Guys who don't call.... ARGGGH

[Loserdude]

Well in my case ,I was never flat out rejected. The guy would agree, go on a few dates with me and just put NO effort into anything. I would have to do 90% of the calling, organizing etc. Then when questioned they would just say that I sort of forced them into going out with me and they weren't that interested in the first place

I mean, that's exactly my point. You weren't flat out rejected, but rejected none-the-less. I know this will sound very old-schoolish, but it gets back to my point about who asks whom out. (Your reservation about that is noted.) I think men are socialized (and perhaps a little biological programming too) to do the hunting, so to speak so it's fine when a woman asks, but it somehow (to me, anyway) goes against that innate desire of doing the hunting. Again, I used to like women who would ask but eventually got so sick of it - being mildly stalked a few times didn't help either. But back to your comment about you doing 90% of the work - I think if a woman does that she is a little in denial about everything and your questioning revealed the truth. Before you say that it was the male's fault for not being direct, remember, if we're not used to the behavior like that we may not react appropriately until we figure it out. Anyway, my last two relationships were largley due to my effort and I liked that and the woman, in varying degrees, felt more special that way.

[Loserdude]

I talked to him online today, and as much as I wanted to see him, I didn't ask him out. I thought I'd take all your advice, I just left it with, "call me later, or tomorrow" His response "Will do!!!"

 

So, now I play the waiting game... oh joy...

 

See? I don't think you even should have said that much. Let HIM call you or suggest that and see where it goes. I think the results will be much more accurrate about the guy's feelings.

[Loserdude]

(and I agree with other posters that it is just common courtesy to warn ahead of time if you are not showing up *expecially* if someone has been doing extra cooking work for you!)

I don't mean to monopolize this but I meant to say that it is absolutely common courtesy to not follow through with plans. Plans like that should not be broken without a legitimate and genuine reason. THat's just plain manners.

[stillafool]

I talked to him online today, and as much as I wanted to see him, I didn't ask him out. I thought I'd take all your advice, I just left it with, "call me later, or tomorrow" His response "Will do!!!"

 

So, now I play the waiting game... oh joy...

 

I think you should have said "okay, well I have to go now, take care". That's that. Let him make the decision to call on his own if he wants you.

[konfuzd]

Alright, so what you're saying is I can't express in any way my desire to see this person ever again? Sorry, but I just don't get it. You would rather gamble with the notion that a girl may or may not be into you than for her to indicate her interest? If I act too aloof, will he not assume I'm not interested and just back off?

 

Here's the way I see it. In every other aspect of my life, I am very aggressive, and I go after what I want. I think that is why relationships are so frustrating because I can't just go get it, I'm powerless, and I have a lot of trouble sitting and waiting for things to jsut fall into my lap. It's a part of who I am, and if it's going to scare some guy off, well then he probably can't handle me anyway.

 

Another question: If he is so turned off by the notion of me asking him to call me, why would he follow "will do" with 3 exclamation points? Doesn't that sort of indicate excitment on his part?

[Loserdude]

Alright, so what you're saying is I can't express in any way my desire to see this person ever again? Sorry, but I just don't get it. You would rather gamble with the notion that a girl may or may not be into you than for her to indicate her interest? If I act too aloof, will he not assume I'm not interested and just back off?

 

No, I'm not saying that at all but perhaps you meant this for another post. But my answer is not to express no desire - just do not initiate the date - as in, "Call me later" or "let's get together" That's far different then expressing a desire to see him. Do you see the difference? Expressing a desire is fine (and recommendable) when he says, "Do you want to get together?" You remarks about being aggressive are telling, and perhaps this string will help you see another side to approaching situations so that's really great.

 

Bonne chance!

[konfuzd]

This is all very primitive, if I must remain purely submissive in order to get with this guy, what would he expect in a relationship?

 

I'm not trying to be rude, but I just don't get it. Why can it not be simple? if two people are interested in eachother, why play all these games?

 

I think I'm just going to give up. I'm better off being single. None of this BS taking up space in my head which could be used more sensibly elsewhere...

[Lights]

Alright, so what you're saying is I can't express in any way my desire to see this person ever again? Sorry, but I just don't get it. You would rather gamble with the notion that a girl may or may not be into you than for her to indicate her interest? If I act too aloof, will he not assume I'm not interested and just back off?

