In love with W AND OW?

[outofdarkness]

Thank you all so very much for you replies today. I have such a better understanding of the feelings involved in A's..I see what several posters were saying so clearly. I know that there is a different kind of love that a W and H share especially after being married for a number of years. It is a love that evolvs over time and one that becomes comfortable...mabey more of a companionship and yes, lots of history. I also believe that the passion that a couple feels in the beginning of the relationship, can be rekindled, but it takes patience and effort. Once kids, mortgage, aging parents, two careers, become part of the picture, it's very hard to make time for yourselves as a couple. You really have to plan well and MAKE this happen...It's all too easy to get lazy and put your relationship/marriage on the back burner, and I believe that many times, this is when A's begin. So..in a sense, I guess I do believe that A's do fill a void in the marriage...There are some cases, I believe, where the spouse that has A's is just selfish and likes to "eat cake" but I would like to think this is the exception rather than the rule...

 

I have learned so much over the past two years about just men in general. Having only been with one man my entire life, I really had no idea about how important certain aspects of a relationship are...and yes, this includes sex...There were so many times during our marriage when I just didn't feel that passion anymore, but that didn't mean that I no longer was in love with my H...It's so hard to stay constantly "in sync" I think when you are with the same person every day for the rest of your life.

 

This may sound wierd, but I really think that my H has a greater understanding of women and their feelings and needs now...Do I think this is attributed to the OWs entirely, no...but I think they are part of the picture and if you want your M to work you have to face what might be wrong in your M and what part YOU have played in it's demise...This has been hard for me because after you find out that your spouse has cheated, you feel that it's your "right" to blame your spouse for everything that has ever gone wrong in your life...This is not right, I have learned over the past two years...Both spouses play a part in the healing process and this includes examining YOUR faults and where there might be room for improvement...As I said there are ALWAYS exceptions to this rule, but is anyone perfect? To think that we are is unhealthy and unrealistic. One of the first things our MC told me is that I need to examine myself/thoughts/feelings/actions and see where MY faults lie...and what part I might have played in my H's A's...That was really hard, but once I worked through it, I became much better equiped to handle life with or without my H. I hope this all made sense...Thanks again for all of the feedback..I will be back on tomorrow..Blessings..

[stillhere]

Outofdarkness...........

 

All i can say is that you are an extremely strong woman and i envy you. I really do. I'd like to say that if i was with someone i loved and he cheated on me like your H, i would hope that i had the compassion and understanding that you do. I can pretty much say that i don't think i could do as you have done.

 

I wish you luck and healing. You seem to be very well on your way!!

 

(((Hugs)))

[GreenEyedLady]

OOD: You are a truly good and forgiving person...I can only hope to aspire to such grace under fire...I wish you much happiness on your road in life and in your M...

[Meaplus3]

I have been posting some on this forum for a couple of weeks or so and have appreicated the insight and advice so much...I thought that I would throw this out there. Do you all think that it is possible for the MM to be in love with the W and the OW at the same time? I have always pondered this question, even when I was alittle girl...I am NOT condoning A's, I just have always had a hard time with the concept that a person is only "allowed" to be in love with one person at a time, culturally speaking, I guess..I think I said in a post at one time that I can't think that my H had no feelings for the OW, as he kept telling me, because it was a long term affair, and it was sort of creepy to think that he could be with someone for this long and NOT have any feelings! I struggled with this because on one hand, it hurt so badly to think of him being in love with another Woman, but on the other hand, if he was telling me the truth and he did NOT have feeling for her at all, I would think of him as sort of sociopathic...There were many As inbetween the main OW, and I can deal with what he tells me about no feelings involved in THESE As because they were short lived, but the long term A, I think it would be bizarre if he did not have ANY feelings for her...Is it pretty standard that when caught, the H will tell the W that he had no feelings for her and that it was only about the sex? I have had some communication with her over the past couple of years since she sent me the letter, and she tells me the exact opposite. Although she did state emphaticaly that they never told each other that they loved each other and that he always said that he would never leave me...They BOTH said that they were not any good in committed relationships and that is one reason why it worked so well for so long...This woman was obviously very hurt when he stopped the A...I felt bad for her...Is this wierd? I know that she cried for days, as I did...I am just trying to get a better understanding of how the whole "feelings and OWs works"...Any insight would be helpful...Thanks

 

I do believe that a person is capable of loving 2 people at the same time. I have been in a "A" for many months now, mostly emotional. I told MM that I am in love with him. He has told me that he has many feelings for me, but if he were to reval them all it would make our situation worse, since we are both married and do not plan on leaving our spouse's. I am pretty sure this means he loves me too.

 

While it's very EASY to confuse lust with love, I believe that if you have been in a long term relationship with someone you can tell the difference.

 

AP.

