Miscellaneous ramblings of an unfulfilled man

[Guest]

Overall, our life is wonderful. We have no money problems, and our long term goals are perfectly aligned. We have a wonderful extended family, and 2 beautiful children of our own. Outwardly speaking, things are great. But I feel lost in a sea of obligation, confinement, with a lack of affection and appreciation.

 

First off, I am not for a second convinced the issues in the relationship with my wife are one sided. I am searching for the answers to feel loved and fulfilled. Could it be me? Do I have an unreasonable viewpoint or expectations? Does she really love me, just doesn’t show it? Some days I am angry at her, some days I think I am crazy for feeling this way.

 

She is one of the best mothers I have seen. Sure she gets burned out and frustrated, but the effort and focus is all on the kids. Their needs, be they feed, developmental, or other, are her priority (mine too of course, but this is not about them). However that is the issue is that she has only so much to give, and it almost all goes to the kids (she freely admits this). A wonderful woman and mother does not always mean she is necessary the best “wife”. If you have read Dr. Laura’s latest book you know exactly what I mean.

 

Sex is at the party at the center of this, sure. Sex is so mundane now, it’s barely more interesting than masturbating. From her perspective, the quality and quantity is fine. From my side it is boring, mundane, and not nearly often enough. I yearn to see her body in all it's wonderful, beautiful glory. I want her to feel more comfortable with herself to open up and enjoy herself and sex. The details of frequency or what we do are not important here, but suffice to say it’s about average or a bit less than family with young kids. Others have it worse than me, sure, but I am not comparing myself to others, I am concerned only with the relationship with MY wife. For her, sex is concentration, not an open fun thing, but you concentrate on the orgasm, then he goes, that’s it.

 

Even if she says differently, she is not comfortable with her body, and not comfortable with random fun (not even sex) outside the bedroom other than a hug and a light kiss. I cannot see her naked out of bed, even when she gets into the shower. I should not touch her anywhere but hugging unless we are preparing for, or in the act of sex. I feel that creative, fun sex is how we can all break from the daily routine and let go, to have fun and fully express ourselves with the ONE you love. By the way, this is drastically different from before we got married, and early in our marriage.

 

My issues are not only sex, it’s sexual attention, and a certain feeling of lacking respect and that “head of the household” thing. I am not archaic, I know the way things work. Both of us entered into our relationship knowing full well that things were generally equal between us in most areas. However that does not preclude her from making me feel masculine, respected, adored, and wanted. I am totally missing all of those things. If you were to look at a scale, where 50 was where she was comfortable with intimacy, her body, and affection/adoration, and what I wanted is 100, we are at 55. I would like to meet in the middle. When it comes to intimacy and the like, we are highly biased to her side, with very little giving.

 

We have talks, she generally knows how I feel. But she does not know that I sit at home resentful and angry many nights and hours of the day over this. If I were to share my true feelings it would devastate her to know that the rest of our (admittedly wonderful) life is not enough, and that I am so bitter (yes that is the right word). If only I could explain to her how emasculating it is to be continually rejected. To have her give up lingerie completely since she does not see the point. To never have the person you most deeply love and feel a connection with, try to attract you. There are just some “affection cavity” that simply cannot be fulfilled by mostly plutonic feelings, or loving from your kids and family. For that a wife is needed.

 

I am not some lazy slob. I share in taking care of the kids and doing housework. On top of that I do all the typical male things like house and car repairs. We go on date nights often, and I make a concerted effort to tell her and do things that tell her I love her. Letters, flowers, notes. I never disrespect her, by yelling at her or using inappropriate language (or anything of the like). She freely admits that I do a great job, and she is wanting for very little emotionally, monetarily, physically, or “husbandly”.

 

So what is next? I act polite and nice, not wanting to hurt her feelings. Often I am quiet, especially after the kids have gone to bed, brooding in my own anger and resentment. I would never consider leaving while the kids are less than 20 years old (long way away), and really assumed this is the woman I would die with. I’ve thought about counseling, or just telling her how I feel, but then she would be devastated, and be convinced that I don’t love her. Quite to the contrary, I love her and need her too much.

 

Why am I sharing here? I just need to vent and “talk” it out. I can’t really talk to anyone about this. That’s it. My life is wonderful, but I feel unfulfilled. Like the water could taste like wine, but my wife holds the grapes. Sad? Maybe. Pathetic? Partly. Typical? I don’t care.

[Mz. Pixie]

Okay, I had to chuckle a bit here. Because you said what you'd like is 100 percent, but she's at 55 and you'd just like to meet in the middle??

 

Well, 55 is over the middle half of 100%.

 

I get what you're saying though. You want her to meet you in between 55-100. Say 75%???

 

First of all, there can be no solution to the problem unless you talk to her. And you're not doing her any favors by not doing so. Furthermore, you're not doing yourself any favors either. You're vulnerable for an affair right now, as we speak. You may never step over the line but you're vulnerable.

 

You want to feel adored??? Perhaps she does to.

