Mr. Lucky Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Situation Update: Last Saturday I posted about the great talk with my wife and our agreement to work on a better sex life. Now if it were up to me, we would be getting on every night (well, maybe 5X per week) but we negotiated to try for 2X week. Less than our pre-kids years but I can live with that. Maybe I am being too strict here (counting days and all) but our last "event" was past Tuesday so that makes a full week gone by right? Tuesdays she has a full day off: stayhome mom but I literally FORCED her to put the kids in allday/afterschool daycare Tuesdays.. hoping her to be less burned out... hoping she will be more into ME... its helped alot. Usually I try to sneak home for a lunchtime Tues. tryst. Now I have always told her this arrangement was a pure luxury, and that any of a million things would interfere with our Tuesday lunch (sick kid, car in the shop, work meeting, travel, etc). so today is snowday schools closed = lunch canceled. I certainly don't blame her for today's snow closure. But I consider it a major problem that our entire sex life hinges on scheduling perfection to have Tues lunch date. I've told her we need to find a way to get together some other time(s) during the week (gee, maybe sex on a weekend evening could be nice? who ever heard of that!). Instead, every nite she is in full battle gear (sweatsuit+bathrobe+blanket wrap) and lately shes been sleeping on the sofa (says she wants to read late but not keep me awake). So our cycle continues. I get grumpy, bitter, resentful. I spend longer days at work. I resort to porn. I stop bothering to chase her. I dont ask her "how was your day" because I stop caring. And tomorrow (Valentine's day) I am content to bring her a plain vanilla Hallmark card. HOW DO WE BREAK THIS CYCLE! Years ago, when I sold appliances, I observed a curious thing about some of my co-workers. They would do all the work with a customer, explain all the features, tout all the benefits, demonstate all the controls and then...nothing. Why? Because they never asked for the sale! They never said "Can I ring you up for that?", they waited instead for customer to decide to buy it... I see some of the same in your post. Instead of all this mind reading based on your wife's attire and location, why not wait until the kids are in bed and walk up to her (bed or sofa, doesn't matter) and say "Let's have sex tonite". If she say's no, smile, kiss her goodnight and do the same thing the next night. And the next night. And the next night... One of two things will happen. Either she'll say yes two or three nights out of seven OR it will highlight your problem in such a way that it would be impossible to deny its existence. Doesn't sound like you have too much to lose, try it for the next seven nights and see if you do better than you've done in the last seven... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Scrivdog Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Sorry, that's just ridiculous. Years ago, when I sold appliances, I observed a curious thing about some of my co-workers. They would do all the work with a customer, explain all the features, tout all the benefits, demonstate all the controls and then...nothing. Why? Because they never asked for the sale! They never said "Can I ring you up for that?", they waited instead for customer to decide to buy it... I see some of the same in your post. Instead of all this mind reading based on your wife's attire and location, why not wait until the kids are in bed and walk up to her (bed or sofa, doesn't matter) and say "Let's have sex tonite". If she say's no, smile, kiss her goodnight and do the same thing the next night. And the next night. And the next night... One of two things will happen. Either she'll say yes two or three nights out of seven OR it will highlight your problem in such a way that it would be impossible to deny its existence. Doesn't sound like you have too much to lose, try it for the next seven nights and see if you do better than you've done in the last seven... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
mental_traveller Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Your situation may be different that mine. But I doubt it. My wife long ago let go of the concept of passion with me. Being a passionate person myself this has pretty much sucked for me. For a long time I let it ruin my life but in the last few years or so I've moved on. But the net result of it is that she's completely unappealing to me now. I see other men with their wives in public places. In most cases I can see in their eyes that they're just barely able to tolerate their lives. They used to see it in mine as well. But now I also notice those men who have detached from their mates and are just going through the motions. They no longer give a **** about the person next to them. They've moved on and have no real attachment to the wife, even though they still care about their family / their social status / whatever that keeps them from leaving her at a rest stop in the middle of nowhere. Look at these mens' eyes the next time you're at the mall. See if you see what I see. Agree. It's depressing how many people are in these "dead" marriages. Even the "good" ones, many are more like friendly toleration & companionship than anything romantic. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Sorry, that's just ridiculous.Maybe not ridiculous, just not possible. At least not for me and my wife. If I walked up to her and said that, she'd give me a disgusted look and respond with something like, "Is that all you think about??!!", "Not very romantic at all", it just wouldn't fly. And yes, I have tried variations of the same thing but it always comes off as if I'm begging. More or less, you could say that I am, and that's just not going to happen anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