[outofdarkness]

just a quick update...I've been thinking alot about everyone's replies and what my IC is saying...It's been really hard for me to admit to myself that my H had feelings for the OW that lasted 10 years. I wanted sooo badly to believe him when he told me over and over and over that it was just about the sex and any conversation/outings, etc..were just about him doing what he had to do to get the sex..I guess I heard what I wanted to hear...Any fool knows that you can't spend THIS amount of time with a person and not develope SOME sort of feelings for them..I just struggle so much every day with the thought because he saw me fall completely apart, he wanted to spare me the anguish and hurt of admitting his feelings. It's so much easier when you've been cheated on; in my opinion, to think that it WAS just about the sex. No W wants to hear those dreaded words; "I am in love with her, or yes, I do have feelings for her"..Even though towards the end, before D day, I was hearing things from my H like, I don't really know what love is and I do love you but no the same or not as intensely as you do, or I would not make divorce as hard as your Dad did on your Mom, I'm not an ass like he was...things like that...I couldn't and/or wouldn't entertain the thought that he might be thinking of leaving me for ANY reason...I had no idea about the cheating..I just knew that he hated being around me, or kids, or home, etc...I had been diagnosed with an extended/possibly life long illness within that same year and was very sick physically and it caused some depression too. I knew this was hard for him, but still could not understand how he could go off and leave our daughter and I alone; he traveled constantly supposedly for work, while I was so sick...Our only son was away at school and I was devestated. He had to go away to school due to the problems that I now realize were attributed to my H's abusive behavior towards him. Many times, I was not even aware of it. Amoung other things, he would take our son along on outings with the main OW and tell him not to tell Mommy...I guess he took as much as he could as long as he could until he just couldn't handle it anymore...Turns out he now says that going away was the best thing I ever did for him...I just didn't know...There is so much guilt there now...Even though my H is a different person now after so much in and out patient therapy, it's still hard not to get angry and resentful...Some days are hard...

 

Just wanted to say thanks again for the feedback...Any more is still appreciated! Blessings!

[whichwayisup]

he would take our son along on outings with the main OW and tell him not to tell Mommy...I guess he took as much as he could as long as he could until he just couldn't handle it anymore

 

Because of this, it just shows how your husband was NOT thinking at all. Seems he was so caught up in himself, everybody else around him didn't count.

 

I am sorry that he did that you to all, though I am glad to hear he's in therapy.

 

Don't deny yourself the anger! Just don't let it take over...Remember now he isn't the person he used to be, with the help of therapy and understanding WHY he acted that way.

 

Would it have been easier if it had just been about sex? Using another woman for that? I know finding out he had feelings for her hurts too, but which is the worse of the two evils?

[outofdarkness]

Because of this, it just shows how your husband was NOT thinking at all. Seems he was so caught up in himself, everybody else around him didn't count.

 

I am sorry that he did that you to all, though I am glad to hear he's in therapy.

 

Don't deny yourself the anger! Just don't let it take over...Remember now he isn't the person he used to be, with the help of therapy and understanding WHY he acted that way.

 

Would it have been easier if it had just been about sex? Using another woman for that? I know finding out he had feelings for her hurts too, but which is the worse of the two evils?

that has been a real demon for me...On one hand, I couldn't stand the thought of him using women like that and i felt for the OWs, especially the main one, but on the other hand, I hated the thought that he might be in love with or have feelings for her/them...It's a double edged sword...mabey not for some w's, but for me, it has been really hard b/c I have always thought of myself as very sensitive to other's feelings, no matter what they have done...Also, it's been very hard to distiguish between what was the truth and what wasn't...They were both telling me conflicting things, and I wanted to believe my H, but knew that the main OW was a sincere and kind person...She was respectful towards me when we spoke and I sensed that she was being totally honest with me...This could have been a show, but I usually have a pretty good sense of when people are sincere or not...She never contacted myself or my children again, and has stayed away from us...She even took up for me with one of the OW's that was menacing and rude...She asked her to back off and leave us alone. I knew because she copied me on e mails that they exchanged after SHE found out that she too, had been cheated on...Hope this has made my feelings alittle more clear. It can get pretty confusing, and I change my moods/feelings/thoughts every day...

[outofdarkness]

I have a question for the OW's who have been so helpful to me...Do you all think that my H cheats when he travels on business? I know that is such a broad question, so let me give some background info...He travels on average 2 to 3 days per week, but some weeks, he's gone M thru Fri...like this weel. It is a conference for leaders in his field...There is a set schedule with meetings, lunches, dinners out, alcohol, ect...and yes, his field does include women...I do know that he does not have a separate credit card for busines expenses. He gives me his expense reimb. check to dep. and pay online and now shows me the spreadsheet that he submit sot his co...He also uses the same phone for personal and business. No pager, but he does have blackberrry that is phone capable, but he insists that he did not want to phone and cannot not use it as one. He also has a cell that is walkie talkie capable but tells me that he does not use that either. Do you all think he is telling me the truth and do these walkie talkie calls show up on the cell bill? The whole credit card issue really has bothered me since finding all of this out two years ago because it seems that it'd be so easy to hide things. For instance, around a month and a half ago, he called me from a major city where he was on business and told me that he was headed out to dinner with to male coworkers...I asked names, and he quickly came up with two, but I was instantly suspicious because he had just come home for one night inbetween trips in a terrible mood, as we had been bickering. I guess he forgot to delete his calls because I checked and found two calls within one miniute from one another at exactly the time that he had called me to report that he was on his way out with the male coworkers. He had called this number at 6 pm and the return call was at 6:01...This would not have shown up on the cell bill as they do not show numbers of incoming, only the time...I just happened to check his cell the one night inbetween trips...When he called me from the next destination, I confronted him and he lied. When I told him emphatically that I knew that he had dinner and drinks with this woman...She is a 20 something, just promoted from part time and he told me attractive. He finally confessed because I was so persistant and he knew that I knew the truth. I had called the # on the cell and found it to be the personal cell of this woman and knew that she worked for his co...I think that it crosses the line to have dinnerand drinks as opposed to lunch or having dinner brough in if there is pressing business that cannot be finished by end of day, with a subordinate and single woman. I think it leaves it too open ended for sexual harrassment and/or temptation...I debated for a long time, talked with friends and my IC and we all agreed that I should call this girl and tell her that I thought that this crossed the line and was inappropriate. I also told her; on voice mail, that I had also discussed it w/ my H...and I had...He insisted that it was purely business and that sort of thing goes on all of the time...Does it you all? IS this crossing the line? I would not have had a problem if he had not lied to me about it and also if another coworker had gone along or dinner brought in, but dinner at a quiet intimate restaraunt with drinks???What do you all think? Is he lieing to me? Is he having another A? It's been weighing heavily on me since it came up...She travels much as he does and they do run into each other some. I know her home office is in the same city where he is at this conf. this week. Should I be worried? Have any of you OW's been in this sort of situation? Would she have felt pressured to have dinner with him if asked due to the fact that he is her superior? Also, how often do workplace A's go on? Do the H's frequently tell these OWs that they are NOT Married? I just would love some advice/insight...Thanks

