So if a guy is

[Gunny376]

That's what I was looking for:

 

The excuse that he didn't drink or do drugs or run around with women (that i know of) just didn't hold alot of water with me either. Because hell, I didn't do those things either and I never once threw that up in HIS face. So, why was it a good excuse for him?? I never once said "Well, I don't drink or do drugs or chase other men or hit the bars" as an excuse for not working on my marriage. Those are EXPECTED things and if a woman settles for less than that from a man that's her problem, but not me. I want more from a partner than that.

 

We did have nice material things no doubt- but what I didn't have that I wanted was a real relationship and partnership with my husband.

 

What I wanted was for him to carry the weight every now and then and not expect me to take care of everything all of the time. I needed him to take care of me every once in a while. What I wanted instead of all of the things we had was for him to say "You know baby, let me handle that, you have enough on your plate. Why don't you go get yourself a bath and go to bed early and let me handle this"

 

What I wanted was for him to give me some affection- kisses and caresses- instead of coming home from being gone all weekend. I'd spent all weekend with the kids, working on the house and taking care of them. He'd come home and I'd be ready to collapse on Sunday night and he'd say "How about we knock off a piece?"

[Moose]

a fight... Too bad I was actually learning stuff about how some women think and feel...

 

Too bad the topic changed.

Well, don't blame me for it.....I asked a simple question because I'm curious too......

[ilmw]

In their perception everything looks peachy..... they are not taking the time to ask or to try to get to know what their spouse needs....... they think providing physical things is enough because perhaps that is what they enjoy/ appreciate?

 

It would be nice if relationships came with an owners manual.... cause I had no clue... I was doing the things that drove my wife away...

 

Would have been nice to know this place was around before all my relationship problems started.... hind sight...eh??

[Moose]

It would be nice if relationships came with an owners manual.... cause I had no clue... I was doing the things that drove my wife away...

 

Would have been nice to know this place was around before all my relationship problems started.... hind sight...eh??

Hind sight.....yes, a vauleable commodity.

 

Knowledge is power. And so are facts:

 

Fact: Men identify themselves with their work

Fact: Women identify themselves with their homes

Fact: Men have sexual needs

Fact: Women have emotional needs

 

FACT: Marriage isn't 50/50.......

 

The characteristics that Gunny listed out in her first post is a picture of a man that was doing everything HE, "thought", he could do to please his wife.

 

What I WANT TO KNOW, from the women here is........from that list of characteristics, what would be considered fair to expect from the wife in return????

 

Some are saying it's a given, that it's to be expected, and even demanded.

 

I'm trying to explain that it isn't. You cannot expect anything above and beyond that list without anything in return!

 

So, will any lady here on the forum care to answer the question already??????

[Island Girl]

A decent guy, doesn't gamble, doesn't do drugs, isn't an alcholic, doesn't run around on his wife, isn't on drugs, goes to work everyday, dosren't put his own interest in hunting, fishing, other hobbies and male friends before his wife, puts a roof over her head, provides her with medical and dental coverage, food in her mouth, a roof over her head, a bed to sleep in, clothes to wear, not to mention jewelry on her neck, fingers, and wrist and ankles ~ is what an azzhat?

 

Let's just agree there are basic needs that should be met on both sides. Respect is given by both parties, etc. because I think Gunny376 wanted to find what are the other things that would make a woman happy - not "I deserve gold stars for this behavior" but isn't it something that should be appreciated.

 

You bet it is. A woman should appreciate that.

Just like a man should appreciate getting laundry done, cooking, cleaning, help in taking care of the children, etc.

 

So those are basics in relationships. Let's assume for a minute that both people are going along and doing the expected. That isn't going to create happiness forever. The problem is THE SPECIAL STUFF.

 

Suprising your wife with a hot bubble bath and an hour to herself one day after work - part of the suprise being you and the kids go out to dinner so she can have some peace. -- that's ONE idea for the men out there

--- Whatever, - but coming up with ideas that say - "hey, I'm thinking about you and how you feel not because you are complaining but because I care".

 

And communication about THE SPECIAL STUFF.

 

Too many times I hear people not getting what they want but if asked about details - come to find out they do not communicate effectively about what they really want.

