is it really ALL me?

[Crystal]

i am just tired of feeling like i'm the one who has to do all the changing in this relationship. like he is ever so perfect and i dont need to change anything!

 

i am just trying hard to make things work, but it seems i am the one who has to do everything!

 

i am have to go along with what he wants me to do, what he thinks is right, what he thinks i should do, blah, blah, blah.

 

as long as i do everything right then things are just fine. but if i veer off the beaten path then he gets mad at me for not conforming i guess.

 

either way it seems that when we get into a fight it seems to be mostly always my fight.

 

then i tell myself, i am leaving here i am tired of this crap, im outta here!

 

then i hear this dammed voice in my head telling me that i'm not trying hard enough, that if i do this different, if i do that different, if i didnt piss him off, if i didnt get jealous, if i just would do everything right then he would not get mad at me!!!

 

is this right??? i'm really confused i just dont know if i should have to keep conforming to what he thinks i should and shouldnt do to keep peace.

 

i know alot of what he says is right, i know that there are things i should do different to keep peace but is it right to have to have him get mad at me if i dont?

 

i see his point on alot of things but may not agree with him but if i dont do what i'm suppose todo then he gets mad, it's almost like he is my father and i am the child.

 

am i really that bad off? i just dont know, i wish those dumb voices in my head would just leave me alone when i want to leave and quit telling me that i'm not trying hard enough, when is it ever going to be enough to the point that the voice in my head will say, 'good job' you have tried your best and still it is not successful, now you may leave with a clean conscious? does that day ever come for anybody?

 

or am i doomed to a life of struggling to make things right, never feeling they are right unless i live by his code of ethics?

[quankanne]

from reading your post, I take it your guy likes to be in control. And unless you're an unfeeling lump of clay with no mind of your own, this is not a good situation for you to remain in.

 

No one is perfect. Not you, not me, not our significant others, not our families, not our friends, yadda yadda yadda. When we see that our "imperfections" are hurting ourselves or others, we usually try to fix them so so that we don't hurt the ones we care about. But constantly telling someone he/she is not perfect and then expecting that person to conform to your ideas of perfection the way your boyfriend is doing is just flat-out WRONG. When someone keeps doing that, that peron is being controlling, not caring. When you say that the "damned voice" in your head tells you that you're not trying hard enough, that if you did things differently and didn't piss him off or make yourself jealous, you're pretty much telling us that you've bought into the crap he's feeding you. And that's no good.

 

Maybe there IS a problem with you, but that's something YOU have to identify. Meanwhile, there's another problem you need to figure out how to address, and that's his controlling nature. To what extent are you going to have to jump through hoops just to please him? Do you really want to be stuck in a relationship where you have to conform to someone else's ideal, then find there's hell to pay when you don't?

 

Personally, I don't think that kind of high-maintenence relationship is worth the effort, but that's just me.

[kelly72]

wow, me and you are in the same exact boat. thats weird! wish i had an answer for ya, but considering that im stressed with the same worries as you, i have no good answer! its like these guys think WE are the source of ALL problems because WE cant lighten up or something....ITS SOOOO STUPID.

i am just tired of feeling like i'm the one who has to do all the changing in this relationship. like he is ever so perfect and i dont need to change anything! i am just trying hard to make things work, but it seems i am the one who has to do everything!

 

i am have to go along with what he wants me to do, what he thinks is right, what he thinks i should do, blah, blah, blah. as long as i do everything right then things are just fine. but if i veer off the beaten path then he gets mad at me for not conforming i guess.

 

either way it seems that when we get into a fight it seems to be mostly always my fight.

 

then i tell myself, i am leaving here i am tired of this crap, im outta here! then i hear this dammed voice in my head telling me that i'm not trying hard enough, that if i do this different, if i do that different, if i didnt piss him off, if i didnt get jealous, if i just would do everything right then he would not get mad at me!!! is this right??? i'm really confused i just dont know if i should have to keep conforming to what he thinks i should and shouldnt do to keep peace. i know alot of what he says is right, i know that there are things i should do different to keep peace but is it right to have to have him get mad at me if i dont? i see his point on alot of things but may not agree with him but if i dont do what i'm suppose todo then he gets mad, it's almost like he is my father and i am the child. am i really that bad off? i just dont know, i wish those dumb voices in my head would just leave me alone when i want to leave and quit telling me that i'm not trying hard enough, when is it ever going to be enough to the point that the voice in my head will say, 'good job' you have tried your best and still it is not successful, now you may leave with a clean conscious? does that day ever come for anybody? or am i doomed to a life of struggling to make things right, never feeling they are right unless i live by his code of ethics?

[m00nstruck]

My Grandma's motto in life was something along the lines of "if something bothers you, do something about it. if you don't do something about it, don't complain". I think it applies to lots in life. If you see your relationship as so one-sided and you feel you are the only making any effort but you don't see your guy pulling his weight then what choice do you have but to leave the relationship? If you can't see yourself leaving the relationship then that is a choice you make to stay and you just have to endure things.

 

If you feel that your the only one trying and you stay around despite your unhappiness then your sending him a message that you think the relationship is fine. If he believes you think things are good then what would motivate him to change?

 

If you don't like the way things are and you've given him plenty of time to work with you at things but he still doesn't, then why would you even want to stay? And don't say it is because you love him because you cannot truly love someone if you are as frustrated and angry as you express. No relationship is perfect but based on what youve written it doesn't sound like a relationship at all.

