The Ups and Downs

[Alone1234]

I'm not laughing at you, I know exactly how you feel though, and it reminded me of several conversations I've had....where the guy asks me what it is that he does wrong, and I can't for the life of me explain it. Because I guess, you shouldn't have to. People who love you should know that it's not ok to make you feel bad, or vent their frustrations on you.

 

I know that back and forth. It's like you get to the point where you don't even trust yourself.

 

Yeah speaking of such things I'll post on here later tonight our converstation of heated discussion (putting that nicely) that happend only a few days ago and it even envolves his mom calling me today about it. He hasn't come home yet so he doesn't know his mom called. Yeah and for the record, I don't like her one bit. This should give you an ideal as to what hes like.

[Alone1234]

Since I'm hearing that everyone's situation is different, I've give you a look as to how he is. But just to let you know these might

not be the exact same words that was used but I will try my best to write it, well most of it.

Anyhow every year my husband and his friends go up north to his parents vacation spot for

about 3-4 days. Well that trip is coming up pretty soon and my husband wants me to go with him. The reason for this that this year some

of his friends wives/girlfriends are going also along and so are my husbands parents. Just to let you know his parents vacation

house is big enough so it can fit a number of people in it in case your wondering. Well I can't go because I'm working and he wasn't thrilled

when I told him. So here it is: (These names that I use are NOT are real names).

 

It was Wednesday afternoon and he just came home:

Him: Andrea?

Me: Joe I'm up here (so he comes up and was in the bedroom with me in the other room)

Me: Hey, how was your day?

Him: Alright.

Me: Good. I have something to tell you.

Him: Well that doesn't sound good.

Me: No it's not. I can't go next weekend bec... (cuts me off)

Him: Why?

Me: Because I have to work and I can't get out of it.

Him: You've known about this trip for how long? Why don't you want to go? Why do you hate going up there?

Me: I didn't say that.

Him: You didn't have to. You do this everytime something important comes up.

Me: Do what?

Him: Make excuses so you don't have to do anything other then stay here and sit on your a**. Thats all your good for around here.

Me: No I don't. There is no one to fill in for my classes so I have to go. I can't just... (cuts me off)

Him: Call in sick then?

Me: I can't.

Him: They won't know the difference.

Me: I ... (cut off again)

Him: I can't? You just don't want to go admit it. Why do you always say that you can't?

Me: I wasn't going to say that.

Him: Yes you were.

Me: Whatever

Him: Don't whatever me. Damn it! This trip has been planned for over a couple of months now and you've have enought time to get out of

work and instead you wait until the last minute like always. This is just like you and you never stop. I don't know how you can stand working there if thats what you call it. Its not like your actually doing anything there.

Me: Yes I do.

Him: O yeah like what? What is it that you think your doing. Trust me if you weren't there next weekend they wouldn't even notice.

(couple seconds later)

Him: I'm waiting.

Me: You know what just never mind. You just don't get it. (I didn't know what to say)

(As I 'm going down stairs he says while hes still in the bedroom talking about God knows what.)

Him: Well theres something you can do. Run away like always.

Why don't you try geting a real job like.... (didn't hear the rest)

Well thats pretty much what was said.

 

Well earlier today his mother called and mentioned the trip:

Her: Hey Andrea is Joe there?

Me: No hes not home yet? (And she knows it) Did you try his cell?

Her: Yeah. No answer.

Me: I can have him call you later.

Her: No no. Thats ok. I'll just call him back later. ( O please don't.)

Her: So your not going next weekend?

Me: No I'm working. Joe told you?

Her: Yeah he mentioned it to me the other day.

Her: And you can't get out of it. (She wasn't asking a question)

Me: No.

Her: Well everyone is looking forward to it and it should be fun...(she rambled on about something but I tuned her out)

Me: I'm sure it will be.

Her: But you can't get out of it right?

Me: No I can't. Sorry to cut you off but I have to get going?

