People who minimize cheating and affairs

[Mz. Pixie]

I don't believe she was saying cheaters weren't doing anything wrong. Or that you were wrong for speaking out against it. I think she was trying to say that some people tend to take the "I am holier than thou" approach. That you (you as in people who were cheated on, not you specificially) feel morally superior simply because you didn't cheat. Not because you're actually a better person. That some people will use that to stance to justify any amount of slander and derogatory comments toward another human being. Do you think it doens't cause pain? Have you ever read the scarelet letter? It's a good book by the way... But if you cause someone intentional pain aren't you "bad" but then you say your right because you're morally superior to the person you're causing pain to.

 

I think that's in essence she was attempting to say.

 

WORD! As I said the previous post, it really depends on which side you're standing on.

[Walk]

And to answer you guestion why I did.. Not so simple.

 

When i met my ex I had 250,000 dollars in retirement. When I left the ex, I owed $180,000. I owned nothing. Just the clothes on my back and a $4,000 car that I owed $3700 on. I left him 3 times. The first time he found out where I was staying and showed up. He beat on the door and screamed until I let him in, and he promised I would never leave him again. He'd never let me go.. The second time I left, he called me at work so much that my boss finally screamed at me that he was going to fire me if I didn't resolve this interference with my work. The third time i left, my ex called me and detailed out how he was going to take the shotgun and blow his brains out. How it would be my fault. That we were happy, and *I* was crazy. I had problems. I needed mental help. Prior to trying to leave, I spent 3 years trying to find comprimise to make our relationship work. Trying to explain why I was so unhappy. We went to marriage counseling.. my ex said the counselor was full of ****. My money was direct deposited into a bank account he had. There were many nights (worked second shift) that I'd come home and there would be pizza boxes and beer bottles littering the livign room... and not a drop of food left in the entire house. I stole food from work in order to eat. I begged co-workers for scraps of their lunch. While I was busting my ass, my ex was at the bar blowing all our money.

 

After my attempts at leaving, and failing at scraping enough money together to leave, I went to a mutual friend for help. The ex would invite this friend on our vacations, to stay at our house for weeks at a time. He was always there. I once wacked my head on a low board one day, and it hurt like hell.. tears started falling down my face. My ex looked at me, adn said "God damn, look where you're going." The friend.. just gave me this look of sadness and empathy. That he wanted to help, but couldn't... A year later.. I cheated on the ex with the friend. Not intercourse.. but other things.

 

I waited a while to tell my ex because I couldn't figure out if I should expose the friends part or not. Didn't know what to do... But I couldn't live with myself for what I'd done. So I told my ex, and then left. My ex, refused to sign the divorce papers, and stalked me for nearly a year afterward. I couldn't leave the house without seeing him. the ex would stop me where ever I was and first tell me I was screwed up, that I shouldn't hvae left him, then he would scream at me.. til I would cry and run away.....

 

But, again, I'm just justifying my actions....

I cheated. I'm selfish. I should burn in hell for eternity, and be cast from civilization as a traitor, never again to interact with the "pure" and the "morally righteous". I actually did feel this way for about a year afterward. But I don't anymore....

[Mz. Pixie]

. That we were happy, and *I* was crazy. I had problems. I needed mental help. Prior to trying to leave, I spent 3 years trying to find comprimise to make our relationship work. Trying to explain why I was so unhappy.

 

This sounds familiar- except mine was a bit longer than this. Of course, we didn't have a problem, only I did. Isn't it funny that I have no such problems anymore since I'm not married to him??

[shoedevil]

It seems really simple to say John Doe is a bad person, but inside his head he's fighting off demons you've never had to encounter in your life. You can blanket him with a dismissive label, that's your right. But I think it ends up dismissing possibilities, closing doors. Limiting your thoughts and understanding of human nature.

Well, I don’t sympathize with criminals who've broken the law, either. And I don’t see how I’m limiting myself by not sympathizing with people who've cheated. Why someone cheated won’t change my view that it’s just plain wrong to do so in an exclusive relationship. I'm not a sociologist or a psychologist. What "practical" doors am I really closing? I have friends who still harbor the baggage from being cheated on. It’s affected every relationship they’ve been in since, and not for the better. That’s what upsets me most, not what drove the other person to cheat.

 

Though I don’t admire you for cheating or having a ONS, I understand the issues you were facing. It’s too bad you didn’t live in a state with no-fault divorce. But you mentioned that because you cheated, it made you a “FAR greater person”. Just curious: do you think I’m missing out on some opportunities for personal growth because I haven’t made the same mistake you did?