 

There are many other fish in the sea. Why settle for less? Why waste your time and life on someone who is not the right person for you? Sounds like you need someone who has more things in common with you, in terms of what's necessary to make a good relationship. Why stay with someone who appears to be someone that will never be the kind of man you'll truly be happy with? Part of this is his fault and the rest is your fault: for tolerating all of these things that you find wrong and unfair. If he is not forcing you to stay with him then you are doing so by free choice and if you don't like it, then do leave. WHy be miserable? Or try a trial separation and spend a couple months living apart and see if that will give you both some time to re-evaluate your relationship. Have you ever considered doing that?

i am just tired of feeling like i'm the one who has to do all the changing in this relationship. like he is ever so perfect and i dont need to change anything! i am just trying hard to make things work, but it seems i am the one who has to do everything!

 

i am have to go along with what he wants me to do, what he thinks is right, what he thinks i should do, blah, blah, blah. as long as i do everything right then things are just fine. but if i veer off the beaten path then he gets mad at me for not conforming i guess.

 

either way it seems that when we get into a fight it seems to be mostly always my fight.

 

then i tell myself, i am leaving here i am tired of this crap, im outta here! then i hear this dammed voice in my head telling me that i'm not trying hard enough, that if i do this different, if i do that different, if i didnt piss him off, if i didnt get jealous, if i just would do everything right then he would not get mad at me!!! is this right??? i'm really confused i just dont know if i should have to keep conforming to what he thinks i should and shouldnt do to keep peace. i know alot of what he says is right, i know that there are things i should do different to keep peace but is it right to have to have him get mad at me if i dont? i see his point on alot of things but may not agree with him but if i dont do what i'm suppose todo then he gets mad, it's almost like he is my father and i am the child. am i really that bad off? i just dont know, i wish those dumb voices in my head would just leave me alone when i want to leave and quit telling me that i'm not trying hard enough, when is it ever going to be enough to the point that the voice in my head will say, 'good job' you have tried your best and still it is not successful, now you may leave with a clean conscious? does that day ever come for anybody? or am i doomed to a life of struggling to make things right, never feeling they are right unless i live by his code of ethics?

[Crystal]

all of you have given me new things to think about and i truly appreciate it!

 

the problem that i am not really able to fully express is that he somehow dont see things the way i do, according to him i am the one with all the problems.

 

he is flawless in his own eyes cause he would never miss work for any reason, or ignore the phone when it rings cause it could mean a lost sale, or stay home when your temp in only 100.

 

in other words he thinks that everyone should be like him! that cause i am the way that i am, more carefree and aloof, that i need to be more responsibile.

 

by saying what he says he thinks he is teaching me to be more responsible, while he really is giving me more reason to be more pist at his perfections.

 

he does not directly come out and say i am flawed he is perfect but his aire of arrogance drives me nuts and his sarcasm when i ask him to repeat something.

 

he just does not have time for piddly things in life, it's either one or the other but never both at one time.

 

anyway, i am taking to heart everything that everybody said. the sad thing is when i came home today he was looking up catholic churches for our supposedly upcoming wedding in july!

 

talk about feeling like dirt, that is how i felt, i just dont know what to do. how do you tell someone them acting so perfect, makes you feel so flawed?

My Grandma's motto in life was something along the lines of "if something bothers you, do something about it. if you don't do something about it, don't complain". I think it applies to lots in life. If you see your relationship as so one-sided and you feel you are the only making any effort but you don't see your guy pulling his weight then what choice do you have but to leave the relationship? If you can't see yourself leaving the relationship then that is a choice you make to stay and you just have to endure things.

 

If you feel that your the only one trying and you stay around despite your unhappiness then your sending him a message that you think the relationship is fine. If he believes you think things are good then what would motivate him to change? If you don't like the way things are and you've given him plenty of time to work with you at things but he still doesn't, then why would you even want to stay? And don't say it is because you love him because you cannot truly love someone if you are as frustrated and angry as you express. No relationship is perfect but based on what youve written it doesn't sound like a relationship at all. There are many other fish in the sea. Why settle for less? Why waste your time and life on someone who is not the right person for you? Sounds like you need someone who has more things in common with you, in terms of what's necessary to make a good relationship. Why stay with someone who appears to be someone that will never be the kind of man you'll truly be happy with? Part of this is his fault and the rest is your fault: for tolerating all of these things that you find wrong and unfair. If he is not forcing you to stay with him then you are doing so by free choice and if you don't like it, then do leave. WHy be miserable? Or try a trial separation and spend a couple months living apart and see if that will give you both some time to re-evaluate your relationship. Have you ever considered doing that?

[m00nstruck]

Good grief, if you two are planning to marry in the near future, that is scary stuff. You obviously have alot of resentment toward him for how he treats you and how he makes you feel. You have no business marrying him. Problems present prior to marriage intensity 100 times after marriage and then it's not so easy to imagine just picking up and leaving.

 

You owe it to him to sit down and tell him how you feel and tell him that until things can be worked out, you cannot marry him. If you do marry him as things stand now, then your marriage is a farce and it will be based on secrets (your not telling how you feel, like what you've written here), resentments and mistruths (or no truth). The fact that he's looking into wedding plans indicates to me that he thinks things are going well. Are you really communicating to him that you are this unhappy? You can't expect him to read your mind. There is no point telling us how you feel if you don't tell it to him. He is the one you will walk down the aisle with. He is the one you will be making a lifetime commitment to.

 

If he makes you feel so bad about yourself then why on earth do you stay? Your not desperate are you?

