11 months no talk of marriage

[Guest]

Here is my problem, I have been with my boyfriend 11 months. Most everything is good, I would not say perfect, I don't know if I believe in perfect but that is another thread. He told me when we first went out he did not believe in marriage, but did believe 2 people could have a forever or long term relationship just as meaningful without a legal meaningless piece of paper.

 

I told him I have a two year timeline, if I am together with someone that long either it goes forward into marriage/engagement, as I hope we would both believe we are eachother's "ones", or it is split up time. He said to me "well I'm still here I did not run away after hearing that".

 

But recently we talked about it, and his views are still very anti marriage, he thinks people give up trying when they are married because this piuece of paper locks you in for life. I said that is very negative, I think it is a public declaration that you are intent on making it work with this other person day in and day out.

 

I am not marriage crazy, in the sense that I need to get married, but I do need to feel I am that for him. What I do not want is to be with a guy for 5 years who I am not sure i want to marry(I use marry to also mean be with the rest of my life, not just a marriage ceremony), or even worse- I want to be with him but we keep dating and dating and have him dump me and be engaged to his "one" within a few months and having me standing there wondering why I waited for him so long. Happens all the time.

 

So, seeing how he has not budged on being anti marriage, yet has said that my speech on the timeline did not make him run away and he was still here are sending me conflicting messages.

 

He has also said vague things, when I brought it up like " yeah i think about being married to you, I'm not ready yet though".

 

I would never pressure him , I would not want that, but I must admit I am wary to stick around for another year hoping he will change.

Or is he hoping I will give up my timeline?

Or should i just go with the flow and see what happens?

Or is that dumb considering his stance and my stance have not changed in a year. I am really confused.

 

Any advice/personal experience from anyone? This is such a great forum, so many of you really are quite perceptive and it is nice to have people to discuss this with.

[superconductor]

Seems that he as pretty clear, right up front, about his aversion to marriage, and he's kept to that.

 

You knew, right away, what you were getting into, so I'm not sure exactly what you want here. Did you expect him to change his mind?

[Kittiecat]

SC is right. I think the most you can hope for is that he'll warm to the idea of marrying YOU after however long you want to wait. So ask yourself this - how long do you want to wait?

 

Personally, I think after 11 months you should know whether or not a man is ape sh*t over you. If he isn't, I'd move on.

 

Again, that's just me. I speak as someone who stayed at the fair too long.

[tikigods]

he told you what he felt so you can't get mad at him for not changing that. You are the one that decided to go ahead even with the flat out saying that he didn't believe in marriage. I say dump him now so you can find someone that will fit into your silly timetable

[Guest]

Thank you for your responses, well I guess i thought love WILL conquer all and he'd warm to the idea, which was an assumption and a chance I took.

 

I know the timetable may sound silly, I guess it is, but I really love him and the reality that no mind changing is happening on his part kind of hurts.I think thee was a time that if things were good I'd roll with it regardless of the timetable, but I have seen so many relationships sputter out and usually the girl is on the short end of that stick, at least it gives me a deadline that I can adhere too-a sense of some control in the situation.

 

I don't know if I can break up over this, but it is a bit of a reality check. And I was pretty up front too- so why did he stay with me, if the question can be reversed?

 

I'm not sure if he is apes**t over me kittiecat, I guess I'm using the marriage thing as the ultimate litmus test. Sorry I know that's not a lot to go on. Bah I'm confused.

 

But airing it out here has helped me a lot to hear your perspectives!

[norajane]

And I was pretty up front too- so why did he stay with me, if the question can be reversed?

 

Because you stayed with him even though he told you how he felt about marriage. He doesn't have anything to lose by staying with you.

[Mirage222]

I am truly sorry for your situation guest but I've been with my LOVE for 3 years and he also does not want to get married... I did not know this going into the relationship ... you do, so consider yourself lucky. I had to deal with the thought of either leaving my guy for what ever else may be out there or stay with him, with no marriage to come but be very happy (which we are) with no marriage though... I chose to stay with him and now I feel marriage is nothing to me.

