Stepping Back from Sex

[JamesM]

I have a question. (Yes, more than one...but only one for now).

 

I have read and heard that if your wife/husband is not interested in sex, then sometimes it works to pull back as far as giving any sort of pursuit towards sex. Then he or she will begin to wonder what is up and start chasing you. Is that true?

 

And if it is true, how do you get her to catch on to this new strategy? Good grief! She hasn't shown interest...what will change? Maybe she will be happy that I am not chasing her.

 

And if implementing this new strategy, how far does one go? Does that mean I should lay off the hugs and kisses, too? Won't she think I no longer "love" her? Maybe she will think I am cheating...no, I am not.

 

I have begun stopping the extra hugs and kisses. I do not (at least try not to) touch her as much. (Funny thing is..I AM losing interest.) I am laying off the looks and comments that I frequently make...ie. you look sexy, or a touch on the breast, etc). Should I or...in other words, could someone tell me how to proceed?

 

Has this worked for anyone?

[Guest]

My partner tried to do that to me cos i wouldnt give him sex 24/7 so he started laying of and becoming distant etc etc when i finally did notice oh yeh and i took a while he explained why.I felt like he didnt love me anymore and then found out that he was actually playing pathetic payback games and yeh they are pathetic.And it wont get u anywhere so grow up and talk to ur wife and discuss it like a man!!!!!!!

[stoopid_guy]

Can you "step back" from something that's not already happening?

 

I can tell you it didn't work for me before. On the other hand, what's to loose?

[JackJack]

I don't know if it would work or not, but possibly its worth a shot. I think as long as a person is trying something, its better than not doing anything and just sitting there letting things fall to the wayside. However, it also takes 2 to make things work. So even if you do back off, hopefully she will come around and respond to that and in a good way. As far as stepping back from the hugs and kisses, I don't know that I would do that, but maybe step back from the intiating of sex, or touching her in a sexual way. At least the hugs and kisses or I love you's let her know you still are feeling something for her. I think stopping everything or backing off from everything, would make her read more into things.

[sumdude]

Well, give it a shot. Ya never know.

 

I'll bet even money that nothing changes though. She might finally feel like it's all okay now.

[a4a]

Did not work for me....... H stopped initiation so I just released him of any feeling of obligation to initiate......

 

What worked is confronting the issue head on without blame..... I need, I want, I am hurt, started out the sentences to let him know.

 

But in my case he was just lazy, not a matter of not wanting sex, but got comfy in me doing all the work to get it going.

 

I find if you let go of sex all together you kinda just don't want it any more with that person..... you have to work to keep sex hot and wanted IMHO.

[PandorasBox]

But in my case he was just lazy, not a matter of not wanting sex, but got comfy in me doing all the work to get it going.

 

I find if you let go of sex all together you kinda just don't want it any more with that person..... you have to work to keep sex hot and wanted IMHO.

 

 

I totally agree with this. When I was married it was pretty much like this with me and my now ex husband. Except it was me who became lazy and got comfortable. I no longer wanted to intiate things or even try at all. I depended upon him to get things started so to speak. He didn't like it at all, hell who wouldn't. I also discovered later on that because of my lack of involvement and laziness about sex, he went after it some place else. He wanted someone who wanted him, and showed it, not a lazy person who could take it or leave it. Yes I blame myself for some of the things that happened in the marriage. I might could have prevented that affair had I not gotten lazy, but he was also an a$$h$le and a dificult man to live with, so even had I not been lazy in the bedroom department, in my case the marraige would have probably ended anyway. I say do what you feel works for you.

[Mz. Pixie]

There is another board that if you want the name of Pm me. There is a whole group of people who consider their spouses to be refusers sexually. From what I've been able to tell by reading their posts, this tactic does not work.

[Pink_Tulip]

James- does your wife know how important this is to you? Does she want to work on increasing the sex in your marriage? If so, I'd say definately don't do this.

