So if a guy is

[Gunny376]

A decent guy, doesn't gamble, doesn't do drugs, isn't an alcholic, doesn't run around on his wife, isn't on drugs, goes to work everyday, dosren't put his own interest in hunting, fishing, other hobbies and male friends before his wife, puts a roof over her head, provides her with medical and dental coverage, food in her mouth, a roof over her head, a bed to sleep in, clothes to wear, not to mention jewelry on her neck, fingers, and wrist and ankles ~ is what an azzhat?

 

I can't figure this equation out?

[Pyro]

A decent guy, doesn't gamble, doesn't do drugs, isn't an alcholic, doesn't run around on his wife, isn't on drugs, goes to work everyday, dosren't put his own interest in hunting, fishing, other hobbies and male friends before his wife, puts a roof over her head, provides her with medical and dental coverage, food in her mouth, a roof over her head, a bed to sleep in, clothes to wear, not to mention jewelry on her neck, fingers, and wrist and ankles ~ is what an azzhat?

 

I can't figure this equation out?

 

What is an azzhat?

[Woggle]

Yeah but was he infringing on her true actualized identity forcing her to find herself and spread her wings with other men? Guys who do that are such jerks.

[average female]

Because only in economics will supplying goods and service give you a predictable return. You already know that you can give till it hurts and never get anything back. Look at it from a business point of view, since guys seem to relate better to that- Your current rate of return on your investment sucks and you should stow your assets elsewhere. Shop around!

[CryingCanuck]

Guns, are you talking about me?

 

Actually something weird, I had a new friend over to the house last night ( totally innocent and will remain that ) She meet the boys, we chit chat and stuff, she comes out with " is your EX nuts? are you a closet abuser or something? This house has everything, it's fabulous.... What was she thinking giving all this up?

 

Who knows what goes through the minds of others eh? What some take for granted others will kill for. All I told her is " It's just stuff, nothing that means anything" But last night after she left, I looked around the house, all the momentos, and the pictures and things we have acquired over the years and I was sad..... Memories that really in some ways were maybe lies......

 

Thanks for bringing up the subject Guns.....

[Gunny376]

Forgot to mention, didn't physically abuse her, went to marriage couseling, made Barnes and Nobles rich buying self help books, gutted himslef inside out trying to fix things and make them right

 

Anyone care to add to the list, feel free to do so.

[dgiirl]

I donno Gunny. I think it's more complex than that. My exh strongly believe's "he treated me like a queen" His exact words. Yes, he did not abuse me, he did not drink, he did not gamble, and he bought me chocolate. He did all the cooking and yard work. Did we spend personal time together? Not unless it was something he wanted to do. If I suggested something to do, it was lame. If his friend suggested the exact same thing, it was cool. All of our vacations have been spent with other friends. He always played devil's advocat and took everyone else's side before mine. He made me feel really inadequate about a lot of things. Made me feel really guilty or ashamed if I ever got angry. I wasnt generous enough, kind enough, cool enough, thankful enough, considerate enough. I always had to weigh my words properly because I would "hurt" people. I was usually the last person to know what was happening in his life. I was often embarrassed because his mother would ask me how such and such went for him and I had no clue what such and such was! He would make plans with friends and family for us without even asking me ahead of time if I wanted to go, and often wouldnt tell me until the day of the event. He spent every night in front of the computer playing games and not once did I ever complain or nag about it. Romantic gifts? None that I recall. Once in a while he'd buy me a chocolate bar. Not a box of chocolates, nothing cute or fuzzy, no flowers, and he once bought me one necklace after I cried about not having any jewlery for months. And the first time I bought lingerie for his bday, he told me i was selfish for buying myself clothes. But he strongly believes he treated me like a queen, and not once ever appologized for the treatment. I'm just saying it's a lot more complex. I know I didnt treat my ex very well either. I took the relationship for granted, and there are so many things i could have done better. But at the same time, I did a lot of things really well too. I didnt treat him like a king, but man if he treated me like a queen, if he treated me the best I'll ever get from any other guy, well, I'd rather be alone.

[Gunny376]

" It's just stuff, nothing that means anything"

 

 

Yea! S-LOL! (Sorrowful LOL) About the time I went through it, Vince Gill cut the song "When I Call Your Name!" Still tears me up.

[a4a]

A decent guy, doesn't gamble, doesn't do drugs, isn't an alcholic, doesn't run around on his wife, isn't on drugs, goes to work everyday, dosren't put his own interest in hunting, fishing, other hobbies and male friends before his wife, puts a roof over her head, provides her with medical and dental coverage, food in her mouth, a roof over her head, a bed to sleep in, clothes to wear, not to mention jewelry on her neck, fingers, and wrist and ankles ~ is what an azzhat?

