burning 4 revenge Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Two astro-physicists were awarded the Nobel Prize today for an experiment that proved the existence of variations in microwave radiation, or "cosmic ripples" that dated the big bang to 15 billion years ago. Stephen Hawking himself called it the greatest experiment conducted in science. I'm wondering if the physics community is essentially convinced that the big bang has been proven ,why do people still persist in their belief in a personal and moral God? Isn't the closest thing we have to God the cold and constant laws of mathematics that seem to be the governing principles of all things? Science has shown us where we come from. It isn't heartwarming, but there it is. Why all the ignorance? Link to post Share on other sites
bluechocolate Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I don't see why it is necessary that those two things are conflict. Link to post Share on other sites
Author burning 4 revenge Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 I don't see why it is necessary that those two things are conflict. Because there doesn't seem to be any moral principles at play, only mathematical ones. Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Because there doesn't seem to be any moral principles at play, only mathematical ones. Religion may be nothing more than a means of encouraging (or dictating) certain behavioural standards. Would your argument be that society doesn't require the construction and application of moral standards, B4R? Wouldn't that just result in a Lord of the Flies environment? Nihilism is probably a lot less poetic and seductive in practice than it is in theory. Particularly when taken up by brutish segments of society who would no doubt obliterate the intellectual nihilists off the planet in the blink of an eye. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Nobody said the scientists don't believe that God supplied the materials required for the Big Bang. Some of the most spiritual people I've known have been theoretical physicists. Believing in God doesn't require slavish belief of the 'story of creation'. Nothing in science precludes the existence of God. It's just people who don't understand science who think so. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Science has shown us where we come from. It isn't heartwarming, but there it is. Why all the ignorance? science is great. I love science. But...they are working with some major assumptions and theories of which we really cannot begin to understand. 100 years from now probably 50% of what we know now will be obsolete or proven incorrect. Science is a work in progress. Link to post Share on other sites
Craig Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I'm wondering if the physics community is essentially convinced that the big bang has been proven ,why do people still persist in their belief in a personal and moral God? Isn't the closest thing we have to God the cold and constant laws of mathematics that seem to be the governing principles of all things? Science has shown us where we come from. It isn't heartwarming, but there it is. Why all the ignorance?As much as I enjoy the world of mathematics it is just a science, just part of science and science does not provide us with answers--only models. If there were a bible for the science crowd, the first sentence of the first paragraph of the first chapter would begin with..."In the beginning there are the assumptions and upon the assumptions theories and proofs are based." Link to post Share on other sites
RecordProducer Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Because people like BS more than wisdom, small-mindness more than open-mindness, superstition more than science... Science doesn't explain things in the way the human mind wants to hear them. No challenge, no fun. It's more fun to imagine wild strengths of magic than the cold laws of logic. God to them is not what god is for you. It's more than an explanation to the believers. It's faith they hold onto. And I envy them for that... they are never alone. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Science doesn't explain things in the way the human mind wants to hear them. No challenge, no fun. It's more fun to imagine wild strengths of magic than the cold laws of logic. I think you're talking about the female mind, sister... Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Because there doesn't seem to be any moral principles at play, only mathematical ones. No offense, b4r, but it seems mighty egotistical to assume that you understand or could comprehend even a tiny bit of the moral principles of an omnipotent, omiscient, eternal being. Just because you don't comprehend the moral principles at play doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm just SAYING. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Science doesn't explain things in the way the human mind wants to hear them. No challenge, no fun. It's more fun to imagine wild strengths of magic than the cold laws of logic. God to them is not what god is for you. It's more than an explanation to the believers. It's faith they hold onto. And I envy them for that... they are never alone. Actually, science explains things exactly in the way the human mind wants to hear them -- in terms of concepts that are comprehensible to us finite, linear thinkers. I mean, as alpha said, in order to move forward in science you accept the assumptions. Which I am not saying are wrong, but perhaps not as all encompassing as we would like to believe. Heck, just watch an episode of "Nova Science Now" and you get to have a short, media-friendly lesson on how science has evolved as our knowledge base grows. It is a work in progress. A wise man knows how little he knows. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 A wise man knows how little he knows.What a wake up call everyone will have once we all discover that God and science walk hand in hand and are completely intertwined..... Once the ability is handed over to us to understand all things, we'll be walking around with flat foreheads...... Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 God and science walk hand in hand and are completely intertwined..... If God does really exist then he/she/it is not doing a very good job. Link to post Share on other sites