 

What about a trial separation?

all of you have given me new things to think about and i truly appreciate it! the problem that i am not really able to fully express is that he somehow dont see things the way i do, according to him i am the one with all the problems. he is flawless in his own eyes cause he would never miss work for any reason, or ignore the phone when it rings cause it could mean a lost sale, or stay home when your temp in only 100.

 

in other words he thinks that everyone should be like him! that cause i am the way that i am, more carefree and aloof, that i need to be more responsibile. by saying what he says he thinks he is teaching me to be more responsible, while he really is giving me more reason to be more pist at his perfections.

 

he does not directly come out and say i am flawed he is perfect but his aire of arrogance drives me nuts and his sarcasm when i ask him to repeat something. he just does not have time for piddly things in life, it's either one or the other but never both at one time. anyway, i am taking to heart everything that everybody said. the sad thing is when i came home today he was looking up catholic churches for our supposedly upcoming wedding in july! talk about feeling like dirt, that is how i felt, i just dont know what to do. how do you tell someone them acting so perfect, makes you feel so flawed?

[Crystal]

there is noooo waaaay i am going to get married to him with the way things are right now.

 

he knows that i am unhappy about somethings but he does not seem to think that anything is his problem that things are just my problem that i am in my head too much..

 

since i am divorced about five years ago and he is catholic i am lutheran, but i dont practice a lutheran faith, in fact i want to convert to catholic as well.

 

but there are classes we have to take for six weeks before we could get married in a catholic church and i told him today that we NEEEED! to take those classes and he agreed.

 

there is no way i would get married feeling the way i feel and with the way things are right now.

 

i guess you are right that i really need to talk to him but i dont honestly know what to tell him. he knows that i am not happy with this little sarcastic snips, or his arrogant attutude still they continue so i think that is part of his personality that i have to decide to live with or not.

 

thank you for your help, you have been very helpful and honest, you are very wise and i appreciate your thoughts as well. thank you again.

Good grief, if you two are planning to marry in the near future, that is scary stuff. You obviously have alot of resentment toward him for how he treats you and how he makes you feel. You have no business marrying him. Problems present prior to marriage intensity 100 times after marriage and then it's not so easy to imagine just picking up and leaving. You owe it to him to sit down and tell him how you feel and tell him that until things can be worked out, you cannot marry him. If you do marry him as things stand now, then your marriage is a farce and it will be based on secrets (your not telling how you feel, like what you've written here), resentments and mistruths (or no truth). The fact that he's looking into wedding plans indicates to me that he thinks things are going well. Are you really communicating to him that you are this unhappy? You can't expect him to read your mind. There is no point telling us how you feel if you don't tell it to him. He is the one you will walk down the aisle with. He is the one you will be making a lifetime commitment to.

 

If he makes you feel so bad about yourself then why on earth do you stay? Your not desperate are you? What about a trial separation?

[velvet]

i am just tired of feeling like i'm the one who has to do all the changing in this relationship. like he is ever so perfect and i dont need to change anything! i am just trying hard to make things work, but it seems i am the one who has to do everything!

 

i am have to go along with what he wants me to do, what he thinks is right, what he thinks i should do, blah, blah, blah. as long as i do everything right then things are just fine. but if i veer off the beaten path then he gets mad at me for not conforming i guess.

 

either way it seems that when we get into a fight it seems to be mostly always my fight.

 

then i tell myself, i am leaving here i am tired of this crap, im outta here! then i hear this dammed voice in my head telling me that i'm not trying hard enough, that if i do this different, if i do that different, if i didnt piss him off, if i didnt get jealous, if i just would do everything right then he would not get mad at me!!! is this right??? i'm really confused i just dont know if i should have to keep conforming to what he thinks i should and shouldnt do to keep peace. i know alot of what he says is right, i know that there are things i should do different to keep peace but is it right to have to have him get mad at me if i dont?

 

Men and Women, we think so differently. It is a fact that men look at women to change. Why? I dont know that yet, but Im working on it. But it is a fact that men feel its the womens job to change whatever the problem is.

 

I suggest you ask someone who has observed you both and give you an opinion on what they see.

 

In the mean time, how do you feel about what your b/f wants to change about you. Is it a postive change? Would it make life a little better for YOU? Knowing that its hard to change things about us, does the grass look greener on the other side? Even if you struggle with whatever changes, if you think that it would be a postive change you can benefit from, than keep working at it. Sometimes it takes years to change things about us that we weve lived with our whole lives.

[Crystal]

ya know a really weird thing happens when i've wanted to leave. through the winter when i have literally packed my things, clothes and pictures that is all i own, and the sky could be a clear blue, and within minutes it would start to snow!!!

 

i am NOT kidding here either! it's like some force would want me to stay here and prevent me from leaving. i am not talking a light snow but almost blizzard conditions where one would be foolish to travel in.

 

so i thought when it gets warmer then what? what could possibly happen then to keep me here? well guess it what? something did happen both the last times that i was going to leave the next day or so.

 

i had bad dreams that involved fatal accidents! last night being the most recent as i thought i would leave today when i got my pay checks.

 

so what happens? i had three (3) fatal motrocycle accidents in one dream! i could not believe this! in the dream i was leaving towards where i was going to go and ran into a long line of cars backed up on the interstate but still had enough time and room to do a u-turn to avoid the accident.

 

is that a coincidence or what? maybe you dont believe in things like that, but i never really did either until so many of them came up when i was ready and wanting to leave!

 

i think some unseen force is at work here, i really do, maybe it is so i stay and learn and grow and change from all this, maybe there really isnt anything out there for me to go to, maybe this is where God wants me to be???