Her: Well ok. Just tell him that I called. Talk to you later.

Me: Ok I will. Bye. (I just hung up. I couldn't take it anymore)

 

There is just something about that women that rubes me the wrong way. Well he came home in a good mood for some reason.

I told him that his mother called and he said that he knew because she called him on his cell.

I didn't tell him what she said because I didn't want to start something. So anyhow I thought I would post this while he was outside messing

with his car.

[Alone1234]

This probably sounds nuts but I'm just going to say this.

 

Its been bugging me for a while now when someone said that he let me go and think. Do you honestly think that he does that because I pretty much do think for myself.

[amaysngrace]

This probably sounds nuts but I'm just going to say this.

 

Its been bugging me for a while now when someone said that he let me go and think. Do you honestly think that he does that because I pretty much do think for myself.

 

 

I think that was me. I meant that he let you go have a day to yourself, no hassles. Because he senses your mindset.

 

Is that what you meant? I'm not sure I understand...

[Alone1234]

Yeah I think it was you but I understand what your saying so never mind about that.

 

I actually did talk to him about this before he left for work this morning and I told him that I was unhappy in our marriage and that how I don't like the way that he is treating me. He really didn't know what to say. He told me that he didn't know that he was treating me bad and that he was sorry that I was unhappy but wanted to know why I didn't say anything until now. I then told him that I was scared and he just couldn't understand why. He said that he though that we could share anything but I told him that he makes me feel like I can't. He then asked what it was I thought he was doing that I didn't like so I told him. Once again he didn't know what to say. I don't know if I stuned him or what but I felt like I was talking to the wall. He didn't really get mad or anything because he was in the middle of getting ready but he was acting like this was all news to him. So at least I said something and I will just have to wait and see how it plays out. If he didn't know as he is claiming, maybe this was a wake up call or something. I don't know but I am trying.

[Guest]

I just got done reading this whole thing and you may not want to read this but i'm going to say it anyways:

 

He's is so far up into your mind and you don't even know the half of it. You can't even see that he controls you and you do exactlty want he wants. Trust us when we say that he KNOWS what hes doing and is very good at it.

[PWSX3]

I just throw this out and see what everyone thinks.

 

Maybe you can set him down at the table and just tell him since he doesn't really understand what you are talking about that you would like to give him a few examples to help him understand what is bothering you. You have to say it in a nice way that he won't get affensive and don't raise your voice, just talk in a nice sweat voice so he will hear what you are saying.

one good one would be the TV, just ask him why he takes the clicker away from you? Just like blind_otter said; ask him he does it at his friends house or his parents house? If he says no then explain that you are no different then they are and that he should respect that you were watching something and he could either watch it with you if the reason he came into the room was to be with you, or he could go watch TV in the other room.

One of my samples in me and my W was before she moved out she took me to the bathroom and showed me a towel and said; if I had ever folded it like that you would have gotten mad. I think it was Recordproducer told me if I had said anything about how the cloths were done that I was more the welcome to do them myself. Sure you might not have that problem but you see what I'm trying to get at. Show him examples so he can "HEAR" what they are and then if he doesn't try and change, AUDIO OS AMIGO. (sorry don't know spanish spelling)

 

Now these are thoughts coming from a person that is like your hubby and I know being like him you don't want to raise your voice nor do you want to start just telling him what he is doing wrong. I really think examples would be the best way to appoach him so "MAYBE" he will start getting the idea.

Make sure and tell him you love him and that you do want to have a good marriage for the both of you and at this time you are unhappy.

 

O.K. Now you can tell me how full of ca-ca I am but I think it might work I don't know. I think it's worth a try.... GOOD LUCK!!!

[amaysngrace]

You need to stop making excuses for this guy. He is fully aware of how he is (mis)treating you and basically just doesn't care.

