questions about marriage

[PWSX3]

Me & my wife are going thru a separation (you can read my post in Separation & divorce) and I am working at changing "me" but I do have questions and everyone has been such good help on this board so far that I would like some other opinions.

Both me & my wife moved from living with our parents to live with each other after we got married, I did spend two years at a Christian school so I did live in a dorm for those two years.

When the W moved out she said she needed her space and wanted time for herself. We are going to work on our relationship and we are both going to a counselor.

Here are my questions;

If we both learn to live on our own and do things by ourselves if/when we might get back together wouldn't it be more like just roomates then?

 

Since we have had a rocky relationship what is it like having a smooth relationship?

I know now our communication that we needed was not there and I see that is very important.

 

There are things that I know I need to work on and I am doing that and I know once I can do that it will help our relationship. I also have learned that it takes 100% from both sides and we haven't been doing that so if we do I don't know what that would be like.

 

I guess I would like suggestions of good marriages and things people do to make them special for both sides.

[Mz. Pixie]

I was married over 13 years the first time. In the early years and probably for about 8 or 9 years we had a fairly good marriage. Not perfect but good. I've been married over a year this time and I can tell you what I've come to learn from experience- and from reading books, counseling, and reading relationship forums.

 

From my perspective each marriage partner needs to find out what what their own, as well as their partners emotional needs are. Then they have to go about meeting the other person's most important needs. It's your responsibility to communicate your needs to your partner as well. There should be no "If they loved me they would know" because men and women are different and are not mind readers.

 

You put the other person before you put yourself- plain and simple.

 

Then, there must be communication and a sense of partnership. Coupled with honesty and committment. Divison of labor and common financial goals are helpful- and these should be looked at up front before you marry someone. Because if not, and they are too different you're going to do battle most of the time over things of this nature.

 

You should be balanced in your sexual drive too, as much as possible considering how different men and women are. That being said that means each partner must be upfront before marriage about what their expectations are in that area as well. If the sex drives are that much different then that's something that needs to be negotiated.

 

You need to be able to disagree effectively when you do have to fight. For instance- no name calling or hitting below the belt. Because once the argument is over- you may not be mad anymore- but those words linger forever. You can't ever take them back.

 

Earlier on in life I spent alot of time sweating the small stuff when in reality life is just too short for that. I'm much too busy raising my kids and running a household. I don't get upset about stupid things like the toothpaste cap being left off or the toilet seat up. Sure, there may be things that I really like done a certain way or that my partner likes done a certain way. If it's something that they really LIKE to be done a certain way then why not just do it to please your partner?? For instance, my husband likes his shirts hung a certain way on his side of the closet. Well, I couldn't care less about that kind of stuff but because he desires it to be that way, I do it. In other words you have to pick your battles. If it's something meaningful then of course, do say something, but if it's something that doesn't really matter in the scheme of things why not just let it go?? I'd much rather be enjoying my husband's company than arguing about how he left the toothpaste cap off again!

[JamesM]

Well said, Ms Pixie. I have very little to add.

 

Here is the only thing I will add....

If we both learn to live on our own and do things by ourselves if/when we might get back together wouldn't it be more like just roomates then?

 

From my understanding and reading on this Board, doesn't separation tend to make it more difficult for couples to work on their problems together? Doesn't this tend to push couples apart?

 

Maybe someone has a perspective on this.

[Touche]

Wow, excellent post Mz. Pixie. I completely agree with you. "Don't sweat the small stuff" and "pick your battles" have been my motto in this marriage and so far, knock on wood, it's worked!

 

As far as the OP's questions...no, if you can both do things independently it's NOT like being roomates because more than likely you will not both be doing the SAME things. You should both be contributing equally. But you'll both be contributing different things. That's what a good marriage is like in my book.

 

What is it like to have a smooth marriage? Well for one thing, you get along WAY more than you disagree. Sexually, you're compatible and satisfied. You can talk about anything and everything. Basically, you're married to your best friend and you will always, always be on each others' side.

[PWSX3]

I just finished reading His Needs, Her Needs and it says to write down all the choirs and give them numbers, then when you get to the ones that nobody wants the person with the higher number takes it. After our first time seeing the counselor we had chores because I didn't do much to help in the house and that is one of many[/b\ things that got me in trouble, I was more worried I was doing mine and she wasn't doing hers and of course when we talked about it we didn't do it in a correct way.

 

I have a lot to learn but with help from everyone here it's making me think and that is for me helpful.

 

You put the other person first before you put yourself first- plain and simple.

A friend told me this same thing and I would say I always would put myself first.

Before she moved out someone told me a saying that I am going to use as much as I can; If it doesn't directly relate to me LET IT GO! don't worry yourself about it and I've been doing that at work and it's nice to not worry about stuff that you really don't have to be in the middle of in the first place. If she wants to listen to a certain kind of music then that is up to you not to me to judge for an example.

 

JamesM, now this is what the W told me before she moved out and maybe it was just to get a way without any fighting, but she said she needed time to herself to do things for her, etc. She didn't want to be asked where she had been when she walked in the door or explain every place she had gone when she said she was going to the store.

She also has things that she can work on if she wants such as being more responsible with money and following thru on stuff but I can't worry about that because that is for her to do.

I have also read all that stuff on the board but I hope I am one of the lucky guys that makes this work and if it doesn't I'll hopefully be a good catch for someone else down the road.

 

We were suppose to see our counsoler this Thursday but she had a family emergancy, and her dad just past away 2 weeks ago so we are still going to be doing counsoling here but the W just wanted one month to get her head cleared. Yesterday was the first time I have talked to her in a month and that was just to tell her our appointment was cancelled and to see if I could get my son early for something I wanted to take him to, which we worked it very well.