 

Why not try- "Honey, as the kids are growing older I just feel a few things are missing in our marriage. I'd like our marriage to be the best it possibly can be for the both of us. I'd like this to be a marriage that continually evolves through our lifetimes and to make sure we're meeting each other's emotional needs"

 

Perhaps you could enlist her to read with you "His Needs Her Needs- how to affair proof your marriage" by Willard Harley

 

Reassure her that you think she's fantastic mom, but that you feel the two of you have lost the deep connection that you had prior to the kids and that you think it's a good time to focus on your marriage. Reassure her that you love her and are devoted to her.

 

There are lots of men on this forum with your same problem, however. Do a search.

 

Could it be her hormones?? Could there have been sexual abuse in her childhood? That would explain her shyness about being naked and such. Is she overweight??

[Tulie]

Guest,

 

You sound like a wonderful man and a good husband and father. Your expectations and desires don't sound out of line in any way and it sounds as though you do genuinely love your wife.

 

Topics like this are hard to discuss fully and frankly face to face. There is always so much worry that your partner is going to be hurt or devastated. May I suggest a long well thought out letter or email with a plan to meet and discuss after? Councelling would probably help you out a lot as a couple.

 

You need to be open with her in an honest an nonaccusitory way. Fully honest.

 

Maybe even have her read your post? There is a lot of caring and love there although she may not like the idea that you posted your troubles for the world to see. Maybe rewrite it as a private letter and have her read it?

[Guest]

You're not going to make any changes doing nothing. That's for sure. Have a serious talk and maybe even start contemplating consequences. Also, if it's quality alone time you seek, try a vacation to some tropical locale. Caring for kids under five is a HUGE job.

[Guest]

 

Could it be her hormones?? Could there have been sexual abuse in her childhood? That would explain her shyness about being naked and such. Is she overweight??

 

 

I'm going to limit any further replies until I read what gets posted to absorb what might get said. She takes no medication. No abuse in her past. I'm quite sure she is unhappy with her post-childbirth body, which is a bit less tight (I do not care), but she is about 135ish.

[Chapter2]

I agree. There is no mistaking from your post that you love your wife and are committed to her and to your children.

 

Re-writing your post as a letter is a great idea. But you also can't just keep swallowing how angry you are. Have you considered individual counseling as a start?

 

Guest,

 

You sound like a wonderful man and a good husband and father. Your expectations and desires don't sound out of line in any way and it sounds as though you do genuinely love your wife.

 

Topics like this are hard to discuss fully and frankly face to face. There is always so much worry that your partner is going to be hurt or devastated. May I suggest a long well thought out letter or email with a plan to meet and discuss after? Councelling would probably help you out a lot as a couple.

 

You need to be open with her in an honest an nonaccusitory way. Fully honest.

 

Maybe even have her read your post? There is a lot of caring and love there although she may not like the idea that you posted your troubles for the world to see. Maybe rewrite it as a private letter and have her read it?

[Jane Doe]

Like the water could taste like wine, but my wife holds the grapes.

 

That's so sad. It struck me though, because that's exactly how I feel, too. I've lived the "ideal marriage" for over 14 years and maintained my white-knuckled grip on suburbia, all the while slowly dying inside.

 

But I digress. This isn't about me. I think you definitely need to talk to your wife and maybe even show her this thread. Perhaps she doesn't understand the true depth of your void. You marriage certainly sounds salvagable. I think individual and joint counseling would behoove both of you. Give it a try.

[catgirl1927]

You should say to her the things you think will "devastate" her. In the nicest way possible.

 

I will say this, when I was a size 2 I ran around naked all the time. Now I've put on 15 pounds and I know my body isn't pretty any more. Plus I'm in my 30s and I have more cellulite, which my doctor says I can't fix without plastic surgery. So I don't like to be naked, and I sure don't like anyone to see me naked. It's hard to explain, I feel it would be rude to make him see me because my body isn't attractive any more. That's probably what's behind the naked thing, and it has nothing to do with you. Honestly, while she can be more open about sex, maybe think about lingerie and work around the naked thing. Just my two cents, as someone who knows how that feels. Having kids changes your body, and it's clear from porn that post-baby bodies aren't what men are into. Just be kind on that count. It's tough, it really is.

 

But otherwise, good lord, TALK to her before you reach the edge and start having affairs and muck up your great life. You guys can work this out as long as you love each other and try really hard.

[Tulie]

Whoa catgirl. From a size to to up 15lbs. To what..a size 5 tops. You think that you are ugly now cause you put on 15 lbs. I think you are just a bit off there. A husband who is in love with his wife is still going to want to see her naked or in lingerie at the weight you describe. Sure..pack it on to 170 or so and perhaps not but at 140 I know my husband loves every inch of me as much now if not more then before we had children. There is absolutely no reason for you to consider yourself undesireable physically at that weight. I have met all of his OW and a lot of them are bigger then I am so no that isnt why.

 

Honestly I spend a lot of time talking to men and you would be suprised at just how many of them are desiring a few curves in the female body.

[whichwayisup]

I want her to feel more comfortable with herself to open up and enjoy herself and sex.

 

Tell her this! She needs to hear that from you!