 

You can wait to see how this plays out, if you wish, but I'd bet anything that nothing's going to change. Except maybe he'll have even more animosity towards you, since you've pointed out his flaws to him. He already probably doesn't like himself very much, which is why he takes it out on you in the first place...his own disliking.

 

You need to realize it's not you. You've done nothing wrong here. He would most likely treat another woman the very same way he's treating you. Abusers are damaged goods. You didn't damage him, he was damaged WAAAY before you two ever met. His issues have nothing at all to do with you. You owe him nothing.

 

Please go speak to a counselor at the women's center. Many have free services. Please do this for yourself.

[Alone1234]

I just throw this out and see what everyone thinks.

 

Maybe you can set him down at the table and just tell him since he doesn't really understand what you are talking about that you would like to give him a few examples to help him understand what is bothering you. You have to say it in a nice way that he won't get affensive and don't raise your voice, just talk in a nice sweat voice so he will hear what you are saying.

one good one would be the TV, just ask him why he takes the clicker away from you? Just like blind_otter said; ask him he does it at his friends house or his parents house? If he says no then explain that you are no different then they are and that he should respect that you were watching something and he could either watch it with you if the reason he came into the room was to be with you, or he could go watch TV in the other room.

One of my samples in me and my W was before she moved out she took me to the bathroom and showed me a towel and said; if I had ever folded it like that you would have gotten mad. I think it was Recordproducer told me if I had said anything about how the cloths were done that I was more the welcome to do them myself. Sure you might not have that problem but you see what I'm trying to get at. Show him examples so he can "HEAR" what they are and then if he doesn't try and change, AUDIO OS AMIGO. (sorry don't know spanish spelling)

 

Now these are thoughts coming from a person that is like your hubby and I know being like him you don't want to raise your voice nor do you want to start just telling him what he is doing wrong. I really think examples would be the best way to appoach him so "MAYBE" he will start getting the idea.

Make sure and tell him you love him and that you do want to have a good marriage for the both of you and at this time you are unhappy.

 

O.K. Now you can tell me how full of ca-ca I am but I think it might work I don't know. I think it's worth a try.... GOOD LUCK!!!

 

No I'm going to tell you how full of it you are. At least you are seeing the errors of your behavior and trying to prevent it from happening. To answer your question about being alone. When i was living by myself for the first time, I did become selfish because I was able for the first time to have things my way. It was like freedom taking to a higher level and i was loving it. I think a lot of it was I didn't have to live by my parents rules, I could live by my own and I didn't have any. It was awesome and I was loving being single for the moment. Then when I moved in with my husband I couldn't put everything where I wanted it. We both had to come to an agreement on some things like I'm sure you are your wife did also. I don't know if thats helpful but I have found that with most people as well.

[Alone1234]

Well he came home last night (much later then he normally does) and we did talk about some things. He said that he didn't know that I was unhappy and he wished that I would have said something to him earlier instead of waiting until now. I told him that I should have said something earlier and I explained to him again why I didn't. He then went into telling me that he doesn't like us yelling all the time and I agreed. I asked him if anything was bothering him and he just basically said no it was just little things here and there like work for example. I told him that I wasn't his sounding post and when he walks in the door, his work doesn't come in. I told him that I don't mind talking about things related to it but I don't want him to take his moods out on me. He said that he was sorry and that he didn't mean to do it and that he just has a lot of bad habits that are hard to break. He asked me again what I didn't like him doing and I told him only a couple of them. I didn't want to just sit there and bash him and he then said that he would work on those. He then said that I need to work on things myself and that he wasn't the only one who has bad habits. I then asked him what he thought were mine and he said that I'm always negative about certain things that he's tired of hearing about it, going places for no reason just to waste gas in the car, waiting until the last minute to do things, etc... I told him that I could try and work on that but I didn't think that I was negative all the time nor do I go places just for the heck of it. He also went into saying that he wants me around all the time because he likes spending time with me which i can understand bcause he is working all the time and only gets to see me in the evenings and the weekends (if i'm not working). So anyhow I will just have to wait and see what happends. He did sound like he was sorry and such and was willing to work on things so thats where I am at right now.

