So if a guy is

[PWSX3]

Yes true but it has to be a two way street. It is quite hard when only one partner is filling the others needs and really trying and the other is totally clueless and the hows or whys of trying to do this as well.

 

My M was a prime example of this. Better but far far from perfect still.

 

I have come to learn that it was based in ignorance on his part and not selfishness...... I have forgiven but I will not tolerate status quo because he is now fully aware and no longer can ignorance be an excuse.

 

I fall into this catagory, the W was trying and I just didn't see it. After what I have been reading I see things she could also work on but I feel it is just the circle we were in, I ed her off she wouldn't do nice things for me, which made me mad again and then I wouldn't do nice things for her.

I do have to say because she didn't tell me some of the things that bothered her I didn't know what I was doing wrong, but now I do see it so if I do it again like a4a says if I do it again that is not right.....

 

I am learning the talk, now I just need to learn the walk the walk!!!! That will be the HARD PART!!!! for me

[Woggle]

Another thing is some women will stay with a man through all types of abuse, cheating and horrible things then when she gets involved with a normal and functional man she starts picking at all these tiny little things until one day she leaves for some vague reason. Do some women just need drama in their lives to feel comfortable?

[a4a]

I fall into this catagory, the W was trying and I just didn't see it. After what I have been reading I see things she could also work on but I feel it is just the circle we were in, I ed her off she wouldn't do nice things for me, which made me mad again and then I wouldn't do nice things for her.

I do have to say because she didn't tell me some of the things that bothered her I didn't know what I was doing wrong, but now I do see it so if I do it again like a4a says if I do it again that is not right.....

 

I am learning the talk, now I just need to learn the walk the walk!!!! That will be the HARD PART!!!! for me

 

 

P my H is in your shoes too. However he did not come with the same issues as you, nor am I one to keep my mouth shut like your wife. I am blunt and don't hide a thing He is learning and just at the edge of seeing the light. Now it is time for him to take action just like you.

 

 

 

- you know what, if for some reason my own M/R does not work at least I know that I am helping him to make his next one better. I will come out better too because of working on ours. That is the reality of would could happen........ this fantasy BS of forever and castles does not make a M work.

[amaysngrace]

Do some women just need drama in their lives to feel comfortable?

 

 

This statement could apply to men as well, Woggle. Just take a look at all the men who choose to have an extramarital affair, or pursue women while they're married, for that matter.

 

They like drama too, IMO.

[Woggle]

This statement could apply to men as well, Woggle. Just take a look at all the men who choose to have an extramarital affair, or pursue women while they're married, for that matter.

 

They like drama too, IMO.

 

I do not condone cheating at all but many of these men cheating are having problems at home. It doesn't excuse it but often it is an escape from drama.

[Lor]

Yea! S-LOL! (Sorrowful LOL) About the time I went through it, Vince Gill cut the song "When I Call Your Name!" Still tears me up.

 

 

Gotta hear the Kenny Roger's song "Buy me a rose" and then you'll understand that it takes more than a fancy house, 4 car garage, diamonds on the fingers, credit cards--paid every month!!--nanny for the kids....

 

When I was married to the first ex and feeling stifled, I said I wanted to go to Nashville by myself since I'd never been anywhere by myself. So....he booked the hotel for me, printed out directions, made sure I had all my stuff packed, called me when I got there.....

 

.....I stayed one night, went and had breakfast and drove back home. why? cuz it wasn't my vacation--it was his.

[a4a]

Another thing is some women will stay with a man through all types of abuse, cheating and horrible things then when she gets involved with a normal and functional man she starts picking at all these tiny little things until one day she leaves for some vague reason. Do some women just need drama in their lives to feel comfortable?

 

Maybe to her it is not such a vague reason.

 

Now again with the underlined you are belittling women again kinda.

 

But maybe a woman acts out in a dramatic fashion out of pure frustration with a man?

 

See Wog every women is different, and every man is different. So you really cannot place such broad generalizations on them and expect an answer that is truthful for all women.

 

Yes all women are big fat drama queens and all men wank to porn and want to screw their wives mothers......... see it just will not work.

 

What I want and what other women want may be two very different things. So I cannot speak for all women and other women can not say what I want either...... we are different.