 

Let me share a personal story. A few months after my son was born, my H asked for sex, as he regularly did, lol. I was tired from looking after a newborn and turned him down. He said OK, but got a very depressed look in his eye, so I questioned him about it. He said it was b/c we hadn't had sex in a long time. I said, in all seriousness, 'didn't we JUST have sex like two days ago???' He looked at me like I was insane (which, considering the sleep deprivation a newborn brings on, I probaby qualified ), pulled out his electric calander, and showed it to me. Unbeknownst to me, he put little teeny hearts on the days we had sex. It had been two weeks. And then another two weeks before that. I was honestly, seriously, shocked. Since, at that time, sex wasn't important to me, I really didn't realize how much we WEREN'T doing it. I was getting more than I needed, so I wasn't thinking about it at all. Once I saw the actual proof in front of me, it really helped me to keep track of it on my own, to make sure H was getting enough, until my hormones got back to normal and took over the 'record keeping.'

 

The point is, I see in a lot of these threads that men assume that when women don't have sex, we do it out of some sort of purposeful manipulation. As you can see, at least from my story, that is not always, and I'd venture to guess, not usually, the case. Women just don't have the biological drive that men do (for the most part) so we don't think about it as often. We need other ways to keep it in our heads so we don't neglect our H's. Now since I have hit my 30's, I don't need any calander, lol, but when I was in my 20's and my drive was lower, little hearts really helped me stay on track with keeping my H's needs met. Maybe your wife really wants to meet your needs, but seriously just doesn't think about it as much as you do, and needs a little calander with hearts herself.

 

Please talk about this with her. If my H just stopped coming on to me and grabbing my boob out of the blue, my feelings would be really hurt, especially if I didn't know why it stopped. Then I'd get resentful, wondering if he is cheating... seems like you would be causing more problems than you would be fixing. You two have come SO FAR already, I just don't see this as helping. Just my two cents.

[JamesM]

Thanks for the input.

 

Does she know how I feel? I can't imagine she forgot our two AM talk in April. It changed things dramatically for us for about four months. DO I dare tell her again like that? No. I don't want it to always be a dramatic talk to get things going. Nor do I want it to become me selfishly wanting sex. Obviously, she hasn't the interest that I do. How far do I go to keep it on her mind?

 

Laying off sex may actually cause her some feelings of rejection. Would this not make her "chase" me a bit to get me after her again? I get the feeling that I am a pest about sex and this causes her to well, swat me away like a fly. And then it becomes either pity sex, obligatory sex, or flat out "I am tired...don't you see all that I have done today?"

 

a4a, as a woman, I think you do have an edge at giving him the talk. Even if men are not interested, they do have a biological urge that can be turned on much quicker than a woman. (In another thread, you said you would tell me about how to be better if I started a thread. I did but it was cancelled).

 

Pink Tulip, I don't think she wants to work on improving the sex in our marriage. The only reason she wants sex is to once in awhile to make me happy. I want her to want to have sex with me. Am I fat? No. Six foot, 190 lbs. Am I handsome...no different than before. Have I been a "bad" husband? Based on her compliments periodically, based on her saying she misses me when she is at work, and based on her wanting to spend time with me...no. I used to keep track of our sex life. Am I good at sex? Would you be if you didn't get practice? I could go back a few years and tell you how many times we did it monthly and for the year. I don't want her to think I am keeping score, nor do I want her to do it, so I can make a mark in my book. I want her to feel that desire. I am almost to the point of let her think I am cheating. I know I am not, so I am curious what her feelings would be if she thought I was.

 

Pandora, I am going to quote you. This is exactly how I feel. This is why I am afraid that I COULD cheat, and take every effort to avoid it.

He wanted someone who wanted him, and showed it, not a lazy person who could take it or leave it.

 

Thanks for any help and ideas. Hopefully this is a rough patch.

