In love with W AND OW?

[outofdarkness]

thanks for the input...i try to stay on my toes and in the loop as to what he is up to, but he is the most accomplished liar I have ever known. He does it with such ease...I really want to trust him because he has taken some very big steps to prove to me that he wants to stay together and stay clean, but you're right, things like having dinner with the coworker was a big red flag because he lied to me about it...I just happened to catch him because he got sloppy with his cell inbetween trips...I hate to think about what he's done that has slipped by me...Things seem so good while he's at home, but then he travels, and I am so suspicious and he is so guarded. I have heard stories and read posts where MM have OW's in every location that they travel to...I don't want to believe this, but I can't help but wonder due to his history...He told me once, when all of this came out 2 years ago, that he didn't know how many women there had been, that he only knew most by their phone number on caller ID and never knew when one might call just to touch base and check in. It's a very scary thought that he was doing this to this extent. So scary, that I have a hard time thinking about it for any length of time...It's so much easier to push it away and pretend that all is fine..I love him, I have since I was 16, and we pretty much grew up together...It has been a devastating blow to find out that the person that you trusted more then anyone in the world would be living this double life. He was one person with us and another with the OW's..I know this because I did speak with and e mail with the main OW and one other who was very disrespectful and rude to me. She apparently had been told every lie in the book about me and was unwilling and/or unable to see that I simply am not the person that he portrayed me to be. As far as him paying for an occasional lunch, drinks, etc..yes, he admitted this to me, but I always suspected there was more because the few people that I trusted with my story and my therapist all said that this was bull----..Is it pretty normal for the MM to bad mouth the W? Does this always happen? Is this a MM's way of just keeping the two totally separate and gain sympathy? If the relationship with the OW is a good one, then why would a MM feel the need to bad mouth the W? Is it just because he IS married and knows he is not doing the right thing? Is it justification, I guess is what I am asking..I guess I'll call my attorney, but I am really nervous about dredging all of this up again. I almost fell apart when I filed a year ago, and he had a breakdown. Our two children were so traumatized that I was sure they had lost their spirit and love of life forever. It seems that little bits and pieces keep popping up, like tonight, our daughter told me that she had been invited to attend several events with her Dad, my H...The events that she mentioned, he had already admitted to attending with the main OW...I know he spent time with our son while with her, so it should not surprise me, but I'm still heartbroken whenever I hear something else. I trusted him so much and never thought that he would do things like this. This who Affair thing has blindsided me. I feel like I've been so sheltered and out of touch. I feel like I'm in the minority..Not that that is a bad thing, because I will stick to my beliefs and convictions, but it's a funny feeling to know that stuff like this goes on every day, every minute and just flew right by me...How could that be? I know we had babies/small children, older children, now teens, as well as a business to run, but I don't understand why I wasn't more informed about the possibility of something like this happening. I naively thought that just because I happened to go through some pretty rough patches with my core family, he would just understand and stay faithful and wait it out with me. I didn't know that because I was emotionally and physically unavailable, he would stray...Was it my fault? I know most, including my H say NO, but it's hard NOT to blame myself...As far as where the $ went, yes, I am quite sure that some was spent on the OW's but I don't think I will ever know...Also, you're right, I am sure that more ugly info will continue to trickle out...I am much stronger now then I was 2 years ago and continue to work on strengthening myself and preparing for the worst...I have to run to pick up my kids..Thanks for the support..I REALLY appreciate your honesty, and no, I don't think it was too harsh at all..I need honesty...I don't want anyone to "gloss over" thier opinions...They are all valuable to me and I get much from them...Thanks and blessings.

[stillhere]

I'm sure some did go to living expenses like you said, but just to be safe, i'd contact a lawyer.

 

It is possible that he knew he would eventually get caught, and started a "just in case" account. He may have slowly withdrawn money here and there, so it wouldn't look suspicious, and either opened an account in his name or his OW's. You never know. Hopefully this isn't the case, but it could be. He's a smart man.

 

If you go through a divorce, a judge has the ability to freeze all accounts so no one can run and clean an account out just so the other person can't get it. I'm not sure how common of a practice this is for a judge, but it can happen. Or so i think. (I could be wrong, but i swear i heard it somewhere)

 

My MM has lots of cash at home as well that she knows about. Right now it is somewhere he can only access, but if we were caught today, that's the first thing she would go for. Hopefully he hides the key well.

 

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I would never allow my MM to jeopardize his future to help me. He is well off, and he knows that i hate taking his money (that's the one thing we do fight about), but i would never expect him to support me instead of his family (unless we ended up together). This was his choice to support me, not mine.

 

I'm afraid this may not end well for you since it seems as though he hasn't changed. Contact a lawyer just in case. Please. He is blaming you and the children for things that you had no control over. He seems very selfish, and you don't deserve that.

[outofdarkness]

Thank you so much for the support and advice. Contacting my attorney just to touch base and fill him in seems to be what everyone thinks I should do. I will call on Monday...Just in case I don't get back on this wknd..Hope you all have a blessed on...Thanks again.

[outofdarkness]

Hi everyone! I did indeed contact my attorney and updated him..For now, we are waiting and watching. I am going to treat things differently now that I am more informed...I know that it's not a good idea to confront right away...I have another question for you all..How many times does the A end, ie., the W finds out and all hell breaks loose, and the MM and OW let things calm down for a bit before starting to see each other again. The reason I am asking is that the main OW of my H told me the time that we spoke by phone, that they had an anniversary...Is this common for MM and OW to celebrate anniversary? Anywho, it was on July 4th..Apparently they met at a fireworks celebration...This past summer, all seemed fine and then on the 4th, suddenly, my H became angry while grilling out..Food was thrown, utensils went flying, etc..I did not understand b/c everything was so calm...I do not tolerate this sort of behavior, so when my Mom arrived to eat and watch fireworks with us, I asked her to leave..The excuse he had given me was that he does not like to see her b/c it reminds him that he might have to financially support her someday...There have been many financial problems with my parent's, and he has helped.. I packed a bag and spent the night at her place. My question is this: Do you all think that he was looking for a reason to storm out so that he could spend their anniv. date together? I have heard from other OW posters that you all do celebrate anniv...How do I know if she is back in the picture? I know from talking to her that she was in love with him...She even asked me during one of our separations, by e mail, what my intentions were. I respected her for asking but at the time, I just didn't know. Any insight is appreciated. Hope all of you are well...