 

All men are pigs and would take a BJ from a good looking women if they had the chance and their wife would never find out.......... NO not true. Some yes not all. So men are individuals too.

 

Continues questions about WHY DO THEY DO THAT really probably goes straight back to your mom issues again. I am so glad for you at really tackling that personal demon tho!!! :)

[Woggle]

Maybe to her it is not such a vague reason.

 

Now again with the underlined you are belittling women again kinda.

 

But maybe a woman acts out in a dramatic fashion out of pure frustration with a man?

 

See Wog every women is different, and every man is different. So you really cannot place such broad generalizations on them and expect an answer that is truthful for all women.

 

Yes all women are big fat drama queens and all men wank to porn and want to screw their wives mothers......... see it just will not work.

 

What I want and what other women want may be two very different things. So I cannot speak for all women and other women can not say what I want either...... we are different.

 

All men are pigs and would take a BJ from a good looking women if they had the chance and their wife would never find out.......... NO not true. Some yes not all. So men are individuals too.

 

Continues questions about WHY DO THEY DO THAT really probably goes straight back to your mom issues again. I am so glad for you at really tackling that personal demon tho!!! :)

 

I know you can't judge an entire gender as being a certain way but this hapens too often for there not to be some sort of pattern. I don't think women are naturally some sort of way any more than men are but people in general tend to be sheep in our society and woman follow the find yourself stuff just like men follow tend to follow a certain pattern.

[a4a]

I know you can't judge an entire gender as being a certain way but this hapens too often for there not to be some sort of pattern. I don't think women are naturally some sort of way any more than men are but people in general tend to be sheep in our society and woman follow the find yourself stuff just like men follow tend to follow a certain pattern.

 

A pattern can be in an individual life for sure. Cause and effect sorta crap.

 

But I don't think that you can put a broad pattern generalization on abused women that reject nice guys...... they may like bad boys, they may be trying to relive their own childhood abuse looking for closure on that..wash and repeat cycle, the guy may suck in bed, he may smell........ just too much possibility to take into consideration unless you look at an individual case to try to say women leave good guys because of being in a previously abusive relationship.

 

I have had one abusive R...... I left him, but it did not make me want to leave others that were nice guys. Lack on their part to meet my needs was the cause to make me want to leave, not their lack of abuse.

[Lor]

Women who have been in abusive relationships tend to lack self-esteem and, if they aren't careful, get sucked right back into another abusive relationship. In a way, that's all they think they deserve. It isn't until they can fully "forgive"--for lack of a better term--their own guilt and feeling that in some way its deserved that they can appreciate a good man.

 

And you don't have to be physically abused to be able to appreciate a good man when you find one. emotional abuse, neglect, disrespect from a SO will do quite a bit of damage, too. My 1st H used to tell me I was a horrible cook so I never did. My 2nd appreciated my cooking (he wasn't much of one) and my BIL would eat anything put in front him and ask for seconds. I am now a very good cook, only setting off the smoke detector occassionally.

 

A4A, you have such a way with words! You crack me up everytime! I did wash the damn socks but all I heard was about not enough BJ!!

[Mz. Pixie]

Well you know A- I realigned my wants and desires after I left my ex. Because I was going to make damn sure that I got what I deserved the second time around.

 

This is what my H did too. He didn't want to settle, he wanted the whole package.

 

I'm glad the little exercise with your H worked. That's kind of how I tried to perk up my first marriage. I just continually was the giver until my taker busted out and took control.

 

It seems like P is learning alot and that's awesome!

[a4a]

Well you know A- I realigned my wants and desires after I left my ex. Because I was going to make damn sure that I got what I deserved the second time around.

 

This is what my H did too. He didn't want to settle, he wanted the whole package.

 

I'm glad the little exercise with your H worked. That's kind of how I tried to perk up my first marriage. I just continually was the giver until my taker busted out and took control.

 

It seems like P is learning alot and that's awesome!

 

 

I am too old to put up with crap. I can be quite content on my own. I don't need to be in a R, I choose to and if I am going to be in one it will suit me.

His choice now. Boy oh boy I did not realize how much I gave and how little of what I want and need I got.

 

Asked the H again "are you happy".....he says Hell YES! So now it is his turn to do his part righto?

