So what religions are we all?

[Topper]

Your quoting of Biblical text does not support your argument. They are text written a long time after the death of Jesus.

There some other text do support the Idea of Jesus and miracles but some go further and tell of some very dark Miracles. In one Jesus as child is said to have become angry with another young boy. In a rage, He turns the child into a bird then kills the bird. Mary is pretty upset as any Mother would be. Jesus sees the Boys family grieving and is remorseful He brings the child back to life. So much for the innocent Lamb of God.

You do not need to go to Jerusalem to learn more just look up the Gnostic's and that should lead you to other information.

In the beginning the Followers of Jesus were seen as a sub group of Jews. The very first Chruch in Jerusalem was headed by the Brother of Jesus James. James became very upset when Paul starter baptising non Jews. James said in order for non Jews to follow Jesus they had to become Jewish. That would mean men had to be circumcised. Adult male circumcision in that time would be very painful. It would be painful today. Paul and James wrote letters back and forth on this. Paul was in Roman. This also when he had his dream that as followers of Jesus you no longer had to follow kosher laws. When Jesus was on trial he was ask do you preach against the Laws? He said No That He was for the spirit of the Law. So why was he put to death? Think about this his only violent act is when he went to the Temple and knocked over The tables of the Money changers and those conducting business in the Temple. The Money changers were there so that Jews from all over could exchange their money so they could but Lambs to sacrifice at the Alter. This was big business in that time. Many in The Priesthood were worried because Jesus by that time had a very large following. The Romans feared riots would brake out. The High Priest were afraid that they could loose control of the temple and the profits they had become accustom to. he was killed not for claiming to be the son of God but because he was a threat to the Political structure.

Paul and the Chruch in Jerusalem eventually split from each other.

[bluetuesday]

I think we give Jesus too much credit. He obviously was some type of megalomaniac to think he was divine.

 

to be fair to jesus, he said that everything he had done, you could do too if you believed in god. he didn't elevate himself higher than anyone else, in fact his life was pretty much solely about raising other people - those who saw themselves as unworthy or hated in particular - higher.

 

there are a few instances in biblical records that show jesus being filled with fear, not wanting people to hear about his deeds and having to flee because he was under attack. he was certainly not a person who sought fame or prestige. if that image of him exists, it came later.

 

did jesus think he was the only son of god? if he did, no one wrote it down because it's not attributed to him in any of the gospels. he is recorded as saying 'i and my father are one', but that's not the same thing as claiming to BE god or to be the only son of god. the bible also talks about man and woman becoming 'one' in marriage. it doesn't mean they become the same person. it means they have joined forces to be united.

[burning 4 revenge]

to be fair to jesus, he said that everything he had done, you could do too if you believed in god. he didn't elevate himself higher than anyone else, in fact his life was pretty much solely about raising other people - those who saw themselves as unworthy or hated in particular - higher.

 

there are a few instances in biblical records that show jesus being filled with fear, not wanting people to hear about his deeds and having to flee because he was under attack. he was certainly not a person who sought fame or prestige. if that image of him exists, it came later.

 

did jesus think he was the only son of god? if he did, no one wrote it down because it's not attributed to him in any of the gospels. he is recorded as saying 'i and my father are one', but that's not the same thing as claiming to BE god or to be the only son of god. the bible also talks about man and woman becoming 'one' in marriage. it doesn't mean they become the same person. it means they have joined forces to be united.

Blue, if you read the letters of Paul carefully (the earliest records of the NT) you'll see that Paul was clearly refering to an Apocalyptic movement that was supposedly close at hand where Jesus returns to join his followers to inherit heaven and earth forever. He wasn't some wise liberal sage that was mostly concerned with social injustice, nor was he the esoteric quasi- Buddhist spiritualist of the gnostics. All indications in the three synoptics and the letters of Paul portray him firmly in the Apocalyptic tradition that was very strong at that time, especially among the Essenes. What might have made him different than the Essenes, or other related Apocalyptics is that at some point it was claimed that he was the Son of God. The Gospel of Mark (the earliest gospel) attributes his death to this claim.

