Some Q's for the women on here about confidence.

[lindya]

Defending myself against people being harsh towards me you mean, well, if it means that those particular people are going to be less inclined to give me advice aka 'stop whining', sarcasim, and whatever else, then I think that's a good thing.

 

I don't need to read through anything properly again.

 

 

Smoochie will now most probably post a response to keep this argument going. You said earlier on that you like to have the last word, and you're most certainly not alone in that.

 

If Smoochie does post something else that you find antagonistic, are you obligated to respond? Let's say that if you don't respond, Smoochie will think he's won the argument. Would the fact that he thought that make it true...or would it just be that you chose not to spend any time on something negative and unproductive?

[Ross_K]

Hi Ross,

 

I have read some of your posts and I find you to be very confident, and very attractive.

 

I think you just haven't found the right girl and that's all there is to it.

 

Some people just have it harder than others.

 

Ariadne

 

Thanks, you ain't too bad looking yourself.

 

The thing is, it's more than just not finding the right girl, I ain't found any girl.

[Ross_K]

Hi,

 

I guess I'm going to have to do some research on 'believing in yourself and inherent worth', so I can find out what they mean and whether I posess these two qualities.

 

This reminds me of an online friend of mine, someone that posted here under the name "fusangite" that had similar troubles. This is what he had to say about that:

 

------------

 

I know I have things to offer someone and he'll be lucky to have me.

 

It sounds like you have an objective theory of value. I need one of those. What I mean by that is: something is worth what people are willing to pay for it. In economics, the thing that creates value in a product is someone's willingness to pay for it. If nobody wants to buy it, the product is worthless, no matter how much it costs to manufacture. So, my theory of value is subjective -- value is defined by whether someone wants the thing, not the thing's intrinsic qualities.

 

In conclusion, reminding yourself that you have great things to offer someone and they'll be LUCKY to have you (not the other way around) should bring you confidence

 

People know what will make them happy, what they need and want better than I do. I have trouble believing something without any evidence. I have no evidence that I would be a valued addition to most women's lives. I admire people who can believe things without evidence but I'm not one of them. If I actually had the qualities that would make women lucky to be with me, they would notice this because they know what these qualities are better than I do. To be attractive is to attract others. I can't sustain the belief that I'm attractive if I don't attract anyone. My beliefs require an evidentiary grounding. If I could figure a way around this, I'm sure my life would improve.

 

If you can suggest any hints for how to structure my beliefs so that I believe myself to be attractive without evidence, I'm all ears. I've spent a fair bit of energy reading on this subject but I haven't had any luck so far. And I can't really understand why anyone would be lucky to be with someone they weren't even attracted to.

 

-------------

 

Ariadne

 

Hey Ariadne, is the writing in italics by fusangite, and the normal writing you replying to her or talking to me?

 

Hey,

 

The thing that gives me satisfaction is achieving something really hard in a video game, and that's it I think.

 

The thing that gives me satisfaction is watching the ducks at the park .

 

Ariadne

 

Lol, do you throw them bread and stuff?

[typical]

I'm sensing a 'Love Connection' here... where's Chuck Woolery when you need him?

 

 

Ross,

 

I am a girl, and I know these things. Some women dont like men that have no depth. I am trying to encourage you to involve (and evolve) yourself in something that will test your sense of self, to bring out the deeper side of who you really are-challenges have a refining effect on characters. Challenge yourself with something and quit worrying about when you will get a girlfriend. Those things come after, when you cultivate your sense of self.

 

You are 30 years old. Get going.

 

Is there a problem with any of the other things I have suggested to build your character:

 

*Join the army/navy/marines etc......

*get a job with the peace corp

*You can get a job working overseas for a year at a time that covers visas, rent, and pretty much anything else

* Get a job, period

[Ross_K]

Ross, you've had some really good suggestions. Ok, so maybe they haven't been worded in a way that is easy to accept for you, but hey, that's the joy of the internet. Maybe, instead of reacting defensively (which, just makes you look immature, sorry) you could take a step back and really think about the messages? No one is trying to do you down. At least in my opinion. It can be pretty hard at times, when you've been in a similar position to someone to not get frustrated by them when you know the answer and they are refusing to accept it. I'm sure you know where I'm coming from on this.