[Pink_Tulip]

Well James, if she seriously understands how you feel and what sex means to you and still chooses not to work harder to meet your needs, I honestly have no answers for you.

 

I guess it is just hard for me to believe she totally gets it and still denies you. When I found out my H was keeping track of sex, I didn't take offense at all. I guess its b/c I knew my H wasn't doing it to keep some proverbial score, but b/c it was important to him, and I could just imagine him pulling out his calander, looking at his little hearts, and giggling like a school boy. Hard to get mad at that. Plus, there were times when things really picked up and there was a heart on almost every day of the month, he would pull it out and show it to me and say, 'look at that! who's the man?!' You know, we women do have a sense of humor, and we do love seeing our H's happy and giddy and fulfilled. When I needed to keep track myself to make sure H was getting enough, I didn't feel like it was obligatory or pity sex, I felt like I was protecting my marriage. I am sure my H didn't always feel like rubbing my back or feet, but I sure didn't turn it down.

 

Does your wife really know? I mean REALLY? I just can't wrap my head around her understanding and still not trying. I am sorry, I just can't make sense of that. B/c if that is true, what kind of a marriage is that? How can one partner do that to the other and expect the other to just happily agree?? Lol, sorry, don't mean to go off on a rant on your thread.

 

I am still against the pulling back part tho, just b/c, what if it backfires? What if she doesn't notice, but you end up losing some affection for her? It will make you more susceptible to an affair. I just have this vision of you meeting someone else and then telling your wife exactly why you are leaving, and having her crying and so upset, asking why didn't you tell her than in the first place, you know? Maybe I am being naive.

[StayClose]

I think it depends on why the "low interest" partner has low interest.

 

In some cases, withholding sex or rationing it out is a control game. In these cases, a high interest partner dropping all interest would make the game player feel like they have lost power, and they may suddenly become interested again.

 

But if it is truely a case of non-existant libido, then the low interest partner won't miss anything if the advances stop. They may even welcome the lack of pressure to have sex. I think the people who go for more than a year of no sex tend to fall into the later catagory.

[tanbark813]

The point is, I see in a lot of these threads that men assume that when women don't have sex, we do it out of some sort of purposeful manipulation. As you can see, at least from my story, that is not always, and I'd venture to guess, not usually, the case. Women just don't have the biological drive that men do (for the most part) so we don't think about it as often. We need other ways to keep it in our heads so we don't neglect our H's. Now since I have hit my 30's, I don't need any calander, lol, but when I was in my 20's and my drive was lower, little hearts really helped me stay on track with keeping my H's needs met. Maybe your wife really wants to meet your needs, but seriously just doesn't think about it as much as you do, and needs a little calander with hearts herself.

 

Actually, I would argue that most men don't think their wives are being purposely manipulative. That's part of the pain of rejection is that it's a pretty big blow to the self-esteem to have your gf/wife not even think about having sex with you. Some might say that's worse than her purposely withholding.

 

The thing is, there's a bit of a double standard in saying that women need to be taught to meet their man's sexual needs. From the beginning of dating, guys get it drilled into their heads to call, bring flowers, buy jewelry, be a gentleman, listen to her talk about her day, etc... There is much more pressure on men to know how to meet a woman's needs emotionally than there is on women to know how to meet a man's needs sexually.

 

Look at some of the responses on these types of threads. If the man isn't meeting his wife's emotional needs, then he's in the wrong and needs to change. But if the wife isn't meeting the husband's needs, then he's somehow still in the wrong for not teaching her.

 

Women need to learn how to meet a man's needs. They need to take it upon themselves and be responsible for that part of the relationship and not expect to be led around by the hand. Mz Pixie makes a number of good posts about this in a similar thread from stoopid_guy.

[Pink_Tulip]

Actually, I would argue that most men don't think their wives are being purposely manipulative. That's part of the pain of rejection is that it's a pretty big blow to the self-esteem to have your gf/wife not even think about having sex with you. Some might say that's worse than her purposely withholding.