[Storyrider]

did jesus think he was the only son of god? if he did, no one wrote it down because it's not attributed to him in any of the gospels. he is recorded as saying 'i and my father are one', but that's not the same thing as claiming to BE god or to be the only son of god. the bible also talks about man and woman becoming 'one' in marriage. it doesn't mean they become the same person. it means they have joined forces to be united.

 

But didn't he also say, "I am That I Am," which is a direct quote from the OT when Moses asks God who He is?

 

I'm Jewish, but I always thought the above quote was the main proof that Christ thought he was divine.

 

Below is from Wikipedia:

 

The New Testament (authored by Jews telling of the Jewish Messiah- Jesus Christ), testifies that Jesus Christ declared He is the great “I Am” of the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible). In the book of John verse 8:58 Jesus says: “before Abraham was, I am” (KJV). In that use of “I Am” Jesus was implying he is the God of Judaism, and this was evident in verse 59 by the Scribes and Pharisees reaction: “Then took they up stones to cast at him” (KJV).

Jesus goes on through out the New Testament ascribing his deity by the use of this word: I am… bread of life, I am… light of the world, I am… from above, I am… the door, I am… good shepherd, I am… resurrection and the life, I am… way, the truth and the life, I am… true vine, I am… Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty, I am… first and the last, I am… he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, I am… he which searcheth the reins and hearts, I am… root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

[Topper]

The Gospels in the Bible are not the earliest Christian writings. Paul and the very first followers of Jesus were in conflict. What we today Know as the New testament are the gospels that made it into the Bible. But they are not the only gospels. There are earlier writing The Bible was created 300 years after the death of Jesus. At what is Known as the Nicene Conference. Many of the Gospels read as if they were written to refute earlier writings such as the Gospel of Mary and Thomas The Chruch That was growing in Roman became very strong. They took over The Christan movement, they wrote the history, They set about to destroy any other way of thinking about being a follower of Jesus. The divinity was hotly debated for by Christians for hundreds of years. The Rituals and even the holidays that are celebrated by Christians today, have more to do with Pagan Roman gods then anything else. The Roman emperor Constantine made christianity the official religion of Rome. The most powerful cult in Rome at that time were those that worshipped the Sun God. The Birth day of the Sun God was guess what? Dec 25! They also went to their temples once a week on what day? Sunday.

Easter the most sacred time of the Christian Faith should be celebrated on Passover That is when Jesus entered Jerusalem and was crucified. So why isn't it celebrated on Passover? Again it is celebrated as a calendar event that was a pagan Sun god ritual.

[burning 4 revenge]

The Gospels in the Bible are not the earliest Christian writings. Paul and the very first followers of Jesus were in conflict. What we today Know as the New testament are the gospels that made it into the Bible. But they are not the only gospels. There are earlier writing The Bible was created 300 years after the death of Jesus. At what is Known as the Nicene Conference. Many of the Gospels read as if they were written to refute earlier writings such as the Gospel of Mary and Thomas The Chruch That was growing in Roman became very strong. They took over The Christan movement, they wrote the history, They set about to destroy any other way of thinking about being a follower of Jesus. The divinity was hotly debated for by Christians for hundreds of years. The Rituals and even the holidays that are celebrated by Christians today, have more to do with Pagan Roman gods then anything else. The Roman emperor Constantine made christianity the official religion of Rome. The most powerful cult in Rome at that time were those that worshipped the Sun God. The Birth day of the Sun God was guess what? Dec 25! They also went to their temples once a week on what day? Sunday.

Easter the most sacred time of the Christian Faith should be celebrated on Passover That is when Jesus entered Jerusalem and was crucified. So why isn't it celebrated on Passover? Again it is celebrated as a calendar event that was a pagan Sun god ritual.

I don't think that the synoptics were written to refute Gnostic gospels. It's quite the opposite. The key is the Dead Sea Scrolls. We see in these scrolls a philosophy of Judaism very similar to that of Christ's(as depicted in the synoptics). There are a few differences, but more similarities and many of these scrolls predate Christianity by several hundred years. The Gnostic movement gained momentum in the Second Century and came out of the Hellenic city of Alexandria. Their philosophy is more grounded in Platonism than anything Jewish.