 

So, I know you've said that martial arts is a step too far at the moment, but I really feel that could be a huge help to you. Not only for feeling that you can handle any situation, physically, but for the mental and emotional aspect too. So, what is it that makes you feel it's too much for you?

 

 

Sticking up for yourself isn't immature, but I respect your opinion.

 

I have thought about the messages, but I'm not able to do a lot of the things that people have suggested right now, I'm sorry, you know, I don't mean to offend anyone.

 

I haven't said that martial arts was a step too far, I actually forgot to reply to that post.

 

I have thought about doing martial arts or kick boxing for a for a long time, I think it's something I'd enjoy, and yes, you guys are right, it probably would help with my confidence, which is somethign I never really thoguht about.

 

The thing is though the nearest martial arts place is about 17 miles away, I don't really feel up waiting around at bus stops and having to get 2 buses to travel that far, I know if I did try and go I'd probably only go about once or twice and then probably not bother again.

 

It's a place in Manchester city center, I remember seeing it when I used to live there, there's been quite a few world champions who've trained there. Once I get a car I'll look into going.

[Ariadne]

Hey,

 

Thanks, you ain't too bad looking yourself.

 

Thank you, but that picture is kind of old. I'm 39

 

The thing is, it's more than just not finding the right girl, I ain't found any girl.

 

Yeah, I know. And in my case, when I find I guy I like he doesn't like me back. Sigh.

 

But I think you have a lot of personality and I like the way you are. I don't understand when people give advice and then get mad because you don't do as they say. Including, move to America (it's cheaper here) and leave your mother and country home behind, join the army, go to therapy, and what not.

 

But finding that special someone is a pain. I don't know why is so hard.

 

Hey Ariadne, is the writing in italics by fusangite, and the normal writing you replying to her or talking to me?

 

No. That was fusangite talking to some girl (not me) that was trying to give him advice. He had long threads about how to gain confidence, his first post started like:

 

----------

Confidence Building Strategies

 

So, the single most common piece of advice to men on this forum is "be confident." That is, of course, because it is a self-evident truth that confidence is the single most important feature in attracting most women to most men; and, conversely, lack of confidence is the single most off-putting characteristic a man can have.

 

 

 

In my experience, men like me who lack confidence in dealing with women are more aware of the importance of confidence than anyone else. We think about this problem frequently. Yet, when we ask people for advice on how to be confident, the conversation goes something like this:

"You need to be confident."

"I know. Can you tell me how to be confident?"

"I don't think you understand: you won't be successful if you're not confident."

"I know. Can you tell me how to work on my confidence?"

"You just don't get it. If you don't learn how to be confident, you won't get anywhere."

"I know. That's why I would appreciate some advice on building my confidence."

"Women won't go out with guys who aren't confident, you know. You really have to work on your confidence."

"I know. That's why I am asking you for information on how to work on my confidence."

"Well, you have to believe in yourself."

"How?"

"You have to stop making excuses. If you don't learn to be confident, women won't go out with you."

etc.

I watch variants of this interaction play out again and again on forums like this and in conversations in day to day life. So, I'm wondering if sexually successful people on this forum can offer some practical tips here on how to acquire this confidence.

 

----------

 

So it kind of reminded me of your situation...

 

But, fusangite and I still write and he hasn't had a girlfriend in "10 years" so, you are not alone

 

Lol, do you throw them bread and stuff?

 

Yeah, sometimes. The big birds (like 3 feet tall) come and take the bread from your hand when you give them with their big beaks. They are not afraid

 

Ariadne

[Ross_K]

Ross Stop arguing with every one who has come to try to help you. You put yourself in a situation to be talked to in this way when you asked for advise. No one has put you down directly and all we have is the information you give us. With that said I know what its like to be horribly depressed I've suffered many horrible tragedies in my life I'm suprised I'm still alive some times really. The point is your not the only person with problems and maybe we'd feel more sympathy for you if you actualy couldnt do the things you want but you can, Girls say your avatar is attractive, You say you once had friends and a social life so if you did it once you can do it again.

 

I can't do the things I want right now.

 

And yeah, I know girls have said I'm attractive on my avatar, but photo's can be deceptive, I've got a lot of photos where I look totally different and ugly. So I honestly don't know if I do look attractive or not in real life.

