So if a guy is

[dgiirl]

Why when anyone differs with someone do they go into defense mode and assume it's an "attack".

 

Sorry mate, I refuse to read any of your threads. Not only are they long winded, but you came into the middle of this thread with your opening line spewing about how us women are all selfish bitches who want more and more. And you STILL refuse to acknowledge or appologize for the comment even after us women pointed it out to you. So you, of all people, have absolutely NO right to come and tell me that your opinion was only different and not a personal attack when you were the one who started with the name calling.

[Flyin in Clouds]

...

I guess I'm taking this thread a little personal too because all I'm hearing from the guys is because they work and bring home the bacon I should be thankful and happy.

 

Well I think a wife should be happy her H does that. It's ok to want more, but at least be thankful for the good things a husband does. geez. If you cook a great meal should your H just expect that or should he acknowledge it?

 

I never knew i was being so demanding because I wanted my husband to actually pay attention to me, to compliment me once in a while, and let me know he wanted to be around me.

Fair enough. But did you try to seduce him? Ever meet him at the door - naked? What did you do to make him want to be around you? Maybe you did a lot, but just like the guys are getting dumped on for thinking that "doing their part" was bringing home the bacon and that was enough maybe what you thought you were doing was enough. But maybe it wasn't enough to make your H want to be with you. Did you actually ever thank your husband for work hard to provide money? Please don't take that as an attack. Those are all questions and I don't know what you did or didn't do. It is just seeing the other side of the same coin. If your husband isn't interested in being with you, why not? Maybe he didn't get the respect he thought he deserved. If he's not paying you enough attention why not? Not once has my wife ever meet me at the door naked. Not once even in a teddy... now is it too hard for women to figure out what a man might like? Women are such retards. Flannel granny nighties ain't it.

 

I dont care how much fricken bacon you bring home,

You would if it wasn't enough to pay for the food. Hunger makes people real grouchy. At least that's my experience. Someobody has to bring home the bacon.

 

No matter what gender you are, we all want to feel needed, wanted, and appreciated.

yeap, even appreciated for getting up and dragging our knuckles along with our butts to work so we can bring home a little bacon... and actually needed for doing that, and wanted for doing that.

 

And just because you do the "chores" of the relationship doesnt gaurantee you success in your marriage.

That's true, but if they aren't done will the relationship be any more successful?

[Flyin in Clouds]

.... It's just that I had other needs that he refused to meet.

 

OK, can we get specific here? Just exactly what did you want that you didn't get? And why, do you think, your xH refused? And the result of not gettting it was? And why did you choose that path?

[Flyin in Clouds]

... I finally just point blank said "I will have an affair or leave you if you don't start staying home more and working on our marriage"

 

Response "I do not have time to work on our marriage"

 

I'm not sure how he didn't get it with that last one but apparently he didn't.

 

OK, so what was Mr. Dense working on that took all his time?

 

I can't think of anything more important than staying home and working on my wife... I mean marriage ...

 

But I said something very similar to my wife. Her response (initially) was "so you want an affair. OK, I'll pay for an apartment, go to it buddy... just leave me alone."

 

It took over a month to get it through her thick skull the woman I most watned an "affair" with was her.

[Diver012]

Interesting read... I think the K.I.S.S. factor applies for almost every single arguement here.

 

One person is communicating in a manor the other is either unwilling to, or unable to hear.

 

Im a black and white type of guy. I dont take hints very well. I dont read between the lines very well. I try and be a very attentive person but I take whats said to me for what it sounds like. I take people for their word and im to trusting.

 

When my Ex told me she loved me, I believed her. Hearing her say, "I know I said I love you but I don't." shattered my heart.

 

Hearing her say " I want to share a life with you" then being dumped 2 months later, devastated me. It would have been nice to hear that something was bothering her so badly that the relationship was in jeapordy. I would have gladly been stuck in the side of the head with a fork if thats what it would have taken. But she closed off and never let on she was unhappy. I never had a sit down, never once did she bring home a book, or any of the efforts all of you seem to have gone through. Every now and then she would nit pick something, then it would go away in seconds. The major issues that was bothering her, I found out later from a 3rd party. My impression was "Thanks for talking to everyone else about our relationship but me." I hurt me to hear about these things from someone else after it was to late.