[Topper]

I am not just referring to the Gnotics I am referring to The every first Church in Jerusalem more then the Gnostic's. My personal believe is the Gnostic's were closer to the truth then the church of today. The dead sea scrolls also present some very disturbing problems for Christianity. words that are said to be those of Jesus are found as you say in writings that predated his birth.

by the way you may be one of the only Christians here who seems to have done more then gone to a few Bible study classes. I once called myself a born Again Christian. But as I studied more and read other sources I came to the conclusion that the Church started going astray with Paul. Constantine made the Church more roman pegan, rather then in keeping with it's Jewish roots.

[burning 4 revenge]

The Koran:cool: tells of Jesus the profit.

Not Jesus the Son of God/ Not the Lord God.

The Qu'ran tells of Jesus the Prophet.

 

Modern evangelical Christianity tells of Jesus the profit.

[lonelybird]

The Gospels in the Bible are not the earliest Christian writings. Paul and the very first followers of Jesus were in conflict. What we today Know as the New testament are the gospels that made it into the Bible. But they are not the only gospels. There are earlier writing The Bible was created 300 years after the death of Jesus. At what is Known as the Nicene Conference. Many of the Gospels read as if they were written to refute earlier writings such as the Gospel of Mary and Thomas The Chruch That was growing in Roman became very strong. They took over The Christan movement, they wrote the history, They set about to destroy any other way of thinking about being a follower of Jesus. The divinity was hotly debated for by Christians for hundreds of years. The Rituals and even the holidays that are celebrated by Christians today, have more to do with Pagan Roman gods then anything else. The Roman emperor Constantine made christianity the official religion of Rome. The most powerful cult in Rome at that time were those that worshipped the Sun God. The Birth day of the Sun God was guess what? Dec 25! They also went to their temples once a week on what day? Sunday.

Easter the most sacred time of the Christian Faith should be celebrated on Passover That is when Jesus entered Jerusalem and was crucified. So why isn't it celebrated on Passover? Again it is celebrated as a calendar event that was a pagan Sun god ritual.

 

Is ritual so important, which day? God look into people's heart. It is a way that people express their thanks and love to God, and also show love to brothers and sisters

[Love Hurts]

Your quoting of Biblical text does not support your argument. They are text written a long time after the death of Jesus.

There some other text do support the Idea of Jesus and miracles but some go further and tell of some very dark Miracles. In one Jesus as child is said to have become angry with another young boy. In a rage, He turns the child into a bird then kills the bird. Mary is pretty upset as any Mother would be. Jesus sees the Boys family grieving and is remorseful He brings the child back to life. So much for the innocent Lamb of God.

You do not need to go to Jerusalem to learn more just look up the Gnostic's and that should lead you to other information.

In the beginning the Followers of Jesus were seen as a sub group of Jews. The very first Chruch in Jerusalem was headed by the Brother of Jesus James. James became very upset when Paul starter baptising non Jews. James said in order for non Jews to follow Jesus they had to become Jewish. That would mean men had to be circumcised. Adult male circumcision in that time would be very painful. It would be painful today. Paul and James wrote letters back and forth on this. Paul was in Roman. This also when he had his dream that as followers of Jesus you no longer had to follow kosher laws. When Jesus was on trial he was ask do you preach against the Laws? He said No That He was for the spirit of the Law. So why was he put to death? Think about this his only violent act is when he went to the Temple and knocked over The tables of the Money changers and those conducting business in the Temple. The Money changers were there so that Jews from all over could exchange their money so they could but Lambs to sacrifice at the Alter. This was big business in that time. Many in The Priesthood were worried because Jesus by that time had a very large following. The Romans feared riots would brake out. The High Priest were afraid that they could loose control of the temple and the profits they had become accustom to. he was killed not for claiming to be the son of God but because he was a threat to the Political structure.

Paul and the Chruch in Jerusalem eventually split from each other.

 

Are you Muslim?

 

There some other text do support the Idea of Jesus and miracles

but some go further and tell of some very dark Miracles.

In one Jesus as child is said to have become angry with another young boy.

 

In a rage, He turns the child into a bird then kills the bird.

Mary is pretty upset as any Mother would be.

 

Jesus sees the Boys family grieving and is remorseful

He brings the child back to life. So much for the innocent Lamb of God.