 

Look just go out there and try something and post about it thats all. If you meet a girl on the net dont talk to her online to much just ask her to meet face to face for Tea or something right away. You need to humble yourself if you dont like my advise dont you dare insult me for trying to give it to you because its what I'd tell myself if I were in your situation. Let me tell you something about life it happens on a time scale so if things arent going so well now but they were when you were 26 years old draw power from those good times past ross had and take your wories of the future and say F them Future Ross can worry about that present ross just is going to enjoy life for a change.

 

It's really hard though.

 

I would take Karate or something if I were you theres some real life lessons there. So cmon Ross the next time you post on here I want to here some post about how you tried something new like said Hi to some girl who passed you in the street, or how you met one of these online girls you talk about for cofee in real life, or even that you went for a long walk outside and said excuse me when people stood right in your way.

 

Okay, I'll say hi to a stranger when I walk down the street. And report back here about it.

[SmoochieFace]

Smoochie will now most probably post a response to keep this argument going. You said earlier on that you like to have the last word, and you're most certainly not alone in that.

 

If Smoochie does post something else that you find antagonistic, are you obligated to respond? Let's say that if you don't respond, Smoochie will think he's won the argument. Would the fact that he thought that make it true...or would it just be that you chose not to spend any time on something negative and unproductive?

 

Fret not, lindya, I am not posting to Ross anymore. He believes he is right and everyone else is wrong. All of the advice he has been given apparently is **** ( ) and our experiences also don't mean **** so continuing on is a complete waste of time. However, I should think that if one person is being repeatedly told that he has an attitude problem and that he should consider changing it by twenty people then that one person should be able to take the hint. What say you on that?

 

Oh, and this isn't about 'winning'. This isn't a contest... at least not for yours truly.

 

Frankly, I've got better things to do. My GF is on her way down to my hutch and we're going to have a very pleasant weekend together full of moans, groans, and sighs in and out of the sack. Sweating, and loving, and just being happy.

[Ross_K]

Ross - you'd probably be best served by focusing on sites that can provide specialised information on anxiety and depression.

 

It's human nature to be resistant to change - even positive change. Therefore it's human nature to find excuses not to follow advice that would encourage such change. You need sessions with a counsellor who has the skill to guide you past that in a way that's manageable for you, rather than getting into arguments with posters who believe a bit of straight talking is the panacea for all psychological problems.

 

Despite all the good intentions, Loveshack can sometimes do a person in severe emotional difficulties far more harm than good. Some posters really want to help, but egos tend to get in the way - and they end up just ranting in frustration (and bonding with others who feel likewise) when their advice is rejected or ignored. This only reinforces your negative self image.

 

Fix up an appointment with your GP and tell him/her that you feel you require counselling as a matter of urgency. These threads will do nothing other than perpetuate your problems.

 

Thanks lindya

 

Those guys don't bother me that much, they can get pretty annoying, but I do get a lot of good out of these threads.

[Ariadne]

(Sorry Ross, I tried to go back to the post to Italize your quotes and it's not letting me edit it)

 

Ariadne

[Ross_K]

Ross,

Ok!! Everybody given you all the advice you need so It's time for you again to either sit down or up.Nobody isn't saying anything new here.

 

I am sitting up, and a lot of the things I can't do now, I can do when I'm ready/more able to, and I'm enjoying the conversation, apart from two particular people who are spoiling it.

[Ross_K]

Ross, you present your problems here and everyone assumes it's with a desire to solve them, so they suggest solutions. Some folks have put a lot of time and thought into those suggestions, and you've gotten some great ones.

 

Have you tried to impliment any of those suggestions?

 

Unless you do try at least a few of the ideas, folks are going to believe you're wasting their time.

 

Yes, I'll go and do some of the things now.

[Ross_K]

Look,

 

Not to be rude, but it just seems like you are a ho hum type of guy without any real depth of character. Get involved in something that really really tests your inner strength and character and gives you some dimension. Something that really refines and defines your character. Get some life experience, (and I dont mean girls) I mean true life experience and focus on things other than garbling on about girls that arent interested in you.

 

Here are some ideas that might build and define who you are:

 

*Join the army/navy/marines etc......

