People who minimize cheating and affairs

[pricillia]

Well... in light of this absolutely stunning discussion.

 

I cheated! Selfishly. Then I left the bastard! I hope he's miserable. hahahahha

 

Some days I feel guilty.. Today just isn't one of them.

 

 

Throwing stones.

How to take an incredibly complex human being and shove them into the tiniest box imaginable, and then call it an astounding revolation. People have been working for years to understand the human brain, and Rooster Dar has figured it out in 2.7 seconds! Astounding.

I'm impressed.

 

 

I don't think that is what Rooster was trying to do... When someone is hurt by the actions of others it is hard to see the big pic.

 

Do you know that he was in a relationship that was not going anywhere and he probalby stuck around longer then he should have because he did not put himself first.

[lindya]

You should not live your life in regret, but instead learn from your mistakes and try not to make them again.

 

Agreed. We're all imperfect beings, and piling guilt and shame on eachother for it achieves nothing. Hurling rocks at someone for cheating might create a temporary feeling of righteousness and justice, but ultimately it doesn't achieve anything positive. Nor does rationalising the decision to cheat. Both responses just fuel the other, and turn the whole thing into another of those repulsive "I'm a better person than you are" debates. They don't enable discussion about how a person can grow into a more self-respecting individual who has the courage to be honest with the people around them.

 

An ex cheated on me, and although I was disappointed I wasn't entirely surprised as he had various lofty ideals and ethics that he found very difficult to live up to in practice. The ethic of being honest with a partner was one I hoped he would be able to live up to, but the cheating incident confirmed that wasn't the case.

 

Obviously being cheated on has an emotional impact, and for quite some time my way of dealing with that episode (which resulted in us breaking up) was to view myself as the better, more honourable person. In some ways that's as unhelpful a defence mechanism as are the strategies of avoidance and rationalisation that lead a person to cheat then make excuses/pass on the buck for doing so. Adoption of the moral high ground is an action that's often every bit as unappealing as the behaviour it's directed towards. This is something that reading Loveshack has driven home to me on many occasions.

[magichands]

An ex cheated on me, and although I was disappointed I wasn't entirely surprised as he had various lofty ideals and ethics that he found very difficult to live up to in practice.

Not cheating has become a lofty ideal?

 

Wow. Humanity really has gone down the plughole. The "lofty ideal" of not succumbing to one's biological urge to bonk anything that looks appealing (and willing). Disturbing thinking. Or maybe that's reality.

 

Or maybe I'm just ugly, and I can't get any. That could be it.

[lindya]

Not cheating has become a lofty ideal?

 

Wow. Humanity really has gone down the plughole. The "lofty ideal" of not succumbing to one's biological urge to bonk anything that looks appealing (and willing). Disturbing thinking. Or maybe that's reality.

 

Or maybe I'm just ugly, and I can't get any. That could be it.

 

I didn't say that not cheating was a lofty ideal. I said that my ex had a number of lofty ideals that he was unable to live up to. In that context, it wasn't entirely surprising that the ideal of being honest with a partner was another thing he couldn't manage.

 

If you're determined to stalk me around this board attacking everything I say because of a personal gripe, there's not much I can do about that. Just don't expect any further responses.

[magichands]

I didn't say that not cheating was a lofty ideal. I said that my ex had a number of lofty ideals that he was unable to live up to. In that context, it wasn't entirely surprising that the ideal of being honest with a partner was another thing he couldn't manage.

Fair enough. I'm too dumb to see around your point, I think. And I think a lot of people own up to cheating to release their own guilt...rather than to live up to any standard they have set themselves.

If you're determined to stalk me around this board attacking everything I say because of a personal gripe, there's not much I can do about that. Just don't expect any further responses.

It's only cyberstalking. And don't feel special...I do it to everyone.

[Walk]

Agreed. We're all imperfect beings, and piling guilt and shame on eachother for it achieves nothing. Hurling rocks at someone for cheating might create a temporary feeling of righteousness and justice, but ultimately it doesn't achieve anything positive. Nor does rationalising the decision to cheat. Both responses just fuel the other, and turn the whole thing into another of those repulsive "I'm a better person than you are" debates. They don't enable discussion about how a person can grow into a more self-respecting individual who has the courage to be honest with the people around them.

