How do I stop my mother bickering?

[mogster]

bickering - a quarrel about petty points; tiff,squabble,spat.

 

Hello All. I have read through your website and think it is excellent. Some of the discussion is far more serious than my own problems but I still haven’t quite been able to find the right answers to my concerns. Basically, I’m thinking of writing to my mum or having a sit down with her to discuss our differences.

 

I am a 37 year old man, happily married, with a 1 year old son. I live in Thailand, 6000 miles away from my mum and dad in England. I have lived overseas for 10 years. She is 66, dad is 71.

 

Every year, or so, we spend a holiday at my parents house. I am becoming increasingly aware of them getting old and as other relatives pass away, I start to worry about not seeing enough of my parents. I want to become friends with them. This is not an issue with my dad. Since the birth of my son my dad has become “Grandpa” and we have developed into friends, as well as family.

 

Right now, I am on holiday at my parents house.

Here’s the part I don’t understand. Whenever I visit, my mum and I constantly argue. I wake up dreading seeing her, and waiting for the first “comment” of the day. The problems seem to stem from my mum having very strong opinions and she believes all her opinions are absolutely correct. Any different opinion to hers is incorrect, no matter what scientific or historical evidence you can come up with. She’s not like this only with me. My dad, sister, relatives, neighbours, everybody gets it.

 

Her differences of opinion alienate her from us. However, our love for her means we try to accept the criticism and just bite our tongues. When she picks fault you try to ignore it or discuss some reasoning but eventually I tend to get angry and get upset. I don’t enjoy the arguments and get no satisfaction from the “butting of heads”. It just upsets me.

 

Heres a simple example that jumps to mind:

Driving along a road, I see a car in the rear view coming quite fast. Being unfamiliar with the road, and worried I might be dawdling, I ask her “Whats the speed limit down here mum?”

Answer “you don’t want to go too fast”

“No, what’s the speed limit?

“If you go too fast, you’ll get a ticket and its 60 pounds”

“No, what is the speed limit along here?”

“You should take it easy now you’ve got a wife and child to think about”

 

Or at dinner, I offer:

“Shall I open a bottle of wine?”

Mum – “I do wish you wouldn’t drink”

I open the wine

Mum – “It’s your grandad’s fault. Your dad’s father was an alcoholic”

 

I could go on, and on, but don’t want to bore you. But basicly, if a subject comes up which she has an opinion on, even if we were sitting with the worlds leading expert in the field, she would argue that she was right and we were all wrong!

 

What I want to say to her is that in a successful relationship, such as best friends or partners or normal families, people try to avoid differences of opinion or they agree to disagree. They make an effort to “get along”. Not bring differences up at every opportunity.

 

Now my problem is that I don’t want to waste the rest of our relatively short time together left on this planet by arguing. Life is too short and our homes are too far apart. When we get the opportunity to be together we should enjoy it, not bicker. I want to say that it’s going to be too late when one of us dies to be sorry.

 

If I could bring this up and solve this then one of the major missions in my life would have been accomplished. Unfortunately, I can see just broaching this subject could cause an irresolvable argument. My mum will say it’s not her that’s wrong it’s me, and I will head back to Thailand with the usual guilty and beaten feelings.

 

Now please understand. My mum is not mad, or doolally. She’s very sharp and intelligent. She is a keen sports woman and golfs 3-4 times a week. It just seems in the last 7-10 years she has gone from this motherly housewife I used to know, to become this independent “Spice Girl” type woman. She tries to dress fashionably and talks about how ‘good looking’ this guy or that guy is. She behaves like a young assertive woman. Dad is forced to do the cooking, cleaning and housework, while she plays this “Girl Power” role.

 

Sorry, I am probably going on a bit too much. I would love to hear what advice people can offer. What would be the best way for me to tell my mum that I don’t want to argue with her, life’s too short?

 

 

 

All advice welcomed

Cheers

[superconductor]

Do you and I have the same mum?

 

I made a decision some years back to just not argue with her anymore. She can taunt and play the victim and do all the rest of the passive-aggressive (and sometimes not so passive) things she wants but I simply refuse to rise to the bait. It's just not worth the argument.

 

It's not easy, certainly. But over the years I've found that I dread her company less and less.

[mogster]

Is that you, Sis ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I know what you are saying, and believe me, prior to this trip I solemnly promised myself I would not argue. I told myself "just let her enjoy the time with her grandson, and let sleeping dogs lie".

 

Not a chance.....