I think she was trying to say that some people tend to take the "I am holier than thou" approach. That you feel morally superior simply because you didn't cheat. Not because you're actually a better person. That some people will use that to stance to justify any amount of slander and derogatory comments toward another human being.

Who has taken that position in this discussion? That sounds like a straw-man argument. This thread isn’t even about condemning people who’ve cheated, as Rooster_DAR said. Cheating on someone is a disrespectful act, but so is trashing someone. That's schoolyard behavior. Two wrongs never make a right, obviously. However, I do think I’m a “better” person because I haven’t cheated, or committed a violent crime (though I’ve been the victim of one). Nobody’s perfect, of course. But I guess taking a little pride in oneself makes you an egomaniac, right?

[Walk]

Well, I don’t sympathize with criminals who've broken the law, either. And I don’t see how I’m limiting myself by not sympathizing with people who've cheated.

I think you're misunderstanding what I was trying to say... which is my fault, not yours, I don't think I was very clear. You probably shouldn't sympathize with criminals or cheaters. I'm not saying you should.

 

As far as limiting yourself.. I'm not sure you specifiically are. Flying.. probably. I think he's that closed minded. You, though.. I think you would listen with caution, make an informed decision and come to your own conclusion based on what you know. As long as people do that, then I don't feel they are limiting themselves to a narrow view of the world.

 

When I got my divorce I got a new boss at my job. I was having a tough time of it, and she pulled me aside to talk about what I was going through. She didn't know I cheated, only that I was getting a divorce. Anyway, she told me that she had gotten a divorce several years ago... a bad marriage that she wanted out of.. and a guy that she'd known years before came back into the picture before she left her husband. She cheated on her husband, and left him for the guy she knew before.

 

So although, my boss probably should've waited to fool around with this other guy who she's now been married to for over a decade... She's not a bad person. Actually, I owe a lot to that woman. She ended up giving me a bunch of her old work clothes so I could have something decent to wear to work after I left the ex. She offered me money, time, an ear whenever I needed it...... Suppose I had had the mentality that cheating was bad. I would have negated who she was as person.. which is a caring, thoughtful, wonderful person who is honestly a Good person. She chose a poor way to end her previous marriage. But she isn't a bad person.. In fact, I would say she's a far better person then most of us could live up to... So if you would shun her due to her past, then yes, you are limiting yourself.

 

But you mentioned that because you cheated, it made you a “FAR greater person”. Just curious: do you think I’m missing out on some opportunities for personal growth because I haven’t made the same mistake you did?

 

I'm not advocating cheating. However, it has made me far more open minded and tolerant in my views. I used to say I "would never cheat". Ever. And I meant it. I honestly felt the same way as you. And I know for a fact that other people have felt this way too. But the human brain can only withstand so much pressure before it starts seeking alternative means of coping. I now know my limits. I understand my boundaries, and am far greater at exerting control over my environment in order to ensure that I stay well within my moral comfort zone. ie: I don't kiss other guys under mistletoe. I don't allow men (other than my bf) to within 4 feet of me. I am much more aware that when things aren't going well in my relationship my mind will wander to potential other men.. so I work twenty times harder on my relationship to ensure that it is solid and that both our needs are fully met. I don't hesitate to jump feet first into a potential land mine discussion, because I would rather go to blows with my bf, then EVER cheat again. So yes, I am a better person than I was. I hope you never go through that. And I'd rather no one would have to grow in that way.

 

Who has taken that position in this discussion? That sounds like a straw-man argument. This thread isn’t even about condemning people who’ve cheated, as Rooster_DAR said. Cheating on someone is a disrespectful act, but so is trashing someone. That's schoolyard behavior. Two wrongs never make a right, obviously. However, I do think I’m a “better” person because I haven’t cheated, or committed a violent crime (though I’ve been the victim of one). Nobody’s perfect, of course. But I guess taking a little pride in oneself makes you an egomaniac, right?

 

 

I'm insulted by Flyin's comments about how I am no better than Charles Manson, or Son of Sam. He's taking the "holier than thou" to heart and running with it. Even though he thinks its just fine to oogle his wife's best friend, or tell record producer that he would love to kiss her curvy little ass and how hot she is....

 

I feel I'm morally superior to Flyin. So, I guess I'm just as much at fault for what I've said I'm upset at... But I would like to see people try to understand, they don't have to agree.. just listen with an open mind and then make a decision based on what they belief.. not just launch into a "I'm better than you are" tirade.