 

An ex cheated on me, and although I was disappointed I wasn't entirely surprised as he had various lofty ideals and ethics that he found very difficult to live up to in practice. The ethic of being honest with a partner was one I hoped he would be able to live up to, but the cheating incident confirmed that wasn't the case.

 

Obviously being cheated on has an emotional impact, and for quite some time my way of dealing with that episode (which resulted in us breaking up) was to view myself as the better, more honourable person. In some ways that's as unhelpful a defence mechanism as are the strategies of avoidance and rationalisation that lead a person to cheat then make excuses/pass on the buck for doing so. Adoption of the moral high ground is an action that's often every bit as unappealing as the behaviour it's directed towards. This is something that reading Loveshack has driven home to me on many occasions.

 

 

I sometimes forget how eloquently you can phrase thoughts Lindya.

 

But all of the above is exactly what I was attempting to say.. except I'm rather sarcastic and far less eloquent at times.

[Walk]

The point I was trying to make is, that the person that's unhappy (having the affair) knows deep inside what their doing is wrong, and should be responsible enough to communicate their unhappiness and break up with their S/O instead of keeping destructive secrets from their partner.

 

True. And I agree. You should always tell your SO when there are problems. And you should do everything possible to either resolve the problems, or end the relationship if the problems can't be resolved. (without cheating)

 

Most poeple who cheat often want to make sure the new person is going to work out before they finish with the old person, and that my friend is the sign of what most people would ascertain as a bad person.

 

I don't think this way, so this thought didn't occur to me when replying. I guess others may view it like that... not sure I would say this is a "bad person", but a person who has an illogical, or screwed up way of viewing relationships.

 

Not sure what you mean by "bad". Bad to me means a person like Charles Manson, Jack the Ripper, Son of Sam... I'm not saying cheaters are "right" and good people. Just.. not so clearly "good/bad" as you seem to see this.

 

I don't consider myself a bad person.. although I have made some horrendous mistakes in my life. Bad decisions don't always equate to "bad" person. You can argue that cheating is a concious decision and therefore defines the person and their inner being... but I think that depends on the circumstances, thought processes at the time, outside influences, and emotional maturity level of the person and probably several other things. It is a bad decision to drive drunk. So if a person does, they are bad? Or did they make a bad decision? Is it only defined by whehter or not other people get hurt? If so, I'm a bad person, 'cause I've hurt alot of people in my life. Several men I've dumped in the past. People I've fired from jobs. Others who I've told I don't want in my life who were hurt and unhappy with my decision. So it can't be based solely on whether someone gets hurt.... or we'd all be bad people. Is it the degree of pain? The hiding the actions? the deception? What if they learned from this, and are actually more morally strict than the average person now? Are they forever "bad"?

 

What's your criteria for defining someone as a bad person? And can someone change to "good", or should I just give up now cause I'm a bad person and I'll never change?

[Walk]

And where has that been suggested? You excel in the area of hyperbole. I'd be very reluctant to date someone who was emotionally incapable of feeling guilt or shame, especially when it came to cheating. And I'm not talking about a one-week fling, I mean having a "real boyfriend" and being in a "committed relationship".

 

You just said it again. You won't date anyone who isn't feeling guilty or shameful of cheating. So, theoretically, if I wasn't STILL pinning away with feelings of shame from cheating then you would discount me from your life. No matter when you met me? What if it was 6 months later? A year? 5 years? Do you have a time limit on when I can stop feeling like dung, or is that up until you've cast me aside as a "bad" person? Is this to make you feel better? Or to help me grow as an individual?

 

That's an interesting view. I've heard it used before to justify some really awful behavior. "Nothing I do is truly wrong as long as I learn from it and grow as a person." Interesting... I guess it's passe to actually feel offended by cheating these days. I've a close friend who's life was turned upside-down because of stuff like this. And I wouldn't put him on the same moral level as his ex-girlfriend, who cheated on him for extremely trivial reasons.

 

I've never said I didn't do anything wrong. I just said I don't regret my actions. I didn't say I have never regretted my actions. Or that they never affected me profoundly. What I mean when I say I don't regret, is that I ****ed up, and I took that experience and changed who I am so that I won't make that mistake again. I feel it actually made me into a FAR greater person than I ever would've been had I not made that mistake. I'm not justifying my actions. I don't know where you're getting that from when I say I don't regret it. Can you explain how or why so I can understand where you're coming from?