[Love Hurts]

The Qu'ran tells of Jesus the Prophet.

 

Modern evangelical Christianity tells of Jesus the profit.

 

Your missing the rest:

 

[Topper; I believe in God I also believe that Jesus was a great Rabi. I also believe he reached a state of grace a Divine state He is not God he never claimed to be God.]

 

Sounds like the Koran?

[Love Hurts]

Jesus: Son of God?

 

Jesus is the Son of God in reference to His entrance into the world in a body of flesh.

 

Luke 1:35 states, "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

 

 

Isa. 7:14 states, "Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel." Matthew 1:23 repeats, "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

 

 

Isa. 9:6 says, "For unto us a child is born (humanity of Christ), unto us a Son is given (deity of Christ): and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

 

 

1 Tim.3:16 tells us, "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

 

Phil. 2:5-8 tells us that Jesus, "being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God" and yet He "made himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man…"

 

Those verses show that Jesus was equal with God, yet humbled Himself and took the form of a servant.

 

Look at John 5:18 and see that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus "because He not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God."

[CardPlay3r]

LH, how's the "write down all of the bible in hundreds of meaningless posts" project going?

[Love Hurts]

LH, how's the "write down all of the bible in hundreds of meaningless posts" project going?

 

Hi CardPlay3r, small world lot of material to cover; lets get to work*

[Rooster_DAR]

LH, how's the "write down all of the bible in hundreds of meaningless posts" project going?

 

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

[bluetuesday]

All indications in the three synoptics and the letters of Paul portray him firmly in the Apocalyptic tradition that was very strong at that time, especially among the Essenes. What might have made him different than the Essenes, or other related Apocalyptics is that at some point it was claimed that he was the Son of God. The Gospel of Mark (the earliest gospel) attributes his death to this claim.

 

you are right about the apocalyptic bit - it is stated in one of the synoptics that jesus himself thought the second coming was imminent and would take place before the people alive then had died. paul was also an 'any-day'er. so much for knowing everything, huh?! i love the fact that jesus was wrong about this. it shows he wasn't perfect. he was a man just like you.

 

however, i am not saying jesus didn't also claim to be divine. i am saying he made no claim to be especially divine. he didn't claim to be the ONLY son of god, and he didn't claim he was anything everyone else couldn't be. the conculsion of his beliefs is that he thought everyone was a son or daughter of god. and not just metaphorically.

 

But didn't he also say, "I am That I Am," which is a direct quote from the OT when Moses asks God who He is?

 

I'm Jewish, but I always thought the above quote was the main proof that Christ thought he was divine.

 

yes, as i just said to b4r, he did claim to be divine but he didn't claim, ever, to be the only divine manifestation of god. he said the opposite of that - that all could do what he had done (and what he had done was outward signs of the god within him - or more accurately, what he had been was a vessel for god, since he claimed he could do nothing himself without god).

[PussInHeels]

I prefer not to deal with organized religion but I believe in fate and some sort of creator.

[Storyrider]

yes, as i just said to b4r, he did claim to be divine but he didn't claim, ever, to be the only divine manifestation of god. he said the opposite of that - that all could do what he had done (and what he had done was outward signs of the god within him - or more accurately, what he had been was a vessel for god, since he claimed he could do nothing himself without god).

 

But he believed he could forgive sins and said he came to fulfill the law. In the Jewish tradition only the one God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob could do those things. Did he believe everyone could do them?

[burning 4 revenge]

But he believed he could forgive sins and said he came to fulfill the law. In the Jewish tradition only the one God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob could do those things. Did he believe everyone could do them?

Blue will tell you yes, I'll say no and nobody knows exactly what he meant.

 

It's telling, however, to read the letters of Paul and see how much he emphasizes salvation through Jesus Christ. Like I said the letters of Paul predate the gospels and are the first window into the historical figure of Jesus. The gospels were written some 50-100 years after his death and the facts and legends had quite a bit of time to intermingle.