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

tOn one hand, I couldn't stand the thought of him using women like that and i felt for the OWs, especially the main one, but on the other hand, I hated the thought that he might be in love with or have feelings for her/them...It's a double edged sword....

 

OOD,

 

I just looove your posts.

You sound so sensible and intelligent. And I can resonate with your thoughts and feelings so well. I could have been your cyber-sister!

 

Anyway, I qouted the above because you do seem pained by this conflict. Let me tell you something (that may surprise you!): when I was developing feelings for another MM, I was also constantly fighting with myself on a similar dilemma. It is this: On the one hand, I want my MM to love his W deeply and madly, and to 'give in' and work on whatever problems they are having. I would hope and pray that he would not divorce her. And whenever I hear that he's fighting with his W, or that his W left their house again, I'd be heartbroken. (And I still don't know why I'd feel this way.) But, on the other hand, I do want him to be my H! I was so overwhelmed with anger toward MYSELF! It was not fun to be in that state, I'll tell you!

 

So, the next time, you want to beat yourself up because you H actually felt something for another woman, think of it way: would you have rather had a sociopath, a selfish egomaniac, a narcissist, as your H?? He is human, and he will have feelings. However, rest assured, feelings of passionate love is fleeting and not 'real' in the sense that if he found his OW drowning in a lake but you were standing next to him - hah! - he wouldn't even look her way!! GUARANTEED! She means nothing to him when she is OUT OF CONTEXT! Trust me on this.

 

I am no longer an OW because I understand how little the OW actually mean to a MM. (Not that my MM ever treated me badly, but I'd understand if he chose to ignore me.)

[lover's rock]

I love your posts too OOD. They take me back to my true feelings consistently. They even hard to read sometimes. I'm in a bitter mood right now so I'm going to say something borderline hilarity: Of course he's cheating but what can you do about it? You'll drive yourself crazy searching every little bill and every little word written or conversation, even. I've driven myself crazy to the point that I am exhausted. Just say "okay dear" with a smile and one day while he's out of town, pack your bags and never look back. Don't tell him where you're going either. I guarantee you he'll crap his pants when he comes home to an empty house.

 

MM never think of the consequences...of losing their families. And honestly sometimes, I think that's what they deserve...to lose the families they don't want. Then they can have pity parties in hell where they belong. How you create a family and then cast it aside for the single life, I'll never know. But OOD, you deserve so much better. There are so many single men without families who WISH they had kids and a wife to look after. My H had the audacity to tell me one time that no one is going to want me with three kids in tow. WRONG! I've been hit on more times this year than I ever have been in my life. So I know that if he doesn't get his crap together, I'll be happy without him. And you will too.

[outofdarkness]

I love your posts too OOD. They take me back to my true feelings consistently. They even hard to read sometimes. I'm in a bitter mood right now so I'm going to say something borderline hilarity: Of course he's cheating but what can you do about it? You'll drive yourself crazy searching every little bill and every little word written or conversation, even. I've driven myself crazy to the point that I am exhausted. Just say "okay dear" with a smile and one day while he's out of town, pack your bags and never look back. Don't tell him where you're going either. I guarantee you he'll crap his pants when he comes home to an empty house.

