How would you feel in a sexless marriage?

[Ladyjane14]

He says the ED is the only reason.

 

There are treatment options available. Now, I'm not saying a positive outcome is guaranteed. But if he's not working with his urologist... then he's making a choice to ignore the problem.

 

This isn't too much different than what we're talking about with low-libido women. He's not experiencing sexual urges that would give him impetus to intiate sex. However, just like we would expect a woman to address the problem... so too should a man.

[Ladyjane14]

Give me some time on that, Thumbs. I'm a slow poster, and I've got work to do as well. But I'll definitely post you something back.

 

(...and thanks for the kind words. I'm one of those folks who get embarrassed by compliments though... so my face is all pink now! :laugh: )

[JamesM]

I have posted so much about my marriage and its period of almost complete sexlessness...feel free to check some of my threads. I can say right off the bat that Ladyjane was helpful to me and her answers here are right on the money. When one lives in such a marriage and rebounds from it, well, experience is a great teacher. She has proven that.

 

Having said that, my sex life is far from what many would consider perfect. We have sex on average a little less than once a week. But it is mainly my initiation lately. I have begin to suspect that stress is near the root of the cause. I am taking this into consideration. I am looking at homelife, financial, and personal areas. Once again, I am researching all possible angles. Since my wife was abused sexually as a child, even she has said recently that she still believes this contributes to her lack of interest, because it still is in the background.

 

To the medical question...do you leave if the spouse has a medical condition and refuses to fix it? That is what I was faced with. My wife's main problem was a thyroid condition with the wrong medicine. (However, I think she was also given a wakeup call by me, and she believed me). I say no. Having said that, I agree with LJ that a wakeup call is needed...an ultimatum may need to be delivered.

 

Sometimes the reason that a medical condition is ignored as in the case of ED, is obviously embarassment. And as in my case, it takes the initiative of the spouse to get the ball rolling. A man's manhood is his penis. If it doesn't function, he doesn't feel like a man. And since men don't talk about feelings, then he avoids the issue. As a wife, he needs to be told that he is still her man, but he nees to wake up and "be a man" and fix the problem. This is why she married him. She did not marry him to avoid problems and sit on the couch.

 

Needs are funny things. My wife still feels that she doesn't need sex. And I imagine the man with ED has a similar feeling. How do you convince him to check it out? I can understand the frustration. As men, we do not tend to like to go to doctors, but if you can get him to get a prescription without all of the hassle, then you may get somewhere. Explaining to him that you need sex is like telling someone who just ate a big meal that you are starving. It is too hard to relate. So, if the doctors visit can be simple and quick, he may go for it.

 

Since I have dealt with so many issues to get at the root of my lack of sex, I feel that sometimes it isn't worth the hassle. I now have more hope than I did a year ago when I came here, but yet, I still wonder why I go thru trying to get through to her. Then I realize that her kisses and her passion is what I want...not just sex. I can get that if I want, but I don't. That is what we must cling to when going through the frustration of being denied sex while being "tied" to a vow.

 

I guess I am rambling today, but reading these posts has got me thinking.

 

My first suggestion for anyone who doesn't feel they get enough sex is...write down all of the factors that you think may play a role. What is your financial situation like? Are you in big debts? Is it a worry for you...cuz it will be a bigger worry for her.

 

Has she ever had any medical conditions that you know of? How is her thyroid levels? Yes, this is a bigger one than you may realize. Check out websites for other possible medical conditions.

 

When did this lack of sex start? What may have triggered it? Was it the birth of a child? Was it the death of one? Was it the loss of a job?

 

Do you satisfy her or is it just about you? Do you ask her what she likes when you do have sex or is she just glad to get it over with? Have you ever learned how to please a woman or man? When sex was better, did she ever make comments about what she would like different...and did she get results?

 

Was she abused ever sexuall, physically as a child or was she raped? Has she ever received counseling?

 

Did either of you ever cheat while married or before?

 

Anyhow, write down all of the possible factors. I know that when I began loooking for an answer, what I found was not what I expected. Now I have hope that although we have sex about three times a month, I can still make changes that will improve her level of satisfaction.