 

Reading so many posts on here from these women who put so much effort into working on their marriage, just to have some clown say. "I dont have time" make me insane. I have never been married. I may never be married. It is something I have always wanted but im getting to the point where I simply dont give a crap anymore. But If I could find one women who was willing to be open and honest with me, I would buck up and do what I had to. Home is more important to me than work. You work to take care of your home, at least thats my priority.

[Flyin in Clouds]

....

Someone whose approach line for lovemaking was "Hey let's knock off a piece"

 

I've never tried that one... sounds real romantic.

 

So how about some lines that would have worked better for you? Just curious as to what you think would be better.

 

It is a slap in the face for some of us women who went as long as we could until there was just not any more hope left and who did what we could to hear from you even the slightest suggestion that we did something to make our husbands NOT want to meet our needs or that by changing our actions we could get our husband to change theirs-

 

of course sometimes a dead battery is just a dead battery. And men leave their wives because they can't get them to change at all either.

 

In my case had my wife not responded a couple years ago we would not be together today. That would probably mean I would be dead.

 

But why an affair instead of a divorce? If my wife had decided that my living like a monk for the rest of my life was OK with her, should I have an affair? It isn't just the sex, it's the emotional connection with sex that I want.

 

That's basically like saying we asked to be mistreated or that we didn't deserve to be treated like the gift that God gave our husbands (which we are).

 

hmmm.... not sure I want to touch that one... OK, I do...

 

yes, God gave you to your husband - as a gift. Thus your husband owns you. After all any gift given become the receiver's property, right? (as he puts on flame proof suit).

 

I'm sure when I say my wife stopped having sex with me every woman on here will blame me for that. I must have done something to cause her to do that. It was my fault. Right a4a? Something I did to mistreat her. Couldn't have been her...

 

What did I ever do to my wife for her to be that mean to me?

 

And yes, I think it is a slap in the face to imply that my wife's actions where my fault.

[Flyin in Clouds]

.... Just because it's not the same sin it doesn't mean squat.

 

Go and sin no more....

 

Hey Moose buddy, put down that stone... OK?

 

Sorry for not following and reading all your posts Mz. P but how did your xH react to learning of your affair? Did he care? Was he upset? I'm betting it didn't phase him much. Which means he checked out of the relationship a long time before.

[Flyin in Clouds]

...

I am sorry I have not been such a good husband. I did not know how to make you happy. I thought I would be easy. I was wrong.

 

Well uh, ... my wife says it should be easy - we shouldn't have to do a lot to please each other. ... and I kind of agree with her - to a point ...

 

I beat the hell out of myself thinking I must be awful, wrong, fat, skinny, work too hard, too lazy, suck in bed, bad haircut, ........you name it I beat myself up. The whole time it was my fault though because I was not communicating to him in a way he really understood.

 

For a long time I felt it was all my fault too. I must have done something to turn my wife away.

 

And again I asked if he was happy with me, he says yes,very.

 

I hope you understand that is his way of saying he loves you, - a whole lot.

[PWSX3]

If she doesn't want to "meet one of my needs - one of my sexual needs", is it fair for a woman to say no, and her husband is then expected to go without? If so, then it is just as reasonable for a man to totally ignore his wife's needs, never be inimate with her if he chooses not to and to expect her to not have sex with anyone else.

 

The point is how to you resolve such a problem? He (or she) wants something, she (or he) doesn't want to give? What are the choices?

Just wondering if someone could shed some light on this because I know it will be a question that will come up when me & the W go back to see the counsoler.

There are things that I would like from my W when it comes to sex and she won't do it because she says it tastes bad even though she has never tasted it so how does she know???

[Flyin in Clouds]

...

He will learn from this and gain better responsiblities to your needs, but not every single one of them, not 100% of the time.

 

You come off to me, and maybe some other people that you're not about to put up with that.

 

Ditto. and that's what my wife means about making marriage too hard. Make it easy. Hope for 200% and be glad you get 50%.

[Flyin in Clouds]

...He thinks riding in the car to the store is quality time......