*get a job with the peace corp

*You can get a job working overseas for a year at a time that covers visas, rent, and pretty much anything else

* Get a job, period

 

Okay, I'll do all of them.

 

You seem intelligent enough, but you lack depth. Physically, you are attractive enough, but you lack definition.

 

Get yourself out of the country and start living...really really living. Get going.

 

What does lacking depth mean? That there isn't much to my personality? If that's the case I'm sorry but I have a lot of depth.

 

You think my body lacks definition? I think it's got quite a bit of definition to it.

 

I'd love to get out of the country but I don't know how to get to live in a country permenently.

[Ross_K]

I'm not trying to slander you again by using the word egotisim. To me, egotisim is when you focus TOO much on yourself and not enough on people around you. Clearly, you focus too much on how you are different than everyone else and not enough focus on how you are similar to everyone else. I believe this is the root cause of your social anxiety. You worry TOO much about how people perceive you, what you should say, how you should act. If you are like me, I'm also betting you rehearse over and over and over different situations in your head when you are alone. What if this or that should happen. How will you look and how should you respond. And this is probably why you also fear confrontation.

 

Yeah, some of that's true.

 

Walk wrote up an excellent post, and instead of drawing on her experience and asking yourself what is similar between the two of you, and if she can do it, surely you can do it, you automatically responded that you are not like her. How do you know you are not like her? She's telling you she has social anxiety. That's one similarity between the two of you. I bet you she can even tell you the fears she has and it might be similar to you. And if that's similar, then maybe what she tells herself to confront those fears, can also give you comfort.

 

I can't remember this, could you find the post for me please?

 

Waiting is not doing. Why is it taking so long for you to see a psychologist? I think it's important to take Lindya's advice and tell GP that's it's important that you see one right away. And if you are waiting due to government assistance to help pay for the service, then i think it's important to get some kind of temp job, any type of job, sweeping floors in solitude, anything, just to help speed the process along

 

I feel more comfortable taking things at my own pace, and I don't know why it's taking a long time to see one.

 

You only have one chance at life, and it's too precious to waste by waiting for things to happen.

 

I know I know.

[littlekitty]

Okay, I'll say hi to a stranger when I walk down the street. And report back here about it.

 

That one small move Ross... it could bring about many changes. Slowly but surely! Please do it! Do one small thing each week maybe to make a tiny change? I would say hello back if you said hello to me while passing in the street!

[Ross_K]

Look,

 

If nothing else, just take my advice. The world is overrun with mindless silly morons who babble on about nothing in particular. Is there nothing you can do to differentiate yourself from those type of people?

 

Since you are 30, you really should try to cultivate yourself, and develop some sort of depth to who you are.

 

Okay I'll take your advice.

[typical]

Okay, I'll do all of them.

 

I wasnt suggesting that you do "all" of them. I was giving you an idea of how to build some character. Is there something you find offensive with those ideas? Just that you dont find them as fun? Or they are a waste of time?

 

What does lacking depth mean? That there isn't much to my personality? If that's the case I'm sorry but I have a lot of depth.

 

Oh yes, and it shows....

 

You think my body lacks definition? I think it's got quite a bit of definition to it

 

Quit focusing on your body, Ross, I was talking about your mind. Theres that "depth" again.

 

I'd love to get out of the country but I don't know how to get to live in a country permenently.

 

There is a job search engine that is always looking for someone to go to China, and teach english, (and no, you dont have to speak chinese) for a year. They will take care of passports, visas, rent, transportation and food. You also get a paycheck. The only thing you have to do is be an english teacher for a year in exchange. I dont think its only China, though I see alot of job ads specifically for China.

[SmoochieFace]

That one small move Ross... it could bring about many changes. Slowly but surely! Please do it! Do one small thing each week maybe to make a tiny change? I would say hello back if you said hello to me while passing in the street!

 

Most people are not 'bad' and it's wrong to assume that everyone out there is 'bad'. I used to be the same way but it's amazing what a little CBT (that has been suggested to Ross before, BTW) can do to a person's attitude. Having a sense of humour never hurts as well.

[Ross_K]

Ross, you don't appear to want suggestions as to how to deal with your issue. You don't appear to want to listen to advice from those who have been in your shoes. So what do you want? What advice would you like us to give you?

