whichwayisup Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Is he depressed? I mean if you're doing everything else and you say you're feeling like a roommate, is it possible he's unhappy too and just afraid (as most of us are) to talk about it openly? Or DO something to change things? I can relate to how you feel - Just try not to let your self confidence go down the tubes... Being a woman who is not getting any from her husband, it hurts to sit around and listen to my girlfriends talk about how their husbands are all over them and can't get enough and wish they could get some peace, and it makes me feel like there is something wrong with me that my husband isn't all over me as well. Yes, I can relate to this very well.
Shattered Reality Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 I think he might be depressed... I know that I am too. I just don't know what else to try. I've talked to him about it and told him how I feel, and he acknowledges that there is a problem, and then for the next couple of days he will be more lovey toward me, but still no sex. He also drinks, every day. Not to the point of getting ripped or anything, but he hates his job and it stresses him out, but it hasn't always been like that. We have had intimacy problems since we got married. He always accused me of being a nympho because I wanted it more than he did. Apparently wanting it twice a week was enough to qualify me as that in his mind. The lack of sex isn't our only issue by any means, but I guess I have it in my mind that if we fixed that part and be more intimate, everything else might fall into place. Maybe I'm wrong about that too. I'm just to the point that I dont' even want to try anymore. I'm tired of putting all my efforts into it with nothing to show and no change. We have been married for almost 12 years, together for 13. That's a lot of time trying to work things out to no avail, at least to me. And I don't know how much more rejection I can take.
StayClose Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 I find it in interesting what the of the two most popular threads right now one is about swinging, the other is sexless marraiges. In one thread people ask "If my spouse loves me, then why do the want to have sex with someone else?" On the other, the question is "If my spouse loves me, then why doesn't she/he want to have sex with ME?" The expection seems to be the love should conquor all, including someone's sex drive. But I've never heard of anyone suggesting that.
Shattered Reality Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 I find it in interesting what the of the two most popular threads right now one is about swinging, the other is sexless marraiges. In one thread people ask "If my spouse loves me, then why do the want to have sex with someone else?" On the other, the question is "If my spouse loves me, then why doesn't she/he want to have sex with ME?" The expection seems to be the love should conquor all, including someone's sex drive. But I've never heard of anyone suggesting that. Well, I don't believe that love alone can conquer all. Marriage is work. I don't think that anything worth having comes easily, but that is my opinion. But it does take two to make things work. I can try all I want but if there isn't an effort from both of us, it would be in vain. And that's the point where I'm at right now. I feel that I have given 150% of my effort into solving this problem between us and he is not. I never entered my vows with the intent of not sticking to them, but I also didn't do it with the intent of being miserable for the rest of my life either. This is the inner struggle that I go through daily, and it's tearing me up.
whichwayisup Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 I think he might be depressed... I know that I am too. I just don't know what else to try. I've talked to him about it and told him how I feel, and he acknowledges that there is a problem, and then for the next couple of days he will be more lovey toward me, but still no sex. He also drinks, every day. Not to the point of getting ripped or anything, but he hates his job and it stresses him out, but it hasn't always been like that. We have had intimacy problems since we got married. He always accused me of being a nympho because I wanted it more than he did. Apparently wanting it twice a week was enough to qualify me as that in his mind. Keep communicating how you feel - And both of you should get into counselling, together and one on one. It's like you two have forgotten what brought you two together, and that love, respect and intimacy has been buried. It's there...Just gotta dig down deep and renew those feelings again. The lack of sex isn't our only issue by any means, but I guess I have it in my mind that if we fixed that part and be more intimate, everything else might fall into place. Maybe I'm wrong about that too. I'm just to the point that I dont' even want to try anymore. I'm tired of putting all my efforts into it with nothing to show and no change. We have been married for almost 12 years, together for 13. That's a lot of time trying to work things out to no avail, at least to me. And I don't know how much more rejection I can take With us, it comes and goes...Dry spells and then we're like bunnies. Though, most of the time I do the first move to get the ball rolling so to speak... I know he loves me and in that sense I have no doubts...It's just something I guess I've accept that he isn't into as much sex as I am. Most of the time in all honesty I don't let it get to me (I CHOOSE not to) but there are days I kind of wish he had that "LOOK" for me, that across the room, "I want you NOW" and act upon it. If you love him, don't give up. Try the counselling and if he isn't willing to go, maybe you need to tell him HOW unhappy you are, and that you want him as a husband, not as a brother or a roommate. Maybe he just needs a HUGE swift kick in the rear, that fire under his butt to DO something and change.