 

gee... consider yourself lucky. A lot of the "quality time" I get with my wife is driving her to and from the airport.

 

I consider every second I spend with her quality time. Doesn't matter what it is really. Shopping, church (I go with her because it's her thing. I could do without going to church, but she's into church, so I go with her because it makes her happy.), sitting watching tv together, taking a shower together... going to plays together.

[Flyin in Clouds]

...

For Valentines day said he made plans..... did not show up until 8:30 at night, I ate mini wheats for valentines, he picked up flowers and a card at the last minute on the way home. "because if I did not get something I knew you would be upset".

 

Funny, our first valetines day... I watned to get whitre roses (my fraternity flower. we meet at the fraternity. her flowers when we married - white roses) The flower stores around didn't have any. A special order item. So I didn't get her any flowers for v-day. I gave them to her 3 days late. So that has become a running tradition - flowers 3 days after v-day.

 

[qutoe] He knows how much I love Halloween...... I don't think any quality time will be spent on that day either.

 

Maybe you can throw a pumpkin at his head... from horseback of course, long flowing cape... sleepy hollow...

 

I hope maybe others can avoid this by seeing how much these types of actions or non actions really do hurt others......not just spouses or partners but even your friends and family.

 

I don't need anything on any of those days. Particular days aren't important to me. Any day is a fine day for her to meet me at the door naked.

 

And any day is fine to send her roses to at work. I don't do it often but I do it occasionally. In fact she's over due. Gotta go to the grocery store tomorow..

[Flyin in Clouds]

well how do you break a procrastinator?

 

one pro at a time.

[Flyin in Clouds]

...

Quit the bitter nastiness

 

there is no bitterness or nastiness... you read that into it. (I'm taking the men are retards as sarcastic which my women are bytches was too, I think.. in response to something else someone said about men - the onging battle of the sexes...)

 

Likewise you imagine that your H's lack of planning means he doesn't care.

 

That's in your head, not his. It simply means he doesn't plan well. It may mean he isn't very thoughtful. He keeps telling you he's happy with you... but you don't get that.

 

please stop this personal attack crap...... not what the thread is about.

 

Why do you get your panties all in knot? I'm not attacking you. Disagreeing with you. Yes. Attacking? No. How can I possibly attack you. I don't have any forks, not even an Internet virtual fork...

 

Acutally a4a, your problem with your H and mine with my W aren't all that dissimilar. Different, but the basic underlying issue was the same - lack of effective communciation of what we needed and wanted.

 

One difference I think is our (my W and my) attitude that failure of our relationship isn't an option. So whatever it takes from both of us, be it patients or weekend getaways we will work things out. We have the commitment for each other.

 

I am starting to wonder if you are not a reg. poster with a new name? hummm.

 

Nope, just started reading here day before I signed up. So of course I don't know the whole history. I did read through your whole 27 pages of "is it OK for men to stare at my boobs..."

[mental_traveller]

A decent guy, doesn't gamble, doesn't do drugs, isn't an alcholic, doesn't run around on his wife, isn't on drugs, goes to work everyday, dosren't put his own interest in hunting, fishing, other hobbies and male friends before his wife, puts a roof over her head, provides her with medical and dental coverage, food in her mouth, a roof over her head, a bed to sleep in, clothes to wear, not to mention jewelry on her neck, fingers, and wrist and ankles ~ is what an azzhat?

 

I can't figure this equation out?

 

I believe the phrase you are looking for is "sucker"!

[Loserdude]

A decent guy, doesn't gamble, doesn't do drugs, isn't an alcholic, doesn't run around on his wife, isn't on drugs, goes to work everyday, dosren't put his own interest in hunting, fishing, other hobbies and male friends before his wife, puts a roof over her head, provides her with medical and dental coverage, food in her mouth, a roof over her head, a bed to sleep in, clothes to wear, not to mention jewelry on her neck, fingers, and wrist and ankles ~ is what an azzhat?

 

I can't figure this equation out?

 

I guess I don't understand your question - is it one? What's an azzhat?

[mental_traveller]

The list from the OP was:This was called a, "given", to be expected and demanded from the husband. "No big gold stars"......

 

Well.....horse poop!!