mental_traveller Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Everyone is talking about how to "make things work". Why do we have to do that? Shouldn't we instead only make permanent commitments (kids, living together, marriage etc) with people whom we *don't* have to put in effort to make things work? Where it comes naturally, arising from true compatibility, instead of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It's easy to make the mistake of connecting too deeply with someone not truly compatible with you. It can be a lot of effort and struggle to rectify such a mistake. But isn't that better than spending the rest of your life as an unhappy, celibate wage-slave for someone who fights with you, belittles you, and doesn't even appreciate you anymore? Screw that! Once you get rid of something that causes you stress, it's amazing how quickly you learn to do without it. I think a lot of these people complaining are just making excuses for not taking the unpleasant but decisive and necessary action to become free again. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Maybe not ridiculous, just not possible. At least not for me and my wife. If I walked up to her and said that, she'd give me a disgusted look and respond with something like, "Is that all you think about??!!", "Not very romantic at all", it just wouldn't fly. And yes, I have tried variations of the same thing but it always comes off as if I'm begging. More or less, you could say that I am, and that's just not going to happen anymore. Taking a stab at this in a very friendly way................. maybe your wife is still angry about your not so long ago misdeeds... I don't know the details or time line - but the drinking and such? Perhaps she is thinking.... : he treated me like that and now he wants this from me? NO way! I am still feeling hurt by him. You might be over it and turned a new leaf but perhaps she is not over it as of yet? Link to post Share on other sites
Very_Confused Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I think a lot of these people complaining are just making excuses for not taking the unpleasant but decisive and necessary action to become free again. Or maybe they feel that the relationship is worth trying to save and are unwilling to just give it up without a fight. Giving up is easy. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Or maybe they feel that the relationship is worth trying to save and are unwilling to just give it up without a fight. Giving up is easy. well if you stick it out for the right reasons it is worth it. Maybe because you actually care for your SO. Because you want to give more to them. If you are hanging on because you are afraid what others will think.... that is just wrong. Throwing in the towel can be hard if you are not in love, simply because you may feel like a failure to yourself. Some value the trappings of M that more than their M's themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Taking a stab at this in a very friendly way................. maybe your wife is still angry about your not so long ago misdeeds... I don't know the details or time line - but the drinking and such? Perhaps she is thinking.... : he treated me like that and now he wants this from me? NO way! I am still feeling hurt by him. You might be over it and turned a new leaf but perhaps she is not over it as of yet?Thanks a4a. I have thought of this, and it's been adressed. She is constantly building me up on my successes, praising me for who I've become, how far I've went, how proud she is......yada yada..... So she's either being extremely sarcastic, and I'm not picking it up, or her resentment is a lot deeper than I realized...... Besides, even if she did have a lot of resentment, I didn't fix my problems just for her. I had to want to fix them for myself to be successful at it. It comes down, (again), to her wanting to do the same...... Link to post Share on other sites
StayClose Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Instead of all this mind reading based on your wife's attire and location, why not wait until the kids are in bed and walk up to her (bed or sofa, doesn't matter) and say "Let's have sex tonite". If she say's no, smile, kiss her goodnight and do the same thing the next night. And the next night. And the next night... One of two things will happen. Either she'll say yes two or three nights out of seven OR it will highlight your problem in such a way that it would be impossible to deny its existence. Doesn't sound like you have too much to lose, try it for the next seven nights and see if you do better than you've done in the last seven... Tried that.. Here's what happens. On the third night she says "I DIDN'T WANT TO LAST NIGHT. I DIDN'T WANT TO THE NIGHT BEFORE LAST. WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU THINK I'D WANT TO TONIGHT? WHEN YOU KEEP BUGGING ME AND BUGGING ME AND BUGGING ME, IT MAKES ME NEVER WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU AGAIN!" So I'm back to either waiting for her to initiate, or trying to interpret her body language and nonverbal cues and then taking a risk by trying to initiate - or take the safe route and look at porn instead. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Thanks a4a. I have thought of this, and it's been adressed. She is constantly building me up on my successes, praising me for who I've become, how far I've went, how proud she is......yada yada..... So she's either being extremely sarcastic, and I'm not picking it up, or her resentment is a lot deeper than I realized...... Besides, even if she did have a lot of resentment, I didn't fix my problems just for her. I had to want to fix them for myself to be successful at it. It comes down, (again), to her wanting to do the same...... have you asked her if she still has lingering feelings about this? Your behavior showed her that you did not care how you effected her life. And maybe she thinks you did only change for yourself...... not for her too. I tell ya what, I still hold some resentment towards my H and it may come out here and there for things he did to hurt me....... and I will tell him how wonderful he is and praise him....... but that does not make that hurt go away. Have you really asked her to forgive you? I don't know how bad you were but if it was that bad I can see where it could still be the problem for her. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Have you really asked her to forgive you?Yep, of course.And maybe she thinks you did only change for yourself...... not for her too.If she did feel this way, she's not the type to openly admit it. I somehow doubt she does given the complete turn around on how I treat her now. Link to post Share on other sites