 

The thing is, there's a bit of a double standard in saying that women need to be taught to meet their man's sexual needs. From the beginning of dating, guys get it drilled into their heads to call, bring flowers, buy jewelry, be a gentleman, listen to her talk about her day, etc... There is much more pressure on men to know how to meet a woman's needs emotionally than there is on women to know how to meet a man's needs sexually.

 

Look at some of the responses on these types of threads. If the man isn't meeting his wife's emotional needs, then he's in the wrong and needs to change. But if the wife isn't meeting the husband's needs, then he's somehow still in the wrong for not teaching her.

 

Women need to learn how to meet a man's needs. They need to take it upon themselves and be responsible for that part of the relationship and not expect to be led around by the hand. Mz Pixie makes a number of good posts about this in a similar thread from stoopid_guy.

 

And where should a woman learn this? Who should teach her? How is she going to know there is anything she needs to learn unless her H TALKS TO HER about it?? I made the point in another thread that woman are trained from birth to believe that all men are pigs who only want one thing. Just watch MTV for two minutes and that will be what is shown. So when a woman is married and her H comes to her asking for sex, what do you think the automatic response is? Where is this new information supposed to come from? Yes women need to learn, but if your attitude toward your wife is, 'screw you, I had to figure it out alone, now you do too,' I foresee many sexless nights. Marriage is about communication and learning from eachother.

 

And where do men learn that women want someone to talk to, they want to be validated by their men, etc? They learn it from women. We are very good at making our needs clear. All I am saying is, men need to be equally clear. I don't understand why you are disagreeing with this?

 

And please reread what Ms Pixie has said. She has proven my point. She did NOT know all this until she learned from her current H. And b/c her H was very clear in explaining his needs, feelings, and thoughts on sex, she got it. How is that opposed to anything I have said thus far? I don't think I understand the point you were trying to make in this regard.

[tanbark813]

And where should a woman learn this? Who should teach her? How is she going to know there is anything she needs to learn unless her H TALKS TO HER about it?? I made the point in another thread that woman are trained from birth to believe that all men are pigs who only want one thing. Just watch MTV for two minutes and that will be what is shown. So when a woman is married and her H comes to her asking for sex, what do you think the automatic response is? Where is this new information supposed to come from? Yes women need to learn, but if your attitude toward your wife is, 'screw you, I had to figure it out alone, now you do too,' I foresee many sexless nights. Marriage is about communication and learning from eachother.

 

And where do men learn that women want someone to talk to, they want to be validated by their men, etc? They learn it from women. We are very good at making our needs clear. All I am saying is, men need to be equally clear. I don't understand why you are disagreeing with this?

 

And please reread what Ms Pixie has said. She has proven my point. She did NOT know all this until she learned from her current H. And b/c her H was very clear in explaining his needs, feelings, and thoughts on sex, she got it. How is that opposed to anything I have said thus far? I don't think I understand the point you were trying to make in this regard.

 

For the record, I don't have a wife and haven't had this problem, I'm just speaking from a general male viewpoint.

 

The bolded part is part of the point I'm trying to make. And that notion doesn't come only from MTV, it can also come from a girl's parents, friends, whomever. I absolutely agree that women are going to learn this from men. But, as in your example, Mz Pixie didn't learn about how to meet a man's needs until after her marriage/divorce. In the case of the OP, his wife doesn't know how to satisfy his needs and if she learns, it will once again be late in her life.

 

But when do men first hear about meeting women's emotional needs? MUCH earlier than after they're married. A guy hears that from the first time he starts dating as a teenager. He gets advice about meeting a woman's emotional needs from parents, friends, etc... He knows about the importance of that long before he's in the situation of a loveless/sexless marriage and most guys will put in the effort to figure out what women want.