 

All of those things need to be appreciated by the wife, and her appreciation should be demonstrated with acts in kind.....

 

I don't agree. As a guy I'd expect a woman not to do any of that crap either. It wouldn't be so much a matter of getting gold-stars, as avoiding being booted out the door. You think I'm going to "appreciate" a woman for not being a gambling addict or a cheating slut? Get outta here!

[Gunny376]

That there are a lot of women running around out there in this big old world that have this attitude that they're entitled. Or something along those lines.

 

The man has to bring to the relationship this laundry list of things that I've orginally posted in my orginal post plus

 

"Rachel is a real girl. The list was taken from her website. Rachel is a typical young American woman. Keep in mind that she expects everything on the list simply because she has vagina.

1. 5'8” and taller
   
2. Dark brown hair with brown eyes/blue eyes
   
3. Handsome
   
4. Muscular
   
5. Weight depending on height – not skinny, not fat
   
6. Good sense of humor
   
7. Dimples
   
8. Cute laugh
   
9. Sensitive
   
10. *Affectionate* in front of friends
    
11. Gives me lots of attention
    
12. Outgoing
    
13. Popular but doesn't know the whole state
    
14. Friends with my friends
    
15. Nice smile
    
16. Straight teeth
    
17. No facial or body hair (except legs n under arms)
    
18. Pierced ear(s) if any
    
19. Not too many tattoos if any
    
20. Likes to cuddle
    
21. Likes to party
    
22. Takes me out
    
23. Grabs my hand to hold
    
24. Kisses me unexpectedly
    
25. Dresses nice (*ABERCROMBIE*) hehe
    
26. Has a good job
    
27. Tells me he misses me when we're not together
    
28. Makes me laugh
    
29. Open minded
    
30. Polite
    
31. Holds doors for me
    
32. Opens car doors
    
33. *Romantic*
    
34. Likes all type of music
    
35. Likes going to the movies
    
36. Talks to his friends about me
    
37. Looks into my eyes when just laying there on the bed
    
38. Gives massages without me having to ask
    
39. Plays with my hair
    
40. Calls me to just say hi
    
41. Tries not to argue
    
42. Apologizes for when he does wrong
    
43. Says what he's feeling
    
44. Has a car
    
45. Has a dog
    
46. Has a family that likes me
    
47. Compliments me
    
48. Is tan
    
49. Doesn't curse all the time
    
50. Wants to be with me as much as possible
    
51. Comes over unexpectedly
    
52. Wakes me up with a kiss
    
53. Same age or 3 years at the most older than me
    
54. *Trustworthy*
    
55. Patient
    
56. Likes to shop
    
57. Has good manners
    
58. Doesn't smoke
    
59. Occasionally drinks
    
60. Athletic
    
61. Is on time for dates
    
62. Calls back later when he says he will
    
63. Lives close to me
    
64. Wants to meet my family
    
65. Treats me like a princess
    
66. Has a cute butt
    
67. Good kissable lips
    
68. Good kisser
    
69. Good memory
    
70. Does special things for holidays/birthdays/anniversary/etc
    
71. Intelligent
    
72. Has direction
    
73. Creative
    
74. Likes everything about me
    
75. Committed
    
76. *My best friend*
    
77. Respectful
    
78. Mature
    
79. Persistent – Hard working
    
80. Likes walks on the beach
    
81. Likes just staying home sometimes
    
82. Writes me songs/poems
    
83. Likes to dance
    
84. Has a sexy voice
    
85. Cooks for me
    
86. Likes to show me off
    
87. Calls me or introduces me as his "girlfriend" not "Rachel"
    
88. Likes to take pictures
    
89. Flirts with me in public and in private
    
90. Puts up with my mood swings
    
91. Comforts me when I'm sad
    
92. Doesn't say “sorry” all the time when it's not needed
    
93. Sticks up for me
    
94. Likes animals
    
95. Sends me flowers for no reason
    
96. Ignores my imperfections
    
97. Surprises me (good surprises)
    
98. Doesn't ever yell at me
    
99. Likes picnics
    
100. Likes to clean
     
101. First to say I Love You
     
102. Listens to me
     
103. Smells good
     
104. *Doesn't lie*
     
105. Likes kids
     
106. Makes me the center of his world
     
107. Not in trouble with the law
     
108. Isn't a goody-goody
     
109. Doesn't stare at other girls
     
110. Doesn't talk to other girls more than me
     
111. Doodles our names on paper
     
112. Likes to draw
     