 

Make plans for the kids, ship them off to the grandparents house for a weekend and the two of you have a romantic getaway somewhere nice. Whether it be a Bed'n'breakfast or nice hotel downtown from where you live, DO IT!

 

It will be fun, spontanious and exciting. Show her in action how much you love and want her...Explain to her that you "need" to feel that intimacy and connection with her, that it's just not all about sex...You both are wondeful parents, and have a good life together, so if you want it to be better, definately talk to her, and ask HER what needs she feels that may not be met.

 

Communicating is really hard sometimes, opening up and sharing, then having to really listen too, but it's worth it. It's hard work and sometimes uncomfortable to have certain types of conversations, but only good can come of it!

[Guest]

What you wrote is wonderful. Clean it up - take out the intro and the 'she's and turn them into 'you's and spell platonic correctly and modify the strong language and then give her the letter.

 

NOTHING is accomplished without communication. And the longer you refuse to communicate honestly, the more bile you will build up.

[stoopid_guy]

Sex is at the party at the center of this, sure. Sex is so mundane now, it’s barely more interesting than masturbating. From her perspective, the quality and quantity is fine. From my side it is boring, mundane, and not nearly often enough. I yearn to see her body in all it's wonderful, beautiful glory. I want her to feel more comfortable with herself to open up and enjoy herself and sex. The details of frequency or what we do are not important here, but suffice to say it’s about average or a bit less than family with young kids. Others have it worse than me, sure, but I am not comparing myself to others, I am concerned only with the relationship with MY wife. For her, sex is concentration, not an open fun thing, but you concentrate on the orgasm, then he goes, that’s it.

Has she always been like this, or is it something new?

 

A few thoughts:

 

Women are very verbal, make sure she knows you consider her beautiful and desirable. Tell her how beautiful and sexy she is. Tell her how wonderful her soft skin feels and tastes, all of it. Carress and kiss her entire body. Take deep breaths of her hair and tell her how much you like it. Any time she cuts herself down, she's fishing for compliments. Tell and show her she's wrong. Be waiting when she comes out of the shower to give her a hug. She may push you away, but she'll be flattered and probably smile anyway.

 

Little things count for a lot. Gas up her car. Buy her favorite candy (and hide it from the kids so she knows it's just for her.) Give her gifts for no reason at all. Do household chores she doesn't expect you to.

 

When you're making love, don't let her concentrate. If she does, stop and tickle her or "blow rasberries" on her tummy. Let her know she's supposed to be having fun.

[cranium]

Outwardly speaking, things are great. But I feel lost in a sea of obligation, confinement, with a lack of affection and appreciation.

 

From her perspective, the quality and quantity is fine. From my side it is boring, mundane, and not nearly often enough. I yearn to see her body in all it's wonderful, beautiful glory. I want her to feel more comfortable with herself to open up and enjoy herself and sex.

 

We have talks, she generally knows how I feel. But she does not know that I sit at home resentful and angry many nights and hours of the day over this. If I were to share my true feelings it would devastate her to know that the rest of our (admittedly wonderful) life is not enough, and that I am so bitter (yes that is the right word). If only I could explain to her how emasculating it is to be continually rejected. To have her give up lingerie completely since she does not see the point. To never have the person you most deeply love and feel a connection with, try to attract you. There are just some “affection cavity” that simply cannot be fulfilled by mostly plutonic feelings, or loving from your kids and family. For that a wife is needed.

 

I am not some lazy slob. I share in taking care of the kids and doing housework. On top of that I do all the typical male things like house and car repairs. We go on date nights often, and I make a concerted effort to tell her and do things that tell her I love her. Letters, flowers, notes. I never disrespect her, by yelling at her or using inappropriate language (or anything of the like). She freely admits that I do a great job, and she is wanting for very little emotionally, monetarily, physically, or “husbandly”.

 

So what is next? I act polite and nice, not wanting to hurt her feelings. Often I am quiet, especially after the kids have gone to bed, brooding in my own anger and resentment. I would never consider leaving while the kids are less than 20 years old (long way away), and really assumed this is the woman I would die with. I’ve thought about counseling, or just telling her how I feel, but then she would be devastated, and be convinced that I don’t love her. Quite to the contrary, I love her and need her too much.

 

 

Guest, you don't know how much your comments echo my own. I had an affair years ago after many, many, many talks with my wife and her knowing exactly how I felt; what I wanted. My A partner made it clear she wanted me and was very comfortable in her own body. She knew sex could be fun even with the lights on and it wasn't just a race to orgasm; so I was stupid for awhile.

 

I did not tell my wife and for ten years after my A, I continued to communicate what I was missing, negotiate for what I needed, but to no avail. I was bitter, resentful, angry, you name it. I withdrew and became the utilitarian husband and father she was demonstrating she wanted.

 

Well, while I was brooding in my own anger and resentment, OM showed up to fulfill her emotional needs of conversation and affection. She then engaged in an A for nearly a year before I caught her. Her's was an EA that became physical.