 

MM never think of the consequences...of losing their families. And honestly sometimes, I think that's what they deserve...to lose the families they don't want. Then they can have pity parties in hell where they belong. How you create a family and then cast it aside for the single life, I'll never know. But OOD, you deserve so much better. There are so many single men without families who WISH they had kids and a wife to look after. My H had the audacity to tell me one time that no one is going to want me with three kids in tow. WRONG! I've been hit on more times this year than I ever have been in my life. So I know that if he doesn't get his crap together, I'll be happy without him. And you will too.

yes, I do find myself exhausted many times, one of them being tonight...Thanks for the support and encouragement...It really has helped me...Trust is such a hard thing to regain/earn back...I know that he is trying and has shown me in many ways, including in and out patient trmt that he is sincere in his efforts...I love him deeply and try to have faith that things will work out, but I am also preparing for the worst. This means taking steps to work on myself so that I am well prepared and at peace with myself should I find out the worst and need to strike out on my own...I will NOT allow myself to be duped again...and I will NOT stay in the dark any longer; hence, outofdarkness...I do have to be reminded by my IC and supportive family and friends, and these forums, how far I've come in two years time...It's hard to see yourself, but other's seem to see it clearly, and it's very encouraging and heartwarming...I CAN take care of myself and our children if need be...Now THAT really is incredible...considering where I was two years ago...Totally dependent, no confindence, trapped and feeling totally put down...

I can't stop him from cheating...As he's told me many times, if he really wants to cheat, he will find a way..and he's right...I am powerless over his actions, but I am not powerless over mine.

The only really concrete way to find out if cheating is going on while he travels is to hire a pi and I just don't want to go to the expense and heatache..So I guess I'll just keep on working on myself and try to have faith that he is indeed trying himself...I feel good about things when he is with us at home, but when he travels, I am very paranoid and get depressed...I am also a recovering alcoholic and know that he drinks when he goes on these trips...It bothers me b/c I know that it lowers his inhibitions and makes him more vulnerable to his addiction...I wish that he would find another job and stay home with us. Our kids will only be with us for a few more years, and he is missing so much. I also wonder how lonely it will be for me when they ARE gone and he is still traveling just as much or more then he is now. I miss him terribly and still hold out hope that he will find another job and spend more time at home. I know this is not very realistic b/c this is the one area in his life where he can still hold on to his addiction, and it's going to be very hard if not impossible to give this up. It took me two years to get him to get a separate credit card for business..probrably another 2 to get him to get a company paid cell phone, don't know how long to get him to stop traveling so much. It IS exhausting. Somedays, I just go to work, pick up the kids and fall asleep. Fortunately they are now old enough to handle things on occasion if I do need some extra r and r or just plain sleep, but I still feel badly about it.

 

Do any OW's have any feedback on the whole cell phone, walkie talkie, dinner with single, attractive coworker thing? Is it pretty common? How often DO workplace A's happen? Dont' they worry about losing their jobs or sexual harassment? What do you all think about this whole dinner thing that happened a month or so ago? Should I believe him that it was just a dinner with a coworker to discuss upcoming business? Why would he lie to me if it was that innocent...don't answer that..I know...it was NOT innocent, was it? Thanks again for all of the feedback...Blessings.

[GreenEyedLady]

I have a question for the OW's who have been so helpful to me...Do you all think that my H cheats when he travels on business? I know that is such a broad question, so let me give some background info...He travels on average 2 to 3 days per week, but some weeks, he's gone M thru Fri...like this weel. It is a conference for leaders in his field...There is a set schedule with meetings, lunches, dinners out, alcohol, ect...and yes, his field does include women...I do know that he does not have a separate credit card for busines expenses. He gives me his expense reimb. check to dep. and pay online and now shows me the spreadsheet that he submit sot his co...He also uses the same phone for personal and business. No pager, but he does have blackberrry that is phone capable, but he insists that he did not want to phone and cannot not use it as one. He also has a cell that is walkie talkie capable but tells me that he does not use that either. Do you all think he is telling me the truth and do these walkie talkie calls show up on the cell bill? The whole credit card issue really has bothered me since finding all of this out two years ago because it seems that it'd be so easy to hide things. For instance, around a month and a half ago, he called me from a major city where he was on business and told me that he was headed out to dinner with to male coworkers...I asked names, and he quickly came up with two, but I was instantly suspicious because he had just come home for one night inbetween trips in a terrible mood, as we had been bickering. I guess he forgot to delete his calls because I checked and found two calls within one miniute from one another at exactly the time that he had called me to report that he was on his way out with the male coworkers. He had called this number at 6 pm and the return call was at 6:01...This would not have shown up on the cell bill as they do not show numbers of incoming, only the time...I just happened to check his cell the one night inbetween trips...When he called me from the next destination, I confronted him and he lied. When I told him emphatically that I knew that he had dinner and drinks with this woman...She is a 20 something, just promoted from part time and he told me attractive. He finally confessed because I was so persistant and he knew that I knew the truth. I had called the # on the cell and found it to be the personal cell of this woman and knew that she worked for his co...I think that it crosses the line to have dinnerand drinks as opposed to lunch or having dinner brough in if there is pressing business that cannot be finished by end of day, with a subordinate and single woman. I think it leaves it too open ended for sexual harrassment and/or temptation...I debated for a long time, talked with friends and my IC and we all agreed that I should call this girl and tell her that I thought that this crossed the line and was inappropriate. I also told her; on voice mail, that I had also discussed it w/ my H...and I had...He insisted that it was purely business and that sort of thing goes on all of the time...Does it you all? IS this crossing the line? I would not have had a problem if he had not lied to me about it and also if another coworker had gone along or dinner brought in, but dinner at a quiet intimate restaraunt with drinks???What do you all think? Is he lieing to me? Is he having another A? It's been weighing heavily on me since it came up...She travels much as he does and they do run into each other some. I know her home office is in the same city where he is at this conf. this week. Should I be worried? Have any of you OW's been in this sort of situation? Would she have felt pressured to have dinner with him if asked due to the fact that he is her superior? Also, how often do workplace A's go on? Do the H's frequently tell these OWs that they are NOT Married? I just would love some advice/insight...Thanks

 

OutOfDarkness: I don't know what to tell you...I don't know him the way you do...it is supspicious given his past behavior, but people can change...

