How would you feel in a sexless marriage?

[Guest]

It all boils down to science really.

 

Men, if you women want give you sex, because face it we are wired that way, you have choices.

 

1.Accept it and live without sex, or only have it on her terms.

2. Divorce her and hope you find a woman who is sexually compatiable with you, that has no emotions or at least supressed emotions, so that wont get in the way and you can get your sex all you want. Because it is what makers the world go around, right?

3. Or get some on the side.

 

Women the same goes for you. If it is YOu that wants sex and your husband or partner doesn't, the choices are the same for you.

 

Its science, its none of this long long posts trying to explain to people HOW it really is. When its really simple, you have choices, and you make up your mind what it is you are or are not going to do. Also it shouldn't be a battle or struggle that lasts for years either. Its really all up to what you will and will not tolerate.

[Ladyjane14]

Damn! I always suspected this, but somehow it just seemed too impossible to believe. Now there it is, in black and white.

 

Just remember Tommy, that the problem is more fluid than static. Female libidos are up and down over the course of a woman's life. There are some psychological reasons why a woman might commit herself to sexual avoidance, things like a past history of rape or molestation for example. But otherwise, even if you traded her in for another model, you're likely to end up facing the same problem again later on down the pike.

 

(...and p.s. I'm just a "crazy anonymous internet person" like everybody else. No special credentials, I assure you.

Dude, take every opinion you see with a grain of salt. YOU are the only one who can properly guage your situation. )

[cranium]

WWIU:I agree with you, but in my situation it's not that at all. I feel sexy, and I have self confidence...I just want HIM to give ME that "I want you" look. I want him to desire ME.

 

Here's an example (and I don't take it personally because I know him well, and I know he loves me, he's just not the most sexual person at times) I come out of the shower, naked and walk past him, rub up against him and reach down between his legs. 8/10 the response I get is, "not now." Well, when DOES that now come?

 

...Just sometimes it would be nice to get a passionate kiss, saying I love you is wonderful, but FEELING it in action (in bed I mean) is another...

 

Bingo! Likewise, I want my wife to give ME that "I want you" look; I want her to desire ME.

 

Ladyjane:There's no reason NOT to work with her and to encourage her to work with you.

 

Lj, your post about us sitting around with our thumbs up our asses got me thinking. Over the past 2 1/2 years, since my wife asked for a separation (before I discovered her A), I have taken the following actions and encouraged her to work with me -

 

Immediately got us into MC. I've read pretty much everything I could at the marriagebuilders website more than once. Printed out copies for her to read. We both completed the EN's questionnaires over 2 years ago and to this day my Sexual Fulfillment responses have not changed, nor have they been addressed. I'll pull her questionnaire out from time to time to reread what she wrote to make certain I'm doing my best to address her needs.

 

In addition, I obtained and read the following and asked her to as well - The 5 Love Languages, The Mastery of Love, The Way to Love, The 4 Agreements, If the Buddha Married, Sex and the Perfect Lover and most recently Extraordinary Sex Now: A Couple's Guide to Intimacy. Now, she has read some of these, but not all. But, most importantly to me, she hasn't been proactive in any of this. At no time has she brought anything to me and only reluctantly does she read any of it.

 

Ladyjane:His dissatisfaction at the loss of passion combined with the fact that I hadn't given him ENOUGH CAUSE to actually pick up and leave, very nearly broke his resolve. I'm thinking his master-plan was to cheat on me until either I caught him and tossed him out, or he worked up the nerve to get out on his own.

 

The lack of passion did break my resolve, but likewise, she had not giving me enough cause to leave. I also haven't worked up the nerve to get out on my own. It's not what I want. Change is expensive; financially it would be devastating. I sure as hell don't want to put my children through it. Nor do I want to be weekend dad AND she would get the kids. I have a friend in the military who returned from active duty to find his wife 3 months pregnant with another man's child. They divorced AND she got their only daughter; how's that for justice?

 

Ladyjane:Do you think it's possible that some of you guys are a little too nice for your own good?

 

More than possible.