 

Here's the way I see it. In every other aspect of my life, I am very aggressive, and I go after what I want. I think that is why relationships are so frustrating because I can't just go get it, I'm powerless, and I have a lot of trouble sitting and waiting for things to jsut fall into my lap. It's a part of who I am, and if it's going to scare some guy off, well then he probably can't handle me anyway.

 

Another question: If he is so turned off by the notion of me asking him to call me, why would he follow "will do" with 3 exclamation points? Doesn't that sort of indicate excitment on his part?

 

Konfuzd, forget that stuff. If you like to meet men actively go for it. I personally wish there were more women like you.

 

Don't read too much into the exclamation points, or in his word in general at this time; he hasn't exactly shown to be a man of his word as far as scheduling with people goes. Just take it as it comes while going on with the rest of your life; if meeting with him happens again, then that's great, if not, then it's probably for the better as well.

 

Doesn't mean you don't have to express your desire for the guy, or that you shouldn't find a guy who can "handle" you.

 

Maybe a better way of saying it is feel free to have fun with the guy but don't do it in a manner that is construable as rewarding his act of flakiness.

 

Not that I'm the slightest bit qualified to help you, but I just thought I'd put my opinion out there.

 

Good luck, and have fun.

[konfuzd]

Thanks Lights! I think it really is time to just move on, pursue other things in my life, he has ate up far to much of my time and energy than what he is truly worth.

 

If they say good things come to those who wait, I got something fantastically close to perfection in my future somewhere I'm sure! Haha

[Loserdude]

This is all very primitive, if I must remain purely submissive in order to get with this guy, what would he expect in a relationship?

 

Konfuzd - you are jumping from one extreme way to the other. Who said anything about being submissive? Nothing in any of these posts (mine or others) says that you should be submissive. You are reading way too much into what we are all sayiing.

 

I dated a woman - very successful - ran a business with over 100 employees under her. And I don't think once she initiated a date or a phone call until well into the relationship. She knew how to let men pursue her. And trust me, she is not submissive at all. In fact, it was her being somewhat non-aggressive (for lack of a better word) that I found attractive - especially given the many 'aggressive' women who preceeded her. I know there are people who disagree - and mine is just one guy's opinion, that's all.

 

I suspect his !!! was being a little sarcastic but I could be wrong. Again, if a guy likes you and wants to ask you out, you'll know.

 

It sort of reminded me of my neighbor - a single woman who, for about a year, kept saying to me whenever I saw her, "We should get together" or "knock on my door." I probably should have been more direct and hurt her feelings, but she just didn't get it. I'm not saying that's you, but I would just let the guy come to you rather than you go after him. Again, just one guy's opinion.

 

But Lights is right about one thing, have fun!

[Island Girl]

I couldn't disagree more. I think it's irrelevant who asks whom out, or even whether there's a romantic interest of any kind between anyone. If someone makes a time to meetup of any kind wherein individual absences cause critical loss of utility (e.g. throw a party of 50 people and it's no big deal if 5 don't show and 10 come late even without any notice. If two out of four people on a road trip are mysteriously missing, the trip loses a significant amount of its value. If one's date stands one up, the event is pretty much ruined.), it's just plain ordinary courtesy in my book to warn the other(s) ahead of time if one cannot show up.

 

Ordinary courtesy - yes.

 

Does it matter in a dating relationship? No.

 

For the most part - men like to do the chasing. And they chase a challenge. It is the girl that makes them put in the effort that is the one that they respect. Just they way men are wired.

 

Women call men, women ask men out. It seems great and if you are the guy they are calling, that's great for you. Most of your work is done for you. But any honest guy out there can tell you, most of the time, if not all of the time, that girl is not in the 'forever' category anymore. There is a basic lack of respect driven from the girl making those moves.

 

*** The only guys this could work is with those extremely shy guys that don't go out and lack any confidence. But they are usually desperate and once involved the woman finds them too clingy and dumps them.

 

Women need to be a challenge. The guy calls. He asks you out. He has to treat you right or he doesn't get to see you again. And you don't sleep with him FOR A WHILE. All men see when you are first dating is the package. Sex is constantly on their minds. Make 'em wait and get to know you first - it gives them time to develope their feelings.

 

It was a wonderful idea to give him a home cooked meal and treat him to something special. However, he was presented with this without having had to work for it or earn it. In his mind you are already chasing him.

