Islam and the Koran. In My Opinion. OK?

 

And why is it when the US of A (majority Christian) bombs Serbia (Christians) to stop Serbs from killing Muslims the USA is the bad guy? Huh? What is with you ungrateful jerks? And we liberate 20 million Muslims in Iraq from a horrible dictator that killed more Muslims than anyone else and we are the bad guys? We tolerate Muslims worshiping here, but we can't build a church or a mission in Saudi Arabia? Would all you Muslims kindly go live in Saudi Arabia. Please? You'll like being closer to the black stone thing won't you?

 

1. the creation of Isreal by the west {punishing the Palistinian's for what the German's did in WW2}

First Israel was created by the UN, not the West. Try getting your facts straight.

 

The Arab Palestinians living in Israel at the time of the creation of Israel were granted full Israeli citizenship, but when some of them left to join the Arabs attacking the Israeli forces Israel declined to take them back. Why? because they were and are traitors. The Palestinians choose the side they wanted to be on and now they are paying the consequences.

 

2 Britian and france's Spread of Bogus nationalism By Creating False state's like iraq, iran,Sadi Arabia,Yemen,ect... In Islam there is no nationality all people are one and the same. Once your muslim your muslim No longer Black, White, German or Chinese. When Islam Was blessed upon man, It was about everyone in the world belonging togather Being one.

Those "areas" we only parts of the Ottoman Empire, which again was on the loosing side in WW I. When you pick the losing side, well.. what does someone expect? The Ottoman Empire, the old sick man of Europe, was broken up because it was falling apart.

 

What ever you want to believe. But Islam is no blessing to mankind. Your beliefs are not mine and your beliefs are false as far as I am concerned. And Muslim American's that believe as you do, that they aren't American, I ask them to please leave my country and go live some place else.

 

And if Muslims are all "one" why do Muslims keep killing each other? Perhaps some Muslims don't think other Muslims are quiet Muslim enough, eh?

 

3. The Creation and support of all these tyranical Dictator's in the middle east too many to name but I'll name a few { The Shaa'a of Iran or baned People from practicing there Faith and eventually radicalized the people Wich lead to the Islamic revolution and Modern day Iran wich is very anti Progressive and anti western,}

So let's get this straight. Muslims in Iran were worse off under the the evil "progressive" Shaw was than under a nut case like Ayatollah Khamenei?

 

4. The west's involvment in the Instigation, and supplyment of the different faction's in the lebenease cival war's

Oh, you mean were Muslims again attacked Christians and Jews... uh, huh... those peace loving Muslims were just defending themselves... that's why they blew up a Marine barracks.

 

5. the creation of Saddam Husien another one we must thank the west for

Sorry, we didn't create him. We used him, which ultimately turned out to be a big mistake, but we didn't create him.

 

6. the proxy War Between Iraq{supported by U.S.} and Iran {supported by Russia} Spreading the rift between shia and sunni

Nope sorry, not buying it. Yes we and the Soviets (not russians) were allied on different sides, part of the old cold war. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that. ... but we did not create the conflict between sunni and shiite.

 

7. The continued support for Israili Agression agianst all odd's unconditionally { I know you'll say terror an all that but, honestly 60 year's of advanced millitary strike's against anybody in the region at will will lead to act's of desperation by the young and the Hopless.}

There is no Israeli aggression. They defend themselves from continual attack by Muslims. See the truth is that if there were no suicide bombers blowing up pizza parlors full of teenagers and blowing up busses full of old people in Israel there would be no action by Israel against the Palestinians. Likewise against Lebanon. Don't attack Israel and you can have peace. Continue with this insane policy of attacking Israel in order to wipe it off the map and the bloodshed will go on. And very frankly the Muslims haven't been hit nearly hard enough. Israel needs to do to the Palestinians what we did to Germany and Japan in WW II. Then maybe they'll decide living in peace is better than total annihilation.

 

8. British seperation of india in two part's which lead to the creation of pakistan/india and also lead to a nuclear arm's race.

The British did that because Muslims refused to live in peace with their Hindu neighbors. It was split in an attempt to give each side a county so they could live in peace without all the sectarian violence. And why are there Muslims in India to begin with? Couldn't be because they tried to conquer the place could it?

 

9 Last but not least, Let's not forget about Afganistan! We {the U.S.} used the Afganise to fight our Red Russian enemies in a war that lasted ten year's and claimed more than 2 million live's! on top of the fact that the Mujahadeen in Afganistan Defeated them for us, And what did we do for them? Did we help stabilize there contry no! we let them kill eachother for another ten year's, Which lead to What? The rise of the Taliban and Osama Bin ladan { did I meantion we trained & founded him!}

Yeah we should have just killed them all when we were done using them to fight the Russians. So let's see. We help people fight off foreign invaders (which also happen to be our enemy so it's in our interest to help the Afghanis). And why would it be our responsibility to fight the Afganis internal battles? Shouldn't we let those MUSLIMS work it out as they saw fit? Some thanks we get for helping them get rid of the Russians. In hind sight may we would have been better off letting the Russians have the place, and forcing Pakistan to defend themselves against the Russians.