[Scrivdog]

But otherwise, even if you traded her in for another model, you're likely to end up facing the same problem again later on down the pike.

 

Most men I think realize too late that marriage = celibacy once they have that first child and a hefty mortgage. There's just too many men going through this for it to be normal, or to be all their fault every time.

 

All you have to do is start a thread like this on almost any relationship type forum and it'll become a mega thread.

 

I don't know what the solution is, but clearly the 50%+ divorce rate and 70% adultery rate is too large to just blame it all in racy cable TV shows.

 

Moose's predicament is particularly painful for me to read about because he seems like a genuinely good guy. He's got deep religious principles, seems to be an involved parent, and he's a loving husband. And even he's now struggling with the notion of staying practically celibate for the benefit of his family. And the worst thing is, he has nowhere to turn. His wife faces very little, if any societal pressure to change. In fact, she can count on many pinning the blame on Moose himself. But if he divorces or has an affair .. he'll be tarred an feathered. And whether he admits or not, that's partially what's keeping him in line

 

Thanks to the internet, I'm hoping women get a chance to hear the distress of the other side from someone other than the husband. It really took the internet to realize how widespread this problem is. Before, I thought it was just me.

[Ladyjane14]

Lj, your post about us sitting around with our thumbs up our asses got me thinking. Over the past 2 1/2 years, since my wife asked for a separation (before I discovered her A), I have taken the following actions and encouraged her to work with me ....

 

Cranium, I know you've done ALOT.

 

That comment was just in reference to the issue of "initiation". It just doesn't make any sense to me, why a guy would keep internalizing this issue to the point where he won't even ask for what he wants. Particularly if that guy ALREADY has put in as much work as you and Moose have in and effort to understand women.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Do you think it's possible that some of you guys are a little too nice for your own good?

 

Ya know, during our recovery period. I did let my alpha male come out a litle more. And ya know what. I got 2 responses that I still remember.

 

once she said...."I kinda like you standing up for yourself and not taking my crap"

 

BUT..she also said at one time..when I wasnt doing something she wanted or not being overly attentive to a particular situ..she said..."ahhh, I dont like this new you, you dont do what I want"

 

this is what I got out of it. She repsected the "MAN UP" side....but she also missed the NICE guy attributes at the same time.

 

hence what you said about being all 3 men rolled up into one. but its up to me to determine which role to play given the situation. Thats what I need to work on.

 

 

 

 

In Thumbs case, his wife came here to LS freaking out a while back when she realized that she'd finally gone too far and he was willing to end the marriage. At the time, she was VERY enthusiastic on the idea of making the marriage work. But apparently hasn't quite carried through on making the final leap in her mindset so that she's able to process male-based data.

 

she is a very stubbord person. she has made great strides, she has....but her pride gets in the way ALOT.

 

Just this morning, I had a talk with her. We are having some "issues" wiht the rec room construction. mainly manhours given the amount of work performed. I was concerned wiht the production and voiced that concern to my wife. I told her, I will handle it, and she agreed to allow me that part. I told her that I will handle the "means and methods" of the construction and she can handle the "decorating", like trim style, and stain type, painting, furniture, etc.

 

Not even 20 minutes went by ...and she says something about the hours the guys will work and if they will get so and so done today. I told her I would give her the guys cell number and she can call and ask him. OH....no she didnt want to do that...so i had to remind her of our earlier talk. I looked at her and said....honey, you didnt even make it one day without saying something. She stopped right there.

 

see what I mean...she is just plain stubborn. I asked her to please let me handle it...and she just couldnt do it... But I am used to it....sorta...it still gets me going...and still brings out resentment that she just doesnt get it.

 

She will come around....and we will be OK. We have lots of work....but as you said....women come and go in waves (not jsut sex drive, but all things)....it amazes me....I feel like I am always linear in my demeanor and outlook....but women...are all over the place, in everything...but thats the nature of each of us....both sexes need to understand that....but its damm hard to do..

[PandorasBox]

I asked her to please let me handle it...and she just couldnt do it...

 

Maybe you answered your own questions reguarding the sex issues. Sounds like its a control issue for her. She just couldn't let you handle it after she said she would let you.