 

too weird i can tell you that! so today now that i am up and away from these fatal motorcycle accidents, today i am going to tell him that we NEED to set up these classes NOW and get on with things.

 

if during these classes too many conflicts come up i am going to tell him that this is not going to work. we may even have to go to mexico to get married cause he wants to get married in a catholic churche and they may not do it here cause i am divorced years ago!

 

so i've got alot to think about as always and feel right back at square one trying to work things out in my own head for my own peace of mind!

 

thanks for the eye openers! very much appreciated!

Men and Women, we think so differently. It is a fact that men look at women to change. Why? I dont know that yet, but Im working on it. But it is a fact that men feel its the womens job to change whatever the problem is. I suggest you ask someone who has observed you both and give you an opinion on what they see. In the mean time, how do you feel about what your b/f wants to change about you. Is it a postive change? Would it make life a little better for YOU? Knowing that its hard to change things about us, does the grass look greener on the other side? Even if you struggle with whatever changes, if you think that it would be a postive change you can benefit from, than keep working at it. Sometimes it takes years to change things about us that we weve lived with our whole lives.

[quankanne]

it's one thing to try to help someone better themselves by gently encouraging them, but another when you're overly critical and bossy.

 

ummmm, call me dumb, but he's looking up Catholic churches to get married in THIS summer, as in three months away? I work for the Church, and i can tell you that no priest is going to approve of a church wedding without the couple undergoing formation, like an Engaged Encounter weekend or getting a series of instruction from the priest or deacon! We see it as sort of a period where a couple REALLY gets to know each other, while teaching them how to communicate effectively with each other.

 

actually, it's kind of funny to think that your Mr. Perfect may not have gotten the church thing right, but then again, lots of couples don't realize just how seriously the Catholic church takes the sacrament of marriage.

 

Honey, he sounds like a jerk that you need to dump, fast. Not trying to be mean here, but his ego is going to cause a lot of problems if you do decide to carry on your relationship with him. Be honest with him: If he insists on assuming that he's perfect, you need to kindly point out to him that he's only being arrogant and that's not the type of person you're interested in investing a lifetime with. Maybe that'll bring him down to reality, maybe not, but your needs should be considered in this relationship, too.

[quankanne]

I read in your previous post that you're not Catholic, but he is, and that you guys already know about the instruction you have to take in order to be married in the church. However, your information is still wrong. You're right in presuming the Catholic church will not bless a marriage between you and him if in the eyes of the church one of you is married to someone else ... but mistaken in thinking that it's only the Catholic church in the States is the only one who's going to notice. The Church is universal, and any impediment to a sacramental marriage is going to be looked at. So going to Mexico isn't the answer.

 

What do you want from this relationship? It sounds like you're allowing yourself to be scared into something you innately know isn't right. Dreams are just dreams, just your conscience trying to tell you something. I say if you're dreaming about horrible motorcycle accidents, that's just you trying to scare yourself into doing something (or not doing something). How do you know that those dreams are not about your future life with this guy if you marry him, about self-destruction with this guy? As for the blizzard conditions, those sound more like a curious coincidence rather than A Message From Above.

 

Your best bet is to put your relationship on hold for the time being, and go through the RCIA program at the church; even if you don't convert, you'll at least get a better understanding of the Catholic faith and why we practice as we do... In the meanwhile, the program sponsors will help you through the annulment process in the event you do become Catholic and later want to remarry.

 

Frankly, you sound miserable, but you're allowing yourself be cowed into something you know isn't right for you, or isn't what you need right now. There's no law saying that you can't give yourself a little time to get your throughts together.

 

You say that if you stay, you learn and grow and change; that maybe there really isn't anything for you out there ... I say you're sadly mistaken. EVERY experience is a one you come away with something, and you shouldn't have to wallow in misery because you think that's the only way you'll learn. While God sometimes throws us curveballs, we have to use good counsel to make our choices, not be cowed into them. I don't think God is interested in seeing you needlessly suffering at the hands of some boor who thinks he's better than those around him (because that's how he sounds). Believe me, you deserve a better life than that!

[:)]

Yes, I agree.

 

And if he's looking into churches at this late stage of the game (late in regards to not having enough time for premarital requirements of the Catholic Church), then he's going to be in for a surprise.

 

And yes, if you're not Catholic and are divorced, it's very unlikely that the church will agree to marry you until: a) you get your previous marriage annulled..and b) you join the Catholic church. Quankanne is correct. The Catholic Church does NOT take marriage lightly, and I applaud them for that.

 

When I got married many years ago, my fiance (now ex hubby) and I had to attend a weekend-long "Engaged Encounter" as well as another weekend "Premarital Enrichment." These were absolute requirements of couples wanting to marry in the Catholic Church....and also for other churches, like Lutheran and Anglican.

 

They only have these 'weekends' every so often so you as soon as a couple gets engaged, they need to contact their local parish (church) and find out when the dates are for these weekends and register for them.

 

These weekends are a great eye-opener for many engaged couples. They are lead by married Catholic couples and a priest as well. All kinds of topics are brought up...ones that many couples may not have even discussed or thought about: money management, having a family, dealing with stress/inlaws/arguments, communication, etc etc.

 

I know that Crystal hopes that this weekend will "fix" the problems that her and her fiance have going on, but that won't be the case. A couple of weekends isn't going to fix what's going on here. Sounds to me like it will take months and months.....and even then, until she can sit down and spill the beans to her fiance about how she's really feelings (as she is able to here), there will never be any progress made. Her fiance obviously doesn't realize how unhappy she is/her constant desire to 'leave'....for if he did, I doubt he'd be looking into booking the church..instead, he'd be admitting there's a problem and talking about what constructive things they can do separately and as a COUPLE, to work through them.