[Ripples]

Have you considered going for counselling yourself?

[Alone1234]

Have you considered going for counselling yourself?

 

For what? What do you think that I need counseling for myself. If anyone is would be him that needs it, not me. I'm not the one with the deep issues here.

[Ripples]

Please don't feel defensive. I, personally, think that counselling can be an excellent way to discover effective coping/dealing with techniques. I wasn't assuming nor was I inferring that you have psychological problems.

 

Although, having said that, often people engage in unhealthy relationships when they, themselves, have underlying problems...

[Alone1234]

Please don't feel defensive. I, personally, think that counselling can be an excellent way to discover effective coping/dealing with techniques. I wasn't assuming nor was I inferring that you have psychological problems.

 

Although, having said that, often people engage in unhealthy relationships when they, themselves, have underlying problems...

 

Sorry about that. After I posted that I thought to myself that was going to come off wrong. I did yesterday while I was at the bookstore find a book called "The Verbally Abusive Relationship: How to Recognize it and How to Respond" and I was just skimming thru it and I did find a chapter on how to deal with people that like. It was pretty helpful but some of the stuff that it was talking about I just couldn't agree on nor do I see happening right now. I did find a list of things that the abusers usually does and there was some examples between couples and most of those examples I think personally were just the extreme cases. The reason that I say that is that a lot of those examples were just the victim asking a question and then the abuser would turn around automatically and just snap at him/her. My husband doesn't even do that. He usually if hes in a bad mood, just looks for crap to get mad at and never seems to let go of it. Here i'll give you an example that I find rather funny that he did once. I got out of the shower and after I got dressed and left he came in the bathroom to take one also. We'll he was in there for about 20 secs and then came out and asked why I closed the shower curtin and hung up one of the towels. He said that I knew he was going to take one. That was so stupid that I couldn't help but laugh.

 

Anyhow I see what your saying but I didn't know that I was in an unhealthly relationship until a couple of years ago. Granted I should have seen it coming but I guess I was just to blind and it probably didn't help the fact that I was so young when I met him. The thing that gets me is that I never would have dated him or anything if I wouldn't have gotten in his car (I wanted to test drive it). Then I probably wouldn't be on here writing and I probably wouldn't be where I am today.

[Alone1234]

Wow I can't believe how many hits this thread has had in the last couple of days. I must be entertaining. Anyhow I'm still going to post because I feel that its good to get things off my chest. Well today has been pretty bad for me (not my husband). I was searching about this whole mental abuse thing and I read some horrible things about abusers and how they like to use manipulation and other things also. Well that did it for me. I just broke down because I started questioning myself about everything that we had been thru. The thing that hurts me the most is that the guy married me. I read somewhere that said that abusers don't love their "victims" and that just hurt to think that he was like that. I just can't think of anything worse than someone tricking someone else into thinking that they love them just for the heck of it. Its just plain cruel. That is the worst feeling in the world to know that everything that was said to me might have been a lie and I was just to stupid to believe it. I feel like I was worn and then hung out to dry and forgotten. I just don't know what to think anymore. I can't even look at him without wondering what is going on in his head. I can't help but wonder if I'm just reading to much into it or what. Ever since I started talking about our situation I just feel so confused and lost. Before I started talking about it I just figured it was normal and that it was just something that I had to get used to. Now I can't help but feel so angry inside at myself and I know that I shouldn't but I do. I feel like just calling couple of people up and just telling them whats going on but I think that if I said anything somehow it would get back to my husband because they would then be curious and start asking questions. You have no idea how frustrating this really is.

[amaysngrace]

You have no idea how frustrating this really is.

 

Yeah I do. It's a reality check. And it's actually a step in the right direction for your own healing.