[Guest]

Isn't feeling guilt and shame the best deterrent for "bad behavior"? Then again, that depends on whether you think you did anything wrong to begin with. Since you don't seem to like boxes, then why should we have any restrictions in society? I assume you go into each relationship letting your partner know up-front that you don't have much love for that "tiny box" called monogamy?

 

To some degree, human beings are motivated by self-interest. But that's not the same as acting egotistical and selfish. When somebody else does something clearly wrong, we want to throw the book at him or her (rightly or wrongly). But when the shoe is on the other foot, people use every trick in the book to avoid taking personal responsibility. It takes a strong person to talk-the-talk and walk-the-walk. I tend to think that one's culture and environment has more to do with behavior than brain chemistry. Finding out why someone cheated is a great sidebar, but it sounded like the OP was expressing his frustration with people who seek to condone and justify cheating. Two words: amoral narcissism.

 

 

I DON'T OVER ANALYIZE THAT MUCH - LOL

REMEMBER WHEN I WAS STILL TRYING TO PLEASE U BY FINDING A ILLNESS AND I SENT U THAT TERM - GLAD U STILL USE IT

[Guest]

LOL, unfortunatley cheating does occur and saying to the poster who admit they cheated "You're such a selfish, this and this, instead of actually helping them, advising them, is already time waste. It does happen, ntohing you can do to stop it on the world, though do agree that not everyone does it.

 

Mines involve a kiss with another dude while I was just on my way of dumping my now ex, which I did (only it was two days after the kiss). In a way even if I had not dump him, the one time kiss would have still happen. Do I have any guilt over it? Absolutely NOT, in fact now I have a new b/f and happy with my work and college.

 

 

I AGREE..IN YOUR MIND YOU HAD ALREADY ENDED THINGS - WINK

I KNEW THAT - REMEMBER WHEN U WERE LEAVING?

HEY, U DON'T JUST WAKE UP AND BOOOOOM I AM LEAVING

TO GET TO THE KISS PART YOU NEED TIME TOGETHER - SO IT WAS OVER BEFORE THEN

AND I NOTICED THE COLLEGE JOB - CONGRATS

WONDER IF U ARE WORKING WITH L

I TRIED GETTING THAT ARTICLE YOU WROTE THAT WAS INSPIRED BY THE TONK BUT NO ONE WILL SEND IT - BOO HOO

I AM TRULY GLAD U ARE HAPPY U KNOW

[Guest]

I sometimes forget how eloquently you can phrase thoughts Lindya.

 

But all of the above is exactly what I was attempting to say.. except I'm rather sarcastic and far less eloquent at times.

 

ahhhh..the person i was with would match my level of kindness with a level of nasties...the more i gave the more she hurt...makes sense when u read about why someone does it...

[Mz. Pixie]

Can you define right and wrong? I'm seriously curious. What is right and wrong in your world? Two wrongs make a right? Mr. Bastard did you so wrong, that you could do wrong too? I don't understand the thinking.

 

 

This is kinda like you saying that if your wife cheated then that gives you free will to break your vow as well.

 

You don't understand the above but you understand that??

[shoedevil]

I've never said I didn't do anything wrong. I just said I don't regret my actions. I didn't say I have never regretted my actions. Or that they never affected me profoundly. What I mean when I say I don't regret, is that I ****ed up, and I took that experience and changed who I am so that I won't make that mistake again. I feel it actually made me into a FAR greater person than I ever would've been had I not made that mistake. I'm not justifying my actions. I don't know where you're getting that from when I say I don't regret it. Can you explain how or why so I can understand where you're coming from?

As Rooster_DAR said, this discussion isn’t about attacking people. But he’s right to an extent… it makes sense that cheaters often make excuses in order to make themselves feel better (i.e. he was a bastard anyway). Of course someone who cheats is not as “bad” as Charles Manson. But the cheater certainly isn’t as “good” as Mother Theresa or the Dalai Lama. And I don’t think you should have cheating held against you forever, as it seems you’ve accepted responsibility for what happened. I’m just having trouble reconciling what you’ve said… you regretted cheating after it happened, but now you don’t? You’re glad you cheated, because it allowed you to become a better person because of it? I’ve only really seen the damage done to the person cheated on, which has ranged from depression/anger to suicidal tendencies. I’m less interested in whether the person who cheated ends up embarking on a soul-searching journey, that’s all.