 

Men do really well with suggestions. Some women do not want to give the man ANY kind of help - because 'he should just know how I feel and when I feel it'. But they give hints, statements that they aren't being appreciated with no suggestion of what would make her feel appreciated (and all women are different here - what works for one doesn't always work for another).

 

Pointing out problems with no suggestions of a possible solution is letting a wildfire burn. Eventually it'll go out by itself but the damage is ongoing until it does.

 

Most women believe that men are given a basic course in Psychic 101 and all of them passed it.

 

Not true -- the same goes for a lot of women out there.

 

Communication is key. Honest communication.

 

One poster stated:

 

"she leaves for some vague reason"

 

to which the reply was:

 

"maybe it wasn't vague to her"

 

Well then it should not have been vague to him either! Again, very clear, open, and honest communication.

 

This is a responsibility of BOTH people in the relationship. Along with the understanding that there are very basic differences in men and women.

 

I do not expect that my husband should know that I am feeling very frustrated with life, I had a really bad day at work which left me kind of beat up, etc. unless I clearly communicate that to him. I have to share how I am thinking and feeling -- he has to do the same. Sometimes it is about life, sometimes it is about me, sometimes it is about us, but we talk

with the understanding that we are sharing and if each of us feels we need something we can clearly ask and it will be heard with an open mind. Not with an assumptive mind. Not with a selfish mind. Not with a dismissive mind.

[Moose]

HOLY MACARONI!!!!

 

Now.....this is what I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!

 

YES!!

[Moose]

With this open and honest communication, knowledge gained from one another tends to set, "post hypnotic", suggestions in our daily routines queing us for proper responses to each other.

 

I don't know if that makes sense to everyone......but this is the key in my mind.

 

IMO, THE PROBLEM LIES HERE:

 

When one or the other, (or both), begins to, "keep tabs", on who's putting more into the relationship, that communication slowly breaks down, (perhaps out of resentment or guilt), and brings that relationship into a stagnetic state.

 

Eventually, this mentality reverts back to the 50/50 rule.

 

Sure, we're doing what we, "think", is expected of us to carry the relationship, but this just won't cut it. 50/50 never will cut it. But neither will 60/40 or 40/60.....it needs to be 100/100.....

 

IF, you ever feel in your relationship that your at 100, and your partner isn't.....revert back to open and honest communication.....it's not rocket science......

[Island Girl]

So thiere is, and it is common, the over simplification of the statistical analysis of relationships.

 

There are multi-dynamics.

 

Each person is one.

Work for support of the relationship is one.

Work for support of the household is one.

Sacrifice for the good of the relationship is one.

Sacrifice for the good of the other person is one.

 

You get the idea. These ALL have their own equation of x+y=100%.

 

--- and yes it is 100% not 150 - not 200. 100%.

 

So let's start with each person. Each person is 100%. Meaning sometimes they have to give themselves 100% but often being in a relationship allows you to lean on someone else for you needs so you can give yourself less because the other person is giving extra. There is a fluxuation. Sometimes one person is giving unselfishly to the other person because it is needed. -- Not sacrificing - Giving Unselfishly. Not expecting anything back. If there is one person doing this and the other person never does there is a breakdown.

 

Just like sacrificing for the relationship - sometimes one person is sacrificing but the roles reverse on the drop of a dime.

 

The only commitment in a relationship that is 100/100 is the commitment to the relationship. Meaning. The relationship with my spouse is the most important thing. I will sacrifice for it. I will strive for happiness in it. I will keep it at the cost of outsiders (friends, extended family, etc.). I will be humble in it. I will be proud of it. I will be unselfish in it.

 

That is what I expect back. Expectations that have been and continue to be communicated.

 

We cleave to eachother. Both of us have the same view of that. We were very clear about what marriage means, what our expectations are, and what our expectations of ourselves are.

 

Moose, you are absolutely right about one thing - there is no tit-for-tat. No keeping score. No one-up-manship.

How do you place value on doing the dishes? And how do you make sure that things are even?

 

You don't. That is a prideful, selfish way of thinking about things.

A relationship is an evolving 'living' thing.

Both people have to have a clear understanding of who they are and what their role is in keeping it meaningful and loving. Most people don't discuss expectations to the detail needed for harmonious living for the rest of their lives. --- Pre-marital counseling anyone?!