 

You really should keep in mind that it's not you...it's him. He'd have most likely treated any other woman in the same manner.

 

You deserve peace in your life...we all do. If he is keeping you from attaining it, you should let him go.

 

You only have one life...you should strive to make it a happy one!

[Ripples]

Alone123, I'd caution against reading too much material around the matter. It's way too easy to see similarities where, although they may exist, may not be an accurate portrayal of the position your husband is in. You know how it goes, you start reading about symptoms for brain tumours and you start thinking "Hey, that happens to me, I must have a brain tumour!"

 

I really feel you need independant, objective input into this situation. Counselling or therapy of some kind, preferably together, but if that's not an option, then on your own may help you determine what's really going on.

[blind_otter]

Those self-help bookskind of bug me, becausethey dehumanize the "abuser" -- in reality, the abuser is just like any other person who is suffering. Trapped in a prison of their own making by their own delusional thoughts and subconscious issues that control them. IMO, abusers seek to control others because they feel so out of control with themselves. Or in their own lives.

 

I am ALWAYS hesitant to attribute malicious intent to anyone. I've worked with men who committed horrific crimes, when I interned at a mental hospital in college. It changed the way I looked at people who commit crimes because I saw their pain. It was so great, that it blinded them -- and many lacked the emotional coping skills to approach the world from any place other than one of defensiveness, control, and aggressive.

 

you see it with animals, too. Some of them, when they are hurt, become passive and quiet. Others becomes vicious and attacking anything that comes near them.

 

Cultivating compassion doesn't mean you roll over and accept bad treatment, though.

 

I have been to therapy a lot, mainly because I had clear traumas in my past that have made leading a relatively normal life very, very difficult for me. Along the way, though, I learned that I have my own maladaptive coping strategies, and very flawed thought patterns related to relationships and power struggles.

 

When you try to addess issues on your own that are as deep, and far reaching and interconnected as being in an abusive marriage, you can sometimes "out think" yourself. Your mind plays tricks on you. You operate from a flawed, fractures perspective, and that can make thinking clearly and separating your own illogical thoughts from factual reality VERY difficult.

 

But if you know exactly what you need help seeing clearly -- IE your relationship, it's foundational issues, and the obstacles that have grown from those issues --- a therapist can help by being an objective, outside person who helps you sort your thoughts out, make something clear and cohesive out of it, and resolve the things preventing you from addressing your personal obstacles.

 

It's like having an extra, less cluttered brain to bounce ideas off of, who is not directly invovled with the situation, and who has specific training to help you sort out your thoughts.

 

It's something to consider. Not to fix the situation, that is NOT what therapy does. THerapy doesn't FIX anything. It just sort of clears out the mental clutter so that you can make an informed choice.

[Alone1234]

Yeah I do. It's a reality check. And it's actually a step in the right direction for your own healing.

 

You really should keep in mind that it's not you...it's him. He'd have most likely treated any other woman in the same manner.

 

You deserve peace in your life...we all do. If he is keeping you from attaining it, you should let him go.

 

You only have one life...you should strive to make it a happy one!

 

Since I've made him aware that I know whats going on hopefully he will make the changes that he said he would. If not what is it that I could expect to happen since he knows I know? The reason that I ask this is that if he doesn't care, the I guess I don't know him at all.

[Alone1234]

Alone123, I'd caution against reading too much material around the matter. It's way too easy to see similarities where, although they may exist, may not be an accurate portrayal of the position your husband is in. You know how it goes, you start reading about symptoms for brain tumours and you start thinking "Hey, that happens to me, I must have a brain tumour!"

 

I really feel you need independant, objective input into this situation. Counselling or therapy of some kind, preferably together, but if that's not an option, then on your own may help you determine what's really going on.

 

Your probably right but right now I can't go to any therapy or counseling without him knowing about it. I don't even know what he's think if I told him that I wanted to go. Granteed WE both need to go. Him more than me though. I am trying to figure out whats going on but its hard doing it on my own. There is just so much information that is out there and then at the same time I'm trying to compare it to my realtionship and such.