 

Maybe sex is the same way. Its a control issue for her. Its done on her terms maybe? SOMETIMES how one acts outside the bedroom may be the way they act in it too?

[ThumbingMyWay]

I asked her to please let me handle it...and she just couldnt do it...

 

Maybe you answered your own questions reguarding the sex issues. Sounds like its a control issue for her. She just couldn't let you handle it after she said she would let you.

 

Maybe sex is the same way. Its a control issue for her. Its done on her terms maybe? SOMETIMES how one acts outside the bedroom may be the way they act in it too?

 

OH..I agree with you. She does like to be in control. When she isnt, I see the pridefull side of her. She just has this thing about men...."aint no man gonna tell me what to do" attitude. That is what I need to change in our marriage. I need her to comprimise on that. She can have that tude for men in general, but when it comes to her husband, she needs to have balance, bounderies and respect. I am working on it....I need to get creative..

 

why are you women so tricky?

[Pink_Tulip]

You know, LJ brought up an excellent point about right fighters. I am one and it is a daily struggle for me to keep that in check. Sometimes I have to put myself in 'time out' b/c I know logically that I am being ridiculous, but emotionally I just want to keep on. We women are so freaking difficult sometimes, I mean seriously, I get on my own nerves on occasion.

 

I don't know why I was open to 'getting it.' That is not like me. In fact, when LJ mentioned above that she might be more thick headed than me, I about fell out of my chair. I will print that and hightlight it, and give it to H. He doesn't believe anyone on this earth could be more stubborn than me. This will be a revelation of sorts in our household!

 

For people who are right fighters, like the wives of these men, what has to be done to knock down that wall? B/c speaking from experience, that is a huge wall. And if you don't acknowledge it is a problem, there is no reason to change it. If you don't change it, you will never see your H's side of the yard. And that means, no 'getting it,' no sex for the H. It is just a vicious circle.

 

Like LJ, my H and I were on the brink of divorce at one point. The turning point in counseling was when we both finally started seeing things from the others perspective, which is hard when you have years of anger and resentment built up. But once you can do that, it is amazing how much your relationship can grow, how much better and more intimate it can be. And I stand by what I said earlier, I honestly believe that most women WANT that with their husbands desperately. I think the issue is, they are terrified to give up control to get it, and you can't get it unless you trust your H enough to let go of all that 'right' crap.

 

So my epiphony is, maybe LJ and I are ahead of ourselves. Maybe the first step isn't 'getting it,' maybe the first step is getting these women to be open to 'getting it' in the first place.

I will have to reflect more on how and why I was able to open up like that, but I will post more as the thoughts and memories come.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm just trying to illustrate a point. A woman of low-libido ALREADY feels objectified. She doesn't WANT sex. She's not in the mood for it. It feels gross to have sexual contact when you're not in the least bit aroused. She's gonna grab the first reason she sees NOT to do it and run.

 

Men don't have sex when they don't want it. We've had quite a few women come through here lately telling us just that. If they're not aroused, they're not going to jump through hoops to get that way. And yet women seem to be expected to do just that. Not only does she need to mentally shift gears to get "in the mood", but now it appears she needs to remember to do that out of the clear blue sky and often enough to suit her mate.

 

Now, is she supposed to set the timer on her watch? ...use a calandar? ...or what?

I understand your point, LJ. I can either be right (in a prideful way) OR I can have sex - choose one of the two.

You guys don't have any idea how nasty it feels to have someone touch you intimately when you don't want it. It's all you can do not to ball your fist up and punch that guy in the head. You do it just to shut him up and keep the peace, but during the time it takes to get it done... you hate his guts for making you feel that way.

If a woman feels this way, the question of who initiates seems like a moot point. It's going to feel "nasty" either way and the resulting rejection is going to leave the poor guy with no option except to become a LoveShack poster

 

Mr. Lucky

[ThumbingMyWay]

You know, LJ brought up an excellent point about right fighters. I am one and it is a daily struggle for me to keep that in check. Sometimes I have to put myself in 'time out' b/c I know logically that I am being ridiculous, but emotionally I just want to keep on. We women are so freaking difficult sometimes, I mean seriously, I get on my own nerves on occasion.