[ilmw]

I agree!!

 

Something I learned through this hellish journey I am on...

 

"how much of your relationship should you take resposibility for?"

 

Answer: 100%

 

That.. and all the other things I never new....

 

My seperation has been the biggest wake up call of my life..... I have learned more about myself... and relationships in the past 6 months.... than all the other years of my life...

 

Now... I have a clue... much of which I gained form LS...

 

Thanks to one and all...

ilmw

[Flyin in Clouds]

Well from this post you could say she is kept like a pet. With a good owner.

...

 

A decent guy, doesn't gamble, doesn't do drugs, isn't an alcholic, doesn't run around on his wife, isn't on drugs, goes to work everyday, doesn't put his own interest in hunting, fishing, other hobbies and male friends before his wife,

 

This describes my H to a T. It is not enough, those things should simply be a given. No big gold stars for those things. ...

 

 

you know a4a, after reading all 27 pages of your "why do men get to stare at my boobs" whine, which degenerated into your rant about how gawd awful your H was... because he wasn't perfect.... didn't have all your superior planning skills... yada yada yada...

 

Your problem (and many other women too) is because you don't give gold stars for the things your H does right. You take it (and him) for granted and demand more and more. It is the things he doesn't do (to your statifaction) that you notice. No credit for doing all those other things right.

 

A guy is damned if he puts his hobbies (yes, even that kind) and interests before his wifes "needs". And all the while he is expected to give those things and more, do you women give a damn about his interests or needs? Do you put all your girl friends, clients, business needs after his needs?

 

Not enough? Yeah you selfish bytches want more and more and more. No matter what a guy does it's never enough.

 

You are all so worried about what you are getting. Why not worry more about what you are giving. You should get pleasure in giving. That is what love is about.

 

And when you go on with this rant about how you don't need a man for this or that you deminish the man in your life. And refusing his gift, that he wants to give to the woman he loves because he loves her and his need is to give her the roof over her head, when you deny him that in your feminist "hear me roar, I don't need any of that from a man"... well it ticks some guys off. You lessen their value. It makes us feel like you don't need us for anything. And in fact you've said as much. You don't need a man. And that isn't helping your relationships one damn bit. I pity the poor useless man that you are married too. To refuse a gift is rude and it's stupid. To deny a man the abilty to display a little tiny bit of chivelary by telling him he's not needed to hold that door open for you... of course we know you can open the door for yourself you twit. We like to hold the door open for you (and give you all the things on the list above) because we figure you might appreciate us for doing those things for you. But if we don't do something else none of that counts.

 

Sorty I gotta go to bed and don't have time to finsh this the way I'd like. ...

 

But damn can you stop looking a gift horse in the mouth?

 

Can't you (husband and wives) just enjoy each others company without all the drama all the time? Without the continual need to be reassured we really do truly love you? The very fact that your H comes home to you every night should tell you he loves you. But then again maybe he's stopping off at the old whore house screwing betty on the way home.

 

And apologies to gunny if I got a off topic. But then I really can't figure the topic of this thread anyway...

[a4a]

Hind sight.....yes, a vauleable commodity.

 

Knowledge is power. And so are facts:

 

Fact: Men identify themselves with their work

Fact: Women identify themselves with their homes

Fact: Men have sexual needs

Fact: Women have emotional needs

 

Wrong....... this is not FACT! I identify myself way more with my work than with the home I live in.... homes are investments IMHO. My H identifies himself more with the home than his work.

 

Wrong on sex........ I have sexual needs....... H went without sex for 4 years, something I never have done.

 

Wrong: men have obvious emotional needs as do women. Otherwise a man would not have erectile dysfunction because of emotional problems, men would not get jealous, men would not need to feel like the manly man of the house.

 

You are making a statement and handing out advice (maybe) in the assumption that all men fit into these "facts" or they are facts because that is how you feel yourself or based on your own M?

 

 

 

What I WANT TO KNOW, from the women here is........from that list of characteristics, what would be considered fair to expect from the wife in return????

 

That would vary from couple to couple. An example is my H would not expect/desire to have a woman lounge about the house and not have the balls to help take on tasks like remodeling, drive the tractor, or be able to set a fence post.