113. Leaves notes on my car
     
114. Let's me go out with him and his friends
     
115. Will hang out with me and my friends
     
116. Puts pictures of me in his car and wallet
     
117. Gets jealous but not too jealous
     
118. Dependable
     
119. Doesn't hang up on me
     
120. Calls me babe, sweetie, etc
     
121. Calls me cute pet names
     
122. Isn't conceited
     
123. Isn't a penny-pincher
     
124. Likes sports and going to sports events
     
125. Likes to play board games/video games and lets me win
     
126. Doesn't play mind games
     
127. Doesn't just think about sex
     
128. Cares about world issues
     
129. Doesn't make me cry
     
130. Leaves sweet voicemails/text messages on my phone
     
131. Isn't shy
     
132. Has hopes, dreams, and wishes
     
133. Not opinionated
     
134. Will watch chick flicks even if he doesn't like them
     
135. Can spell

Here is a typical 28yo American woman's personals ad. Interestingly, the only things she says about herself is that she is lazy, bitchy, ugly, and does not like giving blowjobs.

This is my ideal guy:

1. He has talent I can respect. Either he is a great artist or a musician with his own style or otherwise great at some craft. His talent doesn't follow the herd.
   
2. If he is not artistic than at least he enjoys the arts, music and books. If he has an interest in anything beyond mindless pop culture, video games and TV, that would be ideal. Not that any of that is too bad, but there is just so much more to life.
   
3. He has goals, not dreams. He strategizes on how he can realize his goals in light of whatever life has handed him as his fate.
   
4. He is an animal lover and has compassion for people.
   
5. He is financially solvent. He doesn't spend money he doesn't have and doesn't try to buy a woman's affection. He plans his livestyle to be uncomplicated and has common sense in regards to what is a wise investment or not.
   
6. He is not selfish and self-centered.
   
7. He likes his mom and female siblings and is nice to them.
   
8. He takes care of his emotional health as well as being conscious of his physical health.
   
9. He lives to travel and be spontaneous.
   
10. He is a one woman guy. He is not constantly searching for new ass. He's not an oral freak and wants to be with a girl who isn't into it either. He likes touching, kissing, giving and receiving massages. He knows where tha g-spot is.
    
11. He likes an independent lady who has her own interests, goals, and ideas and is supportive of her reaching them, as opposed to competing with her or taking no interest.
    
12. He wants to have a child. Not immediately, but he does see that in his future. He doesn't currently have any.
    
13. He's never been told by a girlfriend that he needs professional psychological help. If he has, he has gotten it and its been at least 5 years since he's gotten better.
    
14. He would rather do the right thing than try to get away with something.
    
15. He was not raised catholic.
    
16. He can cook and do his own laundry and doesn't expect his girlfriend to do it.
    
17. He believes in karma.
    
18. He listens to his inner voice and doesn't deny his real feelings. He can discuss issues and conflicts civily, even though a complete resolution may not come about.
    
19. He is not looking for a super model, but a real, normal person.

[Gunny376]

Marriage used to be a contract where a man was supposed to provide for a family financially, and a woman was supposed to be a good wife

 

The Good Wife's Guide

 

From "Housekeeping Monthly", May 13, 1955.

 

- Have dinner ready. Plan ahead, even the night before, to have a delicious meal ready, on time for his return. This is a way of letting him know that you have been thinking about him and are concerned about is needs. Most men are hungry when they come home and the prospect of a good meal (especially his favorite dish) is part of the warm welcome needed.

 

Prepare yourself. Take 15 minutes to rest so you'll be refreshed when he arrives. Touch up your make-up, put a ribbon in your hair and be fresh-looking. He has just been with a lot of work-weary people.

 

Be a little gay and a little more interesting for him. His boring day may need a lift and one of your duties is to provide it.

 

Clear away the clutter. Make one last trip through the main part of the house just before your husband arrives.