 

Do women hear about meeting a man's needs from the time they start dating? Hell no. And it's partially out of fear of them becoming a teenage mother. But that's the point I was trying to make is that society as a whole places more emphasis on men being able to meet women's needs than vice versa.

 

I'm not saying that the OP shouldn't talk to his wife now. He pretty much has to at this point. What I was trying to say is that if women like the OP's wife took it upon themselves to learn more about meeting a man's needs, you wouldn't run into as many situations as this.

[a4a]

Do women hear about meeting a man's needs from the time they start dating? Hell no. And it's partially out of fear of them becoming a teenage mother. But that's the point I was trying to make is that society as a whole places more emphasis on men being able to meet women's needs than vice versa.

 

I'm not saying that the OP shouldn't talk to his wife now. He pretty much has to at this point. What I was trying to say is that if women like the OP's wife took it upon themselves to learn more about meeting a man's needs, you wouldn't run into as many situations as this.

 

Wow see in my R it is completely the opposite.

 

I guess I try to meet the needs of others in general in my life so I know and figured out this early on

 

 

MEN LIKE SEX, MAKE MAN HAPPY, GIVE MAN SEX........

 

but in my M my H could go without sex for months.... it is secondary to him. Once a week would suffice or even maybe once every 2 months.

 

And I don't think men are all that aware minus the flowers and jewelry about what really makes a woman satisfied in a R. (As seen on TV lessons in love)

[tanbark813]

Wow see in my R it is completely the opposite.

 

I guess I try to meet the needs of others in general in my life so I know and figured out this early on

 

 

MEN LIKE SEX, MAKE MAN HAPPY, GIVE MAN SEX........

 

but in my M my H could go without sex for months.... it is secondary to him. Once a week would suffice or even maybe once every 2 months.

 

And I don't think men are all that aware minus the flowers and jewelry about what really makes a woman satisfied in a R. (As seen on TV lessons in love)

 

Yeah, I'm not trying to make a Wogglefied post about "all men this" or "all women that". There are, of course, going to be exceptions on either side. But in general, men should learn to be more romantic, and women should learn to want to f**k more.

[StayClose]

But when do men first hear about meeting women's emotional needs? MUCH earlier than after they're married. A guy hears that from the first time he starts dating as a teenager. He gets advice about meeting a woman's emotional needs from parents, friends, etc... He knows about the importance of that long before he's in the situation of a loveless/sexless marriage and most guys will put in the effort to figure out what women want.

 

Not me, I didn't learn about this until after I met my wife. I guess that's why I had a tough time dating. Maybe that's because I'm was the oldest kid in my family and my sister is four years younger (I've read that men who had older sisters while growing up get along better with women).

 

Not necissarily in LS, but in the bigger culture there's a bias against men. Men who cheat are viewed in a worse light than wives who refuse to have sex. About a year ago, sex columnist Dan Savage published two letters from readers complaining that their spouses didn't want to have sex with them. There was an interesting difference between the responses to the two letters. To the man whose wife wouldn't put out, they wrote that he needed to be more romantic, do more housework, or work out and get in better shape. To the woman who husband didn't want to have sex, they wrote that he's either having an affair or is secretly gay. In other words, whichever spouse isn't getting enough, it's the man's fault.

[Guest]

Not me, I didn't learn about this until after I met my wife. I guess that's why I had a tough time dating. Maybe that's because I'm was the oldest kid in my family and my sister is four years younger (I've read that men who had older sisters while growing up get along better with women).

 

Not necissarily in LS, but in the bigger culture there's a bias against men. Men who cheat are viewed in a worse light than wives who refuse to have sex. About a year ago, sex columnist Dan Savage published two letters from readers complaining that their spouses didn't want to have sex with them. There was an interesting difference between the responses to the two letters. To the man whose wife wouldn't put out, they wrote that he needed to be more romantic, do more housework, or work out and get in better shape. To the woman who husband didn't want to have sex, they wrote that he's either having an affair or is secretly gay. In other words, whichever spouse isn't getting enough, it's the man's fault.