 

I can't figure this equation out?

 

 

Well from this post you could say she is kept like a pet. With a good owner.

Not all women need or desire these things. Or think of them as "overwhelming gifts from a man"....... many of us are quite capable of having all of these things on our own.

 

Feeds her regularly, takes her to the vet, she has a comfy bed in the corner, nice soft collar with matching lead, comes home straight after work to let her out, makes enough money to even send her to the groomer, never beats her (even if he gets super really mad if she pee pees on the floor)........

 

A decent guy, doesn't gamble, doesn't do drugs, isn't an alcholic, doesn't run around on his wife, isn't on drugs, goes to work everyday, doesn't put his own interest in hunting, fishing, other hobbies and male friends before his wife,

 

This describes my H to a T. It is not enough, those things should simply be a given. No big gold stars for those things. I expect and demand those thing and do not think of them as a gift but as a normal expectation. He has the same expectations of me. That is just normal marital decency.

 

Being "kept well" is not enough for some women. (keep in mind that I am not kept and would not like to be treated kept, like a pet anyway)

[Gunny376]

Hush DGril! You're the exception! You're different and special!

[a4a]

add hired a dog trainer, bought lots of dog training books. Tolerated her constant house soiling and her chewing up his favorite things....

[Gunny376]

Forgot to give you ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :bunny: :bunny: :bunny: :bunny:

[a4a]

Did we spend personal time together? Not unless it was something he wanted to do.

 

He always played devil's advocat and took everyone else's side before mine. He made me feel really inadequate about a lot of things. Made me feel really guilty or ashamed if I ever got angry. I wasnt generous enough, kind enough, cool enough, thankful enough, considerate enough. I always had to weigh my words properly because I would "hurt" people. I was usually the last person to know what was happening in his life. I was often embarrassed because his mother would ask me how such and such went for him and I had no clue what such and such was! He would make plans with friends and family for us without even asking me ahead of time if I wanted to go, and often wouldnt tell me until the day of the event. He spent every night in front of the computer playing games and not once did I ever complain or nag about it. Romantic gifts? None that I recall. Once in a while he'd buy me a chocolate bar. Not a box of chocolates, nothing cute or fuzzy, no flowers, and he once bought me one necklace after I cried about not having any jewlery for months. And the first time I bought lingerie for his bday, he told me i was selfish for buying myself clothes. But he strongly believes he treated me like a queen, and not once ever appologized for the treatment. I'm just saying it's a lot more complex. I know I didnt treat my ex very well either. I took the relationship for granted, and there are so many things i could have done better. But at the same time, I did a lot of things really well too. I didnt treat him like a king, but man if he treated me like a queen, if he treated me the best I'll ever get from any other guy, well, I'd rather be alone.

 

 

You made quite a list here. I wonder how many men actually think they are treating their wives like queens but instead are treating them like kept children.

 

In their perception everything looks peachy..... they are not taking the time to ask or to try to get to know what their spouse needs....... they think providing physical things is enough because perhaps that is what they enjoy/ appreciate?

[PWSX3]

Dgiirl said it pretty well.

Now you all know I'm new at this but this is how I feel now after reading a few of those books Gunny is talking about.

I thought "I" was a good husband, I did great dates for the W but she felt like I was doing them for me (which I think some of it was) because then everyone would say; wow I wish my husband would do that for me.

I spent time with her one on one but I didn't give her my full attention. I would give her flowers just for the heck of it, but then she would buy something new for herself and I would ask; why did you buy that we don't have the money so the flowers didn't mean anything nor did the other 2 or 3 things I did nice for her because I said something mean that she remembered.

I am reading the 5 languages of love right now and like it says you have to find what makes your spouse happy and it could be as easy as setting and talking and all those material things mean nothing to them even though everyone else thinks they are so wonderful.

 

I will use Pete Rose as a example, he was a very good baseball player yet everyone will remember him for the one thing he did "BAD" and know one will remember him for the good things he did.

 

You can do all the nice things you want but it's the hurt things you do that they will remember.

 

Just like CC I thought you were talking about me because I used to do all those things for the W, but what I didn't do is meet her needs that made her happy and that is to let her be herself.

 

That is my .02 as I see things at this time, now ask me again in another month and I might have a different view on it.

[a4a]

P you got it!

 

Well you are a good way there.

 

Amazing you are not defensive at all........ so many men cannot put their pride aside and shout "I did it all for you, but you did not even appreciate me"

 

What is my H going to appreciate more :

 

That I washed his socks last night or that I gave him a surprise BJ?