[Mr. Lucky]

He knows that I'm practically not EVER going to initiate sex. That said, he also knows that unless there's a superlative reason for noncompliance... I'm going to do the best job I can in developing those feelings situationally. Bottom line, not only am I going to comply, but I'm going to do the best I can to be fully present in the moment. He's doing his job. I'm doing mine.

I feel that you are giving yourself a huge pass here, Ladyjane, and it seems to be at your husband's expense. What Moose and others are saying here is that they not only crave sex but, maybe more importantly, the affirmation of being wanted and desired. Avoiding "noncompliance" with your husband's desires is definitely not the same thing.

 

Many wives's EN's include the verbal affirmation of their husband's expression of love and committment. I don't think those women would be satisfied if their husbands said "I'm practically not EVER going to" tell you "I love you". Like Moose, myself and others, it would leave you wanting more.

 

Mr. Lucky

[ThumbingMyWay]

thanks LJ...I look forward to it.

 

 

and to touch on what jamesM stated...

 

 

My wife and I do have some stress situations we are dealing with.

 

She has gone fulltime, so we are still getting used to not getting home till 6 pm and then having to make dinner, do homework, pickup house, kid time, free time...etc...you all know the story.

 

She is still in college class one night a week and then homeowrk on weekends

 

We are building a rec room, so that is bringing stress in regards to money and time and aggreements on things.

 

And...a close married friend of hers is leaving her husband. And ironically enough, my wifes exMM comes inot the picture there. NO this friend is not having an A with my wifes exMM, but they are close and do talk often. So my wife while in converstions with her friend and her friends STBX, the exMM comes up alot....so theres that cancer still lingering in the shawdows.....

 

And at the end of the day....she is just plain tired....

 

I just want some hot sex now and then....not once a month.. And i DONT want the "I guess we will if you want to sex". That kinda of sex is a turn off....I dont want it to be a chore for her....I want herto actually WANT me....not...OK, whip it out and I will take care of you crap...

 

whats a man to do?

 

It makes me feel like i am not desired by her....and I dont like it....

[Very_Confused]

Then I realize that her kisses and her passion is what I want...not just sex. I can get that if I want, but I don't. That is what we must cling to when going through the frustration of being denied sex while being "tied" to a vow.

 

I think this is what hurts so much about all of it. Yes, I miss the sex but I also think I miss the kisses, hugs and the passion even more. I miss the playfulness. I miss his hand on my back as we go through a door. I miss snuggling up beside him or holding his hand as we watch a movie together. I miss him coming up behind me while I cook or wash dishes and putting his arms around me. I miss his kiss goodnight and at least some part of our bodies touching, maintaining contact while we sleep. I miss feeling like I can reach out to him for no reason at all and not be rejected. I miss these and so many more of the little things.

 

I guess that's why I have wondered if he could, even subconsciously, be using the ED as an excuse to avoid all of it. I want to understand what he is thinking and feeling. I want to know if it's really me that he loves or is he just in love with the idea of marriage and family. I understand how the ED has probably been a blow to his manhood and I haven't pressured him. But my womanhood has taken a serious blow too and he just doesn't seem to care. I want both of us to feel better about ourselves, each other and our relationship but I can't do it alone.

[Scrivdog]

LJ and James ..

 

ED does not mean that the guy doesn't want sex! Don't make the mistake of equating a wife who denies her husband sex with the guy who wants to but can't ..

 

If a guy won't have sex for weeks or months on end, it's because he lost his desire or drive or whatever. That won't get cured by a pill.

[Very_Confused]

Needs are funny things. My wife still feels that she doesn't need sex. And I imagine the man with ED has a similar feeling. How do you convince him to check it out? I can understand the frustration. As men, we do not tend to like to go to doctors, but if you can get him to get a prescription without all of the hassle, then you may get somewhere. Explaining to him that you need sex is like telling someone who just ate a big meal that you are starving. It is too hard to relate. So, if the doctors visit can be simple and quick, he may go for it.

 

I forgot to respond to this part. He has been to the doctor although it was last spring (due for a checkup soon). His doctor prescribed Cialis at that time. We reconciled in August and he used the Cialis once just a few days before he physically moved back in and then once more just a few days later. He hasn't used it since and that was 5 months ago. I think I will ask if it is okay for me to go with him to his checkup. He will probably refuse but it's worth a shot I guess.