 

You know and there are a lot of people dumb enough to believe that too.

[Pink_Tulip]

For the record, I don't have a wife and haven't had this problem, I'm just speaking from a general male viewpoint.

 

The bolded part is part of the point I'm trying to make. And that notion doesn't come only from MTV, it can also come from a girl's parents, friends, whomever. I absolutely agree that women are going to learn this from men. But, as in your example, Mz Pixie didn't learn about how to meet a man's needs until after her marriage/divorce. In the case of the OP, his wife doesn't know how to satisfy his needs and if she learns, it will once again be late in her life.

 

But when do men first hear about meeting women's emotional needs? MUCH earlier than after they're married. A guy hears that from the first time he starts dating as a teenager. He gets advice about meeting a woman's emotional needs from parents, friends, etc... He knows about the importance of that long before he's in the situation of a loveless/sexless marriage and most guys will put in the effort to figure out what women want.

 

Do women hear about meeting a man's needs from the time they start dating? Hell no. And it's partially out of fear of them becoming a teenage mother. But that's the point I was trying to make is that society as a whole places more emphasis on men being able to meet women's needs than vice versa.

 

I'm not saying that the OP shouldn't talk to his wife now. He pretty much has to at this point. What I was trying to say is that if women like the OP's wife took it upon themselves to learn more about meeting a man's needs, you wouldn't run into as many situations as this.

 

Maybe the misunderstanding is on me, but I feel like we agree on everything, yet you still seem to think I don't get it? I guess thats the problem with words on a computer screen.

 

I understand that women are conditioned from a very young age to believe sex is all about men. I WAS one of those women. I was simply using MTV as an obvious example. The thing about ms pixie is, isn't what we are trying to do here is to get James and all the other guys in this situation help their wives understand this BEFORE the divorce? You keep saying the women need to take it upon themselves to learn about a mans needs. What I am saying is, most of these women don't realize they DON'T know they are missing a piece of the puzzle, so how in the world can they be expected to go out and learn it on their own? And I know you didn't mean to generalize, but my H and I almost got divorced over his refusal to give a crap about my needs. And he feels terrible about it now. He didn't do it maliciously, he just didn't know better. Just like these women don't know any better.

 

The issue is, how can a man tactfully educate his wife about the importance of sex without coming off like a stereotypical pig? How can a woman talk to her husband about her emotional needs without coming off like a whiny bitch? We have become this society where every relationship is a power struggle. A person can't have a need or express a fear or concern without the other person immediately crying that they are being controlled or something equally ridiculous. No wonder divorce rate is so high. Everyone wants to talk, no one wants to listen. Very sad.

[tanbark813]

Maybe the misunderstanding is on me, but I feel like we agree on everything, yet you still seem to think I don't get it? I guess thats the problem with words on a computer screen.

 

I understand that women are conditioned from a very young age to believe sex is all about men. I WAS one of those women. I was simply using MTV as an obvious example. The thing about ms pixie is, isn't what we are trying to do here is to get James and all the other guys in this situation help their wives understand this BEFORE the divorce? You keep saying the women need to take it upon themselves to learn about a mans needs. What I am saying is, most of these women don't realize they DON'T know they are missing a piece of the puzzle, so how in the world can they be expected to go out and learn it on their own? And I know you didn't mean to generalize, but my H and I almost got divorced over his refusal to give a crap about my needs. And he feels terrible about it now. He didn't do it maliciously, he just didn't know better. Just like these women don't know any better.

 

The issue is, how can a man tactfully educate his wife about the importance of sex without coming off like a stereotypical pig? How can a woman talk to her husband about her emotional needs without coming off like a whiny bitch? We have become this society where every relationship is a power struggle. A person can't have a need or express a fear or concern without the other person immediately crying that they are being controlled or something equally ridiculous. No wonder divorce rate is so high. Everyone wants to talk, no one wants to listen. Very sad.

