Affair question

[catgirl1927]

Just to be clear (I reread what I posted and it sounds bad) I don't mean that people who are paralyzed should have died. I mean that if my SO went elsewhere for sex because I disgust him, I would feel like I would rather die. Sorry, that sounded awful and insensitive and wasn't at all what I meant. But I would definitely rather be dead than be in a marriage where my SO was having sex elsewhere. It's not a marriage and it's the ultimate humiliation.

 

Anyone can justify anything. It doesn't make it right.

[catgirl1927]

You're just being a drama queen. You just need to accept the fact that an hubby who isn't getting love and sex and home can and probably will find it elsewhere. The sooner you come to grips with that harsh reality, the wiser you'll be.

 

So take your moral high ground elsewhere, it's looks and sounds just as phony as it really is. You're incredibly deluded if you think a husband has to live in a one bedroom apartment and see his kids every other week just because his wife keeps has a year long bout with headaches from her daily shopping excursions and her shrill whining with her Starbucks club of shrews. You're also in la-la land if you think that most men will accept the sex live of a eunich just because you've decided you don't want to be a lover anymore.

 

You reap what you sow. Moralize all you want but in the end all you'll have is your story to sell to your new found friends at the women's divorce support group before swinging by the pharmacy for a refill of your Zoloft prescription.

 

You just want people to say it's ok that you're cheating.

 

If you'd read any of my other posts you would see that I think for a wife to refuse to have sex because she doesn't "feel" like it, to refuse to compromise and to deny her husband sex with no concern for his feelings is a betrayal of marraige vows and I feel ample grounds for divorce.

 

You are a real jerk. I'm about to get married, my sex life is great, you can just lash out at me all you like, it won't change what you are.

[crazy_grl]

The "easy way"?. You make divorce sound so simple whereas it just isn't.

 

Ah, but cheating, lying, sneaking around behind people's back, breaking people's trust, involving a third party into your problems, hurting your children, that's all simple. How silly of me.

 

But that aside, I didn't say divorce was easy. I said that an easy way not to be seen as a monster is to divorce. If you can't bring yourself to divorce and you fear being seen as a monster for cheating, then just put up with not having sex. I don't see it as a problem with society that a person who cheats is viewed more negatively than a person who doesn't want to have sex when they have the option to leave instead of lying, putting their partner's health at risk, and involving another person in the whole mess.

 

Also, the issue is not about "making wrongs". An affair, in spite of what the betrayed spouse might think, is not something that was specifically done to them.

 

It's as much if not more something that's done to them as is a person not wanting to have sex with their partner.

[catgirl1927]

No one has to "accept" anything, but nothing justifies skuttling around like a snake, which is what cheating is. Don't be mad at me because you're not man enough to fix your own life. And if you think it's ok to fool around on your wife, I guess you think it's ok for your little girl's husband to bring STDs home to her, too. Nice example you're setting there.

[crazy_grl]

You're just being a drama queen. You just need to accept the fact that an hubby who isn't getting love and sex and home can and probably will find it elsewhere. The sooner you come to grips with that harsh reality, the wiser you'll be.

 

So take your moral high ground elsewhere, it's looks and sounds just as phony as it really is. You're incredibly deluded if you think a husband has to live in a one bedroom apartment and see his kids every other week just because his wife keeps has a year long bout with headaches from her daily shopping excursions and her shrill whining with her Starbucks club of shrews. You're also in la-la land if you think that most men will accept the sex live of a eunich just because you've decided you don't want to be a lover anymore.

 

You reap what you sow. Moralize all you want but in the end all you'll have is your story to sell to your new found friends at the women's divorce support group before swinging by the pharmacy for a refill of your Zoloft prescription.

 

Personalizing much, Scriv?

[Scrivdog]

You just want people to say it's ok that you're cheating.

 

If you'd read any of my other posts you would see that I think for a wife to refuse to have sex because she doesn't "feel" like it, to refuse to compromise and to deny her husband sex with no concern for his feelings is a betrayal of marraige vows and I feel ample grounds for divorce.