 

What each person expects out of their relationship is different for each relationship. So putting out a list that people shoud adhere to will not work. Or stating all men have sexual needs before emotional needs is not true in all cases.

 

You cannot say Men are this - Women are that and make general judgements. It will not work as they are individuals with individual desires, not gender based desires.

 

Some are saying it's a given, that it's to be expected, and even demanded.

 

The given expectations no cheating, no addictions, no gambling problems,........ all those things listed as non gold star items. I do not believe that those should be on the table if discussing needs. Those items should have been weighed before the I DO's happen.

 

Those are automatic dealbreakers......those go into the normal behavior category not the reward and recognize category.... or lets call them "outstanding feats" vs. "given and expected behaviors"

 

I'm trying to explain that it isn't. You cannot expect anything above and beyond that list without anything in return!

 

No a drunken prostitute using man should not expect his wife to stay sober and not cheat....or the other way around.

 

But that all depends on what the two individuals expect from themselves, their partner, and their shared and individual life.

 

Standards vary from person to person I guess. None are wrong just as long as the people involved in the R desire those.

[Moose]

I will agree with you that the facts I listed out are needed from both parties.

 

But I think you'll find that most agree these are the norm for most relationships. And as we've all figure out, yours is not, "most relationships".....

 

Please, get off this trip that I make all of this up based on my own marriage. It common knowledge.....

[a4a]

 

Your problem (and many other women too) is because you don't give gold stars for the things your H does right. You take it (and him) for granted and demand more and more. It is the things he doesn't do (to your statifaction) that you notice. No credit for doing all those other things right.

 

Well you must either be a fly on my wall or be psychic :lmao:

Sorry my H does know he is appreciated for the "given behaviors".

 

How do you not know that appreciation is not given? If he makes my coffee I thank him, yet he does not thank me for making his iced tea. In this case actually I am the one that has gone so long being unappreciated for the many things I do. I am considering taking half the day off and going to the farm to clean out his woodshop that is a disaster right now. But I don't think he would even appreciate it, but see I do things like that. He says it is a mess but has not found the time to deal with it so I will..... I listen, react, and offer myself to him....... it is not a WOMAN thing to not appreciate a spouse it is a two way street.

 

A guy is damned if he puts his hobbies (yes, even that kind) and interests before his wifes "needs". And all the while he is expected to give those things and more, do you women give a damn about his interests or needs? Do you put all your girl friends, clients, business needs after his needs?

 

I can only go from my own case: Yes I do. I send others out on trips because he does not like me away. I have not gone back to riding the circuit because he does not want me gone for weeks at a time. So yes. No I do not put my friends first. As a matter a fact he is always invited to go along to any function and I may turn many down so we can do something that we may both enjoy instead. In my M though he does not do things that I may desire and that may not meet his desires. Fine example: I go to the race with him - I wished to attend the symphony this summer. Race happened - symphony did not.

 

 

Not enough? Yeah you selfish bytches want more and more and more. No matter what a guy does it's never enough.

:lmao: bitter much? You stupid men can't figure out what the hell we want even when we tell you point blank in black and white. Men are retards..... :lmao: You give the wrong gift .... like giving a pair of shoes to a footless man. Then blame the man for not being overjoyed for the gift of the shoes???

 

You are all so worried about what you are getting. Why not worry more about what you are giving. You should get pleasure in giving. That is what love is about.

 

Of course it is nice to give. But when it is a one way street it starts to get old.

 

And when you go on with this rant about how you don't need a man for this or that you deminish the man in your life. And refusing his gift, that he wants to give to the woman he loves because he loves her and his need is to give her the roof over her head, when you deny him that in your feminist "hear me roar, I don't need any of that from a man"... well it ticks some guys off.

 

Well perhaps not all men want to pay the tab 100% and I think that is actually very selfish to "expect that". And no I am capable of feeding myself and keeping a roof over my own head. As my H states he cannot stand "incapable women"........ see individual desires are here again. Not all men get a woody over paying the mortgage alone in a M.

 

 

 

You lessen their value. It makes us feel like you don't need us for anything. And in fact you've said as much. You don't need a man. And that isn't helping your relationships one damn bit. I pity the poor useless man that you are married too. To refuse a gift is rude and it's stupid.