 

I didn't say you didn't get it. The only thing I really disagreed with you initially is what you said about men thinking women are being purposely manipulative when they don't want to have sex. I don't think that's the case.

 

I'm not saying the OP shouldn't bring the issue up, nor am I saying that men and women shouldn't talk to each other about their needs. I was speaking more idealistically saying that, in general, in society and dating there is more emphasis placed on meeting women's needs than men's. That's not to say all men understand how to do that, or all women don't.

 

So yeah, I guess if women are never informed that they're missing a piece of the puzzle, then they can't really know how to take it upon themselves to learn. But, there have been a number of threads on this site where guys have talked to their wives only to have them accuse them as just objectifying them, only being interested in sex, blah, blah, blah, and getting defensive about the issue without really listening. Then the guy goes off and cheats and the wife acts all surprised when she really has no grounds to be.

[norajane]

But, there have been a number of threads on this site where guys have talked to their wives only to have them accuse them as just objectifying them, only being interested in sex, blah, blah, blah, and getting defensive about the issue without really listening. Then the guy goes off and cheats and the wife acts all surprised when she really has no grounds to be.

 

I think a lot of those misunderstandings stem from what men need sex for.

 

Women grow up learning that men just want sex for sex's sake. That sex for men is not about love and intimacy...it's just sex, take it or leave it. What I've learned here at LS is that men - once they are in a committed relationship - need sex for love and intimacy.

 

But because that's contrary to everything women have learned about men and sex, unless a man makes it crystal clear to her that he needs sex for love and intimacy and to feel close to her, she's likely to continue thinking that he's just horny and she's merely an available outlet.

[tanbark813]

But because that's contrary to everything women have learned about men and sex, unless a man makes it crystal clear to her that he needs sex for love and intimacy and to feel close to her, she's likely to continue thinking that he's just horny and she's merely an available outlet.

 

If a man marries a woman, she can safely assume the sex is associated with love and intimacy. Were she only an available outlet and no emotions were involved, she would never move past f**k buddy status.

[norajane]

If a man marries a woman, she can safely assume the sex is associated with love and intimacy. Were she only an available outlet and no emotions were involved, she would never move past f**k buddy status.

 

It's not that simple. What can she safely assume if there are problems in the marriage? How does she know that when her hubby is a workaholic and is hardly ever around, for example, that he continues to associate sex with love and intimacy and hasn't reverted to seeing her as an outlet for "just sex"? If he's not meeting her emotional needs or need for affection or attention, how can she assume that he needs her for more than just sex.

[Pink_Tulip]

If a man marries a woman, she can safely assume the sex is associated with love and intimacy. Were she only an available outlet and no emotions were involved, she would never move past f**k buddy status.

 

First off, thanks for clearing that up earlier! Second, this is another piece of the puzzle that men miss. How can a woman assume sex is more to her husband, if she doesn't know that sex is EVER more than a physical need? B/c until your H makes that clear, we honestly don't know that. Where in society do we teach this to girls? I know I was certainly never taught this. Even my own husband was not able to articulate it- I learned by reading stuff on the internet. Our entire society is F*ed up about how we view sex and intimacy within the confines of a committed relationship. We glorify promiscuity to ridiculous proportions, then get mad when women don't understand sex is more to men than just getting off? How can any woman just automatically understand that hypocrisy? Both men and women end up screwed over these stereotypes in the end.

 

And another question for you- you said you disagreed with me that men assume women are being purposefully manipulative about sex. If that is true, then why aren't men brutally honest? If men see that women aren't having sex simply b/c they don't get how important the need is, where is the conversation that clears that up? Do you think James' wife doesn't get it, or do you think she is being manipulative? I am curious about your view on this. Maybe my own bias has tainted my view, but when I read much of what the men write, I see it as they imply their wives get it, and just choose not to participate, if that makes sense.