[lasan]

I haven't read all of this thread but I did catch the part about the stashed money.

 

Outofdarkness- I joned this site to help a friend who suspected his wife was cheating on him. He found out she was indeed cheating a month ago. She doesn't know that he knows. He has started stashing money away so he can pay the retainer on the divorce lawyer and move out. It's not hard to stash little bits of money as an exit fund. If you notice missing money it's a huge red flag! I am glad you have a lawyer and I hope that everything goes well for you.

[stillhere]

Hi everyone! I did indeed contact my attorney and updated him..For now, we are waiting and watching. I am going to treat things differently now that I am more informed...I know that it's not a good idea to confront right away...I have another question for you all..How many times does the A end, ie., the W finds out and all hell breaks loose, and the MM and OW let things calm down for a bit before starting to see each other again. The reason I am asking is that the main OW of my H told me the time that we spoke by phone, that they had an anniversary...Is this common for MM and OW to celebrate anniversary? Anywho, it was on July 4th..Apparently they met at a fireworks celebration...This past summer, all seemed fine and then on the 4th, suddenly, my H became angry while grilling out..Food was thrown, utensils went flying, etc..I did not understand b/c everything was so calm...I do not tolerate this sort of behavior, so when my Mom arrived to eat and watch fireworks with us, I asked her to leave..The excuse he had given me was that he does not like to see her b/c it reminds him that he might have to financially support her someday...There have been many financial problems with my parent's, and he has helped.. I packed a bag and spent the night at her place. My question is this: Do you all think that he was looking for a reason to storm out so that he could spend their anniv. date together? I have heard from other OW posters that you all do celebrate anniv...How do I know if she is back in the picture? I know from talking to her that she was in love with him...She even asked me during one of our separations, by e mail, what my intentions were. I respected her for asking but at the time, I just didn't know. Any insight is appreciated. Hope all of you are well...

 

Oh OOD, i'm so sorry that you have to deal with all of this. I hope my MM's W never does find out and have to deal with this. I hope she never hurts like this. I do have a conscience, i don't want to hurt anyone. I know it seems almost inevitable, and what i'm doing is horribly wrong, but i do love this man.............

 

As for celebrating "our" anniversary, yes we do. Ours was on August 5th and he was with me on that day. He bought me presents, and made it a point to get away so he could spend some quality time with me.

 

On "their" anniversary, he did not spend a minute at home with her, he spent that day with me as well. She wanted him to go away for the weekend with her so they could celebrate their anniversary, and he refused. Told her that he had to hunt.

 

I'm happy that you contacted your lawyer. I don't know what his intentions are, if he was trying to get away on the 4th of July or not, but it was clear that he was upset about something. His OW could have been the reason for that. I know if my MM and i are arguing or he is upset because i'm going out and he's afraid that i'll find someone new, he does have a mood change and he takes it out on her. She doesn't deserve it, and he agrees that she doesn't, but he's worried about me, so she's the one who deals with it.

 

I wish you luck OOD, you sound very sweet and forgiving, and you don't deserve any of this, as well as my MM's W. She is a very kind person like you, and i hope that she never finds out and i don't turn her world upside down. I wish things could have been different, that i wouldn't have been so selfish. Someday i'll get my head on straight, but for right now, i can't walk away from him. Keep your eyes and ears open, this doesn't sound good.

[outofdarkness]

Oh OOD, i'm so sorry that you have to deal with all of this. I hope my MM's W never does find out and have to deal with this. I hope she never hurts like this. I do have a conscience, i don't want to hurt anyone. I know it seems almost inevitable, and what i'm doing is horribly wrong, but i do love this man.............

 

As for celebrating "our" anniversary, yes we do. Ours was on August 5th and he was with me on that day. He bought me presents, and made it a point to get away so he could spend some quality time with me.

I thank you for your honesty, but reading your thoughts really is baffling to me, as well as hurtful...I don't understand, and I really HAVE tried so hard, how two people can knowingly hurt another human being...What is so bad about getting a divorce? Why don't these MM's just get a divorce if they want to be with someone else?

 

On "their" anniversary, he did not spend a minute at home with her, he spent that day with me as well. She wanted him to go away for the weekend with her so they could celebrate their anniversary, and he refused. Told her that he had to hunt.

The wedding anniversary of the W and MM is a sacred and special day for the couple but also the family of both indiv...It is an open, honest and special day many times for entire groups..Again, I am having trouble understanding why the MM just doesn't leave if he wants to be with the OW...One of the first things that I said to my H when I found out was that I just do not want to be with someone who does not want to be with me! I know it was never about money as we have been married for 20 years and know one another for almost 30, and there have been times when we have had $500K in the bank with salaries of over $400k combined and times when we have had nothing in the bank and under $200k...He never left...didn't even hint at it...Although according to the main OW, he did not leave because he stated that he did not work so hard to hand it over to someone else and that noone in his family ever gets divorced. These ARE two things I can hear him saying, so it was not a surprise to hear them...

 

I'm happy that you contacted your lawyer. I don't know what his intentions are, if he was trying to get away on the 4th of July or not, but it was clear that he was upset about something. His OW could have been the reason for that.

I know if my MM and i are arguing or he is upset because i'm going out and he's afraid that i'll find someone new, he does have a mood change and he takes it out on her. She doesn't deserve it, and he agrees that she doesn't, but he's worried about me, so she's the one who deals with it.