 

I don't know why I was open to 'getting it.' That is not like me. In fact, when LJ mentioned above that she might be more thick headed than me, I about fell out of my chair. I will print that and hightlight it, and give it to H. He doesn't believe anyone on this earth could be more stubborn than me. This will be a revelation of sorts in our household!

 

For people who are right fighters, like the wives of these men, what has to be done to knock down that wall? B/c speaking from experience, that is a huge wall. And if you don't acknowledge it is a problem, there is no reason to change it. If you don't change it, you will never see your H's side of the yard. And that means, no 'getting it,' no sex for the H. It is just a vicious circle.

 

Like LJ, my H and I were on the brink of divorce at one point. The turning point in counseling was when we both finally started seeing things from the others perspective, which is hard when you have years of anger and resentment built up. But once you can do that, it is amazing how much your relationship can grow, how much better and more intimate it can be. And I stand by what I said earlier, I honestly believe that most women WANT that with their husbands desperately. I think the issue is, they are terrified to give up control to get it, and you can't get it unless you trust your H enough to let go of all that 'right' crap.

 

So my epiphony is, maybe LJ and I are ahead of ourselves. Maybe the first step isn't 'getting it,' maybe the first step is getting these women to be open to 'getting it' in the first place.

I will have to reflect more on how and why I was able to open up like that, but I will post more as the thoughts and memories come.

 

you, LJ and my wife are 3 peas in a pod as far as stubborness goes. But we wife doesnt get "it" yet.

 

And she does have trust issues....i guess that goes hand in hand wiht the control issue. I just wish she could let go sometimes...not all the time...but just to know when to let the gard down and be OK wiht it. Maybe over time, when she sees she can trust me...it will be easier as time goes on....and she will then get of "AHA" moment...

[Pink_Tulip]

Mr. Lucky, just out of curiosity, why are you so concerned with LJ's relationship with her H? It seems they have both worked out a compromise that works for them. No compromise is going to be 100% perfect for both people, but you get as close as you can and you are happy about it. I trust that if LJ's H was frustrated over her lack of initiation, she'd be honest enough to talk about those issues in this thread. But I don't see it. It seems to me you are putting your feelings onto her marriage. I understand your frustration, but I don't understand why you are picking at LJ rather than working on your own situation. It honestly feels to me like you are using LJ's sitaution as a reason to neglect your own. Kind of like, 'Well, if my wife is never going to initiate just like LJ, why bother?' sort of attitude. You are projecting your own feelings onto her sitaution as a defense mechanism. Again, from someone outside looking in, that is what it looks like. And I mean that in the kindest way possible, not trying to attack, just trying to understand.

[Ladyjane14]

If a woman feels this way, the question of who initiates seems like a moot point. It's going to feel "nasty" either way and the resulting rejection is going to leave the poor guy with no option except to become a LoveShack poster

 

What I've learned though, is that a woman can overcome that "nasty" feeling from within. She can LEARN to put herself in the right frame of mind. THIS is her part of the bargain. It's not always easy work, but I think maybe it's good compensation for the guy having to pick up the slack on initiating.

 

The key to it is much as Pink has said here:

...we both finally started seeing things from the others perspective, which is hard when you have years of anger and resentment built up. But once you can do that, it is amazing how much your relationship can grow, how much better and more intimate it can be.

 

Angry men spit out alot of chaff mixed in with the wheat. If we listen closely enough, he is almost always literal in the words he really means... but his anger compels him often enough to say a bunch of crap he doesn't too.

 

Resentments build up in both man and woman. (Women will often say a bunch of stuff they don't mean as well. )

 

When we get rid of the resentments and start understanding and empathizing with one another, we can deal with the "wheat" rather that the "chaff . Communications get cleared up, and it's possible to actively trust one another again.

 

If she perceives her husband's sexual interest as a manifestation of loving emotion... she's not going to feel objectified. It's possible at that point for her to open herself up to sharing in a physical way, and to CHOOSE to enjoy the experience.