 

You are a real jerk. I'm about to get married, my sex life is great, you can just lash out at me all you like, it won't change what you are.

 

You've got it all wrong. I don't care if people say it's ok or not. It is what it is. But I do think you're looking for it to be ok not to consider your sex life with your husband as a major factor in the health of your relationship. I just hope you understand that denying your husband sex and intimacy repeatedly is putting your marriage in grave danger.

 

Congratulations on your upcoming marriage, and I mean that sincerely. For God's sake, please listen to him if he complains about the sex life lacking because it's more important than you know. Yes, sex with my wife before we were married was fantastic. Whatever you do, if you can, don't let life get you so caught up that you stop ..!

[stoopid_guy]

Stoopid guy, I swear to God, if I had any idea of who you and your wife were I would so let her know about you.

Well, I guess your ignorance is my bliss then.

 

Tulie, in all seriousness, I respect your opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I do respect it. If you'd prefer not to see mine, I believe there's an "ignore" feature to the board. (Never used it, but seem to have seen it somewhere.)

But you have to admit, there are some on here, like stoopidguy, who are just jerks who cheat because it makes them feel powerful.

Where'd that come from? Though I've seriously thought about it, I haven't cheated. No clue where you got the "feel powerful" from either, safe to assume you're a BS?

 

And the reasons to stay in a sexually frustrating marriage have been well documented and discussed in other threads...

[JackJack]

I just hope you understand that denying your husband sex and intimacy repeatedly is putting your marriage in grave danger.

 

Congratulations on your upcoming marriage, and I mean that sincerely. For God's sake, please listen to him if he complains about the sex life lacking because it's more important than you know. Yes, sex with my wife before we were married was fantastic. Whatever you do, if you can, don't let life get you so caught up that you stop ..

 

 

I don't think the OP is saying she doesn't understand that. I'm sure she is well aware of that. If a man denys is wife of emotional connection, communication, affection etc it can also put a marraige in "grave danger."

 

"Please listen to him if he complains about the sex life lacking, becasue its more important than you know." True and I hope that when she speaks to him about how she feels what shes not getting from him, he listens to her as well. See it works both ways.

[Scrivdog]

..I don't think the OP is saying she doesn't understand that. I'm sure she is well aware of that...

 

I'm not so convinced. I suspect that she's demonized cheaters and thinks that a decent guy will just divorce her if the issue arises. She hasn't made the connection between a sex-starved husband and a cheater. Most women don't.

[catgirl1927]

You've got it all wrong. I don't care if people say it's ok or not. It is what it is. But I do think you're looking for it to be ok not to consider your sex life with your husband as a major factor in the health of your relationship. I just hope you understand that denying your husband sex and intimacy repeatedly is putting your marriage in grave danger.

 

Congratulations on your upcoming marriage, and I mean that sincerely. For God's sake, please listen to him if he complains about the sex life lacking because it's more important than you know. Yes, sex with my wife before we were married was fantastic. Whatever you do, if you can, don't let life get you so caught up that you stop ..!

 

That's not what I'm looking for AT ALL. Like I've said before, healthy adult relationships include sex AND romance, and nothing disgusts me more than for a woman to use her husband for an ATM. In my opinion, women like that are just hookers with a contract.

 

You can't know this about me, but I am not one to refuse sex. Esp not with my hubby to be, I think he is really hot. And I'm not a child, I'm in my 30s (old woman!!!) and so my sex drive is hopefully pretty well set.

 

It's not that women who refuse sex are right, they aren't. But cheating is just so low. No one should do it, and no one should HAVE to do it. I don't believe that people get trapped. People may feel trapped, and it might be a long, hard road, but you can fix just about anything, even if that means letting it go. Nothing justifies cheating.

 

I'm also personalizing, because being cheated on was the most humiliating experience of my life. If I were SO inadequate, he should have just dumped me, not humiliated me like that.

