Contract or Covenant?

[hotgurl]

so if you husband was beating the crap out of you and your children than you can't leave the marriage?

[Touche]

but wouldn't that make it a contract. If infidelity is a dealbreaker than it's a contract not a convenant or am I missing something?

 

See that's what I first thought too but now, according to Moose's clarification on all this, and yes according to the Bible, it looks like I look upon my marriage as a COVENANT and not as a contract.

[Great Gazoo]

So let me ask....when thing get tough in your marriage, do you look for your out, or do you keep the covenant mind set and stick it through, thick and thin?

 

When you're in a contract situation it's an, "if....then", mentality.....so, when your, "if's", aren't met from your partner, do you bail, or do you continue?

 

When things get tough I stick to it thick or thin. I would not bail, she would never give me any reason to.

Just to say I would never get married again so my covenant would never be broken, thats the way I look at it so maybe it gives me that little extra to work anything out, I don't know. As far as the state my marriage is a piece of paper so would be a divorce.

[Touche]

so if you husband was beating the crap out of you and your children than you can't leave the marriage?

 

Oh yes, GOOD point. I would leave if there was physical and/or verbal abuse.

 

So I'm confused again! What does the Bible say about that? And yes, mental illness is a an absolute deal-breaker for me too...been there/done that.

 

So I'm back to square one on not knowing what my marriage is!

 

But the fact of the matter is that none of these things ARE an issue in my marriage so I guess it's still a covenant. If one of those issues, God forbid, ever DID pop up, then it might turn into a contract that can be broken.

 

Ok, my head hurts now.

[SmoochieFace]

Let's take a poll.

 

How many here believe that Marriage should be based on a Contract, or a Convenant?

 

Contract:

 

1. Based on what you want out of a Marriage

2. Based on a, "If.....Then" mentality

3. Is usually based on a specific time frame

4. Carries penalities for non compliance

 

Convenant:

 

1. Based on how the other person benefits

2. Is Unconditional

3. Is Permanent

 

 

Neither. I do not believe in marriage.

 

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I really had to pick one or the other. I would definitely say 'contract'.

 

Your criteria under 'covenant' is unrealistic. Example: I suppose those who are in the 'covenant' camp believe that battered spouses should just 'tough it out', huh? Even if their lives are in mortal danger, right?

 

Unrealistic and WRONG.

[Moose]

so if you husband was beating the crap out of you and your children than you can't leave the marriage?

You could leave the marriage based on society's take on the subject.

 

However, in a marriage covenant, this isn't a reason to leave.

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't leave, I'm just saying it shouldn't be the reason.

 

The reason to leave would be that you've tried everything in your power to get help, or to help your spouse, and everything you've done has failed.

[hotgurl]

me too touche.

 

For me there are certain things that are immediate deal breakers.

 

abuse

abusing my children

infidelity

murdering someone

sexually abusing someone

being a criminal

 

now I would never marry anyone who did these things but a lot of murders and absusers are very clever about hiding that side of them from family.

 

other things that migth make me walk but not immediatly would be.

 

treating me like crap

gambeling problems

addiction problems

being bad with money. ie buying toys before paying bills

not providing for the family.

 

also things I would look to weed out before marriage. But if an addiction developed during the course of marriage than I would work with my spouse to get help for a long time. And if they refused help and continued to be destuctive towards themselves than I would leave.

 

So I guess a contract. But I am not religious and a covenant seems to be religious to me. because I don't see the difference in the dictonary def. so i am assuming it's a bible thing.

[Moose]

So I guess a contract. But I am not religious and a covenant seems to be religious to me. because I don't see the difference in the dictonary def. so i am assuming it's a bible thing.

I beg to differ. You demonstrate some real covenant characteritics.

 

You've already said that you wouldn't marry someone with the first set of characteristics.

 

By your willingness to stay in the marriage to help HIM with HIS addictions is clearly the right thing to do in a covenant marriage. Alot of people would just bail.....

[hotgurl]

I don't know if this answers your covenant or contract question.

 

but I asked my aunt one day (whoe has been married for a long time) what is thier secret. She said well besides a few deal breakers. You just work through everything else.

 

That's how I feel. If your married that's it and you work through your problems and yes there are deal breakers but hopefully you weed the people wh are pron to thoose out before getting married.

[superconductor]

Infidelity is the only offense that Christ allows us to dissolve a marriage covenant.

OK, so the characteristics of a covenant aren't exactly as first stated then.

Convenant:

 

1. Based on how the other person benefits

2. Is Unconditional

3. Is Permanent

So there is at least one deal-breaker, according to biblical teachings.

 

And, because there is a dealbreaker, then a covenant is breakable, therefore by definition it's a contract.

[Moose]

OK, so the characteristics of a covenant aren't exactly as first stated then.

 

So there is at least one deal-breaker, according to biblical teachings.

 

And, because there is a dealbreaker, then a covenant is breakable, therefore by definition it's a contract.

Not necessarily. One person, (the offender), would still be held under that covenant, (AND STILL CONSIDERED MARRIED), so it wouldn't be a total deal breaker.