 

I didn't tell my wife of my A for nearly a year after discovering her's. Mine was distant history, why go there. I could handle reconciling for both of us. Part of the reason I finally came clean had to do with her still not "getting" how important sex is to me. Her A wasn't about sex, but mine was. Not just about sex, but as you say, about sexual attention, being adored and wanted.

 

We are making progress in repairing our partnership, but it's taken work. I guess I'm sharing my story in hopes your's doesn't follow a similar path. I agree with catgirl; you should say the things you think will "devastate" her. Consider counseling because you do love her. The way things currently stand you are facing devastating consequences to your own health and well-being long term; I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't already dealing with depression.

 

Hang in there.

[luvstarved]

I agree with everyone who says that you MUST tell her how you feel, all in the very nice tone of your original post.

 

What I would like to add is this: do not be surprised, and for cripe's sake don't withdraw, if she DOES have a negative reaction at first. If she doesn't "get it" the first time, find a clearer, nicer way of saying it. Make sure that she understands how you really feel, and not just getting the message that you want more sex, dammit.

 

I think that a HUGE majority of problems in communication is in the fact that we put our own interpretation on what we hear. As I am working things out with my H, we end up having conversations that turn to fights (as we assume and second guess each other's intentions) and then back to conversations in which something meaningful and mutually agreeable finally pops out. The fight portions are becoming shorter and in some cases not happening at all anymore, and that is progress and things take time...so don't expect to have a single conversation that changes things overnight.

 

So no, don't nag, but don't be daunted by initial misunderstandings and discomfort.

 

You seem like a super guy and I wish you the best.

[Guest]

Original poster here. I have prepared this "letter" to give her. Let me know your thoughts. Although actually giving it to her frightens me terribly. To think that she might feel funny about sex, or avoid it altogether. Or worse, have her faking feelings she does not have, I do not want that to happen.

 

And to catwoman: my guess is that your are beautiful the way you are, and you shoudl go back to "running around naked". Your significant other will thank you

 

 

Overall, our life is wonderful. We have no money problems, and our long term goals are perfectly aligned. We have a wonderful family including 2 beautiful children of our own. Outwardly speaking, things are great and we are truly blessed.

 

For a while I have been had some concerns about our relationship. First off, I am not for a second convinced the issues I feel we have in the relationship are one sided. I am searching for the answers to feel loved and fulfilled. Could it be me? Do I have an unreasonable viewpoint or expectations? Do you really love me, just doesn’t show it? Some days I am angry, some days I think I am crazy for feeling this way.

 

You are one of the best mothers I have seen. Sure you get burned out and frustrated, but the effort and focus is all on the kids. Their needs, be they food, developmental, or other, are your priority (mine too of course, but that is not the point). However the issue is that you have only so much to give, and it almost all goes to the kids (you’ve told me this before in so many words). I’m feeling like our parent relationship has obliterated our spousal (especially intimate) relationship. A lot of this is normal but I’m out of my comfort zone.

 

Sex is at the partly at the center of this. Sex is often carrying negative emotions for me because of all the feelings I’m trying to explain in this while letter. The way I understand it, from what you’ve told me, the quality and quantity of our sex life is fine for you. From my side it is mundane. It is not even the quantity. It seems from my side that activities, positions, or certain things are just not part of what we do anymore, and I miss them terribly. So many times when I want us to have sex, I’ve realized lately it’s not even what I want, it is the closeness, and the feeling that you are really willing to share yourself with me. And it is the only time I get to feel and see your body. I yearn to see your body in all it's wonderful, beautiful glory. I want you to feel more comfortable with yourself to open up and enjoy yourself and sex. For you, sex seems to be concentration, not an open fun thing. You concentrate on the orgasm, then I go, that’s it. Even if you say differently, you don’t seem comfortable with your body, and not comfortable with random fun (not even sex, but sexual type touching) outside the bed other than a hug and a light kiss. I’m not allowed see you naked out of bed, even when you get into the shower. I should not touch you anywhere but hugging unless we are preparing for, or in the act of sex. I feel that creative, fun sex is how we can break from the daily routine and let go, to have fun and fully express ourselves with each other. This is different from even a few years ago.

 

My issues are not only sex as I tried to describe above, it’s sexual attention, and feeling wanted. People are different, but I have no feelings at all (receiving) of making me feel masculine, respected, adored, and wanted. I feel those things missing. I feel more like the father of your children, than you object of desire and lover. If you were to look at a scale, where 50 was where we are with intimacy and affection/adoration, and what I wanted is 100, we are at 55. I would like to meet in the middle at 75 or more. When it comes to intimacy and the like, we are highly biased to your side (from my viewpoint), which is probably why you feel things are fine, and I don’t share your viewpoint.

 

We’ve had talks, and you generally know how I feel. But you do not know that I sit at home resentful and angry many nights and hours of the day over this. Lately it has been monopolizing my thoughts too much. In the past, I feel that I were to share my true feelings it would hurt you to know that the rest of our (admittedly wonderful) life isn’t fulfilling for me completely, and that I am bitter. If only I could explain how emasculating it is to be feel unwanted. To have you give up lingerie completely since you do not see the point. To have the person I most deeply love and feel a connection with, never try to attract , entice , or reach out to touch me unless in the act of sex itself. There are just some “affection cavity” that simply cannot be fulfilled by mostly platonic feelings, or loving from your kids and family. For that a wife, lover, mate, and spouse is needed.