 

She could have felt pressured to join him for drinks because he is her superior or she could see him as her mentor...I had a mentor who was married and his W called me and accused us of having an affair after they separated...it wasn't like that at all and I told her so...he was just a colleague who had been in the field longer and whom I learned so much from...(although ended ugly and we are no longer friends)

 

Ok, now my current situation...He DID NOT tell me he was married, he said that he was divorced (which he was, but to wife #1)...everything on the outside said that he wanted to have a relationship with me...he has a crazy work schedule, lives an hour away and we both have kids so I didn't see him all the time, but fairly regularly considering visitation schedules...he always worked Holidays and overtime so I NEVER guessed he was M until I found out from someone who worked in the same organization and wanted to date me, but didn't personally know him...this was a year and three months after I met him...

 

Do MM lie about their marital status: YES SOME do...it happened before this one and it was short-lived six weeks before I found out, the sooner the better though...what is so amazing was that I met him at his work with all his coworkers around and no one said a word to enlighten me...

 

SOME don't: I was visiting NYC for the first time 2 years ago and in an Irish pub this attractive man comes up to me and orders 3 rounds of drinks for me and my 4 friends...one friend points out to me that he was wearing a ring...I bring that to his attention and you know what he said?! "Don't worry, I'm not the kind of man who thinks that I'll spend the rest of my life with one woman." WTF?! And like I'm going to jump up and down and say "oh goody?" My revenge was leaving him with a hell of a drink bill...

 

So no one can really tell you if he is or he isn't...you are probably in a better position to say if he is, or he isn't...I want to say give him the benefit of the doubt but you've been through so much...just talk to him and see if you two can make sense of it...my prayers are with you, you are such a compassionate, humble, beautiful lady and you deserve to be happy in this life...GEL

[GreenEyedLady]

I just saw your most recent post...I don't know about the cell phone and walkie-talkie thing...but workplace A's are common...I don't think alot of men think about sexual harrassment as much as they should and especially if they feel that their interest is mutual...hope that helps, but probably doesn't...sorry...

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

take care of myself and our children if need be...Now THAT really is incredible...considering where I was two years ago...Totally dependent, no confindence, trapped and feeling totally put down...

I can't stop him from cheating...As he's told me many times, if he really wants to cheat, he will find a way..and he's right...I am powerless over his actions, but I am not powerless over mine.

 

OOD,

 

Yes, it is critical that you develop independence. You have to be able to do everything without your H because there may come a time when you have to do this!!

 

You cannot stop him if he wants to continue having his way with women. You can only stop yourself from taking this crap from him.... OR, you can make it a non-issue, and treat him as you'd treat a meal ticket.

 

I wish that he would find another job and stay home with us. Our kids will only be with us for a few more years, and he is missing so much. I also wonder how lonely it will be for me when they ARE gone and he is still traveling just as much or more then he is now. I miss him terribly and still hold out hope that he will find another job and spend more time at home.

 

Be careful of what you wish for. Honestly, I doubt that he would be a very pleasant person to live with full-time! He needs to travel (and sow his wild oats) in order to be the husband he is!

 

One thing I've learned from IC is that people do not change. You can change the way you view your H, but you cannot change him. Quit hoping for change! The thing you need to decide is this: can YOU accept his wayward ways? Can you accept him lying to you about who he's with?

 

Do any OW's have any feedback on the whole cell phone, walkie talkie, dinner with single, attractive coworker thing? Is it pretty common? How often DO workplace A's happen? Dont' they worry about losing their jobs or sexual harassment? What do you all think about this whole dinner thing that happened a month or so ago? Should I believe him that it was just a dinner with a coworker to discuss upcoming business? Why would he lie to me if it was that innocent...don't answer that..I know...it was NOT innocent, was it? Thanks again for all of the feedback...Blessings.

 

No, I don't know anything aobut affairs in office because I don't work in the office. But having been attracted and tempted to cheat with a man who is married (while being married myself), I'd say that the occurance is higher than you'd want to believe. It is so easy to get together with someone....

[outofdarkness]

OOD,

 

Yes, it is critical that you develop independence. You have to be able to do everything without your H because there may come a time when you have to do this!!

 

You cannot stop him if he wants to continue having his way with women. You can only stop yourself from taking this crap from him.... OR, you can make it a non-issue, and treat him as you'd treat a meal ticket.

 

 

 

Be careful of what you wish for. Honestly, I doubt that he would be a very pleasant person to live with full-time! He needs to travel (and sow his wild oats) in order to be the husband he is!

 

One thing I've learned from IC is that people do not change. You can change the way you view your H, but you cannot change him. Quit hoping for change! The thing you need to decide is this: can YOU accept his wayward ways? Can you accept him lying to you about who he's with?