 

He did tell you in the beginning and no, he will not change his mind. He was honest to begin with. Now, you need to decide what is going to fit your lifestyle to your liking...

[bluechocolate]

So I guess you'll be dumping him 13 months from now.

 

Seriously though, this seems pretty straight forward to me. He told you how he feels about it & yet you still went ahead believing some myth about love conquering all. If marriage is important to you then you should have stopped with this guy before you started.

[Walk]

My first reaction to your original post was "Girl, get your head out of your butt!" But on second thought... I think I can kind of relate to what your saying, if I understood you right. I think basically you want to know how he really feels about you. Whether you're his "one", or just the one to pass time with. The question of whether you rock his world enough to chain himself to you for life... or if its just comfortable for him, and he doesn't want to rock the boat by breaking up. Is that kind of what you mean when you talk about wanting to get married? Or am I completely off base here?

 

Anyway.. You have to accept you won't change his mind regarding marriage. And he's not going to rush to marry you before the two years is up. Let go of that notion all together. It won't happen. That's fairy tale land. He's been clear and consistent in his feelings regarding marriage from the get-go. It wasn't even open to comprimise.

 

So, if you want the "show" of his commitment to forever with you, are there any other ways in which he could show this? Without marrage?

 

Last thought.. How does he know you really love him, and you're not just there in order to get married? If you feel he doesnt' really love you unless he's willing to commit, then maybe he feels you aren't really with him except as a means to get married... Especially since you told him you would be married after two years together. Then it isn't about the relationship, but about the status. And I dont' think he'd have much motivation to marry you if he felt you were doing it for the wrong reasons.

Just a thought.

[Guest]

Yes I see your points Mirage and Norajane. Just needed to clear the glitter dust of self deception from my eyes I guess.

 

We have talked about the future and he has asked me if I would come with him when he is relocated overseas in about 3 years (well it is an option at his company, and he is interested in living overseas at some point, who knows if he will actually do it, but at that time anything could happen in terms of relocation).

 

But somehow the thought of moving my life away from home to be with him in a new country and not be married, just a BF/GF living together situation does not sound exciting, but actually really scary. That is a huge life altering commitment. Yet minus the marriage part.

 

We do not live together now, but if that happened then we would live together. I also am not comfortable with living together without an engagement or being married, it just reeks of "test run" to me personally. So yes, that is a problem. But it seems so so far away, that would be in about another 3 years and I never count my chickens before they hatch. Yet knowing that at some point that will happen, and just how long am i supposed to wait?

 

Or just take a chance and believe we will be one of those 10 year couples who move in together and never get married? The only problem is that is his vision of how he wants things, not mine. I am not sure if I want to go along with his vision....yet I do not want to really break up over this.

 

It sucks because some of my guy friends have said if they met the right girl they would marry her in a minute. I guess that is what I was hoping he would come around too. I feel badly because I thought i was that for him regardless of his declaration in the beginning.

 

But it is not for me to ponder and feel bad and mope, it is just a question of:

1) accept?

2)give myself an internal deadline and stick with it if no changes by so and so date?

3) Just spare myself anymore investment of time and emotion and bail.....

 

Sad, eh? I mean you want to treat the relationship like an adventure, this is so not romantic to be fixated on it. Yet knowing everything so clearly I still can't figure out what I want out of this. I wish I could just decide.

 

Thanks for reading this long post.

[Guest]

Whether you're his "one", or just the one to pass time with. The question of whether you rock his world enough to chain himself to you for life... or if its just comfortable for him, and he doesn't want to rock the boat by breaking up. Is that kind of what you mean when you talk about wanting to get married? Or am I completely off base here?

 

(me:GUEST)yes oh wise stranger! That is exactly it! I have a hard time expressing what I mean and babble too much. Yes that is what is important to me. That, what you just said.....

 

Anyway.. You have to accept you won't change his mind regarding marriage. And he's not going to rush to marry you before the two years is up. Let go of that notion all together. It won't happen. That's fairy tale land. He's been clear and consistent in his feelings regarding marriage from the get-go. It wasn't even open to comprimise.