 

even the way i do a "Sudoku" puzzle in the newspaper in wrong.

 

"The way you're doing that is cheating"

I remain quiet

"Youre not supposed to do it like that"

I go sit outside

now she calls from inside - "IF YOURE NOT GOING TO DO IT PROPERLY YOU SHOULD LEAVE IT FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO DO"

I should laugh, but i can feel anger building inside.

She goes out to play golf leaving me festering in a huff.

[fishstar]

Er - is your mum my dad?!

 

I have a really highly critical father. Everything has always been wrong. The degree I chose, the uni I went to (4th top uni in country), my choice of friends (all decent people), my choice of holidays (excellent places), my clothes (er- jeans and t-shirts!), my cooking (ok I admit I have cooking disasters sometimes - usually when he is there making me nervous), the way I hang out the washing (he'll go and re-hang it), the way I drive, the amount of times I go to the gym/swimming (er - since when has keeping fit been bad?), etc etc, you get the picture.

 

It came to the point when I started ignoring it for a while, but then it got to me again. I confronted him. It was a really bad argument. I really regret it a lot actually. Cos he got really hurt about a lot of the things I mentioned - he didn't realise his over criticism was damaging and said he always means well. But I had to mention it cos it was getting ridiculous and I was getting upset a lot. Sometimes you have got to say what you have got to say and highly critical parents are the way they are, I have realised. He is actually making a lot more effort not to be negative anymore towards me so the talk must have had some effect.

[norajane]

One of my former managers had an unhappy, crabby mother like that. Then her mother started taking Prozac and all the crabby bickering stopped.

 

Your mom sounds like she feels disappointed by life (hence the Spice Girl thing now), and she's pissed off as hell about it.

[bluechocolate]

Sounds like my mother too. She is also thousands of miles away & spends a month a year with me. At some point during that month we will have an argument. A few years ago we had a doozy. What was interesting to me was how the tables turn. She was like a spoiled little brat & I was like the parent trying to have a calm rational discussion about how we should be friends who respect each other as equals.

 

What I want to say to her is that in a successful relationship, such as best friends or partners or normal families, people try to avoid differences of opinion or they agree to disagree. They make an effort to “get along”. Not bring differences up at every opportunity.

 

So why not say that to her? In a calm & rational steady voice.

 

Now my problem is that I don’t want to waste the rest of our relatively short time together left on this planet by arguing. Life is too short and our homes are too far apart. When we get the opportunity to be together we should enjoy it, not bicker.

 

You should say that to her also.

 

Anytime she does start to whinge or bicker at you get up & leave the room or leave the house & take your son with you and if money is not an issue I would seriously consider having separate accommodation from them as well.

 

What I ended up telling my mother is that I would not tolerate treatment from her that I wouldn't tolerate from a friend or a stranger. If she cannot treat me with respect as an adult & an equal then she can holiday elsewhere.

[nancyleeh]

Hi mogster,

You most likely won't reform her to any great degree at this stage of her life and I doubt that having a heart to heart will bring her around but I do have some ideas on how to handle conversations with your mum.

 

Here's a few tips on how to handle conversations with her:

So here's that conversation again:

You say: “Whats the speed limit down here mum?”

She says:“you don’t want to go too fast”

(you know she isn't going to answer your question so don't ask it again)

You might say something like: "No, I don't want to go to fast."

She says, “If you go too fast, you’ll get a ticket and its 60 pounds”

You say, "Yes mum, I don't want to get a ticket, it's very expensive."

She says: “You should take it easy now you’ve got a wife and child to think about”

You say, "Yes, it's important to take it easy."

 

The more you can find agreement on some level in what ever she says, the less fuel she will have to continue pushing your buttons. You may never have a genuine conversation with her but at least you can avoid some of the mind battles you are dealing with and defuse your talks with her.

 

Using your other example:

You say: “Shall I open a bottle of wine?”

She says: “I do wish you wouldn’t drink”

You say: "Yes mum, I understand that you wish I wouldn't drink."

You open the wine

She says: “It’s your grandad’s fault. Your dad’s father was an alcoholic”

You say: "Yes, dad's father was an alcoholic."

 

In that way you are simply voicing back what she said and finding some common ground without sacrificing yourself in the process. You may find you feel a lot calmer using those techniques. Sometimes people just want others to affirm and validate their opinions and if you can give that to her, she just might settle down a bit and stop trying to control conversations so much. Best wishes.