 

See we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. No matter what we did Muslims would be unhappy and blame us for their own failures.

 

Doesn't this all seem kinda counter productive for the West? All these crazies representing Islam, All this lack of stabillity in the Region all this "terror" actually it's good for Buisness! keep's the price's high. Do you think they want stability in the muslim world?

Well actually we do want stability in the Muslim world, which is why we (or more precisely our state department) mistakenly thought supporting brutal dictators, like the Saudi royal family, the Shaw or Saddam would lead to stability. I think the U.S. State Department is the worst enemy the citizens of the United States has. But that's another topic.

 

Most Americans don't want to police the world or fight wars overseas. We are mostly isolationists. We'd love a world that was stable and at peace so we could TRADE with everyone. We'd love it if the Muslim world went about it's business worshiping your God in peace. But only so long as you grant everyone else the right to worship their God as they see fit and the right to be critical of your religion and your prophet. But when an author has to live in hiding because of death threats (Rushdie - Satanic Verses) for merely writing a book, fiction no less, well excuse us for thinking maybe, just maybe, there's something really wrong with Islam itself.

 

 

You think they want the muslim world to unite and be in peace? do you think they want them to progress in science and economically? They'd rather Have Terrorist's running around

aimlessly. unable to put up any kind of real resistance, While making there own people look bad in the world so the can justify using there cluster bomb's, Abram's tank's, Five hundred pound bomb's And did i mention M.O.A.B.{Mother Of All Bomb's}

See the Muslim world's failure isn't Muslims' fault, it's everyone else that has done it to you... Bull... It is your religion that holds you back. When you throw away the talents of half your population - females, there is no way you can compete with the West.

 

And let's hope you don't have to see the real mother of all bombs because I'll tell you - you ain't seen nothing yet.

 

All these wepon so they can do thin's like "Decapitation strike's,"spread freedom", "Promote Democracy" Yea more like Keep thing's unstable so that the can keep price's down, expliot the region and ofcurse Protect Israil!

Unstable to keep prices down? Yeah, I guess that's why oil is so cheap and gas hit $3.25 a gallon. Yeah...

 

And why would Israel need protection? hmmmmmmmmm....??? After all Muslims are so peaceful.

 

And you know I'd love it if we didn't need foreign oil. Then we (in the USA) could tell the rest of world to shove it.

 

But don't give me this socialist crap about exploiting a region's resources. We PAY, as in money, as in trade, for the oil we buy and that lets people in the middle east buy stuff from us. All to often it's weapons Muslims buy - to use to kill their neighbors. I wish we didn't have to buy oil then the Saudis would be dirt poor and could go back to being camel jockeys.

[sexy_T-Bear_ny83]

As i wasted about five minutes reading this, It appeared clear to me how worthless debating with you truly was. {ohh and it was'nt the facted that More than half your writing were my own quot's Lame!} Nothing i can say to you makes any difference. In all honesty it does'nt matter. Anybody who read's our statement's is free to believe as they will. If you feel that Islam is evil, hey more power to you! I could give a sh** less. If you think we should all kill ourselves, all i can say is thankyou! thank you for showing me how ignorant you are, Thank you for showing everyone who read's what you muster'd up {half of it being my own Quot's no less, also being it took you almost 2 day's to respond lol!} What a Biget you are. Also I really dont need to respond to you anymore being that I at least spoke to a few kind harted people.

 

All i have to say is that one day the truth will come out. We'll all see. But untill than I hope you get to experiance first hand the realities of what you preach. Inhsallah{if god will's it} And I hope he does for you...

[Guest]

Sudanese muslim's killing cristian muslim's? I didn't Know there were Cristian Muslims?

 

That's what you see on the New's Everyday? Who control's the media?

 

The Pope also Quoted a medevel script in which he said the Prphet Mohammed brought nothing but the sword! That right there is offencive anyway you slice it.

 

Hagia Sophia Does'nt exist's! But hey go over there and try to remove the "grafitty" your self! I'd love to see that.

 

You were so offended that He called Jesus a prophet and Not the "son of GOD" and you defend a play in wich his head {Jesus's}is cut off and placed in a basket next to Mohammed's? You make no sense at all.

 

Bernard Lewis is a terrable auther! Just read his review's LOL! anybody worth a dam in history dissagrees with him he is factless {like you!!}

 

T-Bear did'nt say the did'nt Ottomans spread by the sword, He said that the created Peace in the Balkan's {What were you Reading??}

 

"Cristian's killing other Cristian's in the balkans is none of your Muslim Buisness" I think if you actually read a Whole Book in your life or mabe possesed half a brian you would have realized that he was also refering to Serb Genocide of 250,000 Bosnian Muslim Civilain's in the middle of Europe in 1995! {What strange Vat of Drug's and Alchahol were you spaned from?}

 

Also spread by the Sword you say? It was cristians who started and lost the Crusade's. {might i add that you guy's slaughterd the entire city}So you guy's basically invented Holy war. Also Cristian's you say did'nt spead by the sword?? All I have to say to you is Latin America and Africa...

 

"We Don't go around rioting when muslim's insult Jesus"? I never herd muslim's insult a Prophet of God. Ohh that's right you Guy's were too Busy insulting Your own "SON OF GOD" to Realize.