 

I like to think I am not some lazy slob. I share in taking care of the kids and doing housework. On top of that I do all the typical male things like house and car repairs. We go on date nights often, and I make a concerted effort to tell you that and do things that tell you I love you. I never disrespect you, by yelling or using inappropriate language (or anything of the like). You’ve told me before I’m great around the house, and are wanting for very little emotionally, monetarily, physically, or “husbandly”. If I am lacking, for goodness sake, tell me how I can give you what you need. Maybe I don’t tell you enough how much you are a wonderful mother, maybe I don’t tell you enough how beautiful you are.

 

I’ve thought about counseling either by myself or us together, or just telling you how I feel, but I haven’t for fear of how you might take it. Maybe you would think I don’t love you so much, quite to the contrary, I love you and need you too much, or so it feels. But I’ve decided the consequences of me “stewing” would only further hurt our relationship if we did not discuss what’s bugging me. Our life is wonderful, but I feel unfulfilled. Like the water could taste like wine, but you hold the grapes.

 

So I leave it open to you to give it some thought and to come back to me to talk when you want about where we go from here.

[quankanne]

nicely put, OP, but take heed of what WWIU suggests: Plan some time alone and away from the family with your wife. And offer that suggestion in your letter so that she understands you're talking about solving this problem in y'alls relationship, not give the impression that you're picking on her or harping on the lack of attention you are getting.

 

my guess is that while you still see her as your lover, then the mother of your kids, she sees herself as mommy, period. From what I'm told, that's a hard role to step away from, especially when your kids are younger and they need you most. Being sexy prolly doesn't occur to her because she's just trying to keep a rein on being mom and wife. Which is where a vacation away from your kids (like a whole weekend) can help you two reconnect. It honestly doesn't sound like she's "off" of sex or not into you, but merely doesn't have the energy to think about these things because she's wrapped up in that mommy role!

 

whatever you do, keep giving her the opportunity to reconnect with you, even if she initially doesn't realize that it's something you need to work on – once she DOES figure it out, she'll appreciate that you put your relationship first rather than found someone else to fill her role in bed.

 

good luck, and keep us posted.

[Guest]

Paragraph 4 you say

I’m trying to explain in this while letter.

 

I'm guessing the 'i' is supposed to be an 'o'?

 

I think it's great and wish you the best of luck

 

signed

not the same Guest lol

[Flyin in Clouds]

Overall, our life is wonderful. We have no money problems, and our long term goals are perfectly aligned.

 

Are you sure you're not me? Your story sounds a lot like mine.

Even if she says differently, she is not comfortable with her body, and not comfortable with random fun (not even sex) outside the bedroom other than a hug and a light kiss.

She sounds like she needs a lot of wine to loosen up...

 

 

I cannot see her naked out of bed, even when she gets into the shower. I should not touch her anywhere but hugging unless we are preparing for, or in the act of sex.

Gotta fix that. You have to convince her that you love looking at her, naked, and love touching her. Hold her hand. Massage her neck. Gradually increase the touching between the two of you. And it should not always lead to sex. Make it acceptable to touch each other. Take the lead, don't take no for an answer. I don't mean force. I just mean don't let her turn away all the time. Look into her eyes. Hold her hand and kiss it. And insist that you kiss each other in front of the kids when you part in the morning. What better way to teach kids how a loving couple should treat each other than show them you love each other.

 

My issues are not only sex, it’s sexual attention, and a certain feeling of lacking respect and that “head of the household” thing. I am not archaic, I know the way things work. ... However that does not preclude her from making me feel masculine, respected, adored, and wanted.

I'm hearing you.

 

We have talks, she generally knows how I feel. But she does not know that I sit at home resentful and angry many nights and hours of the day over this. If I were to share my true feelings it would devastate her to know that the rest of our (admittedly wonderful) life is not enough, and that I am so bitter (yes that is the right word).

She can't read your mind and you can't read hers. So stop doing that. You have to talk to her, seriously. Spend time after the kids are in bed. Wine, candles, ...

 

If only I could explain to her how emasculating it is to be continually rejected.

Well tell her. She doesn't know what she's doing to you. It will be hard because women don't see the world in the same way we do. You have to make then understand your POV, and you have to try as best we men can to understand theirs.

 

To have her give up lingerie completely since she does not see the point. To never have the person you most deeply love and feel a connection with, try to attract you.

Yeap, I don't get why women don't see being sexy for their man is important. Same thing here. But you have to explain to her that her wearing lingerie is a signal that she really does care about you, your needs, loves you, and wants to please you.

 

She freely admits that I do a great job, and she is wanting for very little emotionally, monetarily, physically, or “husbandly”.

You treat her too good. She's a spoiled princess and doesn't have to work to make you like her. Right? If you are always nice why would she have to change anything to make you happy?

 

So what is next? I act polite and nice, not wanting to hurt her feelings. Often I am quiet, especially after the kids have gone to bed, brooding in my own anger and resentment.