 

1. He feels like he's got you already.

2. He is not wanting to jump into a relationship situation quite yet.

 

He hasn't decided if he wants to pursue you and you are pursuing him. So he is being a thoughtless jerk because he feels he can. He already feels like you like him enough that you will put up with however he decides to treat you. It sucks. Seriously totally sucks.

 

When he called you, it was your shot to blast him and let him know you were thinking he'd enjoy time and a good meal. Since he treated you like crap for no reason you should have demanded an apology - and not a lame one - a real one.

 

So what now? Well, don't call him. Don't message him. That has already been done enough. He knows you are interested. But if you are going to have any hope of a healthy respectful relationship you need to let him start doing the work. Let him call you. Get him engaged, enjoying the conversation (show him how great you are) and get off the phone first. Make him ask you out in order to see you.

 

He is typical. If he has treated you this way and you aren't even involved yet you need to get the respect factor back --- if he doesn't do the work, he isn't interested and would have just treated you badly anyway so walk away. If he chases, great. If he doesn't, you'd get more of the same and worse in a relationship with him.

 

Remember, anything worthwhile is worth working for. People value things more when they work for them. Just a fact.

 

So are you going to let guys know you are worth working for? That you are valuable and should be treasured?

 

I hope so. If you are willing to treat a boyfriend the way you treated him, thoughtful and attempting to make him feel special while fulfilling his needs, then you deserve to be treated the same way. But it is up to you to demand you be treated with respect in any relationship.

[Island Girl]

I couldn't disagree more. I think it's irrelevant who asks whom out, or even whether there's a romantic interest of any kind between anyone. If someone makes a time to meetup of any kind wherein individual absences cause critical loss of utility (e.g. throw a party of 50 people and it's no big deal if 5 don't show and 10 come late even without any notice. If two out of four people on a road trip are mysteriously missing, the trip loses a significant amount of its value. If one's date stands one up, the event is pretty much ruined.), it's just plain ordinary courtesy in my book to warn the other(s) ahead of time if one cannot show up.

 

Ordinary courtesy - yes.

 

Does it matter in a dating relationship? No. It should. But there are dynamics in dating relationships. Actions and reactions are constantly being interpreted.

 

For the most part - men like to do the chasing. And they chase a challenge. It is the girl that makes them put in the effort that is the one that they respect. Just they way men are wired.

 

Women call men, women ask men out. It seems great and if you are the guy they are calling, that's great for you. Most of your work is done for you. But any honest guy out there can tell you, most of the time, if not all of the time, that girl is not in the 'forever' category anymore. There is a basic lack of respect driven from the girl making those moves.

 

*** The only guys this could work is with those extremely shy guys that don't go out and lack any confidence. But they are usually desperate and once involved the woman finds them too clingy and dumps them.

 

Women need to be a challenge. The guy calls. He asks you out. He has to treat you right or he doesn't get to see you again. And you don't sleep with him FOR A WHILE. All men see when you are first dating is the package. Sex is constantly on their minds. Make 'em wait and get to know you first - it gives them time to develope their feelings.

 

It was a wonderful idea to give him a home cooked meal and treat him to something special. However, he was presented with this without having had to work for it or earn it. In his mind you are already chasing him.

 

1. He feels like he's got you already.

2. He is not wanting to jump into a relationship situation quite yet.

 

He hasn't decided if he wants to pursue you and you are pursuing him. So he is being a thoughtless jerk because he feels he can. He already feels like you like him enough that you will put up with however he decides to treat you. It sucks. Seriously totally sucks.

 

When he called you, it was your shot to blast him and let him know you were thinking he'd enjoy time and a good meal. Since he treated you like crap for no reason you should have demanded an apology - and not a lame one - a real one.

 

So what now? Well, don't call him. Don't message him. That has already been done enough. He knows you are interested. But if you are going to have any hope of a healthy respectful relationship you need to let him start doing the work. Let him call you. Get him engaged, enjoying the conversation (show him how great you are) and get off the phone first. Make him ask you out in order to see you.

 

He is typical. If he has treated you this way and you aren't even involved yet you need to get the respect factor back --- if he doesn't do the work, he isn't interested and would have just treated you badly anyway so walk away. If he chases, great. If he doesn't, you'd get more of the same and worse in a relationship with him.