Ladyjane14 Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 I find it in interesting what the of the two most popular threads right now one is about swinging, the other is sexless marraiges. Well, if you think about it... both those topics have something in common. They both represent significant threats to maintaining emotional intimacy with one's partner. Take this comment from Shattered Reality for example: I dont' feel as close to him, and somehow all our other problems seem to be magnified. There it is in a nutshell. Sexual intimacy has a direct effect on emotional intimacy. And I don't think it matters if we're talking about sexless marriages or swinging. When emotional intimacy is impeded, everything else goes to hell in a handbag. p.s. to Shattered. This problem isn't going to fix itself, dear. If you've got a BIG problem, best to treat it like one, with all the attention and determination for resolution it deserves. You're going to need to step up to the plate. HE doesn't think he has a problem. You'll need to diasbuse him of that particular notion. If YOU have an issue, so does he.
JackJack Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Just out of curiosity, after all you have seen and read, why are you leaving it up to chance? Why not have your fiance read this thread, talk about the importance of sex in a marriage, make a commitment to take care of eachother's needs, and be open to your partner bringing up a concern without getting defensive? IMO, that would solve 90% of this. Make sure your partner gets it BEFORE marriage, and continue that dialogue throughout the marriage? Thanks. I haven't read all of these posts though. Guess I should. I have only read the last few pages. I don't normally lurk in the marriage forum since I am not married, but looks like it might be a good idea to start doing so since I am getting married soon. She has read quite a few posts on LS but not in the marriage forum, but I will suggest this to her.
JackJack Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 HE doesn't think he has a problem. You'll need to diasbuse him of that particular notion. If YOU have an issue, so does he. I have a question LJ. Just trying to understand thats all, especially since I'm getting married and might need to lurk here more. If someone doesn't feel they have a problem, how do you get them to see that they do? What if you have talked yourself silly and shown a person what may or may not be lacking and that is needed from them to maybe help a situation etc? What if its been done over and over again, and they still don't see that there is a problem? But its obvious that there is, and that they are part of it?
Pink_Tulip Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 If someone doesn't feel they have a problem, how do you get them to see that they do? What if you have talked yourself silly and shown a person what may or may not be lacking and that is needed from them to maybe help a situation etc? What if its been done over and over again, and they still don't see that there is a problem? But its obvious that there is, and that they are part of it? I know you were asking LJ, but I will throw in my two cents. I think as I said earlier, the person has to be open to seeing the other side. The other person has to trust their partner enough to know that they aren't being lied to or manipulated. I think with this issue, there are a lot of women who refuse to see it from their husbands perspective, who filter everything he says through their 'woman filter,' and since that is such a different way of thinking than how men think, they assume their husbands are lying, exagerating, manipulating, etc, and blow off the concern as unimportant. So, the way to get the other person open to any kind of concern, is to be with a person who IS open to hearing what you say and trusting it is true for you. And that seems to be the crux of the problem in marriages. I think if people did that already, we wouldn't have a need for LS, you know? That is why I am so adament about making sure people have these understandings BEFORE marriage. I am lucky I had mine early on in our marriage, but even then neither of us got it completely until our marriage almost fell apart, and we were forced to decide how much we wanted to trust the other to put it back together, and that is a really, really, hard place to be. Most couples don't make it out in tact. So learn from my mistakes, lol, and have these conversations NOW! And as for my introspection as to how I became open enough to hear and believe my husband, I think it was the shock that he may not be happy with me, that he may want to cheat on me b/c I wasn't providing something he wanted or needed. Fear and shock, lol. Not very romantic, but worked for me. And it helped, I think, that it didn't come from him. Wish I had a better formula.