Stop being nice. She's not being nice to you. Of course she doesn't really know she's not being nice because you never give her any signals that you are unhappy. You just "brood". Stop brooding and start yelling. Well, start making your feelings know emphatically. Actual yelling would be counter productive.

 

... or just telling her how I feel, but then she would be devastated, and be convinced that I don’t love her. Quite to the contrary, I love her and need her too much.

Why would she be devastated? Does she care about you at all? Does she care to know how much she is hurting you? Do you trust her? Do you think she really loves you? If the answers are yes, she wouldn't want to be causing you pain. Would she? You don't want to hurt her do you? Do you think she wants to hurt you? Stop suffering in silence. How would she know how you feel if you never tell her by revealing your emotions?

 

My story is over here, read the whole thread because you aren't alone.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t100525/

 

But basicaly your choices are live in misery - unhappily ever after (not recommended), cheat (not recommended), divorce (not recommended), bullet to head (not recommended) or get off your lazy ass and fix your relationship. Are you the man of the house or a pussy? You want to be treated like head of household. Then step up to the plate buddy and act like it. Take responsibility for your relationship and your wife's happiness as well as your kids and yours. Stop wallowing in self pity. Your wife can not read your mind. And if you are hiding your true feelings of hurt to spare her, you are seriously doing both of you a BIG disservice.

 

And this is something that should really resonate with your wife. Nothing can be better for you kids than for them to see two parents that show their love and affection for each other. Everyday.

[everlong]

another great topic. i would like to wad in and throw in my 2 cents worth. if i was the man in this situation i would stop and think about what i was saying here - about sex. first of all, it sound like you have a great sex life - you just want more of it. the thing i would tell u to remind yourself is this - she is more important than what you might desire sexually. by 'wanting' more you are making her feel 'less' when in reality what you both already have is probably great. shift the focus from sex to romance - spend time together doing romantic things and you will probably find that you have 'misplaced one of the priorities/reasons' you fell in love with her in the first place.

[Flyin in Clouds]

 

I will say this, when I was a size 2 I ran around naked all the time. Now I've put on 15 pounds and I know my body isn't pretty any more. Plus I'm in my 30s and I have more cellulite, which my doctor says I can't fix without plastic surgery. So I don't like to be naked, and I sure don't like anyone to see me naked.

 

Why are you women so damn dumb? 15 pounds? That's nothing... 75 lbs now that's a worry. But 15... come off it. cellulite? Come on he'll just stare at your breast... they don't have cellulite. Accentuate the positive charms you have.

 

 

It's hard to explain, I feel it would be rude to make him see me because my body isn't attractive any more.

 

Why don't you let us guys be the judge of that, eh? Put on some sexy lingerie and believe me he'll love it. Ask your man if he thinks it is "rude" for you to walk around naked in front of him. His little head will tell you what he really thinks.

 

Having kids changes your body, and it's clear from porn that post-baby bodies aren't what men are into.

 

that's crap. You know what is a turn on about women in porn? They at least appear to be interested in wild monkey sex. It's a woman's attitude toward sex that matters most. and that's what sexy lingerie says. "Hey guy I'm willing to be your personal slut..." I'm sexy, for you. A little cellulite? Some thigh high black stockings, a lace bra and I won't notice.

 

Hell your eyes, lips and hair probalby distract me so I wouldn't notice.

[RecordProducer]

This happens to so many married couples, it's not even funny. There is always one who craves something. I think people simply fall out of love and become room mates with time. They share the responsibilities of every-day life and don't seem to be much interested in the other one's problems. They talk about whether the bill for electricity was paid and who will take the child to the doctor tomorrow. Wet kisses are not fun anymore and the jokes are worn out. You always see your spouse from behind or their profile, because they never really sit or stand across you. You don't remember how their eyes look like because they never look you in the eye anymore. You want to do something together, but you don't know what.

 

Then you recall how much fun it was when you walked from point A to point B holding hands and laughing - the same street/park you're walking now, but things seem so cold and boring. You want to be silly again, but when you try to be silly, they act like you're annoying them and don't understand WTF is wrong with you.

 

Are they the only one who is out of love? No, you are, too. But since they are walking one step ahead of you (they started first and they lead), you feel like you are the victim. Even if you are the victim, after a while the infatuation and passion wilts on both sides and everything that was once good loses its flavor.

 

I think the general paradox of human nature is that we need things that can't go together: romance and passion on one side; security and family on the other. We want the kind of romance that we get when we initially fall in love. On one hand we want to feel euphorically in love like on every big beginning; on the other hand, we want things to last forever, to raise children with this person, and share all the dull obligations, and rough times in life together.

 

You can't have a lot of excitement in a monogamous long-term relationship. The excitement wears out. If you want excitement WITH your spouse, you need to do new, exciting things with them all the time. But there is only so many things in life that excite you. And if you remember, the things that were so wonderful at the beginning were really nothing but normal. You would touch and get sexually aroused. You would say tender words and your heart would start jumping. You would fall asleep thinking about each other. Walking in the cold rain seemed like the best thing ever, because your lover was in your thoughts and you were warm on the inside. You were so happy, only because you had her in your life. Nothing else mattered.

