The "Importance of Personal Confidence" Thread

[stoopid_guy]

And I'm not thinking everyone is mean spirited without giving them a chance.

So give them a chance by asking!

 

You can't possibly read Riobikini's, Dgiirl's, and other lady's comments in these threads without realizing that there are definately some sweet ladies out there. This girl you're wondering about might be just as nice.

[Ross_K]

I know there's a lot of sweet women out there. That's what I'm saying when I say that I don't think everyone is mean spirited.

[stoopid_guy]

There's only one girl recently where it feels like for some reason she may be attracted to me....

I know there's a lot of sweet women out there.

So combine those two pieces of knowledge and talk to that girl!

[Ross_K]

I can't really say anything since she's my doctor.

 

And anyway, I'm not really sure how attracted I am to her, she is a really nice person though.

[SmoochieFace]

I can't really say anything since she's my doctor.

 

And anyway, I'm not really sure how attracted I am to her, she is a really nice person though.

 

I think it would be wise of you to steer clear of your doc... especially in 'that' way.

[dgiirl]

It's just obvious to me though. And I don't see why that makes me egotistical.

 

And I'm not thinking everyone is mean spirited without giving them a chance.

 

It's egotistical because you are still concentrating on your worth. Being egotistical means "having an exaggerated sense of self-importance", or in your case, self-unimportance. You think people have nothing better to do than to watch _your_ every move, just waiting for _you_ to screw up so they can ridicule _you_. Your focus is still on you. You automatically assume that a girl wont like you, you assume you know what she's thinking, and fear she'll tell you she thinks you're ugly or laugh at you.

 

You're judging people because to think someone might laugh at you, again assuming you're so different and out of the ordinary for someone to laugh at, then you must think that person is a mean person, because "nice" people do not laugh at another person. Yet, you havent even given her a chance to show you her character.

 

And you are basing all your misconceptions about people based on faulty data that happen when you were a child. Instead of realizing that the person who did that to you might actually be the problem, you again focused on YOU and let yourself believe you were the problem.

 

Maybe you are right and the girl in question is not interested. But part of life is allowing other's to make their own decisions. You dont allow other's to make their own decisions. Instead, you make it for them. You take the control away from them and keep it for yourself.

 

I know it's a foreign concept to grasp, but just because one is shy and timid, doesnt mean they are not egotistical, controlling and judgemental.

[riobikini]

Ross (and whoever reads this) here's a short story about a someone I met years ago:

 

The guy was about mid-twenties, had a lot of trouble meeting (and keeping) a girlfriend, and over the years, through all his frantic behavior to "get" them, he became known to everyone as "bothersome', and even caused some females to be very frightened of him because of his constant pursuit and one-track-mindedness in regards to meeting (in his words he was "getting") a new possible "girlfriend."

 

There were only two modes possible with him: he was always either depressed (and talking about his quest) -or far too hyper and chatty ( -and of course, talking about his quest for women).

 

He was on medication, saw a therapist -but nothing seemed to help lessen his fixation with "getting" a girlfriend.

 

As a matter of fact, with time, most women who knew about him -stayed far from him, if possible.

 

It wasn't his looks (he wasn't too sore on the eyes), it wasn't his income (he made a good living), it wasn't that he didn't appear caring.

 

It was because he absolutely could not direct his focus away from all the issues he had (all of them revolved around "getting" a girl, so as not to be, someday in his very old age -lonely), neither with meds, nor with therapy.

 

Now, I'm certainly not suggesting that what happened next is the "fix-all" for this kind of problem -yours or anyone else's- but read into it whatever you like, for whatever it's worth.

 

This young man's father lived on a ranch hundreds of miles away and had died, leaving it to him and his older brother (who, btw, was perfectly fine, happy, and married...Smile).

 

He and his brother made a decision to restore the ranch and he moved away to do so. He was gone from nearly five years when he returned to live here, again.

 

When he returned -he was different.

 

He was completely "grown-up" and, by all in-person accounts after seeing him, certainly wasn't the skinny, annoying kid he was before he'd left.

 

He was still on medication for anxiety & depression, but they just seemed to be working better.

 

I always wondered to myself what caused such a change.

 

One of the things I strongly suspect, is that after the death of his father, this young man was mentored by his older brother, who directed him in the ways a man should behave, and I think their closeness was an amazing factor in his further growth and development.

 

It didn't take away his anxiety disorder -I don't know of a thing on earth that can do that- but the reuniting with his brother was -I truly believe- the thing he needed as much as any medication any doctor could have prescribed.

 

He is now married -with children. And is a very good husband and father.

 

True story.

 

But...point of story?