 

What can we do to help you? Just sympathise and make no suggestions?

 

I made this topic originally to find some answers to the questions I had about confidence, now I've had the answers I can do some research to help myself.

 

The topic then went onto to me I think asking about how to deal with being given crap whenever I go out. Now, some people have made suggestion that I haven't been able to follow up on, but just even the mere fact of talking about it, and hearing that it might not really just be me has made me feel a lot better, and like I'd be able to cope with it better the next time I experience it.

 

I do appreciate the imput you guys have given me, so thanks, and I've just enjoyed talking with you all anyway.

[Ross_K]

Smoochie will now most probably post a response to keep this argument going. You said earlier on that you like to have the last word, and you're most certainly not alone in that.

 

If Smoochie does post something else that you find antagonistic, are you obligated to respond? Let's say that if you don't respond, Smoochie will think he's won the argument. Would the fact that he thought that make it true...or would it just be that you chose not to spend any time on something negative and unproductive?

 

I dunno really, I think winning the argument can be three things, either proving the other guy wrong, or making yourself look as though you're right and the other guy is wrong by twisting things even though you're wrong and the other guy is right, and the other person giving up whether they were right or wrong.

 

I don't really mind arguing to much, and it is hard for me to let it go and let the other person have the last word, I also find it quite entertaining a lot of the time, it just starts getting tiresome when it drags on and on.

[Ariadne]

looking for someone to go to China, and teach english, (and no, you dont have to speak chinese) for a year. They will take care of passports, visas, rent, transportation and food.

 

LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[littlekitty]

I made this topic originally to find some answers to the questions I had about confidence, now I've had the answers I can do some research to help myself.

 

The topic then went onto to me I think asking about how to deal with being given crap whenever I go out. Now, some people have made suggestion that I haven't been able to follow up on, but just even the mere fact of talking about it, and hearing that it might not really just be me has made me feel a lot better, and like I'd be able to cope with it better the next time I experience it.

 

I do appreciate the imput you guys have given me, so thanks, and I've just enjoyed talking with you all anyway.

 

That's good then! As long as you are getting something from people's efforts!

[Ross_K]

Hey,

 

Thanks, you ain't too bad looking yourself.

 

Thank you, but that picture is kind of old. I'm 39

 

I'm sure you still look great.

 

The thing is, it's more than just not finding the right girl, I ain't found any girl.

 

Yeah, I know. And in my case, when I find I guy I like he doesn't like me back. Sigh.

 

How come? You're nice looking and seem like a nice person.

 

But I think you have a lot of personality and I like the way you are. I don't understand when people give advice and then get mad because you don't do as they say. Including, move to America (it's cheaper here) and leave your mother and country home behind, join the army, go to therapy, and what not.

 

I know, I can't understand it either.

 

But finding that special someone is a pain. I don't know why is so hard.

 

I know I know. Offline women just don't seem to notice me, even to just get checked out a few times would be really nice.

 

So it kind of reminded me of your situation...

 

But, fusangite and I still write and he hasn't had a girlfriend in "10 years" so, you are not alone

 

Yeah I know. I think he's still lucky though, at least he knows it's possible for him to attract someone and it can happen again. I don't even have that.

 

Lol, do you throw them bread and stuff?

 

Yeah, sometimes. The big birds (like 3 feet tall) come and take the bread from your hand when you give them with their big beaks. They are not afraid

 

Ariadne

 

Lol, they sound crazy, what are they, Flamingos or something?

[Ross_K]

(Sorry Ross, I tried to go back to the post to Italize your quotes and it's not letting me edit it)

 

Ariadne

 

Lol, don't worry about it, it happens to me a lot of times when I've written a really big post.

 

It's frustrating, I don't know why they have that feature on here.

[Ross_K]

That one small move Ross... it could bring about many changes. Slowly but surely! Please do it! Do one small thing each week maybe to make a tiny change? I would say hello back if you said hello to me while passing in the street!

 

I just feel weird about doing it though.

 

I mean, an old woman saying hello to a stranger on the street she walks past looks pretty normal, but a much younger person doing it like me (I look about 21) is just gonna look weird.

 

Man, so many posts I keep having too reply to (not that I mind), I'm gonna soak in the tub now.

 

Be back later.