Gunny told me to take it REAL SLOW and that is what I'm going to do because I really worked hard to push her away that's for sure. Now I can just show her by my actions that I'm changing.....

 

There is one other thing that I found on line that I printed out because it is very important and I never did this. I always looked to defend myself and that is;

When they do point out areas in your life where they hae been hurt by something you said or did; don't get defensive, even if you don't agree with what they are saying. Accept that fact that somehow it DID hurt them and find out why it hurt them.

When we go back into counsoling you know I'll be listening a lot better then I did before that's for sure.

[kulyok]

You put the other person before you put yourself- plain and simple.

 

No.

 

This is not how it works - or, rather, this is exactly how it does not work.

 

When you sacrifice myself for your partner, when you put his needs first, eventually you will feel resentment. And eventually you will feel that _your partner_ is guilty. In the end, you will blame him.

 

Compromises do not work; sacrifices do not work.

 

Causes do not work: it never works to find the cause of the quarrel, or hurt. A long talk of finding the causes or shuffling the past only brings more hurt and confusion.

 

The best you can do is ask your partner: "What do you feel?" and listen what they answer. In each moment of time you feel something is wrong.

 

From my perspective each marriage partner needs to find out what what their own, as well as their partners emotional needs are. Then they have to go about meeting the other person's most important needs.

 

I would paraphrase this:

 

Your partner is a part of you. When you want something - wash the dishes or sit in front of the TV, have a kid or not to have a kid, sleep late or get up early, go to Miami or to the Great Lakes for your vacation - you can decide for yourself, even if a part of you wants the opposite: like going for a steady job with low income, or for a risky one with high profits.

 

You know yourself. You feel yourself. Thus, you know what you want and can make a decision.

 

Your partner is a part of yourself. He(she) is yourself, too. Feel what he feels - ask him what he feels, do your best to feel him. Imagine he is a glove, and you are a hand - try him on.

 

If you can work out things with yourself, you can work out things with your partner. Because he is you, too.

 

This is the only way it works.

[Mz. Pixie]

No.

 

This is not how it works - or, rather, this is exactly how it does not work.

 

When you sacrifice myself for your partner, when you put his needs first, eventually you will feel resentment. And eventually you will feel that _your partner_ is guilty. In the end, you will blame him.

 

Compromises do not work; sacrifices do not work.

 

Ummmm, okay, so millions of books and marriage counselors are wrong???

[Guest]

When you sacrifice myself for your partner, when you put his needs first, eventually you will feel resentment. And eventually you will feel that _your partner_ is guilty. In the end, you will blame him.

 

That only happens if you're dumb enough to find and keep a selfish person in your life. If BOTH of you are putting each other first, clearly you will both benefit.

 

Causes do not work: it never works to find the cause of the quarrel, or hurt. A long talk of finding the causes or shuffling the past only brings more hurt and confusion.

Then you're not finding the real causes. Usually people are angry because they feel neglected or somehow wronged. Your job is to get at the reasons your partner feels wronged or neglected. And as Pixie said, it's often about unmet needs.

 

The best you can do is ask your partner: "What do you feel?" and listen what they answer. In each moment of time you feel something is wrong.

 

Your partner is a part of yourself. He(she) is yourself, too. Feel what he feels - ask him what he feels, do your best to feel him. Imagine he is a glove, and you are a hand - try him on.

 

Very few people are able to successfully put themselves in others' places and understand others' perspectives that way. If more people could do that, this would be a much better world.

[kulyok]

Ummmm, okay, so millions of books and marriage counselors are wrong???

 

Yes, if they state that one partner should put the other before himself, and sacrifice.

 

I haven't seen a single relationship book that tells these things, though. Nor a certified professional, from NLP engineers to family specialists. From Barbara(who states exactly the opposite) to "Five Languages" to "Mars and Venus" to Kozlov's books.

 

Then you're not finding the real causes. Usually people are angry because they feel neglected or somehow wronged. Your job is to get at the reasons your partner feels wronged or neglected. And as Pixie said, it's often about unmet needs.

 

Indeed, your points seem very logical. I myself once thought this way.

It does not exclude the fact, however: causes do not work. I cannot know what my partner thinks - he may be telling me one thing, like "you never wash the dishes", but his resentment may steam from the other, like "I haven't forgotten the way you talked to that guy and neglested me".

A simple example.

 

I would agree that two mentally healthy and mature people only benefit from being as open with each other as they can be, though.

 

Very few people are able to successfully put themselves in others' places and understand others' perspectives that way. If more people could do that, this would be a much better world.

 

Touche. Absolutely. That's the key.

[Mz. Pixie]

It's funny you should mention Barbara and books by John Gray- because I just saw a post yesterday either on this board or another that says she's been married like 6 times and that his diploma was obtained from a school that was shut down for being a diploma mill.

[kulyok]

It's funny you should mention Barbara and books by John Gray- because I just saw a post yesterday either on this board or another that says she's been married like 6 times and that his diploma was obtained from a school that was shut down for being a diploma mill.

 

Yes, I heard. And Kozlov(Russian guy, same specialization) had three wives abandoning him, although for the last ten years he's been happy. Quite, quite.

 

(Heck, our own president was caught plagiarizing his diploma. And, ahem, asking young girls out - and he's married.)

 

These are just examples, though. Good and bad examples - each cause is individual, I think. I wouldn't agree with everything they say, either -to me, Barbara concentrates too much on pleasing the guy, and "Five Languages" - on negotiating, which I don't really appreciate. But anyway:

 

It is like democracy - it doesn't sound perfect, and it sounds difficult, and sometimes controversial, but they just haven't invented anything better.

 

I think.