 

On your other point (not dating a cheater), do you begrudge people of their right to have standards in a partner? All things being equal, I’d rather spend my life with someone who hasn’t cheated (and neither have I). I think you can help who you fall in love with, and I was lucky enough to find someone who didn’t have that kind of baggage. What is truly “good” and “bad”? That question can never be answered. Do some people cheat by mistake? Probably. Are some mistakes made intentionally? I think so. Maybe how “bad” a person is depends on how serious the harm they do to other people is, either intentional or not.

 

And I don’t agree with you and lindya: people who are offended by cheating and speak up about it aren’t as bad as the people who cheat and make excuses. That kind of thinking just lowers cheating to the level of jaywalking: something that’s not that terrible in the grand scheme of things, so just accept it as part of life and don’t dwell on it too much. I’ve witnessed serious emotional damage done to close friends, so I’m a little reluctant to just shrug it off and say “things could have been worse”.

[Flyin in Clouds]

Come on, it wasn't even a serious relation, it was just 7 days of getting to know each other (not enough to actually called it a real relationship and there was no boundaries established, that guy didn't talk that much). There was no actual effection/feelings I had for him.

 

? What of his for you? And yes, I understand yours isn't the same as a married person's, kissing someone else after 7 days in a non-committed relationship - I'm not sure I'd call it cheating. I was thinking more of the case of a married person cheating and having no remorse. In that case, having no regrets says the cheating was OK, because they didn't care about the marriage ending, they no longer cared about their soon to be ex.

[Flyin in Clouds]

You should not live your life in regret, but instead learn from your mistakes and try not to make them again.

 

No brainer.

I didn't think you were saying someone had to live the rest of their lives in regret, but to not have any regret for an affair - ever... Some never have any regret when they murder an abusive spouse. I suppose some cheating can end up that way too and for the same reasons.

[Flyin in Clouds]

T...

Not sure what you mean by "bad". Bad to me means a person like Charles Manson, Jack the Ripper, Son of Sam... I'm not saying cheaters are "right" and good people. Just.. not so clearly "good/bad" as you seem to see this.

 

Those people are all saints compared to cheaters...

 

. Bad decisions don't always equate to "bad" person.

People that drive drunk and kill other people don't think of themselves as "bad" people either. They just made a bad decision. A bad mistake, but they aren't bad people.

 

So let me be clear. A bad person is one that makes bad decisions. Like deciding to rob banks, drive while intoxicated, sets brush fires for some "thrill" that kills 4 people and destroys 30 odd homes, ... And sometimes cheating destroys the innocent spouse.

 

You can argue that cheating is a concious decision and therefore defines the person and their inner being... but I think that depends on the circumstances, thought processes at the time, outside influences, and emotional maturity level of the person and probably several other things.

Doesn't that apply to all those other "bad' people too? Circumstances mitigate all?

It is a bad decision to drive drunk. So if a person does, they are bad?

Yes. You think they're not? If they aren't bad what are they? Saints? Frankly they're also criminals.

Is it the degree of pain?

No.

The hiding the actions? the deception?

Bingo... lying, stealing, cheating, murdering, ...

 

What if they learned from this, and are actually more morally strict than the average person now? Are they forever "bad"?

No. But they are forever a cheater. What was done can't be undone. Once you're not a virgin you can't become virgin again. A person may have sex only once and never again, but they will never be a virgin again. You may only cheat once, and never again, but you did cheat that once and that can't be undone.

 

What's your criteria for defining someone as a bad person?

They decide to do bad things.

 

And can someone change to "good", or should I just give up now cause I'm a bad person and I'll never change?

Go and sin no more... Now do you think you will never sin again? And if if you refrain from sinning ever again you were still a sinner were you not?

[Flyin in Clouds]

... You won't date anyone who isn't feeling guilty or shameful of cheating. So, theoretically, if I wasn't STILL pinning away with feelings of shame from cheating then you would discount me from your life. No matter when you met me? What if it was 6 months later? A year? 5 years? Do you have a time limit on when I can stop feeling like dung, or is that up until you've cast me aside as a "bad" person? Is this to make you feel better? Or to help me grow as an individual?

 

Walk, I personally would never ever date a cheater no matter how long ago in their past the cheating happened, regardless if they felt remorse or not. Some other guy wouldn't care. But me, no way. I just wouldn't want to be with someone that did justify cheating to themselves in the past. I wouldn't date someone that had been in prison either.