 

Paul sees the world coming to an end. Paul is interested in salvation through faith in Christ. Some intellectual revisionists want to think that Paul was a Gnostic who meant salvation in the sense of removing yourself from temporal worries and concentrating on your spirit and that Jesus was a fictional personification of wisdom. I don't get that from reading Paul. It seems he's speaking of a real historical person (read first and second corinthians) who performed miracles and promised eternal life through faith in him. And it seems pretty clear that this man made claims to be the Messiah and the Son of God.

[Topper]

Why would you think I was a Muslim? If you had read my post you would know that if anything I would be closer to being Jewish. When you stop looking at The New testament as the end all of religious writing You see everything so much clearer. I said this more then once Early followers of Jesus did not, I repeat did not think Jesus was God. It was 300 years later that That the Christian Chruch in Roman gave Jesus status as God 300 years later. The new testament isa flawed document. The king James Bible is the worse! look up King James. He was a Homosexual. He and his life long lover did the translations and they did a poor job.

[burning 4 revenge]

Why would you think I was a Muslim? If you had read my post you would know that if anything I would be closer to being Jewish. When you stop looking at The New testament as the end all of religious writing You see everything so much clearer. I said this more then once Early followers of Jesus did not, I repeat did not think Jesus was God. It was 300 years later that That the Christian Chruch in Roman gave Jesus status as God 300 years later. The new testament isa flawed document. The king James Bible is the worse! look up King James. He was a Homosexual. He and his life long lover did the translations and they did a poor job.

I think they did think Jesus was God. We have snippets of NT manuscripts from the second century that predate the Council of Nicea. There are other Gnostic writing that have been discovered from the second century that contextually give indications of the struggle between Gnostics and Literalist Christians, so we know they existed. Marcus Aurelias who was Caesar in the mid 100's put to death scores of Christians who believed they were going to Heaven. That theory that you're refering to is probably from some horsesh*t revisionist who isn't a proper scholar.

[Topper]

Yes there was debate between groups in the 2nd century debate on a lot of things related to who and what Jesus was. But the first church the Church that was founded maybe with in a year of his crucifiction the chruch headed by James most likely did not think Jesus was God. Holy Yes more then a Profit yes, but not equal to or a God. The Church in Roman want after any church that disagreed with them They destroyed documents and some of the earliest christian writing were burned. The killed other Christians that did not agree with them. Why is there so many large gaps in the time line of the early Christian movement? The movement shifted from jerusalem to roman if perched anything that was not from Roman you risk your life. .

No need to get nasty with comments like "Horse**** revisionist " comments like that only make you look bad. You don't like the message you attack the messenger. You only want to see what you want to see. I was once like you. yes I was a born again Christian did all the bible study classes, every wednesday evening. Then I started to question things. I ask questions and then I was politely ask to leave. You Keep going back to new testament text. There is way more then New testament text. The gospel of Mary. The gospel of Thomas. The resently discover gospel of Judas.

[Storyrider]

I was once like you. yes I was a born again Christian

 

You should reread B4R's orginal point a few pages back. He was saying Christ was egotistical for thinking himself divine.

[bluetuesday]

Blue will tell you yes, I'll say no and nobody knows exactly what he meant.

 

oh to be so predictable.

 

storyrider, i think the key is in your words 'in the jewish tradition'. jesus was born into a jewish family but spent quite a lot of his time as an adult subverting the jewish tradition. i am pretty sure the answer would be that he was more bothered about telling people the truth than by being seen as the fulfilment of a jewish tradition he didn't uphold.

 

he referred to the jewish leaders at the time as 'blind guides' and their traditions and beliefs as being full of 'dead men's bones'. that is not to say he didn't respect the faith, but he also recognised its need to change.

 

yes, it would have been seen by those familiar and dedicated to the jewish scriptures that jesus was claiming to be the god of abraham. but the ancient scriptures left zero room for an alternative to being god or being man. in those scriptures, man is man and inherently sinful and god is god and perfect. there is no middle ground.

 

jesus came to teach that a middle ground exists. his life was a display of it. he was both man and god. but this was impossible to the jewish leaders. so while he risked death, due to his teachings being blasphemous according to them, it seems to have been more important to him that he begin to show people a new way, regardless of what the scriptures said or how it would look.