 

 

 

No, I don't know anything aobut affairs in office because I don't work in the office. But having been attracted and tempted to cheat with a man who is married (while being married myself), I'd say that the occurance is higher than you'd want to believe. It is so easy to get together with someone....

thanks so much for the feedback...I can see some very valid points and things that I just didn't want to see. Thanks to everyone for helping me through what has been a tough week...It's not easy rasing two teen, working, etc...H was gone all week and I am exhausted and grumpy by the end of the week, leaving me vulnerable to paranoia, pity parties and that "stinking thinking"! Being a part of these forums is really helping me cope...

Blessings!

[stillhere]

OOD, i can't answer about the walkie talkie calls. I don't know of anyone in this area who has this feature or uses it if they do.

 

I can tell you that workplace A's are common. That is where i met my MM. If you work with someone, you get to know them. You learn their personalities, their likes and dislikes, their frustrations, everything you would learn with a friend. My MM approached me, since i never would have had the courage to approach him. He is the one everyone believes that would never ever stray. Not in a million years. And because of this, we have been lucky. If anyone would pay the slightest attention to the way we look at each other or act, they would know. In fact, my boss has told him that he thinks that i have a crush on my MM!!! If only he really knew.

 

I do think it is possible that he is cheating again. The phone call bit, with an outgoing and then an immediate incoming call is what i do with my MM when i don't know where he is or who is around him. I call him and hang up. Although, that shouldn't come up on the bill because there was never a connection when i called. It's possible they had a bad connection and got disconnected. I don't know. But if it was an innocent meal, he should have never lied to you about who he was with.

 

I did have the misfortune of having a manager with a psychotic W. I taught him how to text message, and now in hindsight, i should have never done that. He used to text me all the time after that, and of course i answered him back because he was my boss, and i had to stay on friendly terms. I should have just ignored them. I was with my MM at this time too. Well, she got the bill, and my number was all over it since he didn't have a plan for text messaging.

 

She came to my house, screaming at me in front of my child, saying she was going to bring a gun with. That she wasn't going to confront me, just go blow her head off. On and on and on. There was nothing, and i mean nothing going on with me and him. I believe he possibly wanted there to be more, but not me. To this day, she believes i slept with him, and i can't convince her otherwise. He made me sick. I cringe when i see him, but thankfully, he no longer works for my company.

 

So i guess it's possible that he's cheating, but then again, he may not be. With his past, i would be wary, but if he's truelly trying, then give him that chance.

[whichwayisup]

You have to decide if you want to trust him or not. Noone can predict if he's cheating again. I would hope after everything he's put you through already, that he WOULD NOT cheat on you again!

 

I say, trust him because of what he's done to earn it. If he is acting odd, distant or otherwise, watch him closely, look for the signs. I know this is hard on you and being alone with the 'teens' is even harder!

 

Make special time for him when he's home and let him know how much you love him. Try not to think the worst of him, and if you feel more and more unsure, tell him you're having a rough time and that he has to reach out to you more.

[outofdarkness]

Just wanted to touch base..It's been a rough week..Just family stuff, and my H travels constantly..I was wondering if it means anything if your H has lost 45lbs, is dressing better and gets frequent haircuts? Does this possibly mean that he is cheating again? He did get a poor score on his company's health screening and says that this is why he made the changes, but I am so suspicious because of his past, that I am not inclined to believe him. Also, as OW's can anyone tell me if it's at all possible that he only carried on a phone/e mail affair with one of his OW's..This W was very angry when he ended the A and was very rude and demeaning to me; we spoke by phone once and she e mailed me some in the beginning after finding out...One of the things that he told me is that I would NEVER understand why he had such a hard time cutting contact with her...When I asked him what he meant, he just said that she would go on and on and on...He insists that he has never met the woman, just phone sex, etc..The other OW's did have relationships with him, both physical and emotional..So why is he so protective and evasive about this particular one. Could she be threatening to come to me and reveal everything that he had told her, you know the usual, my W is crazy, doesn't give me sex, ect, or does he really want to be with her and can't cut contact. He never wrote a NC letter, he just told me that he had cut contact..I believed him...I believed everything he told me...I have only been with him and really fall under his spell easily..Even after I found maps and hotel reservations every week going to the same general location that she lives in...He said it was simply that he had wrapped up the accounts that he was working on when I asked him why he stopped traveling to this area...I know as I write this that I am so naive and ignorant and in denial regarding his cheating ways, but I want to believe him so badly. We are in MC and me in IC, so I would be devastated to find out more details regarding past affairs, or new one...He also refused to get a credit card that is just for business; right now, he just has his personal card and uses it for both business and personal..In addition, he will not change his cell phone #..He says it's too big of a pain to tell all of his coworkers that he has a new number...This is the same # that he has had for many years, and all of his OW's know the number...The same with his direct work line..He just doesn't seem to be totaly ready to give his old ways up. Travel is always a problem. He lets down his guard, drinks and does much entertaining...I worry so much when he is out of town, but I know that if he really wants to cheat, he will find a way...

 

I might also add we had a very sizable amt of $ in the bank not more then 2 to 3 years ago..it's almost gone...and I am embarrased to say that I trusted him with the finaces..He is in this industry and would not even consider paying someone else to do this...I tend to think that it's just the rush of feeling like there are still W out there who will contact him at some point...Input is so appreciated..Blessings to all.