 

These weekends cannot be viewed as/used as, a 'bandaid' to fix the kind of relationship problems that Crystal and her fiance have. For engaged couples that are going through as many problems and Crystal and her guy have, any priest or pastor or minister would definitely discourage them strongly from marrying. They are in no position to be entering into something as serious as marriage, at this stage of the game.

[Crystal]

roflmao! too funny! his nickname IS mr. arrogant! that was quite the coincidence..

 

when we/he started a while back ago checking into the marriage thing at the catholic church he kinda new about the classes we would have to take but not the full extent of it.

 

i told him that we need to take these classes and he is in agreement..if they help us with communication all the more better!!!

 

i know how arrogant he can be and it is so very annoying! i told him straight up today that he needs to talk 'nice' to me cause i dont like his tone of voice.

 

he pleaded ignorant so when he used 'the tone' that i'm talking about i pointed it out to him and his response was that just because he 'talks' that way does not mean he feels or acts that way.

 

he made sense i guess, but still i think it is very rude and arrogant the way he talks at times, but i am working on it now..thanks so much for your insight!

it's one thing to try to help someone better themselves by gently encouraging them, but another when you're overly critical and bossy. ummmm, call me dumb, but he's looking up Catholic churches to get married in THIS summer, as in three months away? I work for the Church, and i can tell you that no priest is going to approve of a church wedding without the couple undergoing formation, like an Engaged Encounter weekend or getting a series of instruction from the priest or deacon! We see it as sort of a period where a couple REALLY gets to know each other, while teaching them how to communicate effectively with each other. actually, it's kind of funny to think that your Mr. Perfect may not have gotten the church thing right, but then again, lots of couples don't realize just how seriously the Catholic church takes the sacrament of marriage. Honey, he sounds like a jerk that you need to dump, fast. Not trying to be mean here, but his ego is going to cause a lot of problems if you do decide to carry on your relationship with him. Be honest with him: If he insists on assuming that he's perfect, you need to kindly point out to him that he's only being arrogant and that's not the type of person you're interested in investing a lifetime with. Maybe that'll bring him down to reality, maybe not, but your needs should be considered in this relationship, too.

[Crystal]

i totally agree with everything you said! i know myself that there is nooooo waaaay at this point that i would get married in july!

 

when i got married in a lutheran church the pastor was reluctant to marry us as well cause we had not been together but a year or so.

 

i wish now i had listened to him..i am not willing nor ready to make the same mistake until my mind and my heart are in agreement!

 

i am not looking for a band aid fix either, i want this to be a lasting thing if and when it happens.

 

when i get married again it is going to be for keeps not for a year or so. at least he is willing to do counseling and the classes so that is a good sign if we got married and had future problems at least i know now that he would be willing to work things out.

 

unfortunately, he thinks that alot of the issues are my fault, like my jealousy, lack of trust, insecurity, medical problems, etc.

 

i can admit to alot of what my problems are and i am in counseling right now, the sad thing is that he thinks that most problems are from me and that he is not really to blame for much if any of it.

 

he thinks my feeling offened by his attitude is my being too sensitive, so it cant be his fault.

 

this may be true, who knows for sure, maybe these things are all my fault and all the problems in my relationship are due to my hangups and if i just went with the flow things would be great!

 

not so sure on that though, that is why i started this message/post cause i feel so burdened and i just cant get him to understand where i am coming from.

 

for example, if i say 'i want to talk to you' his response is like 'oh brother, what now'? or 'now what'? now how does one start a conversation when someone has that attitude, it makes it quite hard to open up and tell someone how you feel when you are met with that kind of response.

 

soooo....i hope to start the counseling thing soon, monday he is going to call about it. i know it wont fix everything, and i did tell him too that if too many issus come up in the counseling thing that we need to re-evaluate our relationship and see what we need to do, and he agreed.

 

so on that note, dont worry that i'm going to jump into any marriage, i am not desperate, or stupid, i am taking this thing ever so slowly, in fact i wanted to wait until july 16th of 2003!

 

he said he wants to get it over with the it stresses him out having it up in the air. as for the catholic possibly not marrying us he said we would go to mexico and do it there, but i'm not doing it unitl i feel ready too!

 

thank you both of you, you are very helpful and this is helping me so much!!!

 

thanks again and again..

Yes, I agree. And if he's looking into churches at this late stage of the game (late in regards to not having enough time for premarital requirements of the Catholic Church), then he's going to be in for a surprise. And yes, if you're not Catholic and are divorced, it's very unlikely that the church will agree to marry you until: a) you get your previous marriage annulled..and b) you join the Catholic church. Quankanne is correct. The Catholic Church does NOT take marriage lightly, and I applaud them for that. When I got married many years ago, my fiance (now ex hubby) and I had to attend a weekend-long "Engaged Encounter" as well as another weekend "Premarital Enrichment." These were absolute requirements of couples wanting to marry in the Catholic Church....and also for other churches, like Lutheran and Anglican. They only have these 'weekends' every so often so you as soon as a couple gets engaged, they need to contact their local parish (church) and find out when the dates are for these weekends and register for them. These weekends are a great eye-opener for many engaged couples. They are lead by married Catholic couples and a priest as well. All kinds of topics are brought up...ones that many couples may not have even discussed or thought about: money management, having a family, dealing with stress/inlaws/arguments, communication, etc etc.