 

i firmly believe that while jesus saw many things that he felt needed to be changed about the jewish tradition, he knew that at the heart of all religion is man's desire to reach god, and that is a pire desire that is to be respected. religions begin in earnest, even if they become perverted.

 

regarding jesus claim that he could forgive sins - there is a deeper meaning behind this statement. i personally do not believe the forgiveness of sins is necessary or that god wants people to see themselves as miserable sinners. the reason for this is that while people see themselves as inherently bad, they will never feel truly connected to god in the way jesus was. they will always see themselves as needing someone or something outside themseves in order to be saved and they will never believe that the kingdon of god is within them.

 

yet, jesus was born in a time when people were entrenched in a culture and belief where they would never have accepted a view of god that he was all forgiving, and that all he required from you was a change of heart. when jesus spoke to sinners he did not ask them to beg for forgiveness, he asked them to change their hearts and stop doing what it was they were doing that was hurting themselves and other people. in other words, jesus came to show that a change of heart can transport you from a sinner to a non-sinner.

 

if we look at the word sin as not being something we do 'against' god, but as an action that is out of alignment with the will of god, a sin ceases to be something tragic we will be punished for unless we repent. a sin starts to be an opportunity for us to realise that a certain action is harmful to ourselves or other people and we can use that realisation as a stepping stone to growth. in this way, sin will help us to change our hearts and realise that god is in them, that separation from god is an illusion caused by a false belief in our own unworthiness.

 

so in this way, jesus said 'i can forgive your sins' - not because you need to grovel or realise how unworthy you are, but because i can show you how to stop sinning and stop viewing yourself as a sinner. i can get rid of the burden of sin by showing you that you are one with god and that there is nothing to forgive once you realise your divine potential and start acting on it.

 

EDIT: by the way, the remains of the day is one of my very favourite books/films. i love your avatar.

[Storyrider]

bluetuesday, it would be hard to respond adequately to such a thoughtful post, but I wanted to touch on a few points.

 

 

storyrider, i think the key is in your words 'in the jewish tradition'. jesus was born into a jewish family but spent quite a lot of his time as an adult subverting the jewish tradition. i am pretty sure the answer would be that he was more bothered about telling people the truth than by being seen as the fulfilment of a jewish tradition he didn't uphold.

 

he referred to the jewish leaders at the time as 'blind guides' and their traditions and beliefs as being full of 'dead men's bones'. that is not to say he didn't respect the faith, but he also recognised its need to change.

 

A relevant fact about myself is that I'm a Jew married to a practicing Catholic. We have children whom, after much deliberation, are being raised as what you might call Hebrew Catholics. Of course this has formed my theology to a great extent and has made me very inclined to see Christianity as a natural extension and fulfillment of Judaism rather than as a repudiation of it, otherwise the melding of the two traditions would seem forced.

 

Wasn't Jesus' gripe with the Jews of that time that they were following the letter rather than the spirit of the law? He had a problem with Judaism as it was being practiced, not with Judaism as it was prescribed in the Torah. In other words, it wasn't the Torah that was broken. It was just the people were failing to use it properly.

 

jesus was born in a time when people were entrenched in a culture and belief where they would never have accepted a view of god that he was all forgiving, and that all he required from you was a change of heart...

 

...if we look at the word sin as not being something we do 'against' god, but as an action that is out of alignment with the will of god, a sin ceases to be something tragic we will be punished for unless we repent.

 

Jews do believe the above. The word sin, in Hebrew, means to turn away from God, and repentance is to turn towards him. The holy day of Yom Kippur is an opportunity to repent for any sins and turn back toward God. Jews believe God forgives all those who sincerely regret and want to be forgiven. Wasn't Jesus simply emphasizing this rather than inventing something new?

 

I think it is a mistake to try to truncate Christ from his Judaic roots and will lead to misinterpretations and worse. He did say (paraphrase) that he was the branch and Judaism was the root. His language is steeped in OT biblical phrasing.

 

I believe it is crucial for the future survival of both Judaism and Christianity that we recognize the connections and similarities between the two.

 

EDIT: by the way, the remains of the day is one of my very favourite books/films. i love your avatar.

 

Thanks for noticing it. I love that scene when Anthony Hopkins tries to hide the novel he is reading. Great sexual tension.