 

Remember, anything worthwhile is worth working for. People value things more when they work for them. Just a fact.

 

So are you going to let him or any other guys know you are worth working for? That you are valuable and should be treasured?

 

I hope so. If you are willing to treat a boyfriend the way you treated him, thoughtful and attempting to make him feel special while fulfilling his needs, then you deserve to be treated the same way. But it is up to you to demand you be treated with respect in any relationship.

[Mary3]

I think this guy shows lukewarm interest. He is like " Oh yea thanks for this or that ( invite ) but I think if he REALLY liked you he would show you a little more interest.

 

My best advice. Back off.

 

Let the man take over after the first hump. ...

[Loserdude]

I think this guy shows lukewarm interest. He is like " Oh yea thanks for this or that ( invite ) but I think if he REALLY liked you he would show you a little more interest.

 

My best advice. Back off.

 

Let the man take over after the first hump. ...

 

Exactly....!

[arniebuteft]

Women need to be a challenge. The guy calls. He asks you out. He has to treat you right or he doesn't get to see you again. And you don't sleep with him FOR A WHILE. All men see when you are first dating is the package. Sex is constantly on their minds. Make 'em wait and get to know you first - it gives them time to develope their feelings.

 

...

 

Remember, anything worthwhile is worth working for. People value things more when they work for them. Just a fact.

 

Amen. The only guys who are out there saying things like "women should make the first move" and "why can't women approach us in bars", etc... are SHY. Well guess what dudes, it's time to get a little confidence and actually ask women out and pursue them. Women dig confidence and like to be pursued. Men generally don't like to be pursued, it makes them feel trapped. Well... the shy desperate men who never go on dates... they like to be pursued, at least in the beginning.

 

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I think men should woo women, take them out, buy dinner, plan dates, etc. Women need to stop feeling insulted when men pay, and stop feeling like they now 'owe' something to the man. Any man who buys you dinner and then feels owed, is no man you want to be involved with.

 

And ladies, stop hopping in bed by the third date... it's a little slutty.

[Island Girl]

Amen. The only guys who are out there saying things like "women should make the first move" and "why can't women approach us in bars", etc... are SHY. Well guess what dudes, it's time to get a little confidence and actually ask women out and pursue them. Women dig confidence and like to be pursued. Men generally don't like to be pursued, it makes them feel trapped. Well... the shy desperate men who never go on dates... they like to be pursued, at least in the beginning.

 

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I think men should woo women, take them out, buy dinner, plan dates, etc. Women need to stop feeling insulted when men pay, and stop feeling like they now 'owe' something to the man. Any man who buys you dinner and then feels owed, is no man you want to be involved with.

 

And ladies, stop hopping in bed by the third date... it's a little slutty.

 

Thank you! --- Finally a guy who will really tell it like it is.

 

I know men pretty well -- very well -- and the woman is the one who sets the standard of how she is to be treated. ANY man will do whatever it takes if it is someone he is interested in. If he is not interested - then asking him out and getting involved is a mistake anyway.

 

I have told women this again and again. The one's that seem to absorb it and start putting it in action end up in happier situations. Even the relationships that don't work out aren't that bad. They just move on and date someone else with more of the attitude "your loss".

 

They don't feel defeated and worthless at the end. The dating and demanding respect leads to relationships that just aren't as damaging as they are when the girl puts everything out there without letting him prove there is a reason to.

[Lights]

Amen. The only guys who are out there saying things like "women should make the first move" and "why can't women approach us in bars", etc... are SHY. Well guess what dudes, it's time to get a little confidence and actually ask women out and pursue them.

 

Hold it, arniebuteft. I am one of the men who believes that in these modern times women should be doing equal amounts of the approaching and asking out that men do. You do not and cannot speak for me nor admonish me. Nor can you rightfully assume that I or men like me do not actually ask women out.

 

I will not write further on this topic to prevent further thread-hijacking, and so it can revert to its original purpose of answers about how Konfuzd handles being flaked on.

[Island Girl]

This is all very primitive, if I must remain purely submissive in order to get with this guy, what would he expect in a relationship?

 

People who know me would in no way call me submissive. I too go after what I want. Very much persuing the man I want with flirting, getting and keeping his attention, etc. I just don't call them or ask them out.

 

I leave the door open for them to ask me out and they have a VERY strong indication that I will say yes.