 

:lmao:

 

But if he leaves me because he did not give him enough BJ's to meet his desires I can scream "I washed your socks you bastard!"

[Woggle]

a4a does have a point but some women you can never make happy. You bend over backwards doing everything you can to make her happy and it is still not enough. That is why my mentality is I am the way I am and a woman can take it or leave it. I am still willing to make the woman in my life happy but I am not twisting myself into a pretzel for an unpleasable woman.

[a4a]

a4a does have a point but some women you can never make happy. You bend over backwards doing everything you can to make her happy and it is still not enough. That is why my mentality is I am the way I am and a woman can take it or leave it. I am still willing to make the woman in my life happy but I am not twisting myself into a pretzel for an unpleasable woman.

 

That would be a basic compatability issue. Not a matter of making one happy or not by fulfilling the spouses desires and needs.

 

You go to strip bars and think it is ok........ so we would never see eye to eye. That is one of the things that you feel is your right to do so. Not compatible. Different morals.

 

 

Nor could I marry a diehard religious zealot....... deal breaker and cannot expect him to change.

 

Nobody needs to change their morals or principles nor should have to for their partner. Unfortunatley many men and women think their spouse should.

 

Lack of communication and knowing what makes your spouse happy are a different ball game.

[Woggle]

That would be a basic compatability issue. Not a matter of making one happy or not by fulfilling the spouses desires and needs.

 

You go to strip bars and think it is ok........ so we would never see eye to eye. That is one of the things that you feel is your right to do so. Not compatible. Different morals.

 

 

Nor could I marry a diehard religious zealot....... deal breaker and cannot expect him to change.

 

Nobody needs to change their morals or principles nor should have to for their partner. Unfortunatley many men and women think their spouse should.

 

Lack of communication and knowing what makes your spouse happy are a different ball game.

 

Shouldn't these issues be sorted out before a couple gets married? Many times people want to change their partners after the fact and that is when problems arise. I am no religious fanatic and I would not have married one but I would never marry a devout religious woman and expect her to change her views for me. As for the original topic a woman usually shows signs before marriage that she will be a spoiled princess who can never be happy and men need to take these signs seriously.

[a4a]

Shouldn't these issues be sorted out before a couple gets married? Many times people want to change their partners after the fact and that is when problems arise. I am no religious fanatic and I would not have married one but I would never marry a devout religious woman and expect her to change her views for me. As for the original topic a woman usually shows signs before marriage that she will be a spoiled princess who can never be happy and men need to take these signs seriously.

 

Sure they should be dealbreakers to not get married but many people think the other will change...... (some magical ingredient in a wedding cake does this I think)

 

Like I said that is a different ball game though than not knowing how, or having the skills to make your spouse happy if you are indeed compatible. It is kinda like lacking empathy in a way. Perhaps "empathy" should be a required course in high school?

 

As you bolded perhaps you should try it as an exercise to not use women as an example for evil so much Try a man or a woman shows signs that they are set in their ways and should take those signs seriously...... or: like a man who uses hookers or goes to strippers will most likely not change after eating the wedding cake.

[amaysngrace]

Like I said that is a different ball game though than not knowing how, or having the skills to make your spouse happy if you are indeed compatible. It is kinda like lacking empathy in a way. Perhaps "empathy" should be a required course in high school?

 

 

 

Right on, a4a. I think too often people harbor resentment towards their spouse, and in their spouse's time of need if one ever arises, they bail on them emotionally rather than help them see it through. If you focus on what's wrong w/ the relationship instead of what's right, this is a real easy pattern to fall into.

 

They become resentful and selfish with keeping score, instead of a loving and empathetic couple.

 

I think forgiveness is essential to maintaining a good relationship.

[Mz. Pixie]

I think it's more complex than that. My exh strongly believe's "he treated me like a queen" His exact words. Yes, he did not abuse me, he did not drink, he did not gamble, and he bought me chocolate.

 

I so agree Dgirl. My ex probably thinks that he treated me like a queen too. :sick:

 

But he did have that "hunting and fishing thing" that kept him away from home 40 weekends out of the year.

 

And there were all those pesky times like when my mom was dying and it just "wasn't a good time for him" to pick up our child from daycare.

 

And there were several times when I cried and asked him for marriage counseling and he said we didn't have any problems.