[Flyin in Clouds]

Originally Posted by Flyin in Clouds

Can you define right and wrong? I'm seriously curious. What is right and wrong in your world? Two wrongs make a right? Mr. Bastard did you so wrong, that you could do wrong too? I don't understand the thinking.

This is kinda like you saying that if your wife cheated then that gives you free will to break your vow as well.

 

You don't understand the above but you understand that??

 

So you are saying their is moral equivalence between "being badly treated" and actually having an affair?

 

What ever Mr. Bastard did, she can be Ms. Bitch to that. But cheating isn't the same as merely ignoring someone is it? Emotional abuse = PA, acutal sex outside the marriage? I don't see those as being equivelant. Do you?

 

But when the W has a PA, then it's clear she did wrong. As I said, after that point I don't view the H as doing anything wrong should he do what his W did because she changed the rules of the marriage, and those new rules apply to both equally.

 

If an H is emotionally cold to his wife, I feel she is justified in being emotionally cold to him as well. But what the cheaters are saying is my spouse ignores my needs (which isn't really a moral wrong is it?) so I can then commit a greater moral wrong.

 

And what I've said is that once the vows are broken then I as the BS can decide what new "vows" are that I'm willing to accept as part of the new marriage. The old vows no longer apply and therefor my having sex outside the marriage is no longer "cheating" because it would be stated up front that that was part of the new deal between us if there was any new deal bewtween us, that is. Actually it isn't even breaking the old vows either because what she can do with other men, I can do with other women. What she can't do, I can't do either. That is part of the vows... they were mutual, never unilateral.

 

So no, I'm not advocating two wrongs make a right. My affair after hers would no longer be wrong because it would no longer be breaking the new (or old) vow I agreed to.

 

I am still waiting to hear why if a W has an A and they try to patch up the marriage, that if the H later decides to have an A why his treatement should be any different from the wife's? He's not to be forgiven his affair as she was? Why the double standard? How do women possibly justify saying they'd leave the marriage after they had an affair, patched things up, if their husband dare do what they did? I don't get that one at all. The husband is reuired to forgive but the wife doesn't have to? The wife can be unfaithful, but the husband has to remain faithful even after her betrayal? WTF? Why would I put up with that kind of inequity in a relationship?

 

But what I would like to hear from Walk and other cheaters is what are the "wrongs" that your SO has done that justified your cheating? I.e. that made cheating right. Does bad treatment in the marriage equal cheating?

[Rooster_DAR]

I believe people do make mistakes and bad jugements, and they are not always bad people. I guess I should re-iterate a bit in saying cheaters are bad people, this may not always be true. But, they are bad people in IMO if they don't realize that what they did was wrong and accept responsibility for it. In a marriage, you stand by your vows or you will be labeled as a cheater and bad person by a lot of people, why? because you broke a commitement and disrupted the marriage/relationship.

 

In the case of abusive relationships, you can always seek a divorce and protective custody before you decide to jump in the sack with someone else. Look, I just get tired of seeing nice people get stomped on by someone who decides to **ck around or leave the relationship without the other person knowing until the destruction sets in. I see too many good friends and work colleagues destroyed by someone and for what, cause they decide all of a sudden they need to go where the grass is greener?

 

If your unhappy, talk to your S/O about it, end the relationship and then shack up with someone else. If you don't have the **lls to talk to them, then for christ sakes make a cold break and let them go.

 

Cheers!

[Guest]

My livein boyfriend came home at 7am and said he was too drunk to drive home but he did'nt call... He said there was a girl at the party who wanted to screw his brains out but his heart was here and he would'nt do anything cause she sleeps with everyone... I was so upset... was he being honest or was he starting something or did he cheat,, I broke up with him talked to his friends and they said nothing happened but except that he grabbed this girla nd she was sitting on his lap.. Friends say nothing happened... I still am upset....

[Rooster_DAR]

You have every right to be upset. He needs to apologize and get his **it together.

[Walk]

ahhhh..the person i was with would match my level of kindness with a level of nasties...the more i gave the more she hurt...makes sense when u read about why someone does it...

 

I didn't understand this. Can you explain? (truly didn't understand what you understand, or why you feel she did it.)

[Walk]

do you begrudge people of their right to have standards in a partner? All things being equal, I’d rather spend my life with someone who hasn’t cheated (and neither have I). I think you can help who you fall in love with, and I was lucky enough to find someone who didn’t have that kind of baggage. What is truly “good” and “bad”? That question can never be answered. Do some people cheat by mistake? Probably. Are some mistakes made intentionally? I think so. Maybe how “bad” a person is depends on how serious the harm they do to other people is, either intentional or not.