[Moose]

Did someone hear a smoochie bunny?? I thought I did, but I try to ignore those pesky fuzz butts....

[Touche]

OK, so the characteristics of a covenant aren't exactly as first stated then.

 

So there is at least one deal-breaker, according to biblical teachings.

 

And, because there is a dealbreaker, then a covenant is breakable, therefore by definition it's a contract.

 

Yes, well said. I think that's what I was getting at too, hence my confusion here.

[superconductor]

Found this on a different web site:

[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Tahoma]The Bible gives only two reasons in which divorce is permitted: the first is in the case of abandonment of a Christian by an unbelieving spouse (1 Corinthians 7:15), and the second is if one partner is involved in a lifestyle of infidelity (Matthew 5:32).

As well, there's this:

[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Tahoma]

God despises the mistreatment of wives by their husbands (Colossians 3:19, 1 Peter 3:7, Ephesians 5:25-33).

[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

[Touche]

Did someone hear a smoochie bunny?? I thought I did, but I try to ignore those pesky fuzz butts....

 

:lmao: I wouldn't know as I ignore bunnies. You obviously didn't "try" hard enough if you think you saw one! (Hint: Use the "ignore" feature.)

[superconductor]

*grumbles about inability to remove nasty code*

 

Sorry, everyone... I didn't get the edit in time... bah...

[Touche]

Found this on a different web site:

 

As well, there's this:

[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

 

Interesting...so only abuse and infidelity are acceptable reasons for breaking the covenant of marriage then. Of course you could make a case that someone's alcoholism, for example, is abusive to the spouse.

[superconductor]

Interesting...so only abuse and infidelity are acceptable reasons for breaking the covenant of marriage then. Of course you could make a case that someone's alcoholism, for example, is abusive to the spouse.

It would certainly seem that way. Alas, like all things religious, it's open to interpretation.

[littlekitty]

Infidelity is the only offense that Christ allows us to dissolve a marriage covenant.

 

The offender, of course, would be held accountable, but not the innocent party.

 

In my mind, infidelity isn't necessarily a deal breaker either. If Mrs. Moose ever did cheat, that would force me to look more into where I have went wrong, and not her.....

 

Ahhh look... some clarification like I requested! Maybe I'll be able to give you a more precise answer now Moose!

[littlekitty]

OK, so the characteristics of a covenant aren't exactly as first stated then.

 

So there is at least one deal-breaker, according to biblical teachings.

 

And, because there is a dealbreaker, then a covenant is breakable, therefore by definition it's a contract.

 

There's definately been some confusion here about seperating the two, and what exactly is meant by covenant. Which was why I asked Moose for clarification...!

 

Anyway, to give Moose another one to count, I'm going to say 'covenant'. I would do everything in my power to work on the issues in my marriage rather than walk away. I only intend to do this once, and I intend on it being for rest of my life.

[Mz. Pixie]

Yes, well said. I think that's what I was getting at too, hence my confusion here.

 

I totally agree with what Touche has posted here. I'm not saying it's a contract as a way of looking for a way to get out. I totally lean more toward a covenant. Yet, I'm not totally Christ like enough to have total unconditional love towards a marriage partner- to which I would just tolerate anything and stay in the marriage.

 

There have been cases of people becoming drug addicts and alcoholics later on in life and there have been no previous hints of it. That's rare but if my partner ever did that- and I did my best to try to help them and they wouldn't accept it- I might have to separate. I know this is a sensitive point for you Moose, but I'm not sure it's something I could expose my children too.

[quankanne]

I realize that my marriage is a legal contract between the two of us, but because I live it more than just as a legality, I'd have to define it as a covenant. Licit and valid, as the Catholic Church teaches ...

[Craig]

How many here believe that Marriage should be based on a Contract, or a Covenant?

I wouldn't want my Marriage to be based upon either a Contract or a Covenant but to be based upon many things including mutual respect, compatibility (in many areas), informed consent, tolerance, understanding, compassion, etc. and the biggie to me--commitment.

 

Commitment to me means not only the absolute intention to see something through but to invest the time, resources and effort necessary to make sure that the commitment I am considering is feasible and viable.

 

Any fool can get married but how many married people actually have a marriage?

[reneet]

I wouldn't want my Marriage to be based upon either a Contract or a Covenant but to be based upon many things including mutual respect, compatibility (in many areas), informed consent, tolerance, understanding, compassion, etc. and the biggie to me--commitment.

 

Commitment to me means not only the absolute intention to see something through but to invest the time, resources and effort necessary to make sure that the commitment I am considering is feasible and viable.

 

Any fool can get married but how many married people actually have a marriage?

 

B I N G O !!!!!

[alphamale]

Explain please?

well...back in the old days when people used to get married at quite young ages (16-20) you may marry someeone who is mentally ill or insane and not know it. most serious mental illnesses don't manifest themselves until the late teens or early twenties. so if you married someone and they went insane afterwards it was grounds for divorcing the person.