I am afraid that this information applies to myself and our children as well. Not only was he taking out the frustration of being in the A and I suppose just the stress of it all, on myself, but on our kids as well. Mostly it was verbal but I can count on one hand physical incidents as well. All of this behavior has stopped..As this was a strict condition of mine if he wanted to reconcile. Again, I have much trouble understanding how the MM and OW are not a total wreck in thinking about this and actually causing it or in the case of the MM, actually inflicting it..I have thought many times, if the OW in my case could just see what it's like to have to take care of two children 11 months apart, work full time, socialize as we are expected to and have sex on demand, etc, etc, etc, mabey she would understand why it is not realistic for W's to be waiting at the door with a nighty on and dinner ready with kids tucked in, soft music playing and a clean home...I think that A's are very unrealistic. In my opinion, the OW gets the good part of the MM. The H has someone else to talk to, have sex with, share stories about his work with, even share his children and pets, as my OW did...The W is then stuck with what's left over, which is NOT much except for anger, frustration, guilt, confusion and anger...I am not blaming one over the other, just saying that the whole thing seem so fairy landish to me...Of course it's going to be so much easier for the MM and the OW to be happy and spend quality time together! There are no distractions..No bills to pay, no child that has the croup, no dirty dishes, and a woman who is willing to be available to him at any time and cater to his beckon call. What man would NOT want this? Wanting and actually pursuing and acting out are different. My H's OW told me in our one phone call that all men cheat..I do not believe this...Men, here's your chance to speak up! I believe that all men are tempted, but there are some who do not give in...You see, it is not just us, the W's who dictate what is acceptable, it is our culture, our society, or religion of choice, etc...We get the blame, but there are many other sources that say that A's are just plain wrong...I am sorry to seem as though I am raging at you, I am not, merely trying to state my opinion and understand what I have not for so long.

 

I wish you luck OOD, you sound very sweet and forgiving, and you don't deserve any of this, as well as my MM's W. She is a very kind person like you, and i hope that she never finds out and i don't turn her world upside down.

Thank you so much for the compliment, I really appreciate it.. On another note, I am so happy that my H's main OW wrote me the letter...I wish so very much that someone, ANYONE had the guts to tell me what my H was doing, and MANY people in our little community knew..I understand why they did not come forth, but I do not agree with it...Thanks for taking the time to try to help me understand...Best of luck to you as well.. I wish things could have been different, that i wouldn't have been so selfish. Someday i'll get my head on straight, but for right now, i can't walk away from him. Keep your eyes and ears open, this doesn't sound good.

As I said earlier, I know what I am looking for now, so I will be more discreet...I am also much stronger emotionally then I was and feel much better about the possibility of being on my own...

[stillhere]

I understand your frustrations and your rage. I can't and won't blame you for that. I would feel the same way if i was in your situation. I'm sure i would be reacting a little differently than you if i found out the man i love was in love with another woman. Not sure i could be so forgiving and understanding like you. I give you a lot of credit.

 

As far as getting the good parts of him and not the bad, i agree and disagree. Yes, i get the amazing points, but i have to admit that these are points that she didn't want to get to know. Because of her inability to open up, she never got to know all of him. He is a totally different man than she has ever known. Yes that is my fault, but it is something that he has been missing and craving, just not knowing exactly what it was.

 

When it comes to the bad, we argue more than him and her ever have. We argue about everything a normal couple would. I, on the other hand, get his full range of emotions, something she does not get. To everyone, and i mean everyone, he shuts down. If he is upset, you don't speak to him. That is a known fact. I am the one and only person he opens up to. I get it all. He has never felt comfortable enough with anyone to talk to them openly.

 

I wish that he would just divorce if he is not happy at home. I don't want him to divorce for me. But my MM sounds the same as your H, he didn't work his tail off to hand it all to someone else. His children are a main reason as well. He doesn't want to hurt them.

 

There is no way i can justify our actions to you or anyone else. We are wrong, this i know. I hate being second best, but right now i'm following my heart instead of my head. I don't expect you to accept what "we" are doing, but i'm trying to give you my point of view. When my version is no longer needed, let me know and i will stop.

[outofdarkness]

Your version and anyone else's is always welcome on this thread. I am here to see the big picture and to try to gain a better understanding of why A's happen and how they happen. You have been very helpful..The fact that we disagree on certain things, or that we just don't understand just how the other feels, does not mean that we don't appreciate or respect each other's feelings, does it? I am putting words in your mouth, sorry...I do have a question for you..Do you actually KNOW her, or do you just know what he tells you about her? The reason I'm asking is that my H's OW admitted that I was nothing like I had been portrayed by him...He was not honest with either one of us..Do you think that she does not open up to him because that is what she told you? I don't think that is necessarily fair because you don't know her personally, at least I'm assuming you don't..There comes a time in everyone's marriage, when you just hit a slump, and communication is not as good as it was. It takes time and effort to keep things going smoothly..This is something that runs in short supply during various parts of the marriage. I am also assuming that you all don't have children together? This also changes the picture. A couple's marriage changes tremendously once kids enter the picture. It's hard for some, not all, but some men to actually be in the LDR room when their children are born, then it becomes hard when they are toddlers because they demand so much attention, then the reach the pre pubescent years, and there are issue about that, and then the famous teen years, which speak for themselves. If you throw in dual careers, extended family issues, financial worries, etc...it's really hard to keep your marriage just like it was when you first got together. Marriages, and relationships in general are constantly evolving, and it's just not realistic to think that you are always going to have that strong emotional and physical connection that you had when you were first married..I am not bashing you or trying to compete, just giving you my take on it. My "D Day" took place over 2 years ago, so I stay pretty grounded and calm, although I do have bad days and even weeks, where everything comes flooding back. Thank God that the main OW as well as the others stay away from me. As I said, I do not know 100 percent if they stay away from my H, but I can usually tell by his behavior if something is even close to being amiss...Yes, my H and your MM do sound alot alike, but it seems that it was not so hard for him to open up to his OW's...He told every little intimate detail about our marriage, our children, everything...He rationalized it away by saying that he just needed a "friend"....This was even harder for me and more of a betrayal to me then the physical part. I hated what it did to my kids, and I hated myself for not being more informed and/or pushing away what I HAD observed...I really spent alot of time beating myself up for the first year...Then it started to get better, and I realized that the A was not because of me...It was my H and his inability to resist tempation as well as his great ability to compartmentalize. I posted on another thread about conferences that business associates attend, my H included. Having a home based consulting business, I really had no idea what a hot bed these events are for cheaters. As far as I am concerned, a cheater who travels for work has so many more opportunities to cheat...Throw in the exec who makes great money and you've got a lethal mix...Also, I wanted you to know that the main OW was devastated when she found out that she, too, had been cheated on. I do not know how my H funtioned as well as he did considering how many lives he was leading...I don't know how in the world he kept everyone and everthing straight, except that he is an extremely good multi-tasker and has an amazing ability to plan and organize his time well. This has been a real asset in his line of work, but unfortunately, this has also enabled him to maitain his dual lifestyle as well. When all of this finally came out, he cried for what seemed like weeks, day and night 24/7..He had a complete breakdown...I was worried that he actually WOULD lose his job! One more thing, when the main OW told me what he had said about losing everything he had worked so hard for, the first thing I told him is let's go to a mediator, divide all if half you go your way and I'll go mine..He would not leave...I wanted nothing more then to start my life over...no fights over money, kids, etc...It was not until after he became abusive and his behavior told me something was up again, that I finally actually filed for divorce. It was not a pretty picture, but I felt totally justified due to the fact that I had given him every opportunity to leave and have things done as hassle free as possible in every way... It was only after we had been in MC for over six months and he went away to a short stint in a trmt ctr, and he came out and confessed to me that he had continued one of his relationships, that I filed and really came down on him...I was devastated and could not live like that anymore. It had been going on since I was 29 years old, and I felt like so many things would have been different had he been honest with me in the beginning. I questioned litterally every decision that I had ever made in my life...I had even had surgery so that I was unable to have any more children. Had I been given the opportunity, I might not have chosen to make this move..Mabey I would have stayed with him, but mabey I would have chosen to find someone else and they wanted kids...What would I have said? I was so sure that I would spend the rest of my life with him...I know I am rambling, and thanks for taking the time to read my posts...