 

I know that Crystal hopes that this weekend will "fix" the problems that her and her fiance have going on, but that won't be the case. A couple of weekends isn't going to fix what's going on here. Sounds to me like it will take months and months.....and even then, until she can sit down and spill the beans to her fiance about how she's really feelings (as she is able to here), there will never be any progress made. Her fiance obviously doesn't realize how unhappy she is/her constant desire to 'leave'....for if he did, I doubt he'd be looking into booking the church..instead, he'd be admitting there's a problem and talking about what constructive things they can do separately and as a COUPLE, to work through them. These weekends cannot be viewed as/used as, a 'bandaid' to fix the kind of relationship problems that Crystal and her fiance have. For engaged couples that are going through as many problems and Crystal and her guy have, any priest or pastor or minister would definitely discourage them strongly from marrying. They are in no position to be entering into something as serious as marriage, at this stage of the game.

[:)]

You had mentioned:

 

"at least he is willing to do counseling and the classes so that is a good sign if we got married and had future problems at least i know now that he would be willing to work things out."

 

Willingness on his part has *nothing* to do with it, I'm afraid. It is mandatory, if a couple wants to marry in the Catholic church, to attend these pre-marital courses/weekend sessions. So, he (and you) have no choice. He likely knows this. So don't mistake his willingness to go as some sort of 'sign' that he'll be willing to work out current and future problems. That's simply not the case, I'm afraid.

 

And I believe Quankanne addressed the issue of possibly going down to Mexico to marry, should the Catholic church in the U.S. refuse to marry you, due to the fact that you're not Catholic/you're divorced.

[:)]

Crystal, I know you're simply trying to find humour in a tense situation, but it's really not funny that you feel your fiance IS "Mr Arrogant." If you feel this way, marrying him should be the furthest thing from your mind. Two people who are READY to be married would not call each other derogatory names, whether in person or behind their back (like on a msg board). This is nothing against you, I'm not saying you have no right to feel he's arrogant, but just the fact that you're even engaged to someone you call Mr Arrogant, that's really very sad. The fact that he wants to marry in July is sad too, because he obviously has no idea that you call him Mr Arrogant behind his back. Again, not saying that's wrong of you, if that's how you feel, but the fact that you feel this way is a huge, neon sign that indicates you 2 should not even be talking marriage, period.

 

You wrote:

 

"i told him that we need to take these classes and he is in agreement..if they help us with communication all the more better!!!"

 

Again, if you want to marry in the Catholic Church, it's not about "wanting" to take these classes...you have no choice. It's mandatory. You already wrote above that he was aware that the church required these classes be taken in order to marry. YOu seem to be thinking that he's giving you some kind of 'sign' that he's willing to work things out, by him agreeing that you need to attend these classes. Again: they are mandatory.....it's not about him 'choosing' to take them or not.

 

And, I can tell you from experience that Engaged Encounter and the Pre-Marital Enrichment weekends only just touch the surface. They are designed more to give couples the opportunity to be aware of various topics that they need to further discuss and work through once the weekend is OVER. You and he will *NOT* learn how to communicate, to the degree that you both need to, during these 2 short weekends. You and he have had the same, ongoing problems for a great length of time......it could take half as long to really and properly work through things. I get the impression that you're overly optimistic, in some respects, about how quickly you and he can resolve things. It's going to take a great deal of time, patience and hard work......

[Crystal]

gee you really hit a nerve on that! i just dont know though how so many times i went to leave and that many times the weather changed so suddenly, really strange.

 

i didnt think of looking at the dream as a collision course with the future, that is an excellent way to put it and i thank you for that!

 

ya know i honestly dont want to go to mexico to get married, i am not that desperate! LOL!

 

i want our marriage when it does happen, to be accepted in the eyes of God and all churches.

 

he did tell me that i could get my marriage anulled but i didnt believe him cause i thought anullment was when your marriage was not consimated (sp).

 

so he did know that anyway, so he does know somethings about the catholics, cause he is full catholic and went through all the school while growing up.

 

i actually want to convert to catholic, i have not even been in a lutheran church since my grandson was baptized in one about a year ago.

 

i find the catholic church more interesting. i am willing to put the marriage on hold but not the relationship.

 

we have been together for four years come july 16th that is where he got the date from to be married.

 

i am miserable in the sense that i cannot explain my troubles to him about what bothers me in our relationship or with him.

 

though he is not perfect, and i know about accepting someone flaws and all but when it comes down to not being able to accept them, flaws and all then something needs to change and i dont know if i can keep changing even if that is where all our problems were to lie.

 

thank you for the encouragement i really needed it too! about three months after we met i tried to break up with him and he said i was throwing him a way like an old shoe!

 

today he came home and found the key on the counter and could not find my dog after looking all over the house, then he found my dog and felt so relieved and even called to tell me he thought i had left him and he was hurting very much just in those few minutes.

 

i dont want to sound like he is such an oger all the time, he has some good points too, this evening he ran me all around town looking for a scooter for my granddaughters b-day party tomorrow then came home and helped me wrap up everything!

 

that was sweet, then i forgot he had a softball tournament tomorrow also at the same time as the party and i felt upset that he wanted to play ball instead of going with me, but the tournament was arranged long before the party but he said he would do his best to get out for the party, but i told hiim tonight not to worry about it and he thanked me cause he felt pressured and torn between the two things.

 

so he can be sweet at times it's just his hollier then thou attitude that gets to me so often, if i could get rid of that then i could be much happier, of course i'm sure i have a half a dozen things or more he would like me to quit doing too, but it's up to him to voice them things so i can change them.