 

No I do not need a man. I desire one that fits my needs. Perhaps what you offer is not enough for the women you are seeing or married to. Do you think I tell him " I don't need you?" Do you not think that people are capable of living on their own? He would not curl up and die if I left and be helpless, nor would I.

 

Lessen their value. Do you not think that a mans action or non actions can lessen a womans value? Do you not think if a woman says " I really want to spend a weekend by ourselves" and if the man blows that off it does not make the woman feel like she means crap to him? oh I see woman is always at fault....... she expects too much Those selfish biotchs!!! I mean he did take out the trash now she wants to spend time with him too....... good god when will her demands ever end?

 

 

 

To deny a man the abilty to display a little tiny bit of chivelary by telling him he's not needed to hold that door open for you... of course we know you can open the door for yourself you twit. We like to hold the door open for you (and give you all the things on the list above) because we figure you might appreciate us for doing those things for you. But if we don't do something else none of that counts.

 

Again (you show your bitterness here) but how the hell do you know how I (or all women) in particular act? I have never told a man or a woman that holds a door open for me "I can do it myself". I say thank you and smile at them.

This has nothing to do with feminism.

 

 

The very fact that your H comes home to you every night should tell you he loves you.

 

See that is it right there..... unreal. The very fact that I come home without screwing the hot guy at the bar should be enough for my H too then. He should have no other needs or expectations from me or from our relationship....... what I choose to do should always be enough..... I mean I did not blow the neighbor last week and my H did not even appreciate it.

 

Major problem I see with some posters:

 

because they have a preconcieved idea of how all marriages or relationships should be (gender roles, or how all men or women think and desire things) they cannot grasp the idea that others do not want or desire the same things that they do. Not all men think alike. Not all men are the same...... not all women think alike or have the same desires.

 

Fine example is my H and his coworker were discussing if his wife and I would get along. His W is into fashion and woman clubs..... my H laughed when it was suggested that we could probably good friends.

 

I am into sports, outdoors, building things, and chatting about politics.

 

My H calls his wife a "barbie wanna be" with the need to collect designer goods. She is incapable of taking care of anything..... my H cuts up women like this all the time. Calls them "a ditz".

 

So different men desire different types of women. Women desire different types of men, have different needs and of course different expectations.

 

And there comes a point where one does look and think I have done 100 things for him/her and asked for him/her to do 1 for me and it is not done and now I am pissed and hurt. I have had enough. That is not a matter of keeping score that is a matter of noticing a trend in a R/M.

[Woggle]

a4a I am not trying to insult but you do come across the type of woman that is not happy no matter what a man does. Not trying to insult you but you do give off that vibe.

[a4a]

I will agree with you that the facts I listed out are needed from both parties.

 

But I think you'll find that most agree these are the norm for most relationships. And as we've all figure out, yours is not, "most relationships".....

 

Please, get off this trip that I make all of this up based on my own marriage. It common knowledge.....

 

 

Moose maybe because I deal with many professional working women that think more like in my terms. I don't hang out with the Moms and STAHMS that I don't think it is all that abnormal at all to have my desires or needs.

 

Nor do I think that my way of thinking is normal.....it is just my way of thinking. It may not be for all women.

 

I don't think it is right to use "most relationships" to use as a standard of how all relationships should work. Or to pass judgement on individual relationships. Or to preach to others about how they should work or to attempt to belittle others because it is not your notion of how it should be.

 

If that were the case I would say that you are denying your wife the right to fulfill her own needs by forcing her to stay at home...... but maybe just maybe your wife loves staying at home. And that is super if that is what she really desires. Maybe she loves to collect Prada handbags? Super for her!! I hope she gets all the Prada she can. I am not into Prada but I tell ya what if I hear of a good deal on Prada I would be happy to pass it along to her even though I think that kinda thing is a waste of money IMHO....because it is not my desire to collect them. Of course your wife probably thinks my $3,000 a month horse habit is a waste of money.....you could get quite a few handbags with that $.

 

Are you getting what I am trying to say to you?

 

and it works in a R the same way. I do not think wow I really like clothing as a gift, so I know my H would like clothing as a gift too. My job is to figure out what pleases him based soley on his desires. I recognize him as his own person and attempt my best to meet his desires and needs. Not based on what I think he needs or what other men may want. Hell some guys I have known might even want a Prada handbag. I don't think the H would really like one tho.