[Very_Confused]

LJ and James ..

 

ED does not mean that the guy doesn't want sex! Don't make the mistake of equating a wife who denies her husband sex with the guy who wants to but can't ..

 

If a guy won't have sex for weeks or months on end, it's because he lost his desire or drive or whatever. That won't get cured by a pill.

 

I apologize if posting my situation was inappropriate or took the original discussion off-track temporarily. I realize that most of the discussion has been about men who have wives with a low-libido but since the topic was "How would you feel in a sexless marriage?" I thought my situation fit.

[Moose]

Yes, LJ is my favorite here as well......and she knows it!

 

There's a lot of great stuff in here I can/will use. And I hate to make my situation sound so impossible.......but I have to share so that you can get a better fix on the whole picture.

If YOU are the guy who's feeling sexual desires... then YOU are the guy who is ultimately responsible for bringing those needs to your mate's attention. She can then choose to fulfill those needs or not, but at that point... you've done your job. By NOT bringing your ENs to her, you're not giving her a choice. The job's not done.

I agree with this whole heartedly. And I have made my needs known to her on numerous occasions. As you already know we councel young marrieds, and yes, sex comes up ALL the time.

 

She'll preach to them how important it is to have a good sexual relationship with each other, and even points out to those who have been taught sex is, "dirty", where God desires us to experience it with our spouse.

 

You must realize how hard it is for me to sit still and shut up while she's pointing these things out, yet doesn't follow through at home. When confronted, (alone of course), about it, her usual response is, "we do enjoy sex with each other....what's the problem?".....when told it's the frequency, it's the ole roll your eyes, whisper, "not this again"....routine from her.

 

I guess my point is that she's well aware of these needs, and why I need them.

But that STILL doesn't give you permission to slack off on YOUR job. And your job is twofold... to fulfill her ENs as best as you can and to bring yours to her.

Agreed. And a main part of doing that deals with me being expected to steer clear of porn, extra-marital activity, masterbation or anything of the likes.

 

Here's the hard part of doing that......and TMW knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about.....she's hot. I mean.....damn hot....

 

When a plate of ribs like that is waved in front of a starving man.....instincts take over....

 

It doesn't help that she still dresses with skin tight jeans, skimpy out fits that leave nothing to the imagination either. I know she has the need to feel sexy as well, but is her motivation directed at me, or society, or the need for society to see her as sexy?

 

Her reply when questioned with that is she wants everyone to know that I have a sexy wife secondarily, and to look good for me primarily.

 

So if the direction is at me, why is it so hard for her to express this in the bedroom? I quite frankly don't understand why some of these guys aren't taking action.

If memory serves, refusal to accomodate your spouse's sexual needs, used to be grounds for divorce... same as adultery. Now, I'm not talking about any kinky "sexual needs" mind you, but flat out refusal by an otherwise healthy mate was deemed as unacceptable for married folk. It wasn't expected that a man should marry and then live like a monk.

 

I have to wonder how a woman (or man for that matter), would react to being asked to sign a waiver regarding adultery. What would be the response to that? I'm not the only woman who, upon receipt of her husband's snarky delivery of... "Fine then I'll just get it somewhere else!" has responded with..."Alright by me! (cue angry flounce).

 

What would happen if next day he brought her legal papers waiving her right to sue him for adultery?

 

I think at the minimum, she'd be listening. She might be angry. She might refuse to sign... but what she's NOT going to be doing is forgetting the incident any time soon.

I don't think I could ever bring myself to do something like that. It's an unreasonable ultimatum. But I get what you're saying.

 

I've come to accept my wife for who and what she is. And I wouldn't send her packing over something like this either.

 

The title to this thread is: "How would you feel in a sexless marriage?"

 

Frustrated, alone, un-respected, no longer desired, tired, and hopeless.

[Ladyjane14]

I feel that you are giving yourself a huge pass here, Ladyjane, and it seems to be at your husband's expense. What Moose and others are saying here is that they not only crave sex but, maybe more importantly, the affirmation of being wanted and desired. Avoiding "noncompliance" with your husband's desires is definitely not the same thing.