 

I guess there are two: the first is -you can become so obsessed with what you *don't* have that you wind up never getting it; and secondly, mentors are like giant oaks, deeply rooted and always patient -and just being near them to sit in their assuring shade, listen to their wisdom, and lean on their strength- is just what some of us need to learn how to live.

 

(Smile)

 

Take care.

 

-Rio

[Art_Critic]

is that after the death of his father

 

Rio.. thanks for the post..

 

I think more than the mentoring it was losing his father..

 

When I lost my father when I was 23 it was a life changing event.. my identity and everything I knew of was now gone.. or changed forever..

 

I grew up in that moment..

 

I also lost my step mother a few years ago and it was also a changing event for me.. not as drastic but being older I think has alot to do with that.

I have learned alot about what life really is all about with her death and what is important to me.

 

It has made me a better person and happier

[riobikini]

Art_Critic, I agree with you in that the death of his father had as much to do with the changes, too.

 

I have also been there regarding losing a parent.

 

Know how it changes the very heart of a person....and washes away all the small, meaningless stuff.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[Ariadne]

I strongly suspect, is that after the death of his father, this young man was mentored by his older brother, who directed him in the ways a man should behave

 

And again someone is changed by the external factors that make him a better man...

 

I'd say the guy had time to gather his thoughts in the farm and being close to nature calmed his ways.

 

Ariadne

[riobikini]

re:

 

Adriadne: " I'd say the guy had time to gather his thoughts in the farm and being close to nature calmed his ways."

 

Contributing, no doubt, in part; I'd say this is also true.

 

And we live out our entire lives in an "external" environment.

 

(Muse) To date, I have found no way to avoid it.

 

-Rio

[Ariadne]

----------------------------

[Ross_K]

Ross (and whoever reads this) here's a short story about a someone I met years ago:

 

The guy was about mid-twenties, had a lot of trouble meeting (and keeping) a girlfriend, and over the years, through all his frantic behavior to "get" them, he became known to everyone as "bothersome', and even caused some females to be very frightened of him because of his constant pursuit and one-track-mindedness in regards to meeting (in his words he was "getting") a new possible "girlfriend."

 

There were only two modes possible with him: he was always either depressed (and talking about his quest) -or far too hyper and chatty ( -and of course, talking about his quest for women).

 

He was on medication, saw a therapist -but nothing seemed to help lessen his fixation with "getting" a girlfriend.

 

As a matter of fact, with time, most women who knew about him -stayed far from him, if possible.

 

It wasn't his looks (he wasn't too sore on the eyes), it wasn't his income (he made a good living), it wasn't that he didn't appear caring.

 

It was because he absolutely could not direct his focus away from all the issues he had (all of them revolved around "getting" a girl, so as not to be, someday in his very old age -lonely), neither with meds, nor with therapy.

 

Now, I'm certainly not suggesting that what happened next is the "fix-all" for this kind of problem -yours or anyone else's- but read into it whatever you like, for whatever it's worth.

 

This young man's father lived on a ranch hundreds of miles away and had died, leaving it to him and his older brother (who, btw, was perfectly fine, happy, and married...Smile).

 

He and his brother made a decision to restore the ranch and he moved away to do so. He was gone from nearly five years when he returned to live here, again.

 

When he returned -he was different.

 

He was completely "grown-up" and, by all in-person accounts after seeing him, certainly wasn't the skinny, annoying kid he was before he'd left.

 

He was still on medication for anxiety & depression, but they just seemed to be working better.

 

I always wondered to myself what caused such a change.

 

One of the things I strongly suspect, is that after the death of his father, this young man was mentored by his older brother, who directed him in the ways a man should behave, and I think their closeness was an amazing factor in his further growth and development.

 

It didn't take away his anxiety disorder -I don't know of a thing on earth that can do that- but the reuniting with his brother was -I truly believe- the thing he needed as much as any medication any doctor could have prescribed.

 

He is now married -with children. And is a very good husband and father.

 

True story.

 

But...point of story?

 

I guess there are two: the first is -you can become so obsessed with what you *don't* have that you wind up never getting it; and secondly, mentors are like giant oaks, deeply rooted and always patient -and just being near them to sit in their assuring shade, listen to their wisdom, and lean on their strength- is just what some of us need to learn how to live.

 

(Smile)

 

Take care.

 

-Rio

 

I'm not really too sure if I'm obsessing over it. Sure, I think about it a lot but that's natural. And I can't see that lessening my chances with getting someone, I mean I don't act desperate around women (I don't really 'act' at all).