Ladyjane14 Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 I have a question LJ. Just trying to understand thats all, especially since I'm getting married and might need to lurk here more. If someone doesn't feel they have a problem, how do you get them to see that they do? What if you have talked yourself silly and shown a person what may or may not be lacking and that is needed from them to maybe help a situation etc? What if its been done over and over again, and they still don't see that there is a problem? But its obvious that there is, and that they are part of it? Look at it this way, JackJack... When you get married there are THREE entities in the marriage, two individuals and one couple. Each individual needs to grow and flourish as an individual, but so too does the "couple" entity. A problem within the couple MUST be addressed within the couple. If it fails to be addressed, the couple entity will fail to survive and the marriage dies. It comes down to this: "If you have a problem then I have a problem because WE are in this together. The "couple" is duality. It has NO individuality. If a deal-breaking marital problem cannot be resolved, all that's left to do is to accept the death of the "couple entity" as fact.
JackJack Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Thanks PT and LJ. I hope the fact I'm pushing 40 and this is the first time getting married is a plus, but maybe age sometimes has nothing to do with it? So, the way to get the other person open to any kind of concern, is to be with a person who IS open to hearing what you say and trusting it is true for you. If you have dated soemone for awhile before getting married and it seems they weren't always open to hearing things or seeing things, then maybe thats a sign or an indication of how it would or could be once married too? I am lucky I guess so far, in that my g/f is open to seeing or hearing things I feel may or may not be wrong or that we need to try to fix. they assume their husbands are lying, exagerating, manipulating, etc, and blow off the concern as unimportant. Why would someone think this way to begin with? Insecurity? What if someone has not been lied to or betrayed at all, to their spouse or SO but yet the other person STILL is not willing to open himself/herself up to see/hear whats going on?
Shattered Reality Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 As far as I know my husband hasn't been in a relationship where he was lied to, or manipulated or betrayed, and I don't feel that I have done any of that to him to make him feel that way. I would never belittle him for having the problem that he does, I just want to help him, to help us get past this. At least that was the way I always felt. Lately I feel like giving up though. The thing is though, that he is in denial that there is a problem. Sure, he can admit it to me... when we have had discussions about it he will even say things like "yeah, I know that I need to work on that" or something like that (not to imply that the fault is all with him, at least not in all our problems.) But sometimes I feel that way though Like I've tried so hard to make things work but he is not putting any effort forth. I know I'm not perfect... there are issues that he has with me that I need to work on as well. But the point is that he won't DO anything about it. I can be as open and honest about how I'm feeling and what this is doing to our relationship, but I can't fix this alone. I can't MAKE him do anything that he doesn't want to do, and frankly I don't think I should have to. I'm willing to put a certain amount of work into this, and I have... but how much is enough? At this point, the wake up call for him might be if I decide to leave him. But also, even if he were to change I'm afraid that it might be too little, too late. I love him. I don't wish bad things upon him. But I think that I deserve to be happy as well, and I'm not. A part of me has already checked out... I can feel it inside that something has died. I don't know if I can get it back
Pink_Tulip Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Thanks PT and LJ. I hope the fact I'm pushing 40 and this is the first time getting married is a plus, but maybe age sometimes has nothing to do with it? So, the way to get the other person open to any kind of concern, is to be with a person who IS open to hearing what you say and trusting it is true for you. If you have dated soemone for awhile before getting married and it seems they weren't always open to hearing things or seeing things, then maybe thats a sign or an indication of how it would or could be once married too? I am lucky I guess so far, in that my g/f is open to seeing or hearing things I feel may or may not be wrong or that we need to try to fix. they assume their husbands are lying, exagerating, manipulating, etc, and blow off the concern as unimportant. Why would someone think this way to begin with? Insecurity? What if someone has not been lied to or betrayed at all, to their spouse or SO but yet the other person STILL is not willing to open himself/herself up to see/hear whats going on? I definately think age and life experience is a plus, I know I am a lot more open to my H now than when I was younger, I just seem to get things more easily and trust him more. I think having trust issues does hinder a lot of open communicaton, but I also think personality and knowledge/education does so as well. I used to be a smart ass know it all. You couldn't tell me anything! I honestly believed that men thought/felt exactly as I did. So when my H wanted sex, I put his concern through my handy dandy woman filter, and that filter told me, sex isn't a big deal, he is throwing a fit over nothing and acting like a spoiled brat. So I blew off his concerns about wanting more sex. It wasn't that I didn't love him, it's just that for ME, sex was no big deal, so it must be that way for HIM, right? After my 'shock and awe' experience, I became open to being educated about what men thought, that was the first step. Then I educated myself. I can't say for sure whether your fiance really gets that and is open, etc. If you would have asked me in the beginning, lol, I would have told you, heck ya! I am the most open and communicative person on the planet! My H can tell me anything! And I seriously believed that, that is what is so scary! The truth is, I was certainly open to hearing what he had to say, but nothing he said bypassed the woman filter. Nothing. I applied all of my thoughts and standards onto his concerns and deemed their importance in that way. If it wasn't important to ME, it wasn't important to the relationship. And he was being silly or exagerating, or trying to manipulate me into something as superficial as more sex, etc. So I guess your job is to really talk to your fiance about all this. Make sure when the two of you communicate, you BOTH put those filters aside and really listen to what the other is saying. If you can do that, you are already two steps ahead of the game.