 

And you thought this happiness would last forever if you would marry her. But it didn't. And now you want to bring it back. But it's not coming back. What did she do then different from now? Not much. It wasn't her behavior that changed so radically; it was your feelings. Yours and hers.

 

Marriage as an institution is "cursed" - no matter how well you've chosen your partner and how hard you try to make things great, something that will make it frustrating - the spell that the evil witch put on all marriages - will be fulfilled at some point. And things will become a boring routine that hits you in the head with a hammer every day.

[burning 4 revenge]

Thanks for that inspiring post RP. I should have bought that gun.

[Touche]

But what about a marriage where the excitement is still there after many years? Do you not think that is possible? Shared goals and dreams make the excitement last.

 

Walking in the rain holding hands is STILL wonderful if you are still considering yourselves as a TEAM!

[everlong]

"I think the general paradox of human nature is that we need things that can't go together: romance and passion on one side; security and family on the other. We want the kind of romance that we get when we initially fall in love. On one hand we want to feel euphorically in love like on every big beginning; on the other hand, we want things to last forever, to raise children with this person, and share all the dull obligations, and rough times in life together."

 

OUCH! RP! you sound grumpy! teasing ya. i believe that romance and passion and security and family can co-exist - and i know many couples that have managed to bridge the two divides and how have they done this? simple. they simply love each other and work at it. what i noticed in your words was how you 'use langauge' to describe both sides - the work is dull and rough while the first blush of love is euphoric. we all wish life was just one big head long rush into the pleasuredome but reality is there are bills to be paid, jobs we must attend to, family members that will tax and frustrate us, but that is just part of the tapesty of life - if you only taste sweet things all the time, eventually you will lose your appreciation for that sensation and that will become dulled as well. think about the feeling, the reward you get when accomplishing and completing something hard - how that taste differs from not having earned it. i guess the best way i can explain this is this way - i once enjoy that beginning bliss that you talk about and thought it was the best thing in the world until i found out something better. i once watched an ex complete many years of hard university work and the feeling i got from being someone that 'helped' her accomplish her goal, and seeing her staisfaction in doing so - was far better than us tumbling into extasy because it meant more than selfish pleasures [not that there is anything wrong with that - wink] but it meant more and thus the 'payoff' was much sweeter. i hope this made sense.

[Flyin in Clouds]

Original poster here. I have prepared this "letter" to give her. Let me know your thoughts.

 

 

OK first, atually talking may be better than a letter. though the advantage of a letter is you get everything on the table without debate or getting side tracked. Stuff in italics is written as if you were speaking to your wife.

 

For a while I have been had some concerns about our relationship. First off, I am not for a second convinced the issues I feel we have in the relationship are one sided. I am searching for the answers to feel loved and fulfilled. Could it be me? Do I have an unreasonable viewpoint or expectations? Do you really love me, just doesn’t show it? Some days I am angry, some days I think I am crazy for feeling this way.

"I have been had" .. I have been having... freudian slip?

 

OK, this is way too weak, and apologetic. Way to "sensitive 70's guy".

 

Maybe you have issues with me, but I'm feeling you don't really care all that much about me. Do I matter at all to you? Yes, then why aren't we having a normal sex life? Why do you reject my touch? Why can't I see you naked? You are my wife, my woman and I love you and want you - in every way.

That states in a very direct way what you want. it is not unreasonable for you to want to make love to the woman you love. Sex is a vital part of any healthy adult relationship.

You are one of the best mothers I have seen.

that's nice. But you don't want a mother, you want a lover. And that is part of what a wife is. And she's not a great mother if she neglects the needs of her children's father. Cause he'll leave or be miserable which isn't good for anybody.

Sure you get burned out and frustrated, but the effort and focus is all on the kids. Their needs, be they food, developmental, or other, are your priority (mine too of course, but that is not the point).

yeah, yeah, but the kids are not the reason you got married. And they'll grow up and move on. And then how will you relate? "If our relationship falls apart, if we ignore each others needs as lovers that won't be good for the kids."

 

However the issue is that you have only so much to give, and it almost all goes to the kids (you’ve told me this before in so many words).

And that can't continue. We need to have a relationship beyond the kids. The kids are NOT the entire world.

I’m feeling like our parent relationship has obliterated our spousal (especially intimate) relationship. A lot of this is normal but I’m out of my comfort zone.

What? Normal? WTF, who cares? It is not healthy for anyone. Comfort zone... no man you're pissed. Stop pussy footing around the issue.

 

Sex is at the partly at the center of this. ... and I miss them terribly.

That is good. That's what you want. But clean up the grammar.

 

many times when I want us to have sex, I’ve realized lately it’s not even what I want, it is the closeness, and the feeling that you are really willing to share yourself with me.

That's the main pont isn't it? Feeling that she is willing to give the greatest gift a woman can give her man. Herself.