[Alone1234]

Those self-help bookskind of bug me, becausethey dehumanize the "abuser" -- in reality, the abuser is just like any other person who is suffering. Trapped in a prison of their own making by their own delusional thoughts and subconscious issues that control them. IMO, abusers seek to control others because they feel so out of control with themselves. Or in their own lives.

 

The only thing that I don't get with self help books is how do you know that your actaully helping yourself. I can't but just sit here while typing this and just think "how did I get myself into this.?" Most of the things that I'm finding is how to get out of the relationship and characteristics of the abusers. I understand how to get out of it, but what I don't understand is how I got into it. There is no where that expains how people get into it because from what I have read and heard others say, the abuse doesn't usually happen until sometime down the road. And clearly no one this happend until about a year into our marriage. I don't know if he was waiting for the right time or what.

[blind_otter]

No, I don't think he married you with the intention of abusing you at some later point. Like I said, I don't think people tend to pre-meditate this kind of behavior. Some do, but I doubt this is normally the case.

 

IMO, people get into abusive relationships because there is an unhealthy relationship pattern set in their minds. Perhaps learned from parent child relationships, or from observing parent-parent relationships (the most powerful role model in a child's life is the same sex parent). Perhaps from some bad experiences with men later in life.

 

It's your past that sets up the dominos, but you do have control over how they fall.

[PWSX3]

No, I don't think he married you with the intention of abusing you at some later point. Like I said, I don't think people tend to pre-meditate this kind of behavior. Some do, but I doubt this is normally the case.

 

IMO, people get into abusive relationships because there is an unhealthy relationship pattern set in their minds. Perhaps learned from parent child relationships, or from observing parent-parent relationships (the most powerful role model in a child's life is the same sex parent). Perhaps from some bad experiences with men later in life.

This is what I am trying to find out as well and there isn't much out there on it either. I am looking forward to seeing my counsoler in hopes she will help me understand it all.

I have read low self asteem has alot to do with it and I also read that a man/guy can get it from his mom. Now this goes back to how much can you believe because even some of the good books I have read are a little different in what they say.

I know my mom worries about everything and that is part of what I do when the W isn't home when I think she should be I just start thinking of the bad things.

[Alone1234]

Well I have heard that peoples past does shape their future. I haven't really thought about mine. I never was close to my mother and my father and I had a much better relationship. Since I'm the oldest my brother was seen as the baby and spoiled like you wouldn't believe and still is. I guess the reason my mother and I didn't get along is that he likes to control people and she wasn't and still isn't able to do that to me. Maybe that has something to do with it I don't know. I guess I would have to also speak to a professional to see what they have to say about it.

 

Well my husband is leaving for the weekend for that trip tomorrow that has been planned so it will be nice to not have him around. Gives me a chance to figure things out and to finally get to do what I want for a change. I did have a chance to get out of working but for some reason I just wanted to stay behind. He's not thrilled about it and did mention it to me again but he'll get over it. If not then hes going to have a horrible weekend because I don't plan on answering my cell a lot this weekend. It's like I get my own vacation lol! :cool: Maybe while he's gone it will give him a chance to think things thru also and stuff like that. Who knows.

[Alone1234]

This is what I am trying to find out as well and there isn't much out there on it either. I am looking forward to seeing my counsoler in hopes she will help me understand it all.

I have read low self asteem has alot to do with it and I also read that a man/guy can get it from his mom. Now this goes back to how much can you believe because even some of the good books I have read are a little different in what they say.

I know my mom worries about everything and that is part of what I do when the W isn't home when I think she should be I just start thinking of the bad things.

 

I really do hope that things work out for you two and I am glad that you are trying to change. If you don't mind me asking you this, how is your son handleing all of this? I mean does he know why you separated for the time being? I was just wondering.