 

Or I stick him in the head with a fork.

[Moose]

This describes my H to a T. It is not enough, those things should simply be a given. No big gold stars for those things. I expect and demand those thing and do not think of them as a gift but as a normal expectation. He has the same expectations of me. That is just normal marital decency.

I'm glad this works for you two....but it wouldn't fly 2 feet in my house....(not that it matters)

 

"Normal marital decency", should be a two way street, agreed?

 

Let me ask you this then, if you expect and demand these things from him, what is he allowed to expect and demand from you? (That is if you even grant him such a right. )

[a4a]

I'm glad this works for you two....but it wouldn't fly 2 feet in my house....(not that it matters)

 

"Normal marital decency", should be a two way street, agreed?

 

Let me ask you this then, if you expect and demand these things from him, what is he allowed to expect and demand from you? (That is if you even grant him such a right. )

 

:lmao: Moose you don't quit do you

 

I treat him very well and always strive to improve and keep him happy. I will not settle for good enough and I do not want him to ever settle for good enough. Being a martyr is just stupid.

 

What is it Moose you cannot stand a woman who knows what she wants and is able to live happily with or without a man. Control/power issues Moose?

 

I don't know Moose I think you are jealous a bit or something. Why do you find the need to attempt to belittle me so much?

 

and ya know my H is very happy with me, so I must be doing something right.

 

maybe not what you would like but it is apparently what he likes.

 

and there is no granting..... I ask him what will or will not make him happy. I do not just assume things.

 

Geeze oh petes...... ya cannot help yourself can ya? Gotta postie post and attempt to cut me up......... But why?? really, why?

 

I love you too. :love:

 

I gotta wonder tho if your own wife is not so chalk full of resentment and saddness that she just has not folded under your ways.

 

Your kinda a meanie. At least here, and you have the sense of humor of a stump...... lighten up dude. (yawn)

 

You keep coming here to defend my H who is happy....... why?? It is I that am or was not so happy with him. ONE LAST TIME MY HUSBAND IS HAPPY IN OUR MARRIAGE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF HIM NOT TREATING ME THE WAY HE SHOULD......HIS WORDS! sheesh :rolleyes:

 

DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?

 

Very odd indeed this constant need to attempt to spar with me....... why? To prove that your thinking is the only way people should think? That is arrogant and narrow minded if true.

[Moose]

Don't flatter yourself......

[SmoochieFace]

Very odd indeed this constant need to attempt to spar with me....... why? To prove that your thinking is the only way people should think?

 

Nope. He's got a massive bulge in his pants over you.

 

Moose, over there, please. Hop into the cold shower. Now.

[dgiirl]

Moose, you totally missed a4a's meaning behind her post and instead just focused on two words she used, expect and demand. She expects and demands her husband treat her well and with respect. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And I bet you her husband expects and demands the same treatment from her. From what I gathered from a4a's post, she demands and expects her husband not to abuse her, to not drink and gamble their lives away and to spend time with her. I think this is perfectly normal and resonable for a wife to expect and demand these things from their husband, just as any husband should expect and demand the same things from their wife. I dont quite see your point to your original post. A woman shouldnt expect not to be beaten up by their husband?

[a4a]

The woman is to submit to the man and in turn he will provide her with shelter, food, and comforts. She should be happy with this?

 

You got it D.... nail on the head.

 

Now dag gone where is that no good bastard husband of mine. I told him he best be home to rub my feet. He gonna get a whippin' like no whippin' I done did ever git to him.

[Mz. Pixie]

Moose, I love ya, but seriously I think you misunderstood her post. I took it to mean that BOTH partners ought to be doing what they can for the other.

 

In other words she puts alot into the relationship and expects alot in return. And I do believe she is good to her H.

 

You have to remember that her H is not living by the same standards that you are- so trying to enforce to her that she should act more like Ms. Moose is kinda defeating the purpose. Since neither of them are religious they are not using the Bible as their standard for marriage.

 

Not saying either is right or wrong. I know what I live by, but I cannot judge others who do not want or choose to do so.

[CryingCanuck]

You made me look at myself all over again

 

After re-reading your post I can say without a doubt...

 

I'm Guilty on a number of those same things you said your husband did to you.