[StayClose]

A man who say's he wants to emotionally connect with a spouse who won't touch him and then has an affair with someone he just met isn't necissarily a contradiction.

 

For an adult male, having sex symolizes being an adult. Being with a women sexually who are turned on by us and want to be with us (or at least pretend to be) re-enforces our self-worth. Some men who can't get this from their wives get this from other women, and it works to a degree emotionally, even if it it is bad for the marriage.

 

(BTW, before I met my wife, I ran up some big phone sex bills. I found that phone sex at $2 minute - a sexual interaction with a live woman - filled an emotional need for me that I was unable to fill any other way - not from porn, nor from female platonic friends.)

 

As for the OPs question, as I stated before, that is a different question than that of a spouse who has lost libido for non-health reasons. But I will try to answer that anyway...

 

If my wife were to permanently lose her ability to have sex, we would have a serious discussion about it. We may decide together to open the marraige to approved 3rd partners. Or I would periodically hire a prostitute. Or maybe I would agree to just use porn. Or maybe we'd get divorced. You really can't know until you're in the situation.

 

Another good question is to turn it around. What if I became permanently impotent? l would ask if she could be OK with oral and helping her masturbate. However if I became a quadroplegic and she chose to stay with me, I would be OK with her taking on a "boy toy." I don't feel it is fair for me to say she can never have sex again.

[burning 4 revenge]

Just to be clear (I reread what I posted and it sounds bad) I don't mean that people who are paralyzed should have died. I mean that if my SO went elsewhere for sex because I disgust him, I would feel like I would rather die. Sorry, that sounded awful and insensitive and wasn't at all what I meant. But I would definitely rather be dead than be in a marriage where my SO was having sex elsewhere. It's not a marriage and it's the ultimate humiliation.

 

Anyone can justify anything. It doesn't make it right.

I agree. Isn't life happy

[catgirl1927]

I'm not so convinced. I suspect that she's demonized cheaters and thinks that a decent guy will just divorce her if the issue arises. She hasn't made the connection between a sex-starved husband and a cheater. Most women don't.

 

I honestly don't think there is a difference. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, that's just what I believe.

 

I do think a decent guy would leave. Actually, a really decent person would be so eaten up with guilt he would suffer, and that's why I would let him go.

[burning 4 revenge]

That is a ridiculous lie. It's so absurd as to defy explanation. But I guess you have to tell yourself that to get through the night. Good god.

 

An affair is something you to do your spouse AND your children. You have betrayed your entire family, and knowingly chosen your affair partner over all of them.

 

No, divorce isn't simple. But if you decide to have an affair, that is the choice you have made. And if you're the kind of man who screws around on his wife, you really shouldn't be around children anyway. That's really not the example that should be set for them.

It's refreshing to see that some people still have viscera and morals

[luvstarved]

Being physically incapable of sex and refusing to have sex with your partner when you are perfectly healthy and capable ARE two entirely different things. My H trotted this question out too when I told him I would have to leave rather than stay in a sexless marriage...he "questioned my level of commitment". What BS.

 

Still, I also believe that cheating is cheating. Thus the word "cheater"

 

Notice that despite all my frustration and ample opportunity to just go out and drift into an affair, I did have the decency to try to work out my marriage first, or prepare for it to end if need be, BEFORE even CONSIDERING sex with someone else.

 

Luckily, it hasn't come to that and we seem to be working things out. But any rationale for cheating to me is just not there. If you can't get what you need at home, then you are in the wrong relationship and you should get out. Intentionally withholding sex and cheating both break the vows, and you can "chicken and egg" all you want, but the bottom line is, neither happens in a truly healthy relationship. And I am the first to admit that my marriage has not been a healthy relationship. We are trying to see if we can heal it. Only time will tell if we can.

[Mz. Pixie]

Just to be clear (I reread what I posted and it sounds bad) I don't mean that people who are paralyzed should have died. I mean that if my SO went elsewhere for sex because I disgust him, I would feel like I would rather die. Sorry, that sounded awful and insensitive and wasn't at all what I meant. But I would definitely rather be dead than be in a marriage where my SO was having sex elsewhere. It's not a marriage and it's the ultimate humiliation.