 

thanks again, you have given me alot to think about and God not wanting me to be miserable is one thing i did not think about, but i have really learned alot and grown alot in this relationship so far, so who knows what is up ahead but i know i wont marry him until i feel it in my head and my heart at the same time!

I read in your previous post that you're not Catholic, but he is, and that you guys already know about the instruction you have to take in order to be married in the church. However, your information is still wrong. You're right in presuming the Catholic church will not bless a marriage between you and him if in the eyes of the church one of you is married to someone else ... but mistaken in thinking that it's only the Catholic church in the States is the only one who's going to notice. The Church is universal, and any impediment to a sacramental marriage is going to be looked at. So going to Mexico isn't the answer. What do you want from this relationship? It sounds like you're allowing yourself to be scared into something you innately know isn't right. Dreams are just dreams, just your conscience trying to tell you something. I say if you're dreaming about horrible motorcycle accidents, that's just you trying to scare yourself into doing something (or not doing something). How do you know that those dreams are not about your future life with this guy if you marry him, about self-destruction with this guy? As for the blizzard conditions, those sound more like a curious coincidence rather than A Message From Above. Your best bet is to put your relationship on hold for the time being, and go through the RCIA program at the church; even if you don't convert, you'll at least get a better understanding of the Catholic faith and why we practice as we do... In the meanwhile, the program sponsors will help you through the annulment process in the event you do become Catholic and later want to remarry. Frankly, you sound miserable, but you're allowing yourself be cowed into something you know isn't right for you, or isn't what you need right now. There's no law saying that you can't give yourself a little time to get your throughts together. You say that if you stay, you learn and grow and change; that maybe there really isn't anything for you out there ... I say you're sadly mistaken. EVERY experience is a one you come away with something, and you shouldn't have to wallow in misery because you think that's the only way you'll learn. While God sometimes throws us curveballs, we have to use good counsel to make our choices, not be cowed into them. I don't think God is interested in seeing you needlessly suffering at the hands of some boor who thinks he's better than those around him (because that's how he sounds). Believe me, you deserve a better life than that!

[Crystal]

that is probably true and as i said earlier that he is willing to go to counseling now with me but i think it is more to point out MY problems then it is to address his, so i will keep that in mind!

 

you guys are just great on this and i fully and totally appreciate all this great advice and suggestions i finally feel i'm getting some where that i have been stuck in for so long by these other ideas and suggestions, i appreciate them all!

You had mentioned: "at least he is willing to do counseling and the classes so that is a good sign if we got married and had future problems at least i know now that he would be willing to work things out."

 

Willingness on his part has *nothing* to do with it, I'm afraid. It is mandatory, if a couple wants to marry in the Catholic church, to attend these pre-marital courses/weekend sessions. So, he (and you) have no choice. He likely knows this. So don't mistake his willingness to go as some sort of 'sign' that he'll be willing to work out current and future problems. That's simply not the case, I'm afraid. And I believe Quankanne addressed the issue of possibly going down to Mexico to marry, should the Catholic church in the U.S. refuse to marry you, due to the fact that you're not Catholic/you're divorced.

[Crystal]

okay i get your point, but the joke about 'mr. arrogant, is actually a joke between him and i because i have told him that he is too arrogant and i tried to tell him in a way that would not hurt him cause it drives me nuts and i did not want to add misery to our life by throwing things at him.

 

so at times he knows when he sounds arrogant and will joke about it himself, so this is nothing i am saying behind his back, he definately knows i think that way about him but his ego is either so huge or so arrogant that things just dont bother him like they would me or someone else.

 

he is either so esteemed that he i cannot break his ego and bring him down to wake him up, i dont want to break him, i just want him to realize that he is not what he acts to be.

 

the classes they have here are weekly classes where they give you these assignments (written) and you both fill them out then the father/priest goes over them with you together and it is a discussion thing.

 

i know this is not enough to fix things, i know i have alot of deep seated anger towards him and alot of frustration for not being able to express what i need to tell him then feeling put off by it when i do try as i stammer and stumble over my words, whew!

 

anyway, i know by no means that this has along way to go on my part, but i cant believe he is ready and willing to get married right now if we could the way things are.

 

someone said the fact that he is making arrangements shows that he does not see problems but i do, and that means he has noooo clue that i am not happy and how i feel.

 

so that told me that he needs to know, definitely, and soon at that! maybe i could bring it up in the counseling sessions at the church.

 

i dont know what is going to happen as far as my past divorce but by next week we should have some idea as he is talking to the priest at his church.

 

i am trying to read and understand what everyone is saying, i am trying to open my eyes and not be blind, and open to things all of you are saying, i'm sorry if i seem nieve about all this.

 

it's not so much being over optimistic it's just that i am hopeful if nothing else.

 

i would like to make things work out, afterall after four years it would be painfully hard to end this relationship and i am stubborn to make it work so it dont have to end.

 

his family is my family too, i call him mom and dad, mom and dad and his newphews call me auntie, and it all feels so wonderful to belong to a whole family!

 

my mom died years ago and i've never ever in my life had a father, i dont even know his name but i got my first birthday card from his dad signed "dad", and it almost made me cry!

 

i told my fiance this is the first and only card in my whole life that was signed "dad" and he it almost made me cry and he came and held me, he knows how much it bothers me not to have had a dad while growing up.

 

also my daughter 20 yrs calls him daddy, and he refers to her son and 'his' grandson, so cute ya know.