 

nancyleeh

[mogster]

Thanks for all the great replies so far. I feel more positive already. I just hope I can put the suggestions into practice in a “battlezone” . So the suggestions are:

 

Superconductor, fishstar, bluechocolate say address the issue.

If I really wanted to address this issue I would have done it. It’s the timing that I need to get right. It is at the worst moments of bickering that I have to address it, in a calm manner, with a good, fresh example, in hand. This is where I need the advice. Doing it when all is well would have no impact and I would be told I was being silly.

If the truth be known, I don’t want to hurt her feelings. I have known this woman longer than any other person in my life, and to be honest, for the first twenty odd years of my life she has been a wonderful, supportive, strong and loving mother who has made me into the man I am today. Even now she goes out of her way to make me and my family comfortable and happy. I am grateful to have her as a mother in every aspect except the one we are discussing. Someone suggested moving to a hotel. I booked a hotel before we came. I even have one booked for next week but I haven’t told her, and will probably cancel. You see, she has filled the house with toys for our son, she has stocked up on food and drinks, and she has made half of her house a comfortable little area for us to stay. I can see she loves having us around the place. My sister has commented that she hasn’t seen mother put this much effort in at home for ages. My dad has said he hasn’t seen my sister around visiting so often for ages. Our visit seems to be bringing the whole family together. So hopefully you can see why I don’t want to move to the hotel. By staying at mum’s house, and making a few sacrifices myself, the rest of the family seems happier. This is essentially my goal. For everyone to have a happy relationship with my mother.

 

Norah Jane said she sounds disappointed in life. I think you are right. She feels she deserves more. For her, retirement and the kids leaving home meant freedom from household chores. She used to dream of an active social life with my dad. To go dancing and for meals. However now he’s retired, he won’t go out – he’s frugal. She says he’s mean. She was the youngest child from a large family and always wanted to be surrounded by her big happy family. My sis and I left home young and I moved 6000+ miles away. Her elder siblings and closest friends have all gone and died in the last 10 years. Yeah, she’s definitely disappointed.

 

Medication.

I’m 100% sure she would never take prozac. My mum is a woman who believes “you are what you eat”. Every single scandal mentioned with regard to food causes her to remove it from her diet. Now she won’t buy anything unless it has “organic” written on it.

Eg.

Tea or Coffee – must be decaffeinated. Caffeine is bad for you

Eggs – refuses to eat any other than free range since Edwina Currie said they have salmonella

British beef – refuses to eat due to mad cows disease

Chicken – Will give you Bird flu

Wheat germ – refuses to eat – causes IBS

Wines from certain countries – have battery acid in.

Cream – must be diet cream. Fat will clog your arteries.

Cheese – only eats “low fat” cheese

The closest my mum gets to medication is chamomile tea and a “women’s multivitamin”.

What you put in your mouth is one of her biggest bickering points!

 

Nancyleeh - I love your suggestion of basically agreeing with her. It is one that my sister and I have used extensively. In fact, we have perfected it so when done in the right way everyone in the house recognizes we are “agreeing with mum”, except mum who carries on regardless. It has been the source of most of our jokes for the last couple of years. Unfortunately, our responses become sarcastic and the joke becomes cruel. It can be more alienating because it feels like we are ganging up on Mum.

 

Example:

Mum, calling to the rest of us, (doing a crossword) – What’s the capital of Iran?

Me – try Tehran

Mum – Are you sure it’s not Lehran?

Me – Fairly sure, Check your other answer.

Mum - No that’s definitely right.

Me – Sis, is the capital of Iran “LLLLLehran?

Sis – Possibly

Dad – Let me check in the atlas LL LLLL LLLLehran you say? ….. no not in the book

Mum – well the newspaper got it wrong then

Me – Oh yes, the newspaper probably got it wrong.

Sis – Yes it’s the newspaper mum. They often get things wrong.

Dad – you shouldn’t believe all you read in the newspaper.

 

Then she sees we’re all making fun of her and gets quite hurt and quiet. And we all feel bad……………..

 

It’s a problem. One which I really appreciate you all helping with. I may have to bring the other family members in on this and suggest something. Perhaps along the lines of a meeting where we agree to get along, avoid differences. Accept life is short and we are living far away.

 

Sorry about the length of the post, but I want to include everything. The stuff about her being a “Spice Girl” for example has provided some excellent feedback.