 

Anyone can justify anything. It doesn't make it right.

 

I'm glad you made this correction because I was like WOW- I couldn't believe you said that that way.

 

You know, I believe- and there are others that feel the same way, that sexual refusal is a form of emotional adultery. It's a violation of the marriage vows and covenant.

[Flyin in Clouds]

For all you men feel adultery is justified if you aren't getting sex from your wife:

Are women justified in their adultery if they aren't getting their emontional needs met form their husband? I think we all agree the answer is no, but my point is are emotional needs somehow different than physical sexual needs?

 

Let me turn it around. Suppose it was me that was paralized and couldn't perform and my wife was still young and having needs (that's a polite way of saying she would still get horny and crave sex)?

 

I would want her to find someone that could take care of that need for her. I would not want her to suffer because of me.

 

Well, if she had no sensation she wouldn't really be enjoying it, so...

If my wife wasn't enjoying sex I wouldn't be enjoying it either.

 

Would you tell her you were having affairs or would you still sneak around and lie?

I wouldn't have an affair. If she didn't feel as I do, and give me her blessing to be with another woman then I wouldn't do it. I would hope she'd feel like me and want me to find happiness. But if not I'd have to bear the pain. Wouldn't make me happy though.

 

This is of course assuming you wouldn't just leave her.

I wouldn't leave.

 

 

I would think that what would make them angry is the fact that a cheater is lying, sneaking around and humiliating them behind their back, laughing at them for thinking they are loved or respected.

If a woman isn't having sex with her husband because she refuses that is humiliating.

 

However, if you refuse to have sex with your husband, and for some reason the two of you don't want to divorce, then you need to open your marriage.

 

What is so wrong about cheating is that it is so dishonest.

OK, so you tell the wife, "we aren't getting it on. that means you aren't interested in sex with me, so I'm going to have an affair with Sally down the street. There you know, so I'm not cheating... " ?

 

I was honest with her. She still doesn't agree to have sex nor let me have sex. But I'm not sneaking around behind her back. She knows. And she knows why.

 

. If you tell her, I need sex and if you don't give it to me I'm going to go outside our marriage, and then you do that without lying or sneaking around, well then, what can she say?

Uh, she can say, "honey here are the divorce papers... Oh, and get out of my house and leave the keys to my cars, and don't bother with the bank accounts - I've got those too."

 

What's hilarious is how men will say "I need that connection with my wife, it's how I know she loves me. But she won't give it to me, so I'm doing a college girl. You know, for emotional fullfillment."

Oh, I see you misunderstand what we mean by that emotional connection thing.. see another HUGE misunderstanding between the sexes.

 

It's not the same as your emotional connection thing. See all we are after is someone that when we are having sex with them doesn't act like they are paralized from the neck down... See that college girl is either a better actress or she really does enjoy it when we're diddling her. She responds! And in a very positive way. She doesn't just shrug and say, "what you want to do it again... ok if I must. Here you go honey, bang a way..." That college girl actually shows some enthusiasm for our love making.

 

if she does not know his feelings, she may think he is happy with how things are...then he is dishonest because he has not used every possible resource to "fix" his marriage.

Too many refuse to believe their husbands have any needs or dismiss those needs as being unimportant. Just because a woman can do without sex doesn't mean her partner can or should. Some women simply refuse to see the light until it's too late.

many men do not want to work at making their wives interested....they want her to be the sex slave.

Yeah, baby that's what I'm talking about... Is there something wrong with wanting my woman to be my pesonal sex slave?

 

Why is it men have to supply all these funky "emotional needs" that women have, but if we want something kinky from them that's out of bounds?

 

What I don't get is that men who want sex are just wanting sex, but women who want sex "need" the sex for connection and feel rejected without it. Men in a different way need more than just a physical release. Stoopid Guy mentioned on another thread that if a wife at least gave a physical release to her husband, he would not feel frustrated. Having been there, this works occasionally, but even this does nothing for making a man feel that he can turn his woman on. This is important.