 

What I'm getting from you is that you think the woman is the one who has to change her mindset... but the man doesn't. (????)

 

Again, I say... it's impractical to EXPECT a woman who is NOT AROUSED to behave in a sexual manner as if she were. Why is that so difficult to understand? I'm not asking you to do brain surgery here.

 

IF a man who wants sex, initiates sexual contact with his wife... he may then LEAD her to arousal. This works particularly well when she understands the GOAL, which is passionate sexual expression rather than a 'mercy f*ck'. The fact that she is not intially interested doesn't have to necessarily define her as uninterested forever and ever. It just means that she needs a bit of a start-up so she can take her other hat off and put her bedroom goddess hat on.

 

You boys keep getting into trouble because you're taking offense at the idea that you need to initiate sexual contact. Sorry... but the alternative to that very well may be to either marry another GUY or to change partner's every time the infatuation stage wears off.

 

We ask women to understand the nature of a man... Well men, that goes both ways. You should understand the nature of a woman as well.

 

Now, you will likely have two dozen girls post on this thread about what kind of freak they are in the bedroom... but bottom line, that's not the girl you married.

Further, those posters will also have ebbs and tides as they live out their lifetime, just like the rest of us. At best, a libido like that will vary by lesser degrees.

 

Nope. You married a girl who had more in common with me. A girl who could care less about on sex most days. Otherwise YOU wouldn't be posting on this subject. And I am TELLING you... your expectations are impractical.

 

In a perfect world, your mate would be flipping you on your back and pouncing on you every night. But it ain't a perfect world boys.

 

So we come back to 'needs' and 'wants'.

 

Let me put it to you this way... If all you had to do is ASK your wife for sex and nine times out of ten your request resulted in a fabulous bout of passionate, steamy lovemaking... would you still have a problem?

 

If the answer is 'no', then 'Initiation' turns out to be a "want", and not a "need". And as I said before, fulfillment of "wants" should be considered as gifts.

 

Your short list of choices in addressing the dearth of marital sex in your life is as follows:

 

1. Tolerance. You continue much as you have, frustrated by the problem but not addressing it with alacrity.

 

2. Divorce. You end up paying child support and looking for a new girlfriend.

 

3. Adultery. You end up in divorce court, splitting your money between your ex-wife and your new girlfriend.

 

4. Negotiation. You work it out until BOTH you and your spouse are satisfied with your arrangement.

 

In Option #4, you will be required to GIVE a little in order to TAKE a little. Giving up a 'want' is better than going without a 'need', right? So.. in the matter of "initiation", if it can be relegated to the 'want' pile in order that you can receive a 'need', isn't that a WIN in terms of negotiation.? Do you need passionate sex, or do you just need for your wife to initiate sex?

 

Asking her for BOTH is a bit of a lottery win, don't you think? What's she getting out of the deal? Bear in mind... she neither wants nor needs frequent sex. What are YOU giving up when you expect to have both?

 

This is how it works around Ladyjane's house: My husband has agreed to be the initiator, and for my part, I greet his requests with enthusiasm unless I have a superlative reason for not doing so. If I do have a reason, he then trusts that reason to be legitimate. So, if I say to him that I'm not feeling well... he knows it's true and doesn't build resentment for the mistaken belief that I rejected him. Now, this doesn't mean that he NEVER gets a pass made at him. But, what it does mean is that he's not taking offense when I don't.

 

In the interim, we are both a little more conscious of offering non-sexual affection. I hardly ever walk by the guy without patting him on the ass. And he hardly ever walks by without offering a hug. Non-sexual physical touch is important too. We don't even think about it anymore, it's just customary at this point.

 

Anyway, we both had to give a little and we BOTH have to trust that the other is honorable in their intent. He has to give up his 'want' regarding initiation, and I have to make an effort to be an ENTHUSIASTIC partner rather than treating him like he's leading me to the guillotine.

 

That's a hard enough job. For women, it often means we have to engage our brains in a constuctive way. We have to learn to not allow for distractions that would otherwise ruin a pretty good time. It doesn't take much to put out a libido which is struggling. Picture it like a guttering candle flame. We have to strengthen it cerebrally in order to keep it from going out. We have to make an effort to feed that little libido. We can't expect our partner to always have to do that for us. We have to bring our mental A-game.