[Mz. Pixie]

I think what she's saying is that everyone does things that are wrong. Whether its cheating on your taxes, telling lies, gossiping, etc. There are people who believe that even looking at another woman with lust is wrong and a sin. Coveting or being envious of your neighbor is as well.

 

It's not just an issue of taking pride in yourself, it's the over and over insinuation that people that have cheated are right up there with criminals. Last I checked you couldn't really go to jail for that. They are human just like everyone else and everyone makes a mistake- or does things that they later regret or wish they hadn't done. There are far more people who cheat than admit to it- and some of them are regular posters on this board!

 

Perhaps Walk learned alot about herself during her experience??? Perhaps it gave her the hint that a better relationship might be had out there after getting a glimpse of it- and it gave her the courage to get out??

 

It doesn't make a person a horrible person forever. What it does make them is "not the person for you".

 

You may personally not have a problem with cheating on your taxes while I do. (not saying you do, just using it as an example) Cheating on your taxes is a crime that you can go to jail for in it's extremes. But who am I to say that you're the most horrible person on the planet??

 

Am I to say that I'm better than people who cheat on their taxes?? Or lie about stupid stuff to their bosses or their so's or whoever?? One would never think to tell someone something along those lines usually but boy throw sex into the middle of it and people get indignant and do not have a problem telling you about it.

[Walk]

I am still waiting to hear why if a W has an A and they try to patch up the marriage, that if the H later decides to have an A why his treatement should be any different from the wife's? He's not to be forgiven his affair as she was? Why the double standard? How do women possibly justify saying they'd leave the marriage after they had an affair, patched things up, if their husband dare do what they did? I don't get that one at all. The husband is reuired to forgive but the wife doesn't have to? The wife can be unfaithful, but the husband has to remain faithful even after her betrayal? WTF? Why would I put up with that kind of inequity in a relationship?

 

So 2 wrongs DO make a right in your book?

 

Well.. weird way to look at things, but whatever. It's your life.

 

I think what people have a hard time coping with on a reverse affair like this, is that after the first affair has been discovered and addressed, then there is discussion, comprimise, and agreements made as to how each of them will treat the marriage and their partners. A full disclosure clause for the woman, and extreme effort from her to rebuild the trust that was lost. So for the man to then have an affair, what he's saying is that it's okay for him, but not for her. He's already made her jump through hoops to keep him from leaving... He's gone into detail about the pain and misery that cheating causes. He tells her he forgives her, but then shows that that was all a lie by attempting to get back at her through the same means she hurt him with. So basically, the entire marriage is a lie, and I don't think it would dissolve based on the cheating, but on the complete destruction of trust. He lied about forgiving her, he lied about wanting to work it out.. etc. His trust in her was already damaged and tenuous.

 

So to say a woman won't forgive a H for doing the same thing she did, is not really telling the whole story. It's a very simplistic way of looking at it. There is nothing to forgive at that point. There is no marriage anymore. No trust could ever be rebuilt after that. There was a renewed promise of effort from both of them in order to address the problems and potentially save the marriage. If it fails (through either of them cheating again) then there is no marriage at that point. So whether he cheated, or she had cheated again.. it wouldn't have made a difference.

 

You're point is moot Flyin. Try something different.

[shoedevil]

But I would like to see people try to understand, they don't have to agree.. just listen with an open mind and then make a decision based on what they belief.. not just launch into a "I'm better than you are" tirade.

Well said... people's own track records speak for themselves. One instance of cheating certainly doesn't negate years of charitable work. I don't have any fondness for Mr. Clouds or RecordProducer. Sexism from either gender is equally distasteful, not to mention immature.

I think what she's saying is that everyone does things that are wrong. Whether its cheating on your taxes, telling lies, gossiping, etc.

Well, not all things that are "wrong" are on the same level of seriousness. And I wasn't suggesting cheaters were akin to criminals. I was drawing an analogy (i.e. different behavior, similar consequences).

[samsungxoxo]

Wow, this thing sure seems to go on forever. If you're so into cheaters, might as well make them wear a scarlet letter ("L" for loser).

[lindya]

I think what she's saying is that everyone does things that are wrong. Whether its cheating on your taxes, telling lies, gossiping, etc. There are people who believe that even looking at another woman with lust is wrong and a sin. Coveting or being envious of your neighbor is as well.

 

That's what I'm saying. I was the Cheated On, not the Cheater...but it doesn't mean I have to spend the rest of my life ranting about it and condemning all cheaters as evil.