Exactly. For a man, it is important to know that we can turn our woman on, give her pleasure with - to put it crudely - our tool. If we aren't lighting her fire, if we are just using her like some inflatible plastic doll, if sex is merely mutual simultaneous masturbation that's pretty depressing. Ego deflating and a huge turn off. Really want to hurt a guy. Just tell him, "you know honey I've been faking it all along. I never really had any orgasms with you. You're just lousy in bed, that's why I don't want sex with you anymore". that does wonders for a guy, spoken or unspoken that's the message when women decide that sex just isn't important anymore.

 

If a wife cannot be turned on due to physical reasons, then this is understandable. If she cannot due to emotional reasons, this is much harder to take. At the back of the mind is the idea that if another man tried...he could...it is me, not her.

And if a woman is an emotional cripple we men just have to grin and bear it. But if a man is similarly emotionally crippled and doesn't provide that great emotional feeling for his wife, well it's all his fault and she's justified in having an affair.

 

if a man says he needs sex because it's an expression of love between him and his wife, and when he doesn't get it he goes out and nails anything that will sit still, then I find it hard to believe it's really the emotional connection he's after.

that's because you don't understand male emotional connection. It's not the same as a woman's. When men and women assume the other sex is just like us we run into big problems. We have to pay attention to each other's differences.

 

it is SO naive and stupid to count on someone else to take care of you

So if you are crippled it's stupid to count on your spouse to take care of you?

 

But what I'm really asking is, do you guys really think that if your wife were paralyzed you'd be justified in having sex with other women?

No, but I would hope my wife would care enough about me to not want me to suffer too.

 

It seems really dumb to become emotionally involved with a woman while you are married. Dumb and complicated. Why not just divorce so you can be happy?

Do you think a man can only love one woman at a time? That it is not possible to really be in love with two women?

 

Stoopid guy, I swear to God, if I had any idea of who you and your wife were I would so let her know about you. Your wife may indeed have some pretty serious issues but you are just about the biggest jerk I have ever had the displeasure of attempting to communicate with.

 

All you care about is your wallet and your penis. All you want is for people to line up and approve of you having an affair, you sicken me.

Whoa... and this from a woman in a semi-open relationship. But yes the problem is Stoopid guy might like to have an arrangement like yours, Tulie, but his wife would clean his clock in divorce court if he even suggested it. He got trapped. Why should a guy get married? We lose and gain nothing. We don't gain absolute fidelity, that's for sure and if the marriage goes south men end up being the biggest losers. If Stoopid guy's wife cared more about his penis and less about his wallet maybe Stoopid guy wouldn't consider having an affair.

 

And yes, Tulie's attitude about cheating is typical of most people in the "lifestyles". They have a strict code of conduct and violations are considerd cheating and grounds for divorce. Cheating isn't having sex outside marriage, it's violating the terms both partners agree to live by.

 

Then, I'd be vulnerable to him leaving me and me being unable to take care of myself. So, you're back at square one.

Yeah, well, on a different forum a woman, her lover, and her disabled husband that she cared for all lived in the same house.

 

If I was the disabled husband while on the one hand I'd want my wife to find happiness, it would also be really hard to live with her and watch her get it from someone else.

 

to my thinking, that's ABUSE. Holding your spouse hostage with sex is very much like locking him or her in the closet until he or she agrees with you. It's not right, and should be grounds to end the marriage.

How about we change the divorce laws so that if a spouse withholds sex they get nothing, and if a person cheats they get nothing. I.e. the offending party loses their half of the community property? Of course proving cheating is a whole lot easier than proving withholding sex.

 

Seems to me that an easy way to avoid being seen a "the monster" would be just to get a divorce instead of cheating.