 

I feel you are right deep down. You know how us women can be, always reading into things (or maybe it's just me)

 

So, if you want the "show" of his commitment to forever with you, are there any other ways in which he could show this? Without marrage?

 

That is a good question. A tattoo around his wedding ring finger with my name? haha but seriously that would be good.

 

Last thought.. How does he know you really love him, and you're not just there in order to get married? If you feel he doesnt' really love you unless he's willing to commit, then maybe he feels you aren't really with him except as a means to get married... Especially since you told him you would be married after two years together. Then it isn't about the relationship, but about the status. And I dont' think he'd have much motivation to marry you if he felt you were doing it for the wrong reasons.

Just a thought.

 

My goodness you are keen and wise! Well I tried to explain I use marriage as a symbol that just means you are THE one, as opposed to a comfortable relationship. Eh, who am I kidding, I'm insecure and want validation through legal means. Yes perhaps I am waiting for that commitment to give of myself completely. Conditional love. I love security. Emotional security.

 

And because he is so against marriage it is a symbol to me that if he changed his mind it would be the ultimate vow of love. Wow re-reading this I sound very confused. But at least I'm honest. And you hit the nail on the head. That is the problem with the M word. As soon as it is brought up, a guy thinks the girl wants it more than the person she is marrying.

 

Sometimes I wish I never brought it up at all. It is like an unspoken code amongst women-don't ever mention marriage and he'll want to on his own. Mention it and it'll never happen. Or maybe you already knew that so that's why you (generally speaking) are thinking about it.

[Guest]

Because you stayed with him even though he told you how he felt about marriage. He doesn't have anything to lose by staying with you.

 

 

He does in the sense that if i did not feel he was the one for me, or vice versa that I would walk. I guess that sounds cold, but I said if two people love eachother and are sure about eachother then within a reasonable time why should that not be hapening? And if one of us does not feel that way I believe it is better to end it than stick around for years where one or both of us is not sure enough of the other to take a next step.

 

So it seems strange why he would stay knowing if we love eachother but he is still opposed to marriage i basically stated it would be time to move on. Why stick around for 2 years emotionally investing yourself if he will not marry me and knows I will leave? I could still *hope* he comes around, but if he does not this has a deadline.

 

Or so I said, who knows if i will really leave.

[norajane]

Marriage will not give you the emotional security you crave. He can keep that from you even if married.

 

You can give yourself emotional security - and should - so you don't need it from someone else. I believe you ought to muster up enough emotional security to leave him now since his life goals and yours ultimately do not match up.

 

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be married one day, to make a promise to each other to commit to building a future together. It's not just a meaningless piece of paper to you. If it is to him, you might consider dating one of those friends of yours who say they'd get married in a minute if they found the right girl. One of those guys is more 'right' for you than the guy you're dating.

[bluetuesday]

...you might consider dating one of those friends of yours who say they'd get married in a minute if they found the right girl. One of those guys is more 'right' for you than the guy you're dating.

 

i disagree. just because two people want to get married to someone doesn't mean they are more right for each other than two people who are great together but have different views of marriage. being a fan of marriage doesn't necessarily make you a better life partner than someone who doesn't like the institution. it doesn't speak volumes about your character in the same way as... being a fan of communism, for example.

 

getting married is an odd life goal. i understand people wanting to find someone they love and adore and spend forever making happy, but the marriage bit is so arbitrary. considering it's the vows you make in your heart that keep you in the relationship, i don't see that having an opinion about whether you want to declare those vows publicly can be used for or against someone.

 

to me it's like saying 'i love him but he hates broccoli and i just always had a dream as a little girl that i would fall in love with a man i could share my love of broccoli with'.

 

if someone seeks the security of marriage as a way to compensate for insecurity within themselves or to convince themselves the other person is serious about them, they're not terribly good marriage material, IMO. just a thought.

[norajane]

If they agree on the significance of marriage and what it is, it means they agree on something that's very important to them as a way of living and going through life. That means they do have something important in common and if they're friends to begin with, it's not a bad start - a better start than if they disagree on their views about something that is significant to them.