[MySugaree]

The most sex complaints, at least here, come from frustrated husbands concerning their non-participating wives. Sometimes the posts have that Mars/Venus feel.

 

But we guys aren't in the clear. According to a recent National Institutes of Health funded study, written about on CNN.com, 18% of U.S. men suffer from ED. (None of them LS regulars!)

 

These ED guys are, for the most part, junk food and TV junkies, inveterate couch potatoes and/or diabetics. Of special note: 90% of the ED men had cardiovascular disease risk factors including high blood pressure, poor cholesterol levels and smoking.

 

Findings were based health and nutrition data from 2,126 male-respondents.

 

So it appears that many wives/girl friends aren't getting enough nookie, either: they're just more stoic.

[Ladyjane14]

you, LJ and my wife are 3 peas in a pod as far as stubborness goes.

 

:lmao: Then we are all in good company.

 

You know Thumbs, I've thought long and hard about what I would say to a wife like yours. But in the end, I'm right with Pink... if I had a magic formula, I'd write a book and make my fortune.

 

Tell her THIS though:

 

To love a man without showing it in a physical way... is like trying to teach algebra to your dog. You can talk until you turn blue... but you're never going to make him understand it.

[ThumbingMyWay]

If she perceives her husband's sexual interest as a manifestation of loving emotion... she's not going to feel objectified. It's possible at that point for her to open herself up to sharing in a physical way, and to CHOOSE to enjoy the experience.

 

you should right a book.

 

more women need to hear your wisdom:love:

[Very_Confused]

The most sex complaints, at least here, come from frustrated husbands concerning their non-participating wives. Sometimes the posts have that Mars/Venus feel.

 

But we guys aren't in the clear. According to a recent National Institutes of Health funded study, written about on CNN.com, 18% of U.S. men suffer from ED. (None of them LS regulars!)

 

These ED guys are, for the most part, junk food and TV junkies, inveterate couch potatoes and/or diabetics. Of special note: 90% of the ED men had cardiovascular disease risk factors including high blood pressure, poor cholesterol levels and smoking.

 

Findings were based health and nutrition data from 2,126 male-respondents.

 

So it appears that many wives/girl friends aren't getting enough nookie, either: they're just more stoic.

 

I definitely wouldn't consider myself stoic. I try to talk about it but it just seems like there aren't as many discussions where the tables are turned and it's the woman craving what her husband isn't providing.

[Mr. Lucky]

Mr. Lucky, just out of curiosity, why are you so concerned with LJ's relationship with her H? It seems they have both worked out a compromise that works for them. No compromise is going to be 100% perfect for both people, but you get as close as you can and you are happy about it. I trust that if LJ's H was frustrated over her lack of initiation, she'd be honest enough to talk about those issues in this thread. But I don't see it. It seems to me you are putting your feelings onto her marriage. I understand your frustration, but I don't understand why you are picking at LJ rather than working on your own situation. It honestly feels to me like you are using LJ's sitaution as a reason to neglect your own. Kind of like, 'Well, if my wife is never going to initiate just like LJ, why bother?' sort of attitude. You are projecting your own feelings onto her sitaution as a defense mechanism. Again, from someone outside looking in, that is what it looks like. And I mean that in the kindest way possible, not trying to attack, just trying to understand.

Pink, I don't feel attacked by your question, probably because your analysis is spot on. I am using LJ as sort of a surrogate because my wife seems to feel the same way when it commes to initiation. She has said to me "What does it matter who starts things as long as it gets started?" In that context, I was struck by LJ's comment that she rarely initiates and am struggling to understand why she feels that way and how she justifies that approach. I appreciate the honesty in her answers and admire the progress she has made in her marriage. As I said before, she's ahead of me in that regard

 

Mr. Lucky

[Pink_Tulip]

Pink, I don't feel attacked by your question, probably because your analysis is spot on. I am using LJ as sort of a surrogate because my wife seems to feel the same way when it commes to initiation. She has said to me "What does it matter who starts things as long as it gets started?" In that context, I was struck by LJ's comment that she rarely initiates and am struggling to understand why she feels that way and how she justifies that approach. I appreciate the honesty in her answers and admire the progress she has made in her marriage. As I said before, she's ahead of me in that regard

 

Mr. Lucky

 

That is understandable. I think most people use others' situation to work out their own feelings about what is going on at home.