Pink_Tulip Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 At this point, the wake up call for him might be if I decide to leave him. But also, even if he were to change I'm afraid that it might be too little, too late. I love him. I don't wish bad things upon him. But I think that I deserve to be happy as well, and I'm not. A part of me has already checked out... I can feel it inside that something has died. I don't know if I can get it back You know, I hate to say it, but the shock of an almost divorce for both my husband and me was what got our butts really working on the relationship. LJ and I have discussed this in other threads, and it seems that unfortunately, many people won't budge if they don't have to. We get comfortable and lazy, and why put in work when it is easier not to? There are no consequences to not trying, especially if your H doesn't think you'll leave over this. Maybe a wake up call is what he needs. Maybe you should sit him down and tell him everything you said here. Print out your message if you have to, to show him how serious you are. Just do something to wake him from his trance, you know? The best advice I can offer is to do it NOW. Take it from me, the farther this relationship runs off course, the harder it will be to bring back.
JackJack Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 A part of me has already checked out... I have to wonder if this is part of the problem for alot of people. That maybe one spouse has already checked out of the relationship, even if its some, to the point to where they could care less if it gets fixed or not. Therefore maybe thats why the other spouse has lost interest in trying to help fix things.
Shattered Reality Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 You know, I hate to say it, but the shock of an almost divorce for both my husband and me was what got our butts really working on the relationship. LJ and I have discussed this in other threads, and it seems that unfortunately, many people won't budge if they don't have to. We get comfortable and lazy, and why put in work when it is easier not to? There are no consequences to not trying, especially if your H doesn't think you'll leave over this. Maybe a wake up call is what he needs. Maybe you should sit him down and tell him everything you said here. Print out your message if you have to, to show him how serious you are. Just do something to wake him from his trance, you know? The best advice I can offer is to do it NOW. Take it from me, the farther this relationship runs off course, the harder it will be to bring back. He doesn't think I would ever leave him. You are right. I've mentioned it in the past, but never really followed through. I'm afraid that we may be past the point of no return though Or maybe it's just me. I'm tired of trying to fix our problems. And no, it's not just the sex, there are other issues. I have a thread in the Divorce section describing some of them as well. And JackJack... as far as my checking out being the reason for his unwillingness to work things out, I disagree. I didnt' just up and decide one day that I was done. I value my marriage, so I talked to him, tried to get him to work with me for YEARS before the wear and tear of things being so one sided got to me. It was not something that happened overnight. I didn't consciously check out either. I really think it's been a defense mechanism... if I shut off my feelings, then he can't hurt me when he rejects being intimate with me. If I shut things off then I won't cry when he yells either. I just don't know...
JackJack Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 And JackJack... as far as my checking out being the reason for his unwillingness to work things out, I disagree. I didnt' just up and decide one day that I was done. I value my marriage, so I talked to him, tried to get him to work with me for YEARS before the wear and tear of things being so one sided got to me. It was not something that happened overnight. I didn't consciously check out either. I really think it's been a defense mechanism... if I shut off my feelings, then he can't hurt me when he rejects being intimate with me. If I shut things off then I won't cry when he yells either. I just don't know.. First of all take a deep breathe and calm down. Its going to be ok. I quoted a piece of what you said because I said I wondered if it was like that for alot of people, I wasn't meaning you directly. Wondering and implying for sure if something is the way it is, or could be, is two different things. I'm here learning just as you are.
