11 months no talk of marriage

[Almost]

I can understand why you want to get married, but getting married doesn't mean you are 'safe'. IMO you can have a commited relationship without any bits of paper, it's about the promises you make to each other and the expectations you have of each other, not the expectations of or declarations to the outside world.

 

Sorry but I have to disagree with britchick. Of course the promises you make to each other are what is most important. That has to be there as a prerequisite. But also making promises to the outside world and to God or whatever you believe in, also is a big deal and makes a difference.

 

Also, there is a difference in making promises to each other in private, and in making promises to each other with all your family and friends and the world as witnesses.

 

It's kind of like the difference between making a gentleman's bet with someone for no money and without shaking hands and with no witness, compared to making a real bet for $100 and shaking hands and having a witness. Only more so.

 

Granted people can get pretty easy divorces these days, but still, it means more to be married and have some legal responsibility if you get divorced, as opposed to just being able to leave someone some day with no strings attached and no responsibility, legal or otherwise.

 

Call me old fashioned, but that's the way I see it.

 

I told my sister when she was going to move in with a guy that she should get engaged first. Our parents and our grandmother felt the same way, and my sister came to me to get my opinion, hoping that I would disagree with them and tell her its ok to move in with a guy without getting engaged. On this one I had to agree with my parents and my grandmother. Actually my grandmother thought she should actually get married first but was kind of mollified by the engagement.

 

They did end up getting engaged and have now been happily married for 10 years and have two kids.

 

Of course my parents and grandmother said they would have no problem if I lived with a girl without being engaged. But that's because I'm a guy. Yes it's a double standard, but that's just the way it works.

[Touche]

Loved your posts Almost! They could have been written by me. I couldn't agree with you more.

 

And to the oP. Why do you think it has to be an either or decision as far as being with this man you love and no marriage OR having marriage with some lesser guy.

 

What makes you think you can't have BOTH?

 

You just have to risk it and go for what you REALLY want. Tell him you want to date others and he can too if you want. Or leave him all together.

 

I think 11 months IS plenty of time to shyt or get off the pot. Especially since you're not in your 20's anymore.

 

And for the record, I don't think it's silly to want what you want.

[Almost]

You just have to risk it and go for what you REALLY want. Tell him you want to date others and he can too if you want. Or leave him all together.

 

I bet this guy would change his tune if the girl told him she really needed a real commitment in the form of an engagement/marriage, especially before moving overseas.

 

I don't think 11 months is really that long to be dating without getting engaged or married, but if they are talking about moving in or moving overseas, then it should come into the picture.

 

But if you made it clear that you don't intend to live with him for years on end without getting married, and are prepared to really walk away if he doesn't agree, I bet he would rethink his position on all this, if he is really truely in love with you. Right now, he is getting all the benefits of marriage already, so there's no reason for him to change his mind. But you would have to be willing to risk it all to find out if he is willing to change his mind.

[Guest]

Hey Touche, Almost and Britchik.

Wow your posts really moved me. This is certainly an interseting discussion, unfortunately I can see everyone's points, including the people who have admonished me for sticking around and trying to change him when he was upfront. The tangled web we weave!

 

Yeah I am going between all these choices:

 

a) thinking it is too early, because quite honestly I don't know if I want to marry him even if he asked me tommorrow-- we still need things I have to see if they can be worked out. Some issues that have been long standing I can't go into here. It is too early for myself to know if he is the one I want to spend my life with.

 

b) feeling bad I had given a conversational ultimatum at all that may have given the impression I wanted to marry him specifically, I don't want to come off as desperate. I just don't see why it is bad to say "yes I do see marriage for myself at some point in the future". Shoul I hide my expectations?

 

(for the record: I NEVER said "you must marry me by the 3rd year or we are over" --to the gentleman above who mentioned how ultimatums are a dealbreaker-- it was more a conversation like a generalized discusion, not personalized.

ie:in my humble opinion I think it is good if people know what they want from eachother by the 2nd or 3rd year and I elaborated a bit by giving examples)

 

c) completely agreeing with Touche and Almost that if I decide he is 100% right for me after some more time, then it is time to s**t or get off the pot.