 

The excuse that he didn't drink or do drugs or run around with women (that i know of) just didn't hold alot of water with me either. Because hell, I didn't do those things either and I never once threw that up in HIS face. So, why was it a good excuse for him?? I never once said "Well, I don't drink or do drugs or chase other men or hit the bars" as an excuse for not working on my marriage. Those are EXPECTED things and if a woman settles for less than that from a man that's her problem, but not me. I want more from a partner than that.

 

We did have nice material things no doubt- but what I didn't have that I wanted was a real relationship and partnership with my husband.

 

What I wanted was for him to carry the weight every now and then and not expect me to take care of everything all of the time. I needed him to take care of me every once in a while. What I wanted instead of all of the things we had was for him to say "You know baby, let me handle that, you have enough on your plate. Why don't you go get yourself a bath and go to bed early and let me handle this"

 

What I wanted was for him to give me some affection- kisses and caresses- instead of coming home from being gone all weekend. I'd spent all weekend with the kids, working on the house and taking care of them. He'd come home and I'd be ready to collapse on Sunday night and he'd say "How about we knock off a piece?"

 

He was and is a nice guy- deep down. He was just too selfish to give me what I needed for our marriage to survive. Even though I was very very specific in telling him my wants and needs and desires. He just didn't care about them. I didn't want to hear "I love you" so much as I needed his actions to reflect that he loved me. And his never did.

 

So, yeah, there are good men out there that get crapped on. But there are good women out there that get crapped on too.

[a4a]

Right on, a4a. I think too often people harbor resentment towards their spouse, and in their spouse's time of need if one ever arises, they bail on them emotionally rather than help them see it through. If you focus on what's wrong w/ the relationship instead of what's right, this is a real easy pattern to fall into.

 

They become resentful and selfish with keeping score, instead of a loving and empathetic couple.

 

I think forgiveness is essential to maintaining a good relationship.

 

Yes true but it has to be a two way street. It is quite hard when only one partner is filling the others needs and really trying and the other is totally clueless and the hows or whys of trying to do this as well.

 

My M was a prime example of this. Better but far far from perfect still.

 

I have come to learn that it was based in ignorance on his part and not selfishness...... I have forgiven but I will not tolerate status quo because he is now fully aware and no longer can ignorance be an excuse.

[a4a]

I

The excuse that he didn't drink or do drugs or run around with women (that i know of) just didn't hold alot of water with me either. Because hell, I didn't do those things either and I never once threw that up in HIS face. So, why was it a good excuse for him?? I never once said "Well, I don't drink or do drugs or chase other men or hit the bars"

 

 

:lmao: I sure throw that in my H's face

 

obviously you should be labeled as having outrageous expectations of your SO!!!!

:lmao:

 

I tried something funny last night..... and it worked. I said to the H "you are the most important person in the world to me" and ya know he went goo goo nutso. So I found something that makes him happy besides me always telling him how great he is and doing numerous things for him.

 

Now the trick is teaching him how to make me feel goo goo for him.

 

I am starting to think that many people just have low standards on how they should treat their spouses. A little bit is enough.

[amaysngrace]

Yes true but it has to be a two way street. It is quite hard when only one partner is filling the others needs and really trying and the other is totally clueless and the hows or whys of trying to do this as well.

 

 

True that! But I think constant forgiveness is required, pretty much treating each other as they'd like to be treated.

 

I think it's the best chance to make it work, but it has to be practiced from day one. Otherwise resentment forms and it's all down-hill from there. Because if one person has resentment, the other will acquire it as a defense tactic. It's a bad cycle to get into, yet it seems so easy to fall into this trap.

 

It also is a bad thing if one partner depends too much on the other for meeting needs they are able to meet on their own. Personal responsibility is important as well. Lacking it is what makes people needy, clingy and selfish IMO.

[a4a]

 

It also is a bad thing if one partner depends too much on the other for meeting needs they are able to meet on their own. Personal responsibility is important as well. Lacking it is what makes people needy, clingy and selfish IMO.

 

 

 

 

But I think some people are more takers and do not realize it. They are so unaware of their own behavior and take it for the norm that they are shocked to have it put in their face it is not what the other person desires.

 

There is a huge difference between being needy and clingy and having a partner that treats you in a manner that pleases you and makes you want them in your life.

Your job is to find a way to make your partner want to be with you.

 

This "take me as I am" is fine for morals and principles but to maintain a relationship you best be putting something on the table often that makes them want to be with you. You may have to work to switch it up from time to time or make it a little better and a little more grand from time to time... but you should want to do/choose this. If you do not, well IMHO you don't really care if that person comes or goes out of your life or not.

 

 

You are with the person because of how they make you feel...... look at the affair threads. Take that for granted or ignore it and your R is going to go down the drain quickly.