[Mz. Pixie]

Moose you asked me what my husband should expect from me??

 

Here's a short list-I'm sure I left alot out.

 

Honesty

Communication

Fidelity

Appreciation

Respect

Family Committment

A helpmate

Me handling most of the household chores

A willing and enthusiastic sexual partner

Me meeting his emotional needs

Support of his job and any other activities he has (coaching)

Acts of service for him- little things- such as calling in his prescription and picking it up without him asking- running him a bath when he's tired- meeting him at the door with a glass of sweet tea when he gets home.

Being his best friend- the person he can come to without judgment with anything and everything.

Praying for him.

 

Did I miss anything??????????

[a4a]

a4a I am not trying to insult but you do come across the type of woman that is not happy no matter what a man does. Not trying to insult you but you do give off that vibe.

 

 

It has nothing to do with a man or a woman.......

 

See in this case you cannot say I have a thing against men. I have had women in my life that just could not meet my desires as well...... some with dealbreaker qualities too.

 

It is quite simple to make me happy. It is that he keeps giving the footless guy a pair of shoes. He is clueless about this but hopefully he is learning something at this point by actually reading and educating himself on this very thing.

 

Now if a man does not get enough physical affection it is easy to say "just fulfill that need". But if the need or desire is more complex such as I wish she would tell me I do a great job supporting this family and show that she appreciates my hardwork.... it is more complex and probably harder to really remedy than a sexual need. But that does not mean that mans need is any less than the other mans need for sex. Giving that man more sex will not meet his need to feel appreciated.

 

Again I can use the man says "you never give me BJ's" and the wife replies " Yeah but I do the laundry, and that should be enough for you"

[Moose]

Thank you Mz. Pixie.

 

a4a, yeah, I get what you're saying to me....

[a4a]

Thank you Mz. Pixie.

 

a4a, yeah, I get what you're saying to me....

 

obviously you don't or you would not use one of these

[ilmw]

Hmmm,

 

I agree with allot of which has been said on this post...

 

One thing that really hits the nail on the head is... ever relationship is different. People are different. Everyone has their own priorities when it comes to emmotional needs... Which I think has been illustrated on this very post:)

 

Also... when people stop meeting their partners emmotional needs... Oh boy... things are gonna take a dive in the relationship.

 

Of course this is based on my own experience with my present set of circumstances and my prior LTRs... Then again... it is based on every book I have read about relationships...

 

Probably not realy reinventing the wheel here.. but 6-8 months ago... I knew none of this.... and I am considered by most of my peers as intelligent... and on the ball...

 

ilmw

[a4a]

Hmmm,

 

 

 

One thing that really hits the nail on the head is... ever relationship is different. People are different. Everyone has their own priorities when it comes to emmotional needs... Which I think has been illustrated on this very post:)

 

OMG you don't really believe that do you?

 

Not only that but people have their own ideals and standards for R's as well.

Some would never dare date a pot head or marry a person who wants kids. Either desire is fine, there is no reason to say that person is expecting or wanting somthing that is wrong or outrageous. To each their own...........

 

Also... when people stop meeting their partners emmotional needs... Oh boy... things are gonna take a dive in the relationship.

 

Well see this is what I am trying to point out sorta. It is not always both partners that are not having their needs met either. You can see that with so many couples.

 

A fine example is a happy wife that has a husband that believes his marriage is sexless because they only have sex 2x per week....but her needs are met, his are not. That does not make his needs/desires outrageous or too high. He just desires sex more often than her and she should attempt to meet his needs/desires at least part way? Or is he just way the hell out of line?

 

The Old line:

 

"I don't know why she/he left.......I did everything for her/him"....... obviously something was missing because if it was all there he /she would not have left.

[ilmw]

OMG you don't really believe that do you?

 

Not only that but people have their own ideals and standards for R's as well.

Some would never dare date a pot head or marry a person who wants kids. Either desire is fine, there is no reason to say that person is expecting or wanting somthing that is wrong or outrageous. To each their own...........

 

 

 

Well see this is what I am trying to point out sorta. It is not always both partners that are not having their needs met either. You can see that with so many couples.