 

All advice very much appreciated and taken in

 

Cheers

[nancyleeh]

Hi again,

 

Just to clarify, my suggestion to find some kind of agreement in what mum says was not meant to be done in a joking manner, which would of course be put down to her. Making her the butt of a joke surely would make her feel bad. It is meant to just validate and affirm what she is saying to make her responses have some worth yet not allow her to run the show. I do hope that you and the family find some kind of peace with this. She sounds like a very kind and loving women who for what ever reason is having trouble communicating.

 

nancylheeh

[mogster]

She sounds like a very kind and loving women who for what ever reason is having trouble communicating.

 

Thanks for the reply nancyleeh. You are absolutely right.

 

By the way, I understood your original advice and agree with you. However putting it into practice in a serious way is extremely difficult in that you are never actually communicating, or getting feedback, just agreeing. After several attempts of this I always find myself falling into the "sarcastic agreement tone" just to end the conversation as quick as possible without too many casualties.

 

I think for the next few days I shall try your method. And see what happens.

 

Has anyone actually been through this before and found a solution?

[nancyleeh]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]Hi mogster,

 

My father is a wonderful man but he tends to dominate conversations and has to have the last word, is always 'right' and will continue on with his point of view no matter how much anyone tries to get him to see another side of things. I know this is not exactly what you go through with your mum but my brothers and I always had a hard time talking to him.

 

Someone suggested that when in his presence to take a different approach and imagine that he is not my father but someone whom I recently met, someone unrelated to me, and speak to him as I would to any one else who came along my path. It was an interesting concept and at first was awkward but the more I was able to step out of my daughter shoes and into acquaintance shoes I was better able to see him as the kind and loving person he is who simply has a hard time with 'himself'. My way of talking to him changed. I was better able to allow him to be himself when I came from this point of view. It released me from having a lot of expectations about how he should act and who he should be and I relaxed more in his presence. I also began to give him some much needed applause or compliments for all the wonderful things he has accomplished in his life and started thanking him as well. He melts, literally melts. Of course he still continues his habit of wanting to be 'right' and have the last word and if in conversations, my views are not heard, I nod my head and listen to him for as long as I can and then move on to other family members in conversation. One other thing that seems to help is giving him the space to talk about the 'old days'. It is his favorite subject and he delights in telling my brothers and I about how it was in 'those days', lol, and will go on and on and I see this light in his eyes about how he came from his poor roots and worked like a dog to make a good life for our family. It kind of makes me melt too when listening to him tell his stories. Well now I've gone on and on.

 

nancyleeh

[/FONT]

[mogster]

Someone suggested that when in his presence to take a different approach and imagine that he is not my father but someone whom I recently met, someone unrelated to me, and speak to him as I would to any one else who came along my path. It was an interesting concept and at first was awkward but the more I was able to step out of my daughter shoes and into acquaintance shoes I was better able to see him as the kind and loving person he is who simply has a hard time with 'himself'.

 

Brilliant. Brilliant and inspirational. Thanks nancyleeh. I think you have hit the nail on the head.

 

Okay, I'm going to think about this and get myself "in character". I may even mention it to my sister. give me a few days. This is plan 'A'.

 

I love the idea. Any other points of view to take into consideration?

Can I improve on this?

[Moose]

Sounds like to me that all she really wants is a little respect, deserved or no, she feels she isn't getting it......

[mogster]

^ What leads you to think that she wants respect? As an example.

[Moose]

What leads you to think that she wants respect? As an example.

Well, I only read your first post, so let me pick from there.

I ask her “Whats the speed limit down here mum?”

Answer “you don’t want to go too fast”

“No, what’s the speed limit?

“If you go too fast, you’ll get a ticket and its 60 pounds”

“No, what is the speed limit along here?”

“You should take it easy now you’ve got a wife and child to think about”

It doesn't matter at this point what the speed limit is. You should've ackowledged her wisdom about the area and respected her advice. I believe you would've been able to get the limit from her then.

Or at dinner, I offer:

“Shall I open a bottle of wine?”

Mum – “I do wish you wouldn’t drink”

I open the wine

Mum – “It’s your grandad’s fault. Your dad’s father was an alcoholic”

Again, respect her wisdom on these things, and acknowledge her that you realize she only cares for your health.....

[mogster]

This is wonderful stuff. Are you playing the devil’s advocate or do you actually have the same viewpoint as my mum?

 

If I had shown this thread to my mother (which I have been considering) I am pretty sure, knowing her, that she would have said almost exactly what you said, Moose.