 

The relationship developes with him activly chasing and me kind of leading the way.

[fishtaco]

For the most part - men like to do the chasing. And they chase a challenge. It is the girl that makes them put in the effort that is the one that they respect. Just they way men are wired.

 

Nahh, men chase because we have no choice -- women are the ones that like it. If all it takes is for a man to buy a women a beer at the bar and all is well (minus the rufie), then all the flower shops would go out of business, all the jewlery stores would be filled with women buying jewlery for themselves with their own money, and stocks for beer companies would go through the roof.

 

Guys do what it takes yes, but they also do the minimal amount of what it takes, because this is a game that women like. Men are interested in the results, not all the fancy game playing to get there.

[everlong]

"Hold it, arniebuteft. I am one of the men who believes that in these modern times women should be doing equal amounts of the approaching and asking out that men do. You do not and cannot speak for me nor admonish me. Nor can you rightfully assume that I or men like me do not actually ask women out."

 

RIGHT ON LIGHTS! hey, take turns. remember, ebb and flow. hey, sometimes you want to take the lead other times you want them too. sometimes you are both in the same 'head space' and that happens naturally, other times its like pulling teeth. sometimes a woman will jump yer bones and just wanna get nasty, other times she will want u to make the first moves in a romantic way...and the same fer guys...thru the rule book away, and go with the flow and stop letting the little things ruin the great things....it actually takes more courage [not shyness] to go against the grain and what 'society' dictates...just forget about the silly stuff and have fun

 

equality is respect

[Loveslacker]

People who know me would in no way call me submissive. I too go after what I want. Very much persuing the man I want with flirting, getting and keeping his attention, etc. I just don't call them or ask them out.

 

I leave the door open for them to ask me out and they have a VERY strong indication that I will say yes.

 

The relationship developes with him activly chasing and me kind of leading the way.

 

Island girl walks the fine line with the grace of a ballet dancer!

[Loveslacker]

Amen. The only guys who are out there saying things like "women should make the first move" and "why can't women approach us in bars", etc... are SHY. Well guess what dudes, it's time to get a little confidence and actually ask women out and pursue them. Women dig confidence and like to be pursued. Men generally don't like to be pursued, it makes them feel trapped. Well... the shy desperate men who never go on dates... they like to be pursued, at least in the beginning.

 

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I think men should woo women, take them out, buy dinner, plan dates, etc. Women need to stop feeling insulted when men pay, and stop feeling like they now 'owe' something to the man. Any man who buys you dinner and then feels owed, is no man you want to be involved with.

 

And ladies, stop hopping in bed by the third date... it's a little slutty.

 

I am so with you on so many levels my friend; you speak the truth.

[Loveslacker]

"Hold it, arniebuteft. I am one of the men who believes that in these modern times women should be doing equal amounts of the approaching and asking out that men do. You do not and cannot speak for me nor admonish me. Nor can you rightfully assume that I or men like me do not actually ask women out."

 

RIGHT ON LIGHTS! hey, take turns. remember, ebb and flow. hey, sometimes you want to take the lead other times you want them too. sometimes you are both in the same 'head space' and that happens naturally, other times its like pulling teeth. sometimes a woman will jump yer bones and just wanna get nasty, other times she will want u to make the first moves in a romantic way...and the same fer guys...thru the rule book away, and go with the flow and stop letting the little things ruin the great things....it actually takes more courage [not shyness] to go against the grain and what 'society' dictates...just forget about the silly stuff and have fun

 

equality is respect

No one has admonished you my friend. You're defensiveness bespeaks the weakness in your position. In my country the word would be "sissy." A woman who seeks a man does so because she cannot lure one with her own wiles.

[everlong]

indeed...truth, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

 

everyone has their own takes on things...one is not right, one is not wrong...its unique to them and what they want in life...

 

the woman that wants to be a 'challenge' for the man, will end up with a man, that's likes to play that role...and the man that favours eqaulity will find someone likewise...thats how it works

[Loveslacker]

indeed...truth, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

 

everyone has their own takes on things...one is not right, one is not wrong...its unique to them and what they want in life...

 

the woman that wants to be a 'challenge' for the man, will end up with a man, that's likes to play that role...and the man that favours eqaulity will find someone likewise...thats how it works

Now Everlong, you show your wisdom; yours are words to live by.