 

Especially in my younger (much more stupid) days. I did brush off things she would say as being frifolous onltto have someone else say the exact same thing and I would say something like " wow that's a great idea" sometimes being polite, other times simply finally agreeing with my wife's original suggestion.. DUMB DUMB DUMB......

 

We all learn from others, and sometimes those closest to us are ignored or their opinions are not given the weight they deserve and other times respect is lacking or maybe all of the above,,, again live and learn I guess....

[dgiirl]

CC, it's not about beating ourselves up for past mistakes. I believe we all did the best we could at the time, and once we know better, we'll do better. It's definitely a two way street. You have to put in effort of meeting other's needs, but you also have to put in effort of getting your own needs met. If you want something, you have to ask for it, and if someone asks you something, you have to listen. I fear any guy who claims he treated their ex like a queen. I dont think they're being honest either with me, or with themselves. There's just no possible way that you can meet someone else's needs ALL the time, and sometimes our own needs conflict with our spouses, sometimes you have to compromise and sometimes you get your own way.

 

I only listed my ex's faults because it's easier to point out his faults. He believes he treated me like a queen, meanwhile he's the one who left for another woman. It's ironic. But trust me, I'm no angel, and i know some of the things I did to make him unhappy. (Some of the things I'm still not aware of simply because he never told me it made him upset, and I cannot possible know every single thing I do and how it affects other people) A lot of the things I do know, i'm ashamed of. But you know what, I didnt do ANY of it in malice. If I realized it was going to hurt him, I would never have done it. But I was living in the moment and doing the best I could at the time. We all need to find a way to forgive ourselves for our parts, have faith that our ex's were also doing the best they knew at the time, and just find a way to forgive the past, learn from it and move on.

[Moose]

And as usual, a4a has to blow it out of proportion, and accuse me of attacking her.

 

If a guest came in and asked the VERY same question, noone would've batted an eye at it.

 

So, for sake of arguement, pretend I'm just a GUEST for one friggin' post.....OKAY!!!!

 

The list from the OP was:

A decent guy, doesn't gamble, doesn't do drugs, isn't an alcholic, doesn't run around on his wife, isn't on drugs, goes to work everyday, dosren't put his own interest in hunting, fishing, other hobbies and male friends before his wife, puts a roof over her head, provides her with medical and dental coverage, food in her mouth, a roof over her head, a bed to sleep in, clothes to wear, not to mention jewelry on her neck, fingers, and wrist and ankles ~ is what an azzhat?

This was called a, "given", to be expected and demanded from the husband. "No big gold stars"......

 

Well.....horse poop!!

 

All of those things need to be appreciated by the wife, and her appreciation should be demonstrated with acts in kind.....

 

I asked the question, what does the husband get to expect, and demand, (as a4a put it), in return for what she expects and demands from him?

 

Where is the list of the husband's expectations, and demands to equalize this balance of give and take?

 

What gives either the wife or husband to demand above and beyond his/her call to duty?

 

That's what I believe the OP wanted to know, and what I asked as well....but as usual, got the ole' speel from a4a again.....

[Mz. Pixie]

I think she thinks you're attacking her when you follow her to a thread and post something to her.

 

Moose, if she's like I was with my exhusband I asked him what he wanted from me- or what he thought I could do better. The only thing he could come up with is more sex- and I stepped it up in that department.

 

She's not saying that she's unwilling to meet his needs.

[Moose]

Oh no, I'm not saying she isn't willing to meet his needs. From what I can tell she has her ways of doing so, and he admits to her that she is. I can't say for sure they are, only her husband knows this for sure.

 

The OP's list being dubbed, "A given", and no, "gold stars", set me off.

 

These are legitimate ways a MAN demonstrates his love, honor and respect to his wife.....it's a lot of hard work, takes self-discipline, and a man of that stature deserves a loving wife who respects that in her man.

 

I DON"T FOLLOW A4A!!!! into any thread. I surf the entire forum and a4a happens to post in a lot of the areas I like to follow.

 

I do think she has a unique relationship, and I'm curious about how they handle certain things.

 

But I'll be dammed to hell when I ask a simple friggin' question.....won't I???

 

[CryingCanuck]

a fight... Too bad I was actually learning stuff about how some women think and feel...

 

Too bad the topic changed.