[pricillia]

What is so great about marriage anyway? I was wondering if the OP could just enjoy the relationship instead of worrying if he will marry her or not.

[britchick]

I'd be really interested to know how old the OP is.

 

Anyway, I'm in one of those been together 10 years but not married couples, we've thought about it a couple of times but things are fine as they are for us, so why change.

 

I can understand why you want to get married, but getting married doesn't mean you are 'safe'. IMO you can have a commited relationship without any bits of paper, it's about the promises you make to each other and the expectations you have of each other, not the expectations of or declarations to the outside world.

 

Do you love him, trust him, is he good to you? If so, is marriage within a timescale really that important? From what you've said, he sees his future with you - doesn't that tell you something about how much you mean to him?

 

11 months isn't a long relationship, you're still in the honeymoon period. I don't understand how you arrived at a cut off time of 2 years. Do you feel that you should be married soon, because of your age or some other reason?

 

IMO you should relax and see where this relationship goes before worrying at the outset whether he is the marrying kind!

[Guest]

I'm 31 Britchik. Although that is stereotypically the age women want to get married, my concerns are more that I do not have too much family left around me, most passed away etc. so I am very concerned about being all alone in the world in a few years when most likely the last of my remaining family will have passed too.

 

But reading these posts I have come to the conclusion that I would rather be with someone who I love and disagree about the marriage part then someone who wants to get married that I do not feel that towards him.

 

And you all are right, marriage does not guarantee fidelity or forever anymore. But I do like the idea that their are great legal consequences if he does not live up to his husbandly duties, whereas with a BF situation he can leave scot free. I did not mean any disrespect by mentioning 10 year couples as an example, I wish I could believe love and beliefs were enough.

 

I know this sounds so disturbing, but I am coming from a place of fear, for the reasons I listed above. I do feel this need to legally bind him to me to guarantee I have family, not children, just him and me as the family. Thanks so much for all the feedback, I will try to just enjoy the relationship without an end goal.

[Mirage222]

I find it odd guest, that you are going on what your guy friends say .. "If she was the one, I would marry her in a minute"... Good for them but that is not everyone's outlook on marriage. NO, because your man does not want to marry you does not mean that he does not love you, cherish you, or anything different from a married couple.

 

People seem to think marriage is the key to happiness when it really is not. I have never been married - probably never will be (remember my guy does not want marriage either) but I see newlyweds all around and they (my firends, friends of friends) truly do not seem happier then they were. It's more like these new married people now think they have some sort of "control" on eachother.. funky I'll tell ya!!

 

If your not comfy moving states with him then don't do it. Don't put the "I will not live with you unless I have a ring on my finger" deal on him because his outlook with be "I guess we are never living together". If marriage is something you are totally sure you want down the road then go and find it... that is, without your current man. He is happy the way he is. Also, 11 months is NOTHING as far as relationships go.. Heck, I brought up the thought of possible marriage way into 2 years with my guy... Just too soon.

 

How old are you? Not that age matters but in few cases it does...

[LaughMachine]

I think your just jumping too far ahead of the relationship and expecting all this stuff from someone who might now be wanting to pursue marriage ...yet. Who knows if you will even be with him for 10 years? thats an awfully long time...

[LaughMachine]

I think your just jumping too far ahead of the relationship and expecting all this stuff from someone who might now be wanting to pursue marriage ...yet. Who knows if you will even be with him for 10 years? thats an awfully long time...

[napoleandynamite]

he may not be in love with you. eventhough he made his intentions clear in the begining, if he was truly in love, he would have changed his mind entirely.

 

If you are not satisfied with his belief on marriage, then break it off with him and look elsewhere.

 

Are you still sticking around with him because you fear being alone? If that's the case, try not to feel that way, because months or years down the line, you'll find someone better. And think of the time you have already wasted with this man...do you want to wait another year in hopes he will change his mind about marrying you?