 

A fine example is a happy wife that has a husband that believes his marriage is sexless because they only have sex 2x per week....but her needs are met, his are not. That does not make his needs/desires outrageous or too high. He just desires sex more often than her and she should attempt to meet his needs/desires at least part way? Or is he just way the hell out of line?

 

The Old line:

 

"I don't know why she/he left.......I did everything for her/him"....... obviously something was missing because if it was all there he /she would not have left.

 

Not sure what you meant by the first part up there...

 

Yes... I did see where you were going with what you have been saying.. pretty much over all here.

 

Just commenting on my own experience... we are not all so emmotionally intelligent as you appear to be... I for one... am one of those guys who... took.... without giving back... It was not always that way... but over time it changed... It happens.... Life, kids, bills.... Not an excuse anymore... I don't use it as a crutch... I know more now than I did before.... cause as I have stated before... I have never had a clue how to have a relationship with a woman... Emmotional Needs... what's that...?

 

Never had a good role model in my life... regarding relationships.... so it has pretty been hit or miss for me:confused:

 

Everything you have been saying would have been Greek to me... if I had not bothered to find out where I was going wrong in this Wonderful World of Male/Female relationships...

 

I guess I kinda saw it like throwing a dart at a dart board.... sometimes you get a bulls eye... some times your dart falls of the board... not a very realistic approach to relationships.... Alos... thinking it will just get better... cause you hope it does.... is also not very realistic.... Now I know it actually takes effort to maintain a relationship.... not just hope and good intentions...

[a4a]

Yes... I did see where you were going with what you have been saying.. pretty much over all here.

 

Just commenting on my own experience... we are not all so emmotionally intelligent as you appear to be... I for one... am one of those guys who... took.... without giving back... It was not always that way... but over time it changed... It happens.... Life, kids, bills.... Not an excuse anymore... I don't use it as a crutch... I know more now than I did before.... cause as I have stated before... I have never had a clue how to have a relationship with a woman... Emmotional Needs... what's that...?

 

I think it boils down to a very simple thing to ask "how would my partner feel about this?" So many people never think to ask that question. A form of empathy as well perhaps?

 

Never had a good role model in my life... regarding relationships.... so it has pretty been hit or miss for me:confused:

 

Ahhhhh Ha......... I realized finally that this was my H's problem as well. I had a rotten example growing up myself but realized how rotten it was in my early teens. Perhaps that is why I look to improve my M on a very concious level, very aware of his needs and desires because of it?

 

Everything you have been saying would have been Greek to me... if I had not bothered to find out where I was going wrong in this Wonderful World of Male/Female relationships...

 

This also applies to friendships, gay and lesbian relationships, and for that matter relationships with family members. Individuals in individual Rs have different requirements from us.

 

I guess I kinda saw it like throwing a dart at a dart board.... sometimes you get a bulls eye... some times your dart falls of the board... not a very realistic approach to relationships.... Alos... thinking it will just get better... cause you hope it does.... is also not very realistic.... Now I know it actually takes effort to maintain a relationship.... not just hope and good intentions...

 

That is by far one of the smartest things I have read as of yet!!!

[Mz. Pixie]

You know in reality for me it boils down to this-

 

Treat me like you did when we were dating- even though you have me now.

 

I know parts of it are different because you live together and have blended finances etc but still do the things you did for the OP before you married.

 

Do that and you can't go wrong because that is what attracted them to you in the first place.

[Flyin in Clouds]

...

Treat me like you did when we were dating- even though you have me now.

...

Do that and you can't go wrong because that is what attracted them to you in the first place.

 

That's the right idea BUT... you can't keep it up for 30 years. People grow and change. Interests change. Tastes change. Relationships grow and change, they mature.

 

The fire that was there before marriage isn't going to be there 30 years later. It has to get replaced by something else for a relationship to last.

 

Do you really think you can wear sexy little black dresses the rest of your life? That is part of what attraced us men to you women to begin with... You grow old, gain weight, get wrinkles, boobs start to sag... (we'll still probably stare at 'em just as much though).

 

And you know what. That dating thing is a lot of work, for both sexes. Why do we have to maintain that frenzy? Why not just become comfortable with each other? And be happy with that?