[stillhere]

Yes, i do know her. I've met her, spent time with her, and talked to her on many occasions. She is not a friend as i don't want her as one. If things were not as they are, i could be friends with her.

 

He has NEVER talked bad about her to me. He never will. She has not done anything horribly wrong to him, so he has no reason to. Many things about her upbringing has made her the person she is. I can't fault her for that. But because of this, she does not fulfill many of his needs. Needs that are selfish on his part, but apparently important to him.

 

He has never been as close with her as he is with me. My MM is a workaholic. He does not spend much time at home. Never has. Ever since he was about 14 years old, he's worked his tail off. Granted, this is no excuse, but it is a fact. He is never home, and she's known about this since the day they met. He explained that to her before they got married and she agreed to it. So with the fact that he's never home, and her inability to open up, there is a huge weakness in their marriage. Both are to blame, although neither one has done this purposely.

 

No, i do not have children with him. And i will never be able to have children with him. That is a decision he made 3 years prior to me. That is fine.

 

I do understand what you mean when you say that children change everything. I agree. As does bills, and housework and everything else. He does help around the house on the weekends and when he goes home at night. If dishes are in the sink, he does them. If clothes need to be folded, he does that. He'll cook supper on the weekends so she can relax. He bathes the children if he gets home in time. He does not put the weight of everything on her shoulders. She is not a horrible person, and either is he.

 

Yes, it seems like we live in a fairy tale, but that isn't even close to it. We do have the troubles of every day life. I know that you are saying that i don't deal with him like she does, but in a way, i do. It's just a little different than what she does. Like i said, he's open with me, not her. He rarely sees her, and this has been throughout their whole marriage. I guess it's a little hard for me to explain it, you'd have to know the entire situation.

 

I know he's not happy at home. He just goes through the motions and she has no clue that anything is wrong. Personally, i believe that she is relieved that he is no longer bothering her in the bedroom. (I know i would have been if my stbxh would have quit, but that's a whole different story). I'm not sure that she is a 100% happy either. This is a lifestyle that she has become accustomed to and is comfortable with the way things are because they've always been this way. She deals with it, as does he. He claims that if there were no children (which he never did want children in the first place) he would not be there still. I don't know. But now that there is children in the picture, they are his pride and joy and he doesn't want to hurt them.

 

I can tell you that as far as i know, he has always been honest with me. And i mean honest. If i ask the question, and he knows it's not the answer i want, he will say it anyways. Regardless. He does not sugar coat anything, he tells it like it is. That is him, and i expect nothing less.

 

I can tell you one thing that i've learned from all this, never again will i date a married man. Never. If he and i do not end up together, i will have learned my lesson. There is just too much heartache and pain involved for my liking. This i do not enjoy.

 

Like i said, i don't expect you to accept our relationship. I have a hard time with it as well, but when you love someone, you do stupid things. And in my case, continue to do stupid things. If i was strong enough to walk away, i would. My heart won't let me do that.

 

I hope i haven't opened any wounds, as that is not my intention. I'm just trying to be honest with you.

 

OOD, could you break up your posts like i have, it makes it easier to read, especially when you write long ones.

[outofdarkness]

Yes, I will break up the posts...sorry, I get so passionate in my writing that I forget that someone else is actually going to read them...thanks for the input...I am curious to know...You said you know her well..Does she know that you are the OW? One of the things that my H's OW said to me was that she thought I knew and that if she had the slightest inclination that I did not know, she would have like to think that she would not have continued it...

[stillhere]

No, she does not know that i am the OW. That's why i can't befriend her and i do not want her to befriend me. I try to keep my distance for that exact reason. If i am somewhere that she is, i will not ignore her. I will talk to her and we get along great. I just have a hard time looking her in the eyes, as i know what kind of pain she will endure someday if she finds out.

 

If i do end up someplace that my MM and his W are at, he will stand by me. Happens every time. He still attends to her, but he attends to my daughter, his children, and myself more than her. I notice, but no one else seems to. Or no one has said anything. That is also his nature, to nurture those around, and he's always done this, just not to this extent.