 

It's hard to explain, but it's kind of like... if it's HIS job to put the key in the ignition, it's HER job to provide enough mental fuel to keep the engine running. But that's leading us into what I would say to a woman who's stuggling.

 

(more later)

[Ladyjane14]

I don't think I could ever bring myself to do something like that. It's an unreasonable ultimatum. But I get what you're saying.

 

You're right. That is sort of a flippant 'call of a bluff'. If taken seriously at all, it shouldn't be taken so until the last step before the divorce papers. I don't think it's ever going to go that far in your case, Moose. Mrs. Moose is a reasonable person.

She'll respond to a lesser wake-up call way before then, I'm sure.

[Scrivdog]

1. Tolerance. You continue much as you have, frustrated by the problem but not addressing it with alacrity.

 

2. Divorce. You end up paying child support and looking for a new girlfriend.

 

3. Adultery. You end up in divorce court, splitting your money between your ex-wife and your new girlfriend.

 

4. Negotiation. You work it out until BOTH you and your spouse are satisfied with your arrangement.

 

 

LJ,

 

You're assuming #4 is always possible. It isn't always so. Not by a long shot. Take our friend Moose. You think his wife is in any mood to negotiate? Why would she? She likes things just the way they are and subconsciously or not, she knows he can't easily leave. She's much rather he take option #1.

 

You're asking that he apply some heavy leverage, which is probably the best thing to in his case .. but he stands to lose everything if his gambit fails. And his church, the courts, and the Lifetime TV mentality is stacked against him, not her.

 

But let's say that he threatens divorce credibly enough and that scares her into having sex with him. I can guarantee you it'll last as long as the threat still lingers and not for a minute more. After that, he'll be right back here. I've been there and I've done that.

[Ladyjane14]

 

ED does not mean that the guy doesn't want sex! Don't make the mistake of equating a wife who denies her husband sex with the guy who wants to but can't ..

 

I agree. But he might be too embarrassed to be following up closely enough with his doctor. If he's not sure he can perform, it'd be understandable if he denied desire. He should be seeing his urologist for a doppler study.

 

(Damn, I can't remember who it was that used to post here who recommended doppler for correct ED diagnosis. )

[Ladyjane14]

LJ,

 

You're asking that he apply some heavy leverage, which is probably the best thing to in his case .. but he stands to lose everything if his gambit fails.

 

Heavy leverage is a last resort. Better to ante up one chip at a time. But yes... I think if there's NO other way to effectively change a situation in which one partner is consistantly having his truest needs unaddressed... then you whip out the BIG GUNS. You don't just lay down and die. You pull yourself up by your bootstraps and ADDRESS the problem. Your other option is to STOP needing whatever it is that you "need".

 

And his church, the courts, and the Lifetime TV mentality is stacked against him, not her.

 

Nope. I won't agree with that. Those things are stacked against cheating, but NOT against a divorce caused by sexless marriage.

 

But let's say that he threatens divorce credibly enough and that scares her into having sex with him. I can guarantee you it'll last as long as the threat still lingers and not for a minute more. After that, he'll be right back here. I've been there and I've done that.

 

I'm not talking about threats or ultimatums. I'm talking about solving the problem, even though it may take lengthly negotiations.... or, if it can't be resolved, moving on.

 

Yes... I agree with you that during the course of heated discussion, a woman who's mired in her own position will most likely see it as an ultimatum, probably a meaningless one too if her mate doesn't insist on full resolution. But if the crisis becomes REAL, she must either reconsider her position or walk away from the conflict, alone. There's not much middle ground at that point. And not much comfort in having clung to your opinion when it ends up costing you your mate.

[Scrivdog]

LJ,

 

Unless I'm mistaken, Moose will not move on if he gets no more sex from his wife. He loves his kids and intends to be a father to them. He probably loves his wife as well. And hell, aside from the sex issue, he probably likes the life he has, too.