 

My issues are not only sex as I tried to describe above, it’s sexual attention, and feeling wanted. People are different, but I have no feelings at all (receiving) of making me feel masculine, respected, adored, and wanted. I feel those things missing. I feel more like the father of your children, than you object of desire and lover.

More of the main point, don't get side tracked.

 

If you were to look at a scale, where 50 was where we are with intimacy and affection/adoration, and what I wanted is 100, we are at 55. I would like to meet in the middle at 75 or more. When it comes to intimacy and the like, we are highly biased to your side (from my viewpoint), which is probably why you feel things are fine, and I don’t share your viewpoint.

I'd cut this part entirely. Why settle for meeting half way. You want it all the way, and that is what would be best for her too wouldn't it? To be fully sexual with you, her man, her lover, her best friend, her husband and (lastly) father of her children? You do want what is best of her right? And releasing her FULL potential is what you are after for your relationship, not meeting at some half way point. Don't settle. Go for the full thing.

 

In the past, I feel that I were to share my true feelings it would hurt you to know that the rest of our (admittedly wonderful) life isn’t fulfilling for me completely, and that I am bitter. If only I could explain how emasculating it is to be feel unwanted. To have you give up lingerie completely since you do not see the point. To have the person I most deeply love and feel a connection with, never try to attract , entice , or reach out to touch me unless in the act of sex itself.

Seduce? Can she be seductive? For that matter can you be seductive? Isn't that part of what a woman is? Seductive? I'd ask her some questions. Do you care that I'm hurting? Do you really love me? Why can't you show it by being a sexy seductive woman for me?

 

I like to think I am not some lazy slob. I share in taking care of the kids and doing housework. On top of that I do all the typical male things like house and car repairs.

Is this some sort of bargin? Is she a paid whore? You do chores and she'll give you sex? Hey no sex, you can forget me being a help mate, housework or any of that. ... if that's what it takes to get some. Is love really a trade?

 

We go on date nights often, and I make a concerted effort to tell you that and do things that tell you I love you. I never disrespect you, by yelling or using inappropriate language (or anything of the like). You’ve told me before I’m great around the house, and are wanting for very little emotionally, monetarily, physically, or “husbandly”. If I am lacking, for goodness sake, tell me how I can give you what you need. Maybe I don’t tell you enough how much you are a wonderful mother, maybe I don’t tell you enough how beautiful you are.

So you are begging. Many women don't really respect wimpy men that beg. They are attracted to bad boys. Maybe take up motercycle riding and leather... You're a nice guy and nice guys finish last.

 

Maybe what she wants is a man. The only thing that may be lacking in you is a a pair of balls... got any? I don't mean to be mean but if you are not going to be a man don't expect your wife to treat you like one. That doesn't mean being a brute. It does mean being the leader and it does mean not kow towing to her. That doesn't mean not loving her or treating her decently or discounting all her needs or feelings. It does mean standing up for what you want from her. And it is up to her to decide if she's willing to give you what you want. But she also needs to know not giving has its consequences.

 

I’ve thought about counseling either by myself or us together, or just telling you how I feel, but I haven’t for fear of how you might take it.

I wouldn't recommend counseling. It's a last resort. The thing is the two of you need to open up to each other and communicate your feelings without fear that anything you say, which might hurt the other, will cause either of you go to bed hating each other. Can you trust each other that much? The only reason you are telling her all this is to help the both of you.

 

Maybe you would think I don’t love you so much, quite to the contrary, I love you and need you too much, or so it feels. But I’ve decided the consequences of me “stewing” would only further hurt our relationship if we did not discuss what’s bugging me.

That's good. You need to talk, openly and frankly without fear that any hurt will end your relationship.

 

Our life is wonderful, but I feel unfulfilled. Like the water could taste like wine, but you hold the grapes.

Peotic but ... kind of diverts attention from the message. Don't try to be cute. This stuff is serious. It's your life.

 

So I leave it open to you to give it some thought and to come back to me to talk when you want about where we go from here.

No, no, no... See you're leaving it up to her again. Forget it. You want answers. It's not an option to "come back when you feel like it". We need to settle resolve this. We need totalk about it, and I want to know what you feel now. And I want to continue talking about our life tomorrow because I don't want our relationship to just die. I want you. I want us.

 

You are trying to be tto nice and considerate and that isn't doing either of you any good. In fact being overly nice, loving and sensitive to your wife, to the exlusion of yourself and your needs is the whole problem in your relatinship isn't it?

 

This notion that guys have to cater to a woman's every whim, her every desire, want, need and put her on a pedistal to keep her happy no matter what... sorry, that won't work in the long run. If she's not as sensitive to your needs as you seem to be to hers well --- it won't work.

 

You can't have a lot of excitement in a monogamous long-term relationship. The excitement wears out.

 

Yes we age. Thinks mellow. Things change. Hair falls out. That does not mean things have to get boring. It doesn't mean you can't continue to enjoy sex and touching and loving each other. It does mean it takes work.

 

Of course things won't ever be the same as in the begining. I don't think the Mrs. and I will make love in a redwood forest again. But a mature relationship can still be exciting and rewarding.

 

What ever you do, good luck man and I hope your wife listens and cares.