Very_Confused Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 well if you stick it out for the right reasons it is worth it. Maybe because you actually care for your SO. Because you want to give more to them. If you are hanging on because you are afraid what others will think.... that is just wrong. Throwing in the towel can be hard if you are not in love, simply because you may feel like a failure to yourself. Some value the trappings of M that more than their M's themselves. What you say is very true and I'm sure many people stay in a M for those very reasons. I have felt all of those things myself at one point or another in my marriage. During the first several years of my M I felt like my husband and I were soulmates and I couldn't imagine a life without him. Then everything flew out the window. The respect, love and intimacy was gone and resentment, bitterness and distance took it's place. My husband and I have separated twice during our almost 8 year marriage. The first time (5 years ago) I worried too much about what other people thought. I felt like a failure, again. My husband felt an obligation to our family. So we reconciled without addressing any of the problems that caused the separation to begin with. Naturally, things didn't improve and we quickly fell back into the same old rut and continued that way for another 3-1/2 years until he decided to leave early last year. That separation lasted for 7 months, mainly because I refused to even consider reconciliation for most of that time. I knew it would be a repeat of the last time. We would not address any of the issues and fall right back into that deep hole that we've been in for the last 5 years. I even made that prediction as part of the reason why I wouldn't discuss it for so long. But, eventually, I agreed to try one more time. Do you know why I did that? Not because of the children or what our families or other people thought, not because of financial reasons or because I was afraid of starting over or being alone. Those things did not even come into play. I'm way past all of that. It was simply because I do truly love my husband. I remembered why I fell in love with him and married him after swearing to anyone who would listen that I would never ever marry again. And I could still envision the two of us growing old together, sitting in our rocking chairs on the front porch talking about our children, grandchildren and so on. Unfortunately, it's been 6 months now since we reconciled and we still haven't addressed those issues and he isn't being very cooperative but I'm not giving up yet. I'm kind of stubborn that way. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 VC that was a nice post IMHO. I think if you ask one basic question all the answers will come to you. Why am I still married to him/her? Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 VC that was a nice post IMHO. I think if you ask one basic question all the answers will come to you. Why am I still married to him/her?That's a question that would NEVER come to my mind unless I found out that Mrs. Moose was unfaithfull. (was your husband unfaithfull VC?) I feel that in a marriage, you should never question why you're with your spouse, you just are. Period. You made the choice to be with him/her. You made a life long comittment to him/her, so there shouldn't be any question as to why you're still WITH them. Unless of course that person is unfaithfull or abusive, whoa.......something just hit me like a ton of bricks...... Could the lack of sex, or should I say, the spouse's CHOICE to not have a healthy sex life be considered a form of abuse? Not trying to justify leaving my wife, it just hit me that maybe it could be..... Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 That's a question that would NEVER come to my mind unless I found out that Mrs. Moose was unfaithfull. (was your husband unfaithfull VC?) I feel that in a marriage, you should never question why you're with your spouse, you just are. Period. You made the choice to be with him/her. You made a life long comittment to him/her, so there shouldn't be any question as to why you're still WITH them. Unless of course that person is unfaithfull or abusive, whoa.......something just hit me like a ton of bricks...... Could the lack of sex, or should I say, the spouse's CHOICE to not have a healthy sex life be considered a form of abuse? Not trying to justify leaving my wife, it just hit me that maybe it could be..... I think it is neglect. Not so much abuse. And no sex can indeed be seen as a legit reason to leave a spouse. But I think not being in love with your spouse is more of a legit reason to leave. I think you do need to evaluate why you are with someone often. It can remind you why you want to do more for them. Again my guess is your wife does not choose to meet your needs because she is still angry, damaged, or simply is not in love with you and willing to share that aspect with you any longer. I gotta tell you I would not want my H to stay married to me simply because he said he would..... without him wanting to because he loved me. Moose do you really love her.... would you marry her again today if you just met? Are you staying M'ed because you said you would or because you really want to be married to her? How would she answer that question? I can also tell you this...... I grew up in a family where a hug was not a normal part of life. Yet I still am very very affectionate with my H. As angry as I get with him I still love him to no end and I want to satisfy him and make him happy..... sexually as well. I don't give BJ's because it is my fantasy, I do it simply because I love him and that makes him happy. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Moose do you really love her.... would you marry her again today if you just met? Are you staying M'ed because you said you would or because you really want to be married to her? How would she answer that question?Hells ya I love her, and yes I would marry her all over again. I'm married because I want to be married, to HER, not just to be married to hold the highest office a man can hold being a Father and a Husband. As for the second part, she would probably answer yes, but I can't tell you where her heart would be in it.... Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 As for the second part, she would probably answer yes, but I can't tell you where her heart would be in it.... well then something changed her tune...... my guess again she is still angry and hurt by your previous behavior and has not forgiven you. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 well then something changed her tune...... my guess again she is still angry and hurt by your previous behavior and has not forgiven you.That's been 5 years ago......you'd think she'd recover by now...... So, if you're right about this a4a, what would you suggest I do, and please remember, I've been through all the talking, counceling, self help books and just about anything else you can think of......I'm at my wits end...... Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 That's been 5 years ago......you'd think she'd recover by now...... So, if you're right about this a4a, what would you suggest I do, and please remember, I've been through all the talking, counceling, self help books and just about anything else you can think of......I'm at my wits end...... Are you at wits end because of the lack of sex or the fact that your wife is not (possibly) "in love" with you? I explained this to my H..... if you want me to give you more ..... you simply give me more of what I need. Then I will willingly give you anything I am aware of that you need. Something is missing and I would suggest that you ask her "what will it take for you to feel the way you used to feel about me?" You may not like the answer.... it could be she is staying for the trappings/status only? But you deserve to know why she is staying married to you....... don't you? Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 As for being 5 years ago..... I don't think time heals all wounds. Otherwise adults abused as children would just "get over it" in a little bit of time. I don't know of the degree this went to..... and it doesn't matter. Only your W knows if she is still angry about it or not. You need to ask her. Because you would have gotten over it, does not mean she has. Something is missing........ not saying it is your fault, just something is missing for her to not want to choose to meet your needs/desires. Link to post Share on other sites
Very_Confused Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 VC that was a nice post IMHO. I think if you ask one basic question all the answers will come to you. Why am I still married to him/her? Thanks a4a, today just happens to be one of those days where the stubborness in me is showing through. Not all days are like that. I still bounce around from day to day. One morning I might wake up, look over at my husband beside me and say to myself "I love that man. I chose to spend my life with him for better or worse and I believe in us." On days like that I roll with the punches. When he kisses me as he is leaving for work I return it enthusiastically. I laugh and smile and am upbeat all day. After he gets home I may even attempt a hug or a kiss myself without fear of rejection. I may still get rejected but I don't let it stop me. Those are my stubborn days. Another morning I might wake up, see him laying on his side of the bed and feel that distance between us so strongly that it's like a knife in my heart. Bad days, no doubt about it. I am emotional and can't concentrate. I do what needs to be done and not much else. I put on a good show for the kids until they go to bed and then I withdraw. I steer clear of him, pray for the day to just end and usually cry myself to sleep long before he ever comes to bed. Those are my depressed days. On yet another morning I might wake up, see him sleeping soundly and peacefully and the resentment hits me like a ton of bricks. I grit my teeth and tell myself that I will learn to be content just like he is, one way or another. I will learn not to miss what is not there between us anymore. I will keep myself busy with work and the children and outside interests and not care if he is there with me or not. Plenty of people live in a "marriage in name only" right? Those are my giving up days. Thankfully, those days don't happen very often because it's just not something I am capable of. I don't see me ever getting to the point where I could settle for a life like that, no matter how much I love him. So, today is a stubborn day. Tomorrow might be one too, who knows. It probably depends alot on how dinner goes tonight. Link to post Share on other sites
Mustang Sally Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 That's been 5 years ago......you'd think she'd recover by now...... Just my opinion, Moose, but never underestimate the depth to which resentment can take hold and grow, like a taproot on a weed... Again, just my $0.02 Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Just my opinion, Moose, but never underestimate the depth to which resentment can take hold and grow, like a taproot on a weed... Again, just my $0.02 this is very very very true........ it can all come back even stronger then it was after it just happened. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Sorry, that's just ridiculous. You're right. It's better to stay frustrated and semi-celibate, but in an angry and resentful kinda way Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
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