 

In my teenage years to about say 21 maybe 23, I never thought about it a lot of the time like I do now, it wasn't any where near as big of an issue as it was now, yet I still never got anyone.

 

So I really can't see that stopping thinking about it a lot will make any difference. Even though I would still like to stop thinkng about it a lot anyway.

[Ross_K]

It's egotistical because you are still concentrating on your worth. Being egotistical means "having an exaggerated sense of self-importance", or in your case, self-unimportance. You think people have nothing better to do than to watch _your_ every move, just waiting for _you_ to screw up so they can ridicule _you_. Your focus is still on you. You automatically assume that a girl wont like you, you assume you know what she's thinking, and fear she'll tell you she thinks you're ugly or laugh at you.

 

You're judging people because to think someone might laugh at you, again assuming you're so different and out of the ordinary for someone to laugh at, then you must think that person is a mean person, because "nice" people do not laugh at another person. Yet, you havent even given her a chance to show you her character.

 

And you are basing all your misconceptions about people based on faulty data that happen when you were a child. Instead of realizing that the person who did that to you might actually be the problem, you again focused on YOU and let yourself believe you were the problem.

 

Maybe you are right and the girl in question is not interested. But part of life is allowing other's to make their own decisions. You dont allow other's to make their own decisions. Instead, you make it for them. You take the control away from them and keep it for yourself.

 

I know it's a foreign concept to grasp, but just because one is shy and timid, doesnt mean they are not egotistical, controlling and judgemental.

 

It's just through experience though, you know, there seems to be certain types of girls who wont let you down nicely and I can usually spot them, I could be wrong with some of them, but...

 

And then there's what I always say about only getting negative responces from women offline and not one ever acting attracted to me, it just makes it obvious that if I'm stood there next to a women that the woman would no way in hell be attracted to me.

 

I don't think this is anything to do with the ego.

[Lights]

Begin by aiming for a non-spectacular kind of positive interaction with just *people* in general.

 

The best way I've found to create a positive, casual, and (possibly) forward-moving acquaintance with someone, is to say something appreciative of some talent, or skill they possess, or an effort made by them to do what's actually kind of expected, but rarely is appreciated -or a kind/polite gesture they've made that they think no one has noticed.

 

Everyone wants to be recognized and appreciated, even if it's in some small way, normally not expected to gain attention.

 

All it usually takes is a word or two -and a smile. Then you go on your way.

 

These small exercises sound insignificant and incapable of helping build confidence -but you only need to try them before you toss the idea.

I don't toss the idea at all, although I have tried this kind of thing before (just try to say a minimal thing and smile); I don't always get a chance to identify such a thing in time though before they've already passed by.

 

No one is suggesting that you make a total goof of yourself by chatting it up for any length of time to a absolute stranger.

I've actually done this kind of thing, sometimes even successfully, but yes, I don't currently have the ability to do so happily and confidently, so I don't have a problem with 'working back up to it', so to speak.

 

What I *am* suggesting, is that you practice *giving* a small bit of your positive self, in order to *get* something positive back.

 

Say "thank you" to somebody -earn a smile.

 

Smile a "thank you" to someone without saying a word.

 

Move your book from the seat next to you so someone can sit down; say "you're welcome" when he/she thanks you.

 

Practice.

Well, the seat thing and a smile from a thank you doesn't really happen in my experience, and I do have trouble really eliciting a good response from a smile (although I do find it hard to smile at will--I don't really know what to do about that if I'm not actually feeling happy enough to smile). I like a lot of your advice so far though.

 

The answer to this is actually all about choosing a method that works best for you in getting over the threshold of initial fear of rejection -and you may try out many before you find one that really does a better job than the rest.

 

Some people say taking deep breaths and "psyching" yourself up (adrenaline) helps -but I think having taken the time to plan where you're going, whom it is possible to encounter there, and having practiced no more than a few polite words and a nice, casual exit, works best.

...

I believe having a strong, supportive, and understanding mentor is also important -someone to keep you grounded, give advice, and keep the pressure low.

 

If he/she has a sense of humor that can provide an appropriate, and much-needed laugh or two, now and then -that would be worth it's weight in gold to you with all of this.

 

Someone to make you see humor where there is truly humor; and someone who knows when the silence is best.

...

(Smile)

 

Take care.

 

-Rio

 

I believe every word you are saying so far. I am curious though, where would I find such a mentor in offline life? Thanks for your advice.

[riobikini]

re:

 

Lights: ".... I do have trouble really eliciting a good response from a smile (although I do find it hard to smile at will--I don't really know what to do about that if I'm not actually feeling happy enough to smile)."

 

" I am curious though, where would I find such a mentor in offline life? Thanks for your advice."