Shattered Reality Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 No worries, I'm not worked up And I didn't really think you meant it personally. I'm just very stressed about this I want to want to work it out, but in my heart I don't know if I can And, as always, there is more to the story than what I've had the chance to post here. I think I would need a month and a book to tell it all And a lot of the time I think that maybe I DON'T want to work it out and that scares me
JackJack Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 No worries, I'm not worked up And I didn't really think you meant it personally. I'm just very stressed about this I want to want to work it out, but in my heart I don't know if I can And, as always, there is more to the story than what I've had the chance to post here. I think I would need a month and a book to tell it all And a lot of the time I think that maybe I DON'T want to work it out and that scares me I understand. Hell I'm not even married yet, so I came looking for some advice and inquiring about things as well. From what I can see so far, PT and LJ seem to know alot about this kind of thing though, so hopefully they can be of some help to you too.
Pink_Tulip Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Hey JJ, I responded to your earlier post, but it got burried at the bottom of the previous page in case you didn't see it. (I hate it when that happens!)
JackJack Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Hey JJ, I responded to your earlier post, but it got burried at the bottom of the previous page in case you didn't see it. (I hate it when that happens!) Thanks PT, I missed that one. So I went back a read it. Glad you told me or I would have missed it for sure.
Ladyjane14 Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 I went back and had a look at it too. And I'm glad I did . Fabulous post Pink, ... maybe the most important post of the entire thread, particularly these bits here: I honestly believed that men thought/felt exactly as I did. So when my H wanted sex, I put his concern through my handy dandy woman filter, and that filter told me, sex isn't a big deal, he is throwing a fit over nothing and acting like a spoiled brat. So I blew off his concerns about wanting more sex. It wasn't that I didn't love him, it's just that for ME, sex was no big deal, so it must be that way for HIM, right? After my 'shock and awe' experience, I became open to being educated about what men thought, that was the first step. Then I educated myself. I can't say for sure whether your fiance really gets that and is open, etc. If you would have asked me in the beginning, lol, I would have told you, heck ya! I am the most open and communicative person on the planet! My H can tell me anything! And I seriously believed that, that is what is so scary! The truth is, I was certainly open to hearing what he had to say, but nothing he said bypassed the woman filter. Nothing. I applied all of my thoughts and standards onto his concerns and deemed their importance in that way. If it wasn't important to ME, it wasn't important to the relationship. And he was being silly or exagerating, or trying to manipulate me into something as superficial as more sex, etc.
Pink_Tulip Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 I went back and had a look at it too. And I'm glad I did . Fabulous post Pink, ... maybe the most important post of the entire thread, particularly these bits here: Thanks LJ. I have been really introspective the last 24 hours, trying to figure out how to help these guys, and why I get it and others don't. And that realization that back before I got it, I would have argued tooth and nail with you that I DID listen, etc., and I honestly believed it. You know, it is like trying to convince someone the sky really is orange. They will think you are nuts, and go and ask their friends, who will confirm for them the sky is blue. How do you do it? OMG! MAJOR EPIPHONY! It is like the Matrix! These women are living in the matrix! And the men have to convince them there is a completely different reality! How do you do it? I guess the good news is, once you see the other side and know it exists, there is never any going back, it will change your life for good. Just getting them to accept and understand there is a different reality...
Guest Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 I came to this board through another one: Sexless Marriage. PT, you have hit the nail right on the head. What you have written resonates so much with me. It is like my wife. Smart, very smart lady but so sure she is right, she completly misses it and nothing will make her change her mind. Meanwhile life passes by.
Ladyjane14 Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 These women are living in the matrix! And the men have to convince them there is a completely different reality! How do you do it? Let's not kid ourselves.... Alot of these men are living in "The Matrix" too. Quite a few of them believe that women have weaponized sex, that they use it as some kind of commodity for bartering on "good" behavior, that a working man is little more than a meal-ticket. They view her rejection of sex as a rejection of the whole man, rather than rejection of a specific activity. They believe they are unwanted and unappreciated as an entire individual, just because she's not feeling aroused by their mere presence. There are TWO different sets of "The Matrix".... what he perceives as true and accurate and what she believes is true and accurate. As you said earlier, Pink... each is translating information through their gender filter. Trouble is... this problem can't be solved until they BOTH leave the stereotypes behind. And somebody has to go first.
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