 

He will go out of his way to talk to my daughter and play with her. She knows who he is, but not who he is to me. She does not know that we are together, and she never will. He does not come around when she is with me, except at parties or if we're at his house for something or what not. She will never know that we are involved unless he was to leave his W and we ended up together. In fact, if it wasn't him i was with, i would not be flaunting any men in front of her unless i was serious about them. My job is to protect her first, she comes first no matter what.

 

As far as if i thought she knew about us, or had an idea, would i stop? I really don't know. I'd like to think i would. If she were to find out, i have a feeling that she would kick him out. He doesn't know what she would do. I don't think she'd be able to forgive him or trust him again. I don't know. We haven't gotten that far yet, and hopefully never do. We've been together for 14 months now, and i tell him that the longer this goes on, the chances of us getting caught continue to go up, yet he's the one who can't let go either. He's well aware of the consequences, and what he has to lose. I wish i could see into the future, but i can't, so i just live day by day.

[outofdarkness]

No, she does not know that i am the OW. That's why i can't befriend her and i do not want her to befriend me. I try to keep my distance for that exact reason. If i am somewhere that she is, i will not ignore her. I will talk to her and we get along great. I just have a hard time looking her in the eyes, as i know what kind of pain she will endure someday if she finds out.

The main OW in my H's life lived around the block from where we lived, around the corner from our kid's school, across the road from where I grocery shopped, and yes, even in the same office/condo complex where we first started MC years ago for different reason, or so I thought. He had bought her a condo in this complex...apparently as part of their "arrangement" as my H put it...He swore up and down and all around that NOONE had EVER seen him coming in an out of her condo garage/entrance, but this went on for 10 years, and I don't think there is a person on the face of this planet who would believe that! He also swore up and down that he had NEVER spent ANY money on her or any of the other OW's. I actually believed him about these things until I started to open up and talk to people and got into IC..I realized how sheltered I had been, and how many signs were there that I just simply could not deal with or on some level I knew and my mind just wasn't capable of dealing with the thought.

 

At the same time, my parent's were going thru a very nasty divorce and my Dad was very abusive and angry towards me because I helped my Mom. He had admitted after a lifetime that he was a transvestite. We all knew that he had problems, but NEVER in my wildest imagination did I ever think of anything like this. A vengeful extended relative showed up at my house one day and dropped the bombshell. I went into a deep depression and had trouble focusing on everything except helping my Mom get out of a very bad and potentially dangerous situation. He had many other problems other then the above and was making very scary stmts, threats, etc. I became consumed with this and was not able to be emotionally or physically available to either my H or my children.

I might add that this this info did come AFTER the main A apparently started, although I always link the two together.

My H accompanied me to court many times regarding my Dad, stood by me every second and even helped me convince my Mom that she needed to leave. All the while, he was cheating. I don't know how he lived with himself, except that like I said in an earlier post, he is extremely good at compartmentalizing...

 

If i do end up someplace that my MM and his W are at, he will stand by me. Happens every time. He still attends to her, but he attends to my daughter, his children, and myself more than her. I notice, but no one else seems to. Or no one has said anything

Most people, I have come to find out, do indeed know about A's, they just don't know how to approach the subject. I would have appreciated an anonymous letter or anything to let me in on it...Also, my H was telling everyone bad things about me and so was my Mother in Law. My H is very charming, comes from a very well respected and upstanding family in our community..Noone in a million years would have guessed that he was anything but perfect, let alone having an A...Many have told me this since all of this came out. So..There were alot that knew due to the length of time that it went on but also, people just didn't suspect because of his standing in the community...I, on the other hand, did not grow up here, have always been considered lower then his family and the people that he grew up with, so it was all too easy for people to believe anything bad that either my H or one of the OW's said about me...It was heartbreaking because I know that I am a good person and that I would NEVER just "look the other way" as so many do in this little community just to save my supposed comy lifestyle. People had no idea that things were NOT what they seemed in our home.

There was much verbal abuse and it was miserable for all of us for a number of years. As I said earlier, the worst part of this for me has been the guilt that I feel for not recognizing what was really going on and doing something about it sooner. I simply had no other place to go. My only option was a shelter due to my parent's situation, and I had heard horror stories about them, so it really was not an option.

That is also his nature, to nurture those around, and he's always done this, just not to this extent.

 

He will go out of his way to talk to my daughter and play with her. She knows who he is, but not who he is to me. She does not know that we are together, and she never will. He does not come around when she is with me, except at parties or if we're at his house for something or what not.

She will never know that we are involved unless he was to leave his W and we ended up together.

 

It is possible that the W in your case already knows and is in denial or just doesn't know what to do...This happens alot more then you think and it's not only so that the W can keep up a nice lifestyle. My H was constantly berating myself and our children about spending money, and I worked too! It never stopped...It was night, day, anytime and all of the time. It was not until all of this came out two years ago, that I realized that it was not myself and the kids who had spent the money, as he had me convinced, but him in supporting the A's...In fact, if it wasn't him i was with, i would not be flaunting any men in front of her unless i was serious about them. My job

is to protect her first, she comes first no matter what.

 

I understand that you want to protect her, but you really are not protecting her. What about her right to make informed decisions about HER life? She might want to leave and make a new life for herself...I do believe that withholding information is equal to being dishonest...She really does have the right to know. Yes, it is ugly, but if you all truly love each other, then you will last and things will work out. It would be a real test of his love for you. I understand his feelings of obligation towards his children, but is he doing them any favors by staying in an unhappy marriage and betraying them? Every time you all are together, and he goes home, it creates added tension in the home. Would there be tension anyway? Based on what you have said, yes, but do you want to directly contribute to it? You want a man who wants to be with you no matter what the circumstances. He can't have both, he must choose at some point..

 

As far as if i thought she knew about us, or had an idea, would i stop? I really don't know. I'd like to think i would. If she were to find out, i have a feeling that she would kick him out. He doesn't know what she would do. I

don't think she'd be able to forgive him or trust him again

.