 

 

Practice. And persistence. <Two words from the Little Red Schoolhouse primer handed down from generation to generation in my family.

 

I also believe it's true what they say: "Smile and the world will smile with you".

 

(So here's one for you>Smile.. )

 

Query: Did it work? Did you smile back? or were you just stunned?

 

Most people -if only in their mind's eye- would have returned the smile.

 

And here's the thing: I wasn't even there to see it in person.

 

Point: Often, in life, we *do* get back a good deal of what we put out there in regards to the kind of signal emitting from our general personality, or mood.

 

If what we're throwing out there isn't exactly getting the response we'd like -it makes sense to take charge of that and do what we can to change it. Persistance. Practice.

 

The exercises I gave in an earlier post, are the same ones I used with a person I was having difficulty in getting to "warm up" a few months ago.

 

Having worked for her company for years, and moving successfully upwards through the ranks of the company, this person suddenly found herself being micro-managed by "new" bosses after a company buy-out.

 

She was forced to take a mediocre-paying position, had no hope for any future advancement, and received little appreciation or recognition for her excellent work and efforts.

 

The job was one which she took very seriously, and performed with great pride, and although she was good at it, she had finally "had it" and was ready to leave.

 

This was about the time I met her.

 

I thought I would never get to see her crack even the least hint of a smile -or hear anything but icy, clipped, very "professional" responses and comments from her; she barely looked at me when she spoke.

 

Not knowing about her situation, I was almost convinced it was me whom she didn't like.

 

A few months later, just before she was leaving for her new (and better paying job) she stopped by my office to say "good-bye".

 

I was -to say the least- very surprised!

 

She thanked me for always having been "nice" to her -and said a few more complimentary things which showed me how I'd misread her in thinking, all along, that it was her (core) personality that was seriously lacking -or that my signals weren't giving off the positive vibes I'd tried so hard to induce- instead of considering the possibility of personal problems she'd been dealing with all those months.

 

You see, people respond to us -not always because they just don't like other people -or find you offensive in some way you can't figure out- they could actually be reacting to circumstances we are totally unaware of.

 

Lights, I'd say, keep practicing the low-key approach in eliciting positive responses, look for mentors within reach of your environment (you'll certainly find them) -and as suggested before in my previous post to you- advance when you feel ready.

 

(Smile)

 

Take care.

 

-Rio

[Lights]

re:

I also believe it's true what they say: "Smile and the world will smile with you".

 

(So here's one for you>Smile.. )

 

Query: Did it work? Did you smile back? or were you just stunned?

 

Most people -if only in their mind's eye- would have returned the smile.

 

And here's the thing: I wasn't even there to see it in person.

 

Point: Often, in life, we *do* get back a good deal of what we put out there in regards to the kind of signal emitting from our general personality, or mood.

 

If what we're throwing out there isn't exactly getting the response we'd like -it makes sense to take charge of that and do what we can to change it. Persistance. Practice.

I did smile back. If only a smile from me actually meant anything to the people I see around in person though...

 

The exercises I gave in an earlier post, are the same ones I used with a person I was having difficulty in getting to "warm up" a few months ago.

...

You see, people respond to us -not always because they just don't like other people -or find you offensive in some way you can't figure out- they could actually be reacting to circumstances we are totally unaware of.

I'll believe that, I suppose.

 

Lights, I'd say, keep practicing the low-key approach in eliciting positive responses, look for mentors within reach of your environment (you'll certainly find them) -and as suggested before in my previous post to you- advance when you feel ready.

I still don't understand how I'd find mentors in something like this, though. I have not heard of anyone nearby instructing people in generating real social confidence (which is why I'm left asking for advice on the internet), or even successfully found "friends" or other such people offering friendly advice but who are not rudely intrusive nor are more rivals than allies.

[riobikini]

re:

 

Lights: ".. I have not heard of anyone nearby instructing people in generating real social confidence.."

 

Maybe the word "mentor" is what's confusing you -maybe I shouldn't have used it at all.

 

I think more what I'm trying to get across to you, is that there are people you come across -or people who are (maybe) already members of your own family- from whom you can take inspiration, and just by watching them, talking with them, and listening to them- learn more about how to view relationships (and how to construct them).

 

I also think it wouldn't help much to look at them as an "instructor", either.

 

-Rio

[maoserr]

I feel confidence is built from experience, once you've experienced enough, you will be confident. And you can't always be confident, sometimes you have to be humble. It depends on your environment, if you're a scientists, you can be confident in your work, but not at an oil rig.

 

And people usually don't like false confidence. If you have nothing to be confident about, just be humber and deference until you learn.