 

d) Staying and just enjoying the relationship but always with a needling doubt, that he would change his mind if he was really intent on keeping me. And the fear of putting that to the test, trying to figure out if it is that important.

 

But I am definitely not moving to another country or even another state without marriage/engagement period. But that is 3 years away.

 

I liked what you said Britchik about finding security within.

[Guest]

But you would have to be willing to risk it all to find out if he is willing to change his mind.

 

And that is the center of this.

 

After all my back and forth I also want to be sure I truly want that from him and he is right for me.

I'll keep you all posted (if I may be so egocentric) in a few months.

There are some big issues that we do not see eye to eye on, and it will tear us apart if we cannot get to the bottom of it, or it can join us if we do.

 

But I won't go into a marriage without reolution. I guess I am being unfair because I want to see him give me a commitment so I know his heart is in the right place, whereas I am still undecided, only time will tell.

 

Hey touche, you also seem like a wise lady, I get the feeling you have been there or seen enough that you don't accept halfway measures. I hope to be like that too.

[rainfall]

I used to think like bluetuesday, that "marriage is a piece of paper" and doesn't really mean anything.

 

Then I grew up.

 

What a deal this guy is getting by being able to be with you without any real commitment. And maybe he can get you to live with him overseas too! You take all the risk and he gets all the benefits of marriage, without actually have to make the commitment of marriage! What a deal!

 

It used to be guys couldn't get away with that. But now, women are more willing to be with guys for 5 or 10 years and then get dumped when they are 45 years old for a new girl that is 25 or 30. And if kids are involved, no big deal, everyone has kids out of wedlock these days, so it must be ok.

 

The woman is the one taking all the risk of getting pregnant and having to raise kids. They guy can always walk away and wash his hands of the situation if he wants to. Or just pay child support from long distance.

 

If you think about it, the institution of marriage, historically, has been basically for the woman and for the kids. A woman has a lot more to lose by living with a guy and having kids with a guy, without being married, than the guy does.

 

You can talk all you want about it being possible to be totally committed to each other without being married, and how that piece of paper doesn't add anything to the committment or make it any more real or more important.

 

BULL SH*T!!!

 

If that's the case, why not just get married then, since it doesn't mean anything and is no big deal. Just walk on down to the city hall and get legally married.

 

It means a hell of a lot. It means you've made a promise to yourself, your spouse, your friends and family, to the public, and to God that you are going to stay together forever. It's a hell of a lot different than just making a casual committment to each other in private without getting married.

 

If I was a girl, I wouldn't move in and live with a guy unless he got engaged to me. I certainly wouldn't move overseas without being engaged, and probably not without being married.

 

But as I guy, I would be psyched if I had a girlfriend who would be willing to stay with me without me having to make any kind of real committment to her like getting married. What a deal!

 

I gotta completly disagree with you here. Marraige really is nothing more then a piece of paper and kind of an insurance policy for one partner if things go bad. It does not make either partner more or less likely to cheat. It does not mean that one person is gonna stay around forever. You said women are getting dumped when they are 45 by their men for women in their 20s? Well I am pretty sure married men are doing this just as much as non-married men. My boyfriend and I both share the same view on marriage and I promise you we are just as commited to each other as any married couple you see. If someone is really in love with their partner they will stay with them regardless of if they are married or not.

[norajane]

And there you are: some people believe marriage is just a piece of paper, and some people believe it is the strongest personal commitment two people can make, and the people that hold those views are equally strong in their beliefs.

 

It's a fundamental difference in core beliefs. That's why I think it's important that two people agree on the significance of marriage (or not) and its meaning in their lives. If you get two who disagree on it from the start, it can't work in the long run for either partner.