 

BTW... this is from someone who has experience in this situation. You are the one who has to make a choice here. Think about all the hundreds of men out there who you could be meeting, dating, and possibly marrying. You have one now, but you know where it's going. Perhaps if you terminate the relationship and move on, he will realize how valuable you are to him and propose marriage. See what happens, as you never know when lightning may strike!

[Mary3]

Seems that he as pretty clear, right up front, about his aversion to marriage, and he's kept to that.

 

You knew, right away, what you were getting into, so I'm not sure exactly what you want here. Did you expect him to change his mind?

 

 

Amen ..............

[Almost]

getting married is an odd life goal. i understand people wanting to find someone they love and adore and spend forever making happy, but the marriage bit is so arbitrary. considering it's the vows you make in your heart that keep you in the relationship, i don't see that having an opinion about whether you want to declare those vows publicly can be used for or against someone.

 

I used to think like bluetuesday, that "marriage is a piece of paper" and doesn't really mean anything.

 

Then I grew up.

 

What a deal this guy is getting by being able to be with you without any real commitment. And maybe he can get you to live with him overseas too! You take all the risk and he gets all the benefits of marriage, without actually have to make the commitment of marriage! What a deal!

 

It used to be guys couldn't get away with that. But now, women are more willing to be with guys for 5 or 10 years and then get dumped when they are 45 years old for a new girl that is 25 or 30. And if kids are involved, no big deal, everyone has kids out of wedlock these days, so it must be ok.

 

The woman is the one taking all the risk of getting pregnant and having to raise kids. They guy can always walk away and wash his hands of the situation if he wants to. Or just pay child support from long distance.

 

If you think about it, the institution of marriage, historically, has been basically for the woman and for the kids. A woman has a lot more to lose by living with a guy and having kids with a guy, without being married, than the guy does.

 

You can talk all you want about it being possible to be totally committed to each other without being married, and how that piece of paper doesn't add anything to the committment or make it any more real or more important.

 

BULL SH*T!!!

 

If that's the case, why not just get married then, since it doesn't mean anything and is no big deal. Just walk on down to the city hall and get legally married.

 

It means a hell of a lot. It means you've made a promise to yourself, your spouse, your friends and family, to the public, and to God that you are going to stay together forever. It's a hell of a lot different than just making a casual committment to each other in private without getting married.

 

If I was a girl, I wouldn't move in and live with a guy unless he got engaged to me. I certainly wouldn't move overseas without being engaged, and probably not without being married.

 

But as I guy, I would be psyched if I had a girlfriend who would be willing to stay with me without me having to make any kind of real committment to her like getting married. What a deal!

[britchick]

I'm 31 Britchik. Although that is stereotypically the age women want to get married, my concerns are more that I do not have too much family left around me, most passed away etc. so I am very concerned about being all alone in the world in a few years when most likely the last of my remaining family will have passed too.

 

But reading these posts I have come to the conclusion that I would rather be with someone who I love and disagree about the marriage part then someone who wants to get married that I do not feel that towards him.

 

And you all are right, marriage does not guarantee fidelity or forever anymore. But I do like the idea that their are great legal consequences if he does not live up to his husbandly duties, whereas with a BF situation he can leave scot free. I did not mean any disrespect by mentioning 10 year couples as an example, I wish I could believe love and beliefs were enough.

 

I know this sounds so disturbing, but I am coming from a place of fear, for the reasons I listed above. I do feel this need to legally bind him to me to guarantee I have family, not children, just him and me as the family. Thanks so much for all the feedback, I will try to just enjoy the relationship without an end goal.

 

I didn't take offense at the been together 10 years couples, just recognised myself!

 

Obviously, this is just my opinion, but although there are legal consequences to leaving a marriage, the legal system doesn't compensate you for how it leaves you feeling. Any serious, committed relationship is painful to leave, married or not. Punishing someone financially for leaving a relationship does not make it easier and tying someone into a relationship because they are scared to leave because of what it may do to them financially is no relationship at all.

 

I'm sorry that you feel this fear, but perhaps a healthier way forward would be to address your fears so that you can be happy with someone or without them, that would be a basis for a good relationship, with marriage or without it.