 

Is your wife interested in working on this with you, or is she just wanting to give you the pity f*ck now and again and expects that should keep you satisified?

 

I know it sounds from my writing that I had my aha moment and the next day we were screwing like rabbits, lol, but it took time to adjust to my new understanding. If your wife does want to work on it but is just shy or has ideas in her head, like good girls don't initiate, maybe you can work out a system like I explained to Moose? Have her start initiating by doing non confrontational things like, pulling the covers down on the bed. She doesn't have to say anything to you, but she can make her desires known in a safe way. Eventually when she builds trust and feels safe, she can be more forward.

 

If she is stuck in believing that your desire is your problem, well, I'll get back to you after some more introspection on this, but I am getting more discouraged for all you husbands by the day.

[tommyr]

What does it matter who starts things as long as it gets started?"

 

If initiation is your only issue, you sure do have some High-Class problems.

I gotta vote with Mrs Lucky on this one.

Ever heard the phrase: Its better to be Happy than Right

[JackJack]

I'm supposed to be tieing the knot in the Spring, in May. I so hope I don't go through what some of you are. I feel bad for alot of you.

[StayClose]

I wish LS had a function that would make this thread pop up on your computer 10 years from now.

 

At that time you will either relate to it - or be very releaved that it doesn't.

[Mr. Lucky]

If initiation is your only issue, you sure do have some High-Class problems.

I gotta vote with Mrs Lucky on this one.

Ever heard the phrase: Its better to be Happy than Right

Your tally is duly noted. I can't decide between two things:

 

1). You guys are making it sound much more simple than it is.

 

or

 

2). I've made it much harder than it has to be.

 

I'm sure one of those is true

 

Mr. Lucky

[Pink_Tulip]

I'm supposed to be tieing the knot in the Spring, in May. I so hope I don't go through what some of you are. I feel bad for alot of you.

 

Just out of curiosity, after all you have seen and read, why are you leaving it up to chance? Why not have your fiance read this thread, talk about the importance of sex in a marriage, make a commitment to take care of eachother's needs, and be open to your partner bringing up a concern without getting defensive? IMO, that would solve 90% of this. Make sure your partner gets it BEFORE marriage, and continue that dialogue throughout the marriage?

[Shattered Reality]

It does seem that there are a lot more men with this problem than women... or maybe it's just that women are more reluctant to talk about it? I'm not sure. Being a woman who is not getting any from her husband, it hurts to sit around and listen to my girlfriends talk about how their husbands are all over them and can't get enough and wish they could get some peace, and it makes me feel like there is something wrong with me that my husband isn't all over me as well.

 

I mean, deep down, I know it's not me, but when you are rejected time and time again you start to think that maybe it is. My self confidence has gone down the tubes. I try to tell myself that our relationship isn't all about sex, but it taints everything else somehow. I dont' feel as close to him, and somehow all our other problems seem to be magnified. Maybe that's because I'm bitter about it. I want to be desired.

 

My question is, when do you draw the line and say enough is enough? I have ALWAYS had a high sex drive, and I can't live like this, with my self worth in the toilet. We have had sex 3 times in the past 6 years. I initiated it each time, not to mention the countless times where I tried to and he would turn me down. I've asked him to see a doctor, which he did and found out he has low testosterone, but he won't do anything about it! Refuses to take the meds to fix the problem. I have tried to get us into counceling... he refuses to follow up with it. It's like it's not important to him, and it hurts.

 

So now I'm the glorified roommate. I do chores around the house. I take care of the kids. I work. Beyond that... there is nothing. He says I love you, and I get split second kisses on the lips. No other intimacy at all. It's like living with a hole inside me... something is missing and I don't know how much longer I can exist without that before it consumes me and I just die inside. Sometimes I think I'm halfway there... sometimes I don't even care