 

You see that for people like Moose, for example, divorce is NOT an option. And I can't say I blame him. I don't get why people so easily offer this as a solution to marital problems. He has kids and a life he worked all his life for. His kids don't need to suffer the pain of divorce. I would put that at the bottom of the list. At least in the case of an affair, he can still, if nothing else, be a parent. And if he's not going to be his wife's lover, at least he can be her provider.

 

If not, and if his wife folds her arms and rolls her eyes, it's game over. May as well have him get chemically castrated for all the fun he'll have with that ..

 

I would rather that his wife comes around and they be happy. But I'd also rather he enjoy sex with another while he still can. But of course, he won't be able to do that, either.

 

He's stuck in a bad place and there's nobody who can save him. Our society and our morals code has left people like Moose to drown.

[Ladyjane14]

I would rather that his wife comes around and they be happy. But I'd also rather he enjoy sex with another while he still can.

 

Kiddo.. you are NEVER going to convince me that cheating is the answer.

 

Cheating isn't like 'open marriage'. If BOTH spouses agree to allow for sexual contact outside the marriage, it might not be particularly conducive to emotional intimacy... but at least there's a small percentage of chance that it could end up being a viable solution.

 

But this business of going behind somebody's back... I can't see ANYTHING right about that. I find it criminal to climb into your spouse's bed without giving her the option to assess her risk. It's like having sex with a bunch of people you don't know. How can a person give their consent when they don't know who all they're giving it to?

 

This TRUMPS the importance of emotional/sexual needs from my POV. It's just flat out wrong.

[Scrivdog]

Kiddo.. you are NEVER going to convince me that cheating is the answer.

 

 

Just as you feel about that, I feel the same about abandoning one's kids as not being the answer either.

 

But I respect your opinion, even if you're wrong

[MySugaree]

Is No Exit from a sexless marriage best for all concerned? A family is as happy as its least happy member. A long term sexually deprived spouse, without options (except for masturbation), is a very, very unhappy camper. And it only gets worse.

 

While divorce is hard for everyone, it does not necessarily mean that Moose will be any less a parent. I moved 4 blocks from my marital home, and my children--both teenagers--are fixtures there. Divorce is hard, but it is not catastrophic. The parent child bonds and interactions remain.

 

The question the aggrieved spouse must ask himself is this: What kind of person will I become if I remain in a sexless relationship? If the deprivation causes undue resentment, anger and bitterness, and/or leads to sexually unsafe behavior outside the marriage, how much will the family benefit from this strained arrangement? Could divorce, in extreme situations, be the lesser evil?

 

The kids won't be kids forever. One day they'll all leave the nest. And Moose and Mrs. Moose will be left alone with this 800 pound gorilla sitting in the middle of their marriage. What does Moose do then--after his best sexual years are behind him? Must he sacrifice his sex life and hunger for intimacy for the sake of his family and God?

 

The irony, of course, is that the wives of honorable men like Moose know that their deprived husbands won't leave. Hence, LJ's Negotiation strategy is dead in the water because the only real leverage these husbands possess--threats of an affair, separation and divorce--is worthless because the sex-averse wives know that their miserable husbands aren't going anywhere given their husband's moral codes, commitment to family and religion.

 

Wives, in such circumstances, have no incentive to negotiate.

 

Which is worse: A husband's affair or a healthy wife who sexually abandons her husband in the middle of a marriage? An extra-marital relationship or no marital relationship?

 

I guess it depends...

[Scrivdog]

Phenomenal points!

 

 

Is No Exit from a sexless marriage best for all concerned? A family is as happy as its least happy member. A long term sexually deprived spouse, without options (except for masturbation), is a very, very unhappy camper. And it only gets worse.

 

While divorce is hard for everyone, it does not necessarily mean that Moose will be any less a parent. I moved 4 blocks from my marital home, and my children--both teenagers--are fixtures there. Divorce is hard, but it is not catastrophic. The parent child bonds and interactions remain.

 

The question the aggrieved spouse must ask himself is this: What kind of person will I become if I remain in a sexless relationship? If the deprivation causes undue resentment, anger and bitterness, and/or leads to sexually unsafe behavior outside the marriage, how much will the family benefit from this strained arrangement? Could divorce, in extreme situations, be the lesser evil?