 

Trust is a difficult thing to regain and must be earned...I don't know either whether or not she would be able to forgive him and trust again, but I do think that you can't be totally happy and move on until the truth comes out and all are given the opportunity to make their own decisions based on what's good for both you and your child, and he and his family...You don't want to be in a relationship that is so open ended do you? This would be very hard for me, I know..I can tell how much you love him, but love tends to be blind and you all are still sort in the "honeymoon" phase and can't see very far into the future. I wish you luck and prayers that you all find happiness and peace sooner rather then later, because I know from experience, the longer the A, the more complicated and bitter the feelings become, for ALL involved..Even if the W is not directly aware of the A, I'll be she knows SOMETHING is wrong and can't figure out what it is. don't know. We haven't gotten that far yet, and hopefully never do. We've been together for 14 months now, and i tell him that the longer this goes on, the chances of us getting caught continue to go up, yet he's the one who can't let go either.

He's well aware of the consequences, and what he has to lose. I wish i could see into the future, but i can't, so i just live day by day.

 

In a way, you CAN see into the future...Just read some of the posts in the divorce/separation forum or the infedelity forum...It's really helpful to read these and gain some insight into the other side, just as it's been so very helpful to me to hear the OW's sides of their stories. As I've said before in a past post, Undertanding is half of the battle. You can't deal with something that you don't know about or know about and don't understand...You can't forgive what you don't know...

[outofdarkness]

No, she does not know that i am the OW. That's why i can't befriend her and i do not want her to befriend me. I try to keep my distance for that exact reason. If i am somewhere that she is, i will not ignore her. I will talk to her and we get along great. I just have a hard time looking her in the eyes, as i know what kind of pain she will endure someday if she finds out.

The main OW in my H's life lived around the block from where we lived, around the corner from our kid's school, across the road from where I grocery shopped, and yes, even in the same office/condo complex where we first started MC years ago for different reason, or so I thought. He had bought her a condo in this complex...apparently as part of their "arrangement" as my H put it...He swore up and down and all around that NOONE had EVER seen him coming in an out of her condo garage/entrance, but this went on for 10 years, and I don't think there is a person on the face of this planet who would believe that! He also swore up and down that he had NEVER spent ANY money on her or any of the other OW's. I actually believed him about these things until I started to open up and talk to people and got into IC..I realized how sheltered I had been, and how many signs were there that I just simply could not deal with or on some level I knew and my mind just wasn't capable of dealing with the thought. At the same time, my parent's were going thru a very nasty divorce and my Dad was very abusive and angry towards me because I helped my Mom. He had admitted after a lifetime that he was a transvestite. We all knew that he had problems, but NEVER in my wildest imagination did I ever think of anything like this. A vengeful extended relative showed up at my house one day and dropped the bombshell. I went into a deep depression and had trouble focusing on everything except helping my Mom get out of a very bad and potentially dangerous situation. He had many other problems other then the above and was making very scary stmts, threats, etc. I became consumed with this and was not able to be emotionally or physically available to either my H or my children.

I might add that this this info did come AFTER the main A apparently started, although I always link the two together.

My H accompanied me to court many times regarding my Dad, stood by me every second and even helped me convince my Mom that she needed to leave. All the while, he was cheating. I don't know how he lived with himself, except that like I said in an earlier post, he is extremely good at compartmentalizing...

 

If i do end up someplace that my MM and his W are at, he will stand by me. Happens every time. He still attends to her, but he attends to my daughter, his children, and myself more than her. I notice, but no one else seems to. Or no one has said anything

Most people, I have come to find out, do indeed know about A's, they just don't know how to approach the subject. I would have appreciated an anonymous letter or anything to let me in on it...Also, my H was telling everyone bad things about me and so was my Mother in Law. My H is very charming, comes from a very well respected and upstanding family in our community..Noone in a million years would have guessed that he was anything but perfect, let alone having an A...Many have told me this since all of this came out. So..There were alot that knew due to the length of time that it went on but also, people just didn't suspect because of his standing in the community...I, on the other hand, did not grow up here, have always been considered lower then his family and the people that he grew up with, so it was all too easy for people to believe anything bad that either my H or one of the OW's said about me...It was heartbreaking because I know that I am a good person and that I would NEVER just "look the other way" as so many do in this little community just to save my supposed comy lifestyle. People had no idea that things were NOT what they seemed in our home.

There was much verbal abuse and it was miserable for all of us for a number of years. As I said earlier, the worst part of this for me has been the guilt that I feel for not recognizing what was really going on and doing something about it sooner. I simply had no other place to go. My only option was a shelter due to my parent's situation, and I had heard horror stories about them, so it really was not an option.

That is also his nature, to nurture those around, and he's always done this, just not to this extent.

 

He will go out of his way to talk to my daughter and play with her. She knows who he is, but not who he is to me. She does not know that we are together, and she never will. He does not come around when she is with me, except at parties or if we're at his house for something or what not.

She will never know that we are involved unless he was to leave his W and we ended up together.

It is possible that the W in your case already knows and is in denial or just doesn't know what to do...This happens alot more then you think and it's not only so that the W can keep up a nice lifestyle. My H was constantly berating myself and our children about spending money, and I worked too! It never stopped...It was night, day, anytime and all of the time. It was not until all of this came out two years ago, that I realized that it was not myself and the kids who had spent the money, as he had me convinced, but him in supporting the A's...In fact, if it wasn't him i was with, i would not be flaunting any men in front of her unless i was serious about them. My job

is to protect her first, she comes first no matter what.

I understand that you want to protect her, but you really are not protecting her. What about her right to make informed decisions about HER life? She might want to leave and make a new life for herself...I do believe that withholding information is equal to being dishonest...She really does have the right to know. Yes, it is ugly, but if you all truly love each other, then you will last and things will work out. It would be a real test of his love for you. I understand his feelings of obligation towards his children, but is he doing them any favors by staying in an unhappy marriage and betraying them? Every time you all are together, and he goes home, it creates added tension in the home. Would there be tension anyway? Based on what you have said, yes, but do you want to directly contribute to it? You want a man who wants to be with you no matter what the circumstances. He can't have both, he must choose at some point..

As far as if i thought she knew about us, or had an idea, would i stop? I really don't know. I'd like to think i would. If she were to find out, i have a feeling that she would kick him out. He doesn't know what she would do. I

don't think she'd be able to forgive him or trust him again

.