 

Yes, it's an extremely hurtful thing to go through. Sod's Law dictates that these things often happen at periods in your life when you are least emotionally equipped to deal with them. Being cheated on throws a person right back into the first (and therefore most painful) conflict any human being experiences. Trust versus mistrust. The experience of having to reconcile yourself to the fact that someone you love, trust and have some level of emotional dependency on is, in fact, capable of letting you down. Of putting their desires before your emotional needs.

 

Shoedevil stated:

 

I’ve witnessed serious emotional damage done to close friends, so I’m a little reluctant to just shrug it off and say “things could have been worse”.

 

I don't doubt that. I don't disagree with it. I also felt seriously damaged, emotionally, by being cheated on....but however much emotional damage might feel as though it stems from one hurtful episode, it never does. We all have core beliefs - some negative, some positive. The more a hurtful episode like cheating feels as though it's destroyed your happiness potential, the more likely it is that you've got a whole pile of negative core beliefs hidden away inside that the experience of being cheated on tapped into.

 

If a betrayed person falls into a depression as a result of the betrayal, that's a sign that it's time to get some assistance with looking at those core beliefs and setting about changing them so that the person can bring improvements into their life.

 

Unfortunately, some people never do that. It's more tempting, more comforting (albeit comforting in a very false sense) to just plod through life filled with anger and resentment against the person who "did you wrong". Projecting that resentment against anyone else you associate with that Bad Person. Coming onto messageboards like Loveshack, searching out posters who remind you of the Bad Person and attacking them for who they are and for how terrible someone just like them "made" you feel.

 

Those tactics prevent that difficult process of honest self examination....examination that's not about finding "bad" things in yourself, but that encourages recognition of the fact that much of what makes one feel depressed rests within oneself. Spending a lifetime blaming others for the painful feelings ultimately achieves very little.

 

What I wonder, with people who righteously leap onto others for their transgressions, is how they cope with their own. I'm guessing that some might repress the knowledge of them, and distract themselves by focusing even more on other people's flaws and sins. Others might alternate between beating themselves up over the transgression, and lashing out resentfully at those who inspired the guilt. I should add that I'm not directing this at any particular poster. In writing this, I'm thinking more of some of the threads I've seen in the Other Woman section from time to time.

 

Both you and Walk have indicated that you did something you're not proud of, but you used that episode for personal growth: To help define who you want to be...rather than dressing in sackcloth and continually thrashing yourselves with branches for something that happened in the past. That seems like a pretty healthy attitude to me.

[magichands]

Both you and Walk have indicated that you did something you're not proud of, but you used that episode for personal growth: To help define who you want to be...rather than dressing in sackcloth and continually thrashing yourselves with branches for something that happened in the past. That seems like a pretty healthy attitude to me.

I like this paragraph. Helps me remember that we all make mistakes, and that we shouldn't let those mistakes define us, but rather the things we learn from them. Well, if there is anything to learn - and maybe that's the trick.

 

I'm quite fond of self-flagellation. What a waste of time that is. And maybe that's exactly why I do it.

[Adunaphel]

Walk, those were great posts. :)

[lindya]

I like this paragraph. Helps me remember that we all make mistakes, and that we shouldn't let those mistakes define us, but rather the things we learn from them. Well, if there is anything to learn - and maybe that's the trick.

 

I'm quite fond of self-flagellation. What a waste of time that is. And maybe that's exactly why I do it.

 

It is a waste of time. Also, it stands to reason that the more a person is inclined to beat themselves up over mistakes and errors of judgement, the more reluctant they'll be to face up to those mistakes in the first place. How hard to face up to one's imperfections if the process of doing that is accompanied by horrendous guilt and shame.

 

The only purpose, as far as I can see, that guilt serves is to act as a wake up call, alerting us to the fact that we're in danger of becoming the sort of person we really don't want to be. Once it's served that purpose, and set the process of self-improvement in motion, it should be laid aside. It makes no sense to hang onto guilt - or trying to force others to hang onto it - once it's past its sell-by date.

 

Take the critical parent who constantly uses guilt (rather than calm, consistent imposition of boundaries for negative behaviour and a system of rewards for positive behaviour) as the primary method of disciplining their child. Short term they get results...but then the child gets older. He starts to seek autonomy and an identity of his own, and begins to rebel against the use of guilt-tripping as a means of control. Ladling on guilt never seems to result in anything good happening - yet people resort to it time and time again.

[Ripples]

It is a waste of time. Also, it stands to reason that the more a person is inclined to beat themselves up over mistakes and errors of judgement, the more reluctant they'll be to face up to those mistakes in the first place. How hard to face up to one's imperfections if the process of doing that