 

Acknowledging her intelligence is what she craves even if, oftentimes, she misses the point of a conversation completely and begins a discussion on a completely tangential subject. This was exactly what happened in the case you quoted. I thought I was dawdling along in the car with some boy-racer screaming up behind me! She, and you, missed the point. I didn’t want to accelerate to break neck speed. She assumed I did. That’s what made me angry.

 

How can you acknowledge her wisdom if she is completely wrong or doesn’t really know what she is talking about? How can I honestly say “Yes mum, I think you are absolutely right” when she is talking about “How the Australian National football team is going to win the Soccer world cup because their players are the most good looking.” By the way, just to put you in the picture, I know a lot about football and Australia were never going to win the World Cup no matter how good looking they were.

 

"I only care for your health" is her favourite line. I get battered over the head with this line any time I eat, drink, or do anything that she thinks is wrong. “Don’t eat those eggs you’ll get salmonella.”; ”Don’t eat chicken, you’ll get bird flu.”; “Don’t put cream on those strawberries, you’ll get heart disease”

 

My point, and she would likely miss it, is that none of these opinions are based on fact. They are just things she has decided upon along the way. It is her ‘misinformation’, which she so loyally sticks by, that causes the bickering in the first place.

 

I agree that she craves acknowledgment and respect for her wisdom.

 

How would you acknowledge her wisdom?

 

Or are you playing the devil’s advocate?

 

If you are serious I will try to incorporate some "wisdom acknowledgement" into nancyleeh' s PLAN A. I am listening to all opinions just in case I am missing something completely. Solving this means a lot to me.

[Moose]

mogster,

 

Can I say something first? I wish that more people who came here to LS would respond to my posts the way you just did!!! I'm not a communications major, but I think I do understand people, some types better than others....

 

The manner in which you responded was very respectful, I appreciate that.

 

No, I'm not wishing to play the devil's advocate. It's my desire to show you how to be more at peace when you're around your mum.

 

You know, and most people around your mum knows that she's full of beans most of the time. (no insult intended).

 

But she is still your mum.

 

She carried you and your siblings in her womb for 9 months. She's suffered and sacrificed for you until you were able to take flight on your own.

 

And for that, she deserves the respect, and even the humilty that a person who wouldn't be here without her deserves.

 

As much as it pains you knowing you're right, you should have patience with her when she demands she's right. Just laugh it off, and play along....don't be cynical about it, be lovingly cheerfull......

[mogster]

Thank you, Moose. That is what I was hoping you would come back with. A thoroughly honest and heartfelt opinion. I concur completely.

 

I just realised something new. I am not dealing with a business competitor or an enemy here.

 

She is my mum. And thank you, sincerely, for pointing that out.

 

I am seeing this in a completely different light now and you're right. What does it matter if things are not factually correct.

I'm big enough to work that out, right?

 

......pausing for thought.........

[norajane]

Do some research on St. John's Wort - it's an herb that can help depression in some people. Maybe you can find a report that a news person she respects has done about the effects of St. John's Wort and give it to her telling her that you only care for her health. Maybe she'll start taking it with her chamomile.

 

It's rough, I know. My parents were prickly when I was younger, especially my dad. But they've mellowed at as they've gotten older, so I feel lucky that we've had a wonderful relationship for a long time now. Good luck to you.

[mogster]

The manner in which you responded was very respectful, I appreciate that.

.....It's my desire to show you how to be more at peace when you're around your mum........She's suffered and sacrificed for you until you were able to take flight on your own.

 

And for that, she deserves the respect, and even the humilty that a person who wouldn't be here without her deserves.

 

As much as it pains you knowing you're right, you should have patience with her when she demands she's right. Just laugh it off, and play along....don't be cynical about it, be lovingly cheerfull......

 

Moose,

This is the most sage advice. I have analysed your post. It is a masterful reply, but I think you already know that from experience. If you are not a communications major then it is because you are the communications professor.

 

Having put your advice into practice I have found that not only has my mother become warm and constructive, but I am less upset by the odd remark. I have written this down inside my wallet for quick referal: "She deserves the respect, and even the humility, that a person who wouldn't be here without her, deserves."

 

If all is still well at the end of my holiday I shall put a prefix of <SOLVED> in front of the thread title. Thanks

[Moose]

You're most certainly welcome. I'm glad things are settling down for you.

 

I'm assuming you're going to share with your siblings, and even your father.

 

Maybe together you can change your mum's life and make an entirely new woman out of her.

[mogster]

One day at a time .... but yes that is certainly the intention.

Not sure if I shall be able to persuade them as eloquently as you did with me but I'll devise something gradually.