Trust is a difficult thing to regain and must be earned...I don't know either whether or not she would be able to forgive him and trust again, but I do think that you can't be totally happy and move on until the truth comes out and all are given the opportunity to make their own decisions based on what's good for both you and your child, and he and his family...You don't want to be in a relationship that is so open ended do you? This would be very hard for me, I know..I can tell how much you love him, but love tends to be blind and you all are still sort in the "honeymoon" phase and can't see very far into the future. I wish you luck and prayers that you all find happiness and peace sooner rather then later, because I know from experience, the longer the A, the more complicated and bitter the feelings become, for ALL involved..Even if the W is not directly aware of the A, I'll be she knows SOMETHING is wrong and can't figure out what it is. don't know. We haven't gotten that far yet, and hopefully never do. We've been together for 14 months now, and i tell him that the longer this goes on, the chances of us getting caught continue to go up, yet he's the one who can't let go either.

He's well aware of the consequences, and what he has to lose. I wish i could see into the future, but i can't, so i just live day by day.

 

In a way, you CAN see into the future...Just read some of the posts in the divorce/separation forum or the infedelity forum...It's really helpful to read these and gain some insight into the other side, just as it's been so very helpful to me to hear the OW's sides of their stories. As I've said before in a past post, Undertanding is half of the battle. You can't deal with something that you don't know about or know about and don't understand...You can't forgive what you don't know...

[outofdarkness]

so sorry this post was duplicated. I am still playing around with the whole posting realm and trying to figure out what the best style for me is and the most easliy readable by other posters...

[stillhere]

OOD, wow, i don't know what to say............. Your story is heartbreaking.

 

No, i know his W does not know, would never even suspect a thing. He is like your H, in a way. He is the last person on the face of this earth that anyone would guess would have an A. That is why it is so easy for us.

 

As for my daughter and allowing her to make an informed decision, she is only 5. I give her as much of my time as i possibly can. She will always come first. No one, not even the man i love, will come before her.

 

His home life is not unhappy, per se. He does not argue with his W, they never really have. But he's never home enough to be able to argue with her. They are beyond financially secure, so there are no money issues to deal with. They just don't talk to each other like a couple, they talk and act like roommates. That's why he turns to me. I fill all his emotional and physical needs.

 

I know it's hard for you to understand why i'm doing what i am. Sometimes i don't understand it myself. I'm just trying to keep my head above the water, but i know that i will get tired eventually, and pray that i don't drown. Everyone makes mistakes, and needs to learn from them.

 

I do my best to be a warning for those around me who know of my situation. My best friend was more than against my situation. She told me daily how much of a fool is was, yet was there to pick me up when i was down. You probably already guessed it...........she's now involved with a married man. The one person who refused to even glance in a MM's direction, has fallen for one. She was weak, and gave in. She knew he was married all along. And i told her, don't do this, you see what i'm going through, but she did it anyways. She had to learn on her own, knowing everything i know. She doesn't think she can change him or win him, she was just stupid.

 

Who knows why i did exactly what i did. It wasn't supposed to be like this though. Initially, it was probably an ego boost, i got the one who would never stray, and he came to me. I was lonely and wanted my own needs met. I don't know. A whole lot of stupidity! Some day i will move on, and will then be truelly happy, maybe with him, maybe without him. I don't know what will happen. But i do know that i will always love him, regardless.

[crazy_grl]

is to protect her first, she comes first no matter what.

I understand that you want to protect her, but you really are not protecting her. What about her right to make informed decisions about HER life? She might want to leave and make a new life for herself...I do believe that withholding information is equal to being dishonest...She really does have the right to know. Yes, it is ugly, but if you all truly love each other, then you will last and things will work out. It would be a real test of his love for you. I understand his feelings of obligation towards his children, but is he doing them any favors by staying in an unhappy marriage and betraying them? Every time you all are together, and he goes home, it creates added tension in the home. Would there be tension anyway? Based on what you have said, yes, but do you want to directly contribute to it? You want a man who wants to be with you no matter what the circumstances. He can't have both, he must choose at some point..

As for my daughter and allowing her to make an informed decision, she is only 5. I give her as much of my time as i possibly can. She will always come first. No one, not even the man i love, will come before her.

 

Just butting in to point out something that seems to be a miscommunication. stillhere appears to talking about her child here and outofdarkness appears to be talking about the W.

[outofdarkness]

yup..my goof..although I did like what I had to say...I was referring to the W and NOT the daughter..sorry...Big goof!

[stillhere]

Thank you cg, i was a little confused for a moment. I get kind of caught up and didn't realize that she was talking about his W. Silly me!! I need to pay better attention.

[outofdarkness]

I just posted something on another thread but thought I needed to on mine too. I can't post anymore for a time. I am upset and depressed again because I think all of the posts on OW and Infid. have really dug up some old stuff that I thought I had dealt w/ and moved on. Now, I find myself doubting everyone and everything. Yesteday when our daughter and I arrived home from school, there was a car with a woman in it sitting alittle ways down from our mailbox...I stopped, as I usually do at this time, to get the mail..She continued to sit in the same place with lights blaring, it was very cloudy and alittle dark, and when I did turn in my driveway, she moved on very slowly and stopped to look back at me..So...That and the poster who posted soemthing on another OW thread that was personally directed towards someone, it mentioned someones' name, really has me spooked...I need a break...Thanks to ALL of you for your kindness, compassion and advice..Although I am feeling down right now, I have no doubt that the insight and adivce will help me alot on down the road, as I MUST stay informed...I'll be back when I'm feeling stronger again..Take care to all in OW and Infid. forums!!

[noforgiveness]

I understand your frustrations and your rage. I can't and won't blame you for that. I would feel the same way if i was in your situation. I'm sure i would be reacting a little differently than you if i found out the man i love was in love with another woman. Not sure i could be so forgiving and understanding like you. I give you a lot of credit.

 

.

 

You are in her situation but worse. Your man goes home to another woman HIS WIFE every night. Your man is in love with and sleeping with someone else.