[Chapter2]

OOD, you have showered this man with grace. You seem like such a kind and gentle woman and it kills me to say this to you so please take it as only one person's opinion.

 

To me, it does seem like all the clues you have point to him continuing to cheat. I do not get the sense that he is living honestly and openly with you. It sounds like he is continuing to lie or at least tell half truths (if there is such a thing). I want to say you don't have a thing to worry about but your last post is riddled with huge red flags.

 

Please take care of yourself. Be smart. Try to get a handle on the state of your finances and possibly see an attorney simply to arm yourself with facts. I'm not saying to give up on your marriage, I just think it would be a good idea to be savvy about what you could possibly be up against and what your options are.

 

You are worth so much more than what he appears to be giving you. Most men would lay their life down for a woman with your heart! Do you have a suport system of friends or family? Is there anyone that can give you good sound advice and walk through this with you? I know you don't want to live in suspision. But you can't make him be a truthful and honest husband, that desire can only come from him.

 

I wish you every good thing and again, I don't know him and I know you long to believe in him so please disregard my comments if you find them to be off base. The last thing I want to do is pile more hurt on you.

[outofdarkness]

OOD, you have showered this man with grace. You seem like such a kind and gentle woman and it kills me to say this to you so please take it as only one person's opinion. Thank you so much for the kind and thoughtful compliments..and I don't ever mind hearing anyone's individual comments.

 

To me, it does seem like all the clues you have point to him continuing to cheat. I do not get the sense that he is living honestly and openly with you. It sounds like he is continuing to lie or at least tell half truths (if there is such a thing). I want to say you don't have a thing to worry about but your last post is riddled with huge red flags. I agree that it would seem that he is not being totally honest with me, and yes, he has a history of mixing the truth with honesty. Part of what I am currently working on is learing to stay out of denial and heed the warning signs...This includes reaching out to people so that I can be told that something is definately not right. I would be interested to know if you or anyone else has an opinion specifically on this OW that I mentioned in my post...What exactly do you all think it means that he is so protective of her, and is it possible that it was just a phone sex thing and that he has never actually met her in person..I know, I know, it seems like such a common sense question, but he can be so convincing and I really get sucked in easily. Yes, I have seen an attorney..I filed for divorce a year ago and he had a complete breakdown..We started MC and he seemed so sincere and remorseful. He even went to in patient treatment for what they MC had diagnosed as a sex addiction and began to attend regular meetings as well as church with myself and the kids. He rarely does these things anymore, and I have managed to do my deal and rationalize these flags away. It's so typical of me, I really want to see the good in people, especially those that I love...This is not always a bad thing, but it has put me in some precarious situations in my lifetime. So, yes, I have spoken with an attorney, but not since I filed an order of reconciliation and we reconciled. We were also separated twice since finding all of this out 2 years ago. I have thought so many times about hiring a PI, but just can't bring myself to spend the money and also, I am afraid of what they might find...I had such a hard time when all of this came out, I am so afraid of falling apart again. Our kids have just now settled down and experiencing some happiness in their lives. I hate to ruin it for them now. They just have a few more years at home, and then they are gone...I hate to make them miserable again. At least when he is home and not traveling on business, he is pleasant most of the time and spends quality time with them. He has even taken me out on occasion...A rarity over the years. I suppose it would be a good idea to get back in touch with my attorney and update him just to get his take on the situation now. Thanks for the advice that noone else had the nerve to say to me...

 

Please take care of yourself. Be smart. Try to get a handle on the state of your finances and possibly see an attorney simply to arm yourself with facts. I'm not saying to give up on your marriage, I just think it would be a good idea to be savvy about what you could possibly be up against and what your options are.

 

You are worth so much more than what he appears to be giving you. Most men would lay their life down for a woman with your heart! Do you have a suport system of friends or family? Is there anyone that can give you good sound advice and walk through this with you? I know you don't want to live in suspision. But you can't make him be a truthful and honest husband, that desire can only come from him. Yes, I do have a small circle of trusted friends and my family is all here but one sister...We have all been through much as a family too. My parent's got divorced after 40 years of marriage when we all found out that my Dad was not only an irresponsible jerk, but also a transvestite...That's a different forum, I know, but a piece of the puzzle with my H and I too. He has always felt very angry and resentful about the fact that we have helped my Mom both financially and in other ways. I have to sneak around to help her. Today, I took her to the free clinic that she goes to because she felt very weak..Turns out, she has not had enough money to buy food...She works two jobs and is 70 years old and is exhausted. She also has heart problems and I am worried about her. Whenever, in the past, I helped her my H got very angry...So I try to hide it, but had even gotten to the point of not helping or calling her b/c I was so afraid of his reaction based on his past behavior regarding this one issue.