 

so it is not that easy to just walk away, i have alot invested in this whole thing emotionally that is the whole struggle.

 

he tries too, the other day while watching my grandson i asked him why he dont hold him, are you afraid of him or what?

 

he picked up the baby 18 months and sat him on his lap and they played, "pulling grampa's nose' game for along time, so he tried, and that is what i like about him too.

 

i'm sorry this is so very long, but im trying to paint a bigger picture so you can see that it is not all bad, but alot of times i am unhappy because i cannot deal with his attitude and he gets so stressed from work then turns into this jerk and then the attitude thing.

 

too much i'm sure for this board, too long, too many details, but still i come here trying to figure things out as i need to talk to somebody and people here as yourself are so good with advice, but instead most lose patience with me and call me a martyr when in fact all i am is in love.

 

thanks for listening, sorry for ranting too, i'm taking all your advice too and thinking about EVERYTHING!!!

 

thanks again and again...

Crystal, I know you're simply trying to find humour in a tense situation, but it's really not funny that you feel your fiance IS "Mr Arrogant." If you feel this way, marrying him should be the furthest thing from your mind. Two people who are READY to be married would not call each other derogatory names, whether in person or behind their back (like on a msg board). This is nothing against you, I'm not saying you have no right to feel he's arrogant, but just the fact that you're even engaged to someone you call Mr Arrogant, that's really very sad. The fact that he wants to marry in July is sad too, because he obviously has no idea that you call him Mr Arrogant behind his back. Again, not saying that's wrong of you, if that's how you feel, but the fact that you feel this way is a huge, neon sign that indicates you 2 should not even be talking marriage, period.

 

You wrote: "i told him that we need to take these classes and he is in agreement..if they help us with communication all the more better!!!"

 

Again, if you want to marry in the Catholic Church, it's not about "wanting" to take these classes...you have no choice. It's mandatory. You already wrote above that he was aware that the church required these classes be taken in order to marry. YOu seem to be thinking that he's giving you some kind of 'sign' that he's willing to work things out, by him agreeing that you need to attend these classes. Again: they are mandatory.....it's not about him 'choosing' to take them or not. And, I can tell you from experience that Engaged Encounter and the Pre-Marital Enrichment weekends only just touch the surface. They are designed more to give couples the opportunity to be aware of various topics that they need to further discuss and work through once the weekend is OVER. You and he will *NOT* learn how to communicate, to the degree that you both need to, during these 2 short weekends. You and he have had the same, ongoing problems for a great length of time......it could take half as long to really and properly work through things. I get the impression that you're overly optimistic, in some respects, about how quickly you and he can resolve things. It's going to take a great deal of time, patience and hard work......

[Crystal]

i tried to tell him once all of what i was unhappy with and he got very hurt and said if i was so unhappy and wanted someone so perfect then why dont i go look for him?

 

My Grandma's motto in life was something along the lines of "if something bothers you, do something about it. if you don't do something about it, don't complain". I think it applies to lots in life. If you see your relationship as so one-sided and you feel you are the only making any effort but you don't see your guy pulling his weight then what choice do you have but to leave the relationship? If you can't see yourself leaving the relationship then that is a choice you make to stay and you just have to endure things.

 

If you feel that your the only one trying and you stay around despite your unhappiness then your sending him a message that you think the relationship is fine. If he believes you think things are good then what would motivate him to change? If you don't like the way things are and you've given him plenty of time to work with you at things but he still doesn't, then why would you even want to stay? And don't say it is because you love him because you cannot truly love someone if you are as frustrated and angry as you express. No relationship is perfect but based on what youve written it doesn't sound like a relationship at all. There are many other fish in the sea. Why settle for less? Why waste your time and life on someone who is not the right person for you? Sounds like you need someone who has more things in common with you, in terms of what's necessary to make a good relationship. Why stay with someone who appears to be someone that will never be the kind of man you'll truly be happy with? Part of this is his fault and the rest is your fault: for tolerating all of these things that you find wrong and unfair. If he is not forcing you to stay with him then you are doing so by free choice and if you don't like it, then do leave. WHy be miserable? Or try a trial separation and spend a couple months living apart and see if that will give you both some time to re-evaluate your relationship. Have you ever considered doing that?

[tinglybum]

He sounds so much like my guy!! Every argument we have ever had, according to him, has been my fault and everything mean thing he does or says in an argument, he has "learned from me". Its not all you, he is behaving like that because he doesnt know how to deal with what you are feeling and because he is not will to admit his own responsiblities in regards to the arguments. So, is it all you, NO, definately not...Is it worth it to stay...i wish someone could tell me.

 

Take care

[Crystal]

i've thought about that too, that maybe he just dont know how to deal with my needs, like emotional and verbal.

 

good thoughts too, ya know i find myself acting more and more like my fiance and i hate that.

 

the other day i was talking to him and he was in one of his little impatient moods and snippy, then my daughter called and i heard myself sounding exactly like him towards her and she didnt deserve that at all!

 

i felt so terrible, i went into another room to talk to her and talked the right way to her but i dont want to be like him yet i find myself acting more and more like his towards him and it really sucks cause it puts tension between us.

 

i hope you make progress with your guy at least....good luck!

He sounds so much like my guy!! Every argument we have ever had, according to him, has been my fault and everything mean thing he does or says in an argument, he has "learned from me". Its not all you, he is behaving like that because he doesnt know how to deal with what you are feeling and because he is not will to admit his own responsiblities in regards to the arguments. So, is it all you, NO, definately not...Is it worth it to stay...i wish someone could tell me. Take care