 

You at least sound very caring and compassionate and know the pain you are causing. I do give you credit for that.

[stillhere]

You are in her situation but worse. Your man goes home to another woman HIS WIFE every night. Your man is in love with and sleeping with someone else.

 

You at least sound very caring and compassionate and know the pain you are causing. I do give you credit for that.

 

Thank you, just because i'm doing something really really stupid, doesn't mean that i'm a heartless b*tch. I made a huge mistake and got myself in way over my head.

 

I have never set out to hurt anyone intentionally, and i realize i would hurt so many people if we are caught.

 

Yes, i know he goes home to her every night, and it kills me to know that. I know that he is not "in love" with her, but he does love her and cares for her. Although his heart is with me, it hurts to know that i can't have the complete package. Someday i will break free, but for right now, i can't.

 

 

OOD, i'm so sorry that all this has dug up bad memories and has made you more cautious. That is no way to live. I can't blame you for being suspicious of everyone, as i know i would be. You should not have to be looking over your shoulder at every turn. I wish you luck and the happiness you so deserve.

[lighthouse]

OoD -

I am not sure if I am understanding correctly and if I am not please forgive me. First, your H says he never spent any $ on his OW yet you are missing approximately half a million dollars? Didn't you just say he bought the main OW a condo? I am confused.

 

Also, putting aside that your H has cheated on you and possibly stolen $ from you and your family to give to his OW I can't believe the way that he treats your mother!! You have to hide giving her money and he tells you that "you are going to end up just like her."

 

Did I read this correctly? Is that really how he treats you and your mother? Have you told the MC about this?

 

I really hope that I got two people's stories confused because if I didn't I really don't get it. I think you are a great person OoD and you are so understanding and so calm but, maybe you are to understanding and to calm? Please talk to your MC about the $$ and the way that he treats you and your mother.

 

lighthouse

[outofdarkness]

OoD -

I am not sure if I am understanding correctly and if I am not please forgive me. First, your H says he never spent any $ on his OW yet you are missing approximately half a million dollars? Didn't you just say he bought the main OW a condo? I am confused.

 

Also, putting aside that your H has cheated on you and possibly stolen $ from you and your family to give to his OW I can't believe the way that he treats your mother!! You have to hide giving her money and he tells you that "you are going to end up just like her."

 

Did I read this correctly? Is that really how he treats you and your mother? Have you told the MC about this?

 

I really hope that I got two people's stories confused because if I didn't I really don't get it. I think you are a great person OoD and you are so understanding and so calm but, maybe you are to understanding and to calm? Please talk to your MC about the $$ and the way that he treats you and your mother.

 

lighthouse

I am back after a long break..Our son was in the hospital for 10 days, so I've been busy with that...Yes, my H did buy his OW a condo, but I am not sure how he worked it out...Whether it was a no interest loan...etc..There is even the possibility that his Grandfather, who died around the time the affair began, left it to him. He did the exact same thing as my H did to his W...I will never know exactly where that money went, as tax records, etc., all look legit to me. He is in the financial industry, and there are all sorts of ways to hide money...Mabey he had some money that he set aside that was totally separate from our money...Short of hiring a PI, which I do not have the money to do right now, there is no way for me to know exactly what went on...He could have also used reward points/airline vouchers/companion pass and business travel to feed the A's...Re: My Mom..He has always resented having to help her, and this will never change. I hide the fact that I help her b/c it is one of the few things that still causes much strife and anger between us...I hope I've helped clear some of these things up. I am happy to be back and hope to start posting more now that our son is back home and doing well...Thanks for your concern...

[lyfelite]

Hi Ladies,

 

OOD & Stillhere -- I hear where you both cominging from. I'm the OW in my situation. He and I have been together for 4 years now. We celibrate anniversies and birthdays' holidays etc. As for his wife, I know he still loves her and I respect that. I also support it as I do not want him to leave her for me-- ever. He's left her twice in the last year, and both times I've maanaged to convince him to give it another try. My reasoning to him and in general is... I don't want him to do it for me, it has to be because its time and its what he wants really and truelly. And both times from what he has describe to me it hasn't been for anything other then a quabble and him looking for an exit. They have two children together.

 

I likes your original question, is it possible for the H to be in love with his W and his OW. Yes I believe its possible, and strangly enough I believe that its possible for everyone to eventually come to an agreement that works for all parties. Have I seen it yes. I'm not there yet but I know it happends-- its not just an urban legend. OOD I'm sure this is not something you want to hear as you are still very much so hurting. But I think its good that you've had open communication with the OW. I'm not sure where I'd begin if I ever had the opportunity to have a sit down chat with my MM wife.

 

I know why he does what he does, and I also know that he is a very good man despite it. He is like stillhere's MM, he and the wife met when they were teenagers got married at 18, and now its 18 years later and they are just two different people. He has never bad mouth her in anyway to me. I actually feel like she just a long distance friend to me. When I tell people this I know its sounds weird because she doesn't know me but there are times when he tells me she going through this or that with her family and I feel bad and tell him to suggest things to her. Along time ago I realized my advice through him no doubt makes him look like the most caring man on the planet.

 

Things between he and I have been deppend this year then any of the other past years. I know I'm not the first women he's cheated on her with. And 8 months after we met he slept with someone else and told me immediatly. And now says he has no desire to do it anymore and hasn't since then. At the time I didn't care as I wasn't invested into anything with him. In the begining I'd been with other people, that stopped about two years ago. He is far more honest with me about things then he is with her, and it is often the topic of our conversations when he feels angry toward her. I ask, " Well have you explained this to ____" And he either says no or is quiet.

 

As for the particulars, we met here in the US while he was on special assignment. We both work for the gov't in similar agencies so we get plenty of opportunity to see one another both here and abroad. And when we are a part, baiscally I get 4-5 days a week where we video confrence dinner and or breakfast. His kids go to boarding school, so on weekends he is usaually with them. I never was thought I was the type of girl to get involved with a married man, nor would any suspect such from me. But low and behold all the things you never thought you'd do you find yourself doing it.