 

Life Was easier so they converted to Islam? So why dont they Convert Back? I know for a fact life would be one thousand times Easier for them if they did so especialy being in the middle of Europe? {if the Ottamn's did't conquer them they would have never been exposed to Islam Only herd about it from people like you Uneduated people}

 

What Gave the "moor's" the right to Conquer Spain?

you could also ask?

 

What gave the crusader's the right to conquer Jeruslem?

What gave spain the right to conquer Lating america, The British to colonize America?,Britain to conquer India, and my favorit The U.S. to Conquer Iraq and so on and so forth the list can name every contry in the world almost? what's your Piont? Everyone can conquer but if Islam does it "It's evil" and who gave them the right? Lol your halarius

 

Also the U.S. Bombed serbia to prevent Genocide! Albanian's are greatful!!

That's why there one of the few remaining member's of the Coallision in Iraq... In Mosul no less!!

 

Ungratefull that's why Albania is the Only Country in which not a single Jew was killed. At least 20 thousand were saved! Not to Mention that Albania was in the Axis and never hurt a Jew Rather Saved many!

 

Also 2 of the suicide bomber's who attacked the Marine base in lebonon were Cristian!

 

Also He{t-bear} Did'nt say the Sha'a was worse than Khmmene! he said that the Sha'a was the reason for Khmmene {what were you reading}

 

I think Isreil Ran out of thing's to Bomb when it comes to the palistinian's {Also there to Busy maintaining the 60 year concentration camp theve put the Palistinians in

 

It's funny how the British divided India, 40 percent of the muslim's were still in india, Anyway I mean if it were one Idia might have been a Muslim Country. {get the Idea Divid and conquer!}

 

With Korea {a real threat} now having Nukes! Let's hope no one see's this "real Mother of all Bomb's" you were talking about when you said That muslim's havent seen the rea mother of all bombs. {Nukes arent so speacial anymore China,korea,pakistan,India,Iran,Isreal,france,britain,and a bunch of other countries we don't know got them!} And Being that the sanction's we impose on them keep there people starving, I dont think they'll{nukes} be Expensive eaither.....

[alphamale]

who cares about this religious baloney...

[Flyin in Clouds]

As i wasted about five minutes reading this, It appeared clear to me how worthless debating with you truly was. {ohh and it was'nt the facted that More than half your writing were my own quot's Lame!}

 

I quoted so everyone would have the context for the comments.

 

Nothing i can say to you makes any difference. In all honesty it does'nt matter. Anybody who read's our statement's is free to believe as they will. If you feel that Islam is evil, hey more power to you!

Why thank you for allowing me my opinion... damn nice of you.

 

I could give a sh** less. If you think we should all kill ourselves, all i can say is thankyou!

You're welcome.

 

let me see if I can put this way. If a group of people move into a house across the street from mine and say there's 20 people living there. Now 3 of them have high powered rifles and start shooting holes in my house. So far they haven't killed anybody, but sooner or later they're bound to kill someone. What do I do? Call the police? No, the police won't do anything because they'll say "We have to take this matter up with the security council. And besides we didn't see anyone shooting and we don't have anyone we can send over there right now..." In other words I'm on my own to defend my family from a bunch of crazies that are trying to kill us.

 

There are 17 "innocent" people in that house. Of course they are doing nothing to stop the guys withe guns. Now what do I do to defend myself and my family?

 

What I do is burn down that house with all 20 people in it because I'm not going to bother trying to seperate the good guys from the bad guys. 17 "innocent" people die? Yes. Too bad.

 

 

thank you for showing me how ignorant you are,

Now see there you go reacting on emotion instead of fact...

 

Thank you for showing everyone who read's what you muster'd up {half of it being my own Quot's no less, also being it took you almost 2 day's to respond lol!}

Responding to you isn't the most important thing in the world, and I got other stuff to do than debate the evils wraught upon the world because of Islam.

What a Biget you are.

Uh, that's spelled Bigot... Unless your British...

 

Also I really dont need to respond to you anymore being that I at least spoke to a few kind harted people.

Hearted.. hearted people. yes, many in the West are fooled by Muslim propoganda and deception. It is a grave concern because unless we wake up and realize the real enemy isn't just Islamic fascists, but Islam itself we can't defend ourselves.

 

All i have to say is that one day the truth will come out. We'll all see. But untill than I hope you get to experiance first hand the realities of what you preach. Inhsallah{if god will's it} And I hope he does for you...

See that's one big problem with Islam (and a huge difference with Christianity). Everything no matter how evil is God's will. "God's will" can be used to justify anything - no matter how evil because in Islam God controls people. People are just his puppets. He pulls the strings. It's his will. Blow up a pizza parlor full of kids - God's will.

 

In Christianity God gave people free will. We, not God, choose to do good or evil. God would prefer we choose good, but he won't make us. He could make us but God chooses not to interfere in our free will. Thus the evil in the world is strictly man's doing. Not God's will.

 

But Allah's will allows Muslim to blow up a pizza parlor of Israeli teenagers. Nice guy that Allah.