Yes, that sounds right. But the problem is really hard. Give up 32 years of marriage? OK, the marriage isn't perfect, but what ever is? Do the downsides out weight the up sides? The kids, the family, home... not just a house, my home... it's all hard to let go. Hurting other people even though we are hurting? It's not an easy decision. And a spouse that adandon's their helpless wife or husband... leaving them in sickness when their support is most needed. People sure don't think much of such a man or women.

So take your moral high ground elsewhere,

Excuse me but the cheater is on the moral low ground - always.

 

Are you saying it's OK to rob banks or 7/11s because you need the money?

 

How about embezzling because your employer isn't paying you enough?

 

You're incredibly deluded if you think a husband has to live in a one bedroom apartment and see his kids every other week just because his wife keeps has a year long bout with headaches from her daily shopping excursions and her shrill whining with her Starbucks club of shrews.

You are more likely to end up in the apartment and have NO contact with your kids if your wife discovers you are cheating. And it usually comes out.

 

the issue is not about "making wrongs". An affair, in spite of what the betrayed spouse might think, is not something that was specifically done to them.

If your wife had an affair and gave you an STD believe me it would be something she did to you.

 

Don't be mad at me because you're not man enough to fix your own life.

Right on catgirl... none of the choices a spouse in a long term marriage face are good. But the least evil is divorce if the marriage can't be fixed and one spouse ignores the needs of the other.

 

I just hope you understand that denying your husband sex and intimacy repeatedly is putting your marriage in grave danger.

It works both ways Scrivdog. A man denying his wife's needs is just as guilty of contributing to her affair isn't he?

 

And just as it takes two to tango it is ususally the case that the relationship dies because both partners are in the wrong to some degree. A wife gets turned off because of some slight from her husband, then he's miffed because he doesn't get any, and things spiral down. Both are to blame to some degree. Some men are just tomcats and will screw anything that wiggles. Some women are just frigid or turn frigid for no apparent reason. But usually the failfure of a relationship is not entirely due to one parnter and the other is totally blameless.

 

For God's sake, please listen to him if he complains about the sex life lacking because it's more important than you know. Yes, sex with my wife before we were married was fantastic.

Yeah, mine too. And after for along time. But things change over 30 years of marriage. Like women going through the change of life... and that affecting them.

 

She hasn't made the connection between a sex-starved husband and a cheater. Most women don't.

OK, question to Scrivdog... why is sex important? Is it just getting your rocks off? Or do you need more than that? Isn't the real issue that sex is the way we men make an emotional connection to the woman? Isn't it a need of ours to have a woman that makes us feel like we are desired for being a man and a lover? Not just the mere sex act, but all that goes with it, like feeling wanted, desired, needed by a woman? If a wife makes us feel we are just a paycheck and nothing more... Suppose when you get married your wife is drop dead gorgeous, but over the years she lets her self go - because heck she's already trapped her man into slavery, er marriage - isn't that a way of breaking her vows? Do partners have any obligation to keep their appearances up? Does a woman really want to live with a man that turns into a total slob? Do women understand at all what an ego boost it is for a man to have a sexy woman on his arm? And doesn't a man have a similar obligation to be - "studly" for his wife?

 

If a woman believes she can let her looks go, gain 50 or 100 pounds and her husband should still feel the same about her... well women are deluging themselves. And that's not being "shallow". If a man becomes an alcoholic jerk after marriage is a wife shallow for dumping him?

 

I'm in my 30s (old woman!!!) and so my sex drive is hopefully pretty well set.

What will happen when you are 50 catgirl? Think your sex drive might change?

 

Being with a women sexually who are turned on by us and want to be with us (or at least pretend to be) re-enforces our self-worth.

Exactly. And when the woman you love rejects your advances it hurts. A whole lot. And that pain can turn to resentment and then the relatinship spirals down...

 

However if I became a quadroplegic and she chose to stay with me, I would be OK with her taking on a "boy toy." I don't feel it is fair for me to say she can never have sex again.

Not just OK with it, but I'd want her to. It would hurt me even more to know my condition was causing her pain.

 

Sorry for the long post.