I think it's your right to choose who you wish to place your trust in.

 

For the latter half of the quote, I don't feel a generalized label can apply to people. We're far to complex. It seems really simple to say John Doe is a bad person, but inside his head he's fighting off demons you've never had to encounter in your life. You can blanket him with a dismissive label, that's your right. But I think it ends up dismissing possibilities, closing doors. Limiting your thoughts and understanding of human nature.

 

people who are offended by cheating and speak up about it aren’t as bad as the people who cheat and make excuses.

I don't believe she was saying cheaters weren't doing anything wrong. Or that you were wrong for speaking out against it. I think she was trying to say that some people tend to take the "I am holier than thou" approach. That you (you as in people who were cheated on, not you specificially) feel morally superior simply because you didn't cheat. Not because you're actually a better person. That some people will use that to stance to justify any amount of slander and derogatory comments toward another human being. Do you think it doens't cause pain? Have you ever read the scarelet letter? It's a good book by the way... But if you cause someone intentional pain aren't you "bad" but then you say your right because you're morally superior to the person you're causing pain to.

 

I think that's in essence she was attempting to say.

[Walk]

What if they learned from this, and are actually more morally strict than the average person now? Are they forever "bad"?

No. But they are forever a cheater. What was done can't be undone. Once you're not a virgin you can't become virgin again. A person may have sex only once and never again, but they will never be a virgin again. You may only cheat once, and never again, but you did cheat that once and that can't be undone.

And can someone change to "good", or should I just give up now cause I'm a bad person and I'll never change?

Go and sin no more... Now do you think you will never sin again? And if if you refrain from sinning ever again you were still a sinner were you not?

Out of curiousity... if I am a "sinner" forever, then you believe I will always sin? Either I'm bad, and sin.. or I'm not bad, and I can change. You talk as though no one has the capacity to change who they are. That we are fixed into a set path, and we might as well give up trying to be better people because we either are, or we aren't. What a sad way to live life....

 

I think, from a psychological view point... what you really fear is that you will cheat. You see the longing inside yourself and you feel disgust. But you don't want to admit that you posses this characteristic that you so despise in others. So you lash out at those who embody the thing you hate most about yourself. You comment about wanting to see your wifes friend in a skimpy bathing suit. To see her give you a private belly dance... Your wife would be there for proprieties sake.. but you have lust for the friend, or you never would have mention it. You try to justify your thoughts in order to convince yourself you aren't bad, not like I'm bad. Your different, right? You haven't cheated... you've even justified kissing another person because it's under the mistletoe. You're still safe in your morality. Still enwrapped by the protective cloak of the righteous. You kissing someone else is okay... becaues the circumstances are different, your justified. You aren't doing anything wrong... You're still "pure". I'm bad.. you're the good guy here.

[Mz. Pixie]

I am still waiting to hear why if a W has an A and they try to patch up the marriage, that if the H later decides to have an A why his treatement should be any different from the wife's? He's not to be forgiven his affair as she was? Why the double standard? How do women possibly justify saying they'd leave the marriage after they had an affair, patched things up, if their husband dare do what they did? I don't get that one at all. The husband is reuired to forgive but the wife doesn't have to? The wife can be unfaithful, but the husband has to remain faithful even after her betrayal? WTF? Why would I put up with that kind of inequity in a relationship?

 

I never said it should be different. I personally do not think though that it makes things better for recovery to do so.

 

I also personally do not believe that someone else doing something justifys me doing the same thing.

 

But what I would like to hear from Walk and other cheaters is what are the "wrongs" that your SO has done that justified your cheating? I.e. that made cheating right. Does bad treatment in the marriage equal cheating?

 

Of course not, and I was certainly not saying so. But, on the same line of thinking- nothing that I had done justified him treating me the way he did. See, in your way of thinking what he did to me wasn't as bad as what I did to him. I can understand that, but truly it depends on which side of the issue you're standing on. If you're the one enduring it and asking for counseling and such over and over and over- it begins to equal your spouse not loving you or caring about you. I'm not saying what I did wasn't wrong, or extremely painful but I also endured alot of pain as well.

 

This is not about who did what to whom to justify something or as you'd like to see it "tit for tat". It's about both people making mistakes in a marriage and it ultimately not working out.