Craig Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 If God does really exist then he/she/it is not doing a very good job. ^ Bait Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 ^ Bait Agreed......not worth it either.... Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Agreed......not worth it either.... where was God a few days ago at the Amish school? Five young girls lost their lives, and maybe more will. God is incompetent. With all his powerful tools he/she/it should be able to stop these atrocities. And what is God doing about Iraq and DarFour? WTF! Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 where was God a few days ago at the Amish school? Five young girls lost their lives, and maybe more will. God is incompetent. With all his powerful tools he/she/it should be able to stop these atrocities. And what is God doing about Iraq and DarFour? WTF! Ostensibly, even ifGod was doing something, we wouldn't know, and there would be no clear indiciation. I don't understand why people insist that they should be able to understand the motivations of a being completely alien to them. Of course you don't know why God does what God does...or even what it is exactly, that God does do. that's confusing. Link to post Share on other sites
Ariadne Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hey, that dated the big bang to 15 billion years ago Wow, that's a heck lot of years. Imagine all the changes we've made to the earth in the past few years. Ariadne Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 where was God a few days ago at the Amish school? Five young girls lost their lives, and maybe more will. God is incompetent. With all his powerful tools he/she/it should be able to stop these atrocities. And what is God doing about Iraq and DarFour? Oh that's rich. God gave us the rules. Said 'do this and life will be good'. Does anybody listen? No. And you seriously think that people should completely ignore all the sensible things they were told and THEN get rescued from their own stupidity constantly? You have a job, right? You think your manager, having trained you, would then constantly bail you out every time you screwed up? Noplace in the Bible does it say 'God will rescue you from every stupid thing you do, even if it means the stupid things you do cause pain to others'. Anyway, what's the big deal? The afterlife has no pain or suffering. Life here is hard and unpleasant. So those dead folks all got out of this life sooner and are having a much better existence than those of us here. How, exactly, is this unfair? Link to post Share on other sites
Author burning 4 revenge Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 Ostensibly, even ifGod was doing something, we wouldn't know, and there would be no clear indiciation. I don't understand why people insist that they should be able to understand the motivations of a being completely alien to them. Of course you don't know why God does what God does...or even what it is exactly, that God does do. that's confusing. That's confusing alright BO. And it doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense either. It always strikes me when incredibly intelligent people surrender completely to irrational emotion when it comes to the subject of their "God". Link to post Share on other sites
Author burning 4 revenge Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 It's faith they hold onto. And I envy them for that... they are never alone. Yes. I agree. Link to post Share on other sites
Author burning 4 revenge Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 If God does really exist then he/she/it is not doing a very good job. If God exists he sucks. Link to post Share on other sites
Author burning 4 revenge Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 No offense, b4r, but it seems mighty egotistical to assume that you understand or could comprehend even a tiny bit of the moral principles of an omnipotent, omiscient, eternal being. Just because you don't comprehend the moral principles at play doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm just SAYING. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both willing and able? Then why is there evil? Is he neither willing, nor able? Then why call him God? Epicurus 3rd Century B.C. It aint the parts of the Bible that I don't understnad that bother me. It's the parts I do understand. Mark Twain I'm just sayin' Link to post Share on other sites
Author burning 4 revenge Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 Religion may be nothing more than a means of encouraging (or dictating) certain behavioural standards. Would your argument be that society doesn't require the construction and application of moral standards, B4R? Wouldn't that just result in a Lord of the Flies environment? Nihilism is probably a lot less poetic and seductive in practice than it is in theory. Particularly when taken up by brutish segments of society who would no doubt obliterate the intellectual nihilists off the planet in the blink of an eye. Since the masses of poeple are iconstant, full of unruly desires, passionate and reckless of consequence, they must be filled with fear to keep them in order. The ancients did well therefore, to invent gods and the belief in punishment after death. Polybius 2nd Century B.C. Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Since the masses of poeple are iconstant, full of unruly desires, passionate and reckless of consequence, they must be filled with fear to keep them in order. The ancients did well therefore, to invent gods and the belief in punishment after death. Polybius 2nd Century B.C. Yep. That pretty much sums up my perspective. Link to post Share on other sites
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