I wish you every good thing and again, I don't know him and I know you long to believe in him so please disregard my comments if you find them to be off base. The last thing I want to do is pile more hurt on you.

no, your commenst did not pile more hurt on me...I am so happy that I have supportive and kind friends and e mail buddies to tell it to me like it is so that I can make informed decisions with a clear head. I appreciate all of your supportive and encouraging words...What are your thoughts about the $? Is that the reason you think I should call my attorney? He still, to this day insists that he never spend a penny on any of his A's..If this is true, then the only thing that I can figure is that he used reward points/frequent flyer awards to pay for his cheating. I can't see how it's possible to have A's for over 10 years and not spend any money on them...Does anyone know if this has ever happened? I know, dumb question again...but mabey there are some sneaky ways that I don't know about. I need to be informed, so any input would be appreciated. I am worried that he is just stringing me along until the kids are gone and then I will get dumped. He used to always tell me that If I left, I would end up just like my Mom...Maybe he's planning for me to end up like my Mom. I do work, but most of my $ goes towards school tuition and extras for the kids, although he does make alot of money...He is constantly after me about money...It never ends. I now handle all of our accounts and have to check on the accounts that he has at work. I have to check his airline rewards stmts and credit card and phone bill..It's exhausting, and it's hard to tell exactly what he's up to since the phone and credit card are used for business AND personal...Thanks again for the kind words...I REALLY appreciate it!!!

[stillhere]

From an OW, my MM spends money on me, and lots of it. He supports me financially in a big way. I get a weekly allowance and all, plus he pays some of my bills and any extra expenses that may come up.

 

He does all that and doesn't draw a dime from his accounts because she handles all that. I know how he does it, but i'm not sure you're H would have the immediate funds to do so.

 

This is what my MM does, i'm not saying your H does the same. I'm just telling you how things are in my situation, and that he does spend money on me. Depends on how he feels about the OW. Everyone is different.

 

If i were you, i would contact a lawyer. It sounds like he is up to no good.

[outofdarkness]

From an OW, my MM spends money on me, and lots of it. He supports me financially in a big way. I get a weekly allowance and all, plus he pays some of my bills and any extra expenses that may come up.

 

He does all that and doesn't draw a dime from his accounts because she handles all that. I know how he does it, but i'm not sure you're H would have the immediate funds to do so.

 

This is what my MM does, i'm not saying your H does the same. I'm just telling you how things are in my situation, and that he does spend money on me. Depends on how he feels about the OW. Everyone is different.

 

If i were you, i would contact a lawyer. It sounds like he is up to no good.

ok...so how does you MM do it?? I'm curious to know, and yes, I would be very inclined to think that funds are hidden away somewhere...

[stillhere]

My MM works 2 jobs, and he gets paid in cash sometimes. Sometimes they are very large amounts. He puts that away. A lot of that goes to me, and she doesn't know it ever existed.

 

That's why i said that it may be possible that your H may not have the funds.

 

Did you ever ask where all that money went from your accounts? I would start checking to see if he withdrew it and opened a new account in his name only. Sounds pretty suspicious.

[outofdarkness]

yes, I did ask many times and he always blamed myself and the kids. He gave up a very high paying position to join a start up company with the idea that it would go public and he would get another large payout. He's always looking for that pie in the sky..Anywho, his salary went down substantially, and my business was not mature enough to make up the difference, so he tells me that we spent it to live on...It was over $500k in the bank and it's gone over the past five years...I can believe that some did go for living expenses due to our high standard of living at that time, and the fact that just as my business began to really take off, I got sick and had to quit, but I just can't buy into the fact that the entire amount was spent on just us. Given his high flying lifestyle and the multiple A's, at least SOME of it had to have gone to the OW's...I don't know about any accounts in just his name. As far as I knew, everything was joint except for an account that was just in my name in which he dep. a certain amt. every month...He was/is in the financial industry, and it would have been very easy for him to hide things...I totally trusted that he was being responsible with our $ and never doubted for a second that he was living a completely honest and respectful life. It does seem to reason that if he would lie about the A's, other areas of his life would be lies as well...I don't really know what went on during those years...I trusted that he was taking care of that area of our lives...I had two babies and was trying to build a business of my own..I really don't even know at this point short of hiring a forensic accountant, how to find out what happened to the $...It's gone, I can't bring it back and I am trying in vain to protect myself and our kids..Thanks for the feedback...If you think of anything else, let me know...

[crazy_grl]

outofdarkness, you've got to be one of the the sweetest and most understanding people in the world. I'm incredibly impressed.

 

I know you're trying to trust your husband, and I hope what I have to say doesn't bring you more stress or pain, but I think maybe you're too understanding for your own good. You're describing a lot of warning flags, and while I can't say that he is still cheating and lying, and that he spent your savings on OW, I think the odds of it are really high. Even if he didn't spend a large portion of your money on OWs, he had to have at least bought them a meal or a drink at some point.

 

I think you really need to be steeling yourself for the possibility of finding out a lot worse things about your husband than you already have. I think it's commendable that you're willing to not explore the things he's done to the full extent for the sake of sparing your children from having to see you suffer. But once you're strong enough to handle it, I think you should, because you deserve to have a husband that doesn't cheat an lie. A lot of guys would be grateful to have a woman like you.

 

As for the dinner with the 20 something year old woman, I think it was inappropriate both because it can been seen as sexual harassment and because of his history. IMO, he should be taking great pains to prove to you that he hasn't returned to his old ways. Having dinner with a woman and lying about it is not being fair to you.

 

Even if you're not prepared to do anything yet, definitely call your lawyer.

 

Again, I hope I didn't upset you, because I know you don't need more to worry about. I'm just trying to be honest, and sometimes I can be too blunt.