 

Gather up schoolbooks, toys, paper, etc. and then run a dustcloth over the tables.

 

Over the cooler months of the year you should prepare and light a fire for him to unwind by. Your husband will feel he has reached a haven of rest and order, and it will give you a lift too. After all, catering for his comfort will provide you with immense personal satisfaction.

 

Prepare the children. Take a few minutes to wash the children's hands and faces (if they are small), comb their hair, and if necessary, change their clothes. They are little treasures and he would like to see them playing the part. Minimize all noise. At the time of his arrival, eliminate all noise of the washer, dryer or vacuum. Try to encourage the children to be quiet.

 

- Be happy to see him.

 

Greet him with a warm smile and show sincerity in your desire to please him.

 

Listen to him. You may have a dozen important things to tell him, but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first -remember, his topics of conversation are more important than yours.

 

Make the evening his. Never complain if he comes home late or goes out to dinner, or other places of entertainment without you. Instead try to understand his world of strain and pressure, and his very real need to be at home and relax.

 

Your goal: Try to make sure your home is a place of peace, order and tranquillity where your husband can renew himself in body and spirit.

 

Don't greet him with complaints and problems.

 

Don't complain if he's late home for dinner or even if he stays out all night. Count this as minor compared to what he might have gone through that day.

 

Make him comfortable. Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or have him lie down in the bedroom. Have a cool or warm drink ready for him.

 

Arrange his pillow and offer to take off his shoes. Speak in a low soothing and pleasant voice.

 

Don't ask him questions about his actions or question his judgment or integrity. Remember, he is the master of the house and as such will always exercise his will with fairness and truthfulness. You have no right to question him.

 

A good wife always knows her place.

[burning 4 revenge]

too bad I'm not gay

[Gunny376]

We had one kid. Wife stays home, but the kid wears her out. I bust my ******* A** 60 hrs/week and get no credit. Wife gives me guilt when I don't throw everything down right after work to watch this screaming, annoying kid so she can go out to the gym, or to some restaurant with her friends, or to her sister's house to watch movies.

 

 

She gets to take naps during the day when the baby sleeps, and every time I call her on the cell during the day, she is at Starbucks with her Mom or friends. She says that doesn't count as "Her time" because she's with the baby.

I've had enough. I feel so undervalued and OWNED. She is so 'entitled' now it's like 60 (or 70, or 80) hours a week from me is EXPECTED. Being at work from 8-7 counts as my 'social' time, so I am not allowed to have any friends or ever do ANYTHING outside of change DIAPERS!

[burning 4 revenge]

maybe being alone isn't so bad

[Gunny376]

I give birth to your kids and you complain we don't have sex? How do you think they were born, osmosis? Who takes care of them, drives them to school, picks them up for after school activities, drives them to sports, takes them to their friends houses, plays chauffeur, cleans, cooks, goes to PTA meetings and then caters to your sorry whiney ass when you get home.

 

To top it off after you eat, fart or burp you walk out the door and go out with your buddies.

 

You want sex? Go **** yourself! I'm too tired.

[Gunny376]

Typical evening of a married man with kids.

 

"The thing about 90% of most women that become mothers is that their ************ and they get a big gut. They started eating for two, and they find they like it. So it's twinkies and m&ms all day.

 

Then they run up the mastercard buying the Tova Borgnine wrinkle cream and the Bob Bowersox spatchela collection from QVC which they watch all day.

 

So you come home from your day at work, and you see this fat **** in polyester stretch pants. "I took Dakota to the doctor and he has ADD. And Ashleigh has the flu and I think I have a scratchy throat too. And the voyager makes a ping ping sound so you have to take it down to the garage. And I think I damaged the springs under the front seat when I loaded my 400 lb *** onto it while strapping and unstrapping and adjusting and unadjusting the rear facing child safety seats while it took me 45 minutes to load and unload the screaming little treasures in and out of the car."

 

You see, once the woman has her two little trophies, she doesn't need you any more, except as a meal ticket."

[Gunny376]

I guess I don't understand your question - is it one? What's an azzhat?

 

Read my most recent post above.

 

Azzhat is a polite cesored way of saying anus, and all of its derivative slang words.