 

The kids won't be kids forever. One day they'll all leave the nest. And Moose and Mrs. Moose will be left alone with this 800 pound gorilla sitting in the middle of their marriage. What does Moose do then--after his best sexual years are behind him? Must he sacrifice his sex life and hunger for intimacy for the sake of his family and God?

 

The irony, of course, is that the wives of honorable men like Moose know that their deprived husbands won't leave. Hence, LJ's Negotiation strategy is dead in the water because the only real leverage these husbands possess--threats of an affair, separation and divorce--is worthless because the sex-averse wives know that their miserable husbands aren't going anywhere given their husband's moral codes, commitment to family and religion.

 

Wives, in such circumstances, have no incentive to negotiate.

 

Which is worse: A husband's affair or a healthy wife who sexually abandons her husband in the middle of a marriage? An extra-marital relationship or no marital relationship?

 

I guess it depends...

[Ladyjane14]

Just as you feel about that, I feel the same about abandoning one's kids as not being the answer either.

 

But Scriv, if/when you finally get caught, what do you think is gonna happen?

 

If/when you get caught... it's the betrayed spouse who ends up in the driver's seat. And THAT is when you end up facing all the losses you were initially worried about. Only they are multiplied, by additional losses at settlement and in social standing.

 

How can the risks you are taking possibly be worth the consequences?

[Ladyjane14]

Hence, LJ's Negotiation strategy is dead in the water because the only real leverage these husbands possess--threats of an affair, separation and divorce--is worthless because the sex-averse wives know that their miserable husbands aren't going anywhere given their husband's moral codes, commitment to family and religion.

 

But I keep telling you that it's NOT a "threat". A partner who is fundamentally unhappy with his sexlife, whose truest needs are left unfulfilled... needs to pick himself up, dust himself off, and remove himself from the situation.

 

If that happens to evoke a crisis response from his spouse, it may be enough impetus so that she reevaluates her position, but if not... "c'est la vie... it's been nice knowin' ya".

 

Sometimes it's necessary to be willing to END a marriage in order to have a chance in saving it.

[Scrivdog]

No worse off than if I had asked for my walking papers to begin with. Being in a no-fault state, she can't really get any more of the the usual advantages the courts would offer her anyway.

 

And hey, who knows, just like a kid who gets his toy taken away, maybe she'll realize she wants it back after all.

 

Either way, who cares? In about 70 years, somebody else will be sitting in my kitchen, looking at my sunset, and nobody will remember what happened, much less the marital issues we had.

 

I'm here now and I'll live life while I have it.

 

But Scriv, if/when you finally get caught, what do you think is gonna happen?

 

If/when you get caught... it's the betrayed spouse who ends up in the driver's seat. And THAT is when you end up facing all the losses you were initially worried about. Only they are multiplied, by additional losses at settlement and in social standing.

 

How can the risks you are taking possibly be worth the consequences?

[tommyr]

This is how it works around Ladyjane's house:

 

Thank you, very much, for the insightful post! Your explanation of the female point-of-view is worth a LOT to me. Its possible that your own solution (w your husband) might work for us too. I have no problem being sole initiator but my wife is gonna have to stand-down some of her current defense tactics:

• winter parka inside the house?
  
• taking a bite of snack just as I approach to kiss goodnite and signal my bedtime?

My sex drive is pretty strong, but she has me figured out and somehow manages to intercept even my most tactful overtures. Sometimes she does it verbally "not tonight, hon.. " and sometimes she just emits a "dont come near me or risk death" vibe that cannot be ignored.

[Ladyjane14]

No worse off than if I had asked for my walking papers to begin with. Being in a no-fault state, she can't really get any more of the the usual advantages the courts would offer her anyway.

 

Sorry, but you haven't taken into account the reactions of the same children you've claimed to base this decision on. When they're adults, will they bring you your grandchildren? Or will they take them to their mother's house?

Because afterall, their mother wasn't the one who ruined the family dynamic... it was Daddy who couldn't keep his pecker in his pants.

 

Your kids aren't going to understand your position if you end up giving their mother a social disease. It wouldn't be until far in the future... when they've been married long enough themselves and in a similar situation.. and even then, like me, they might believe there were other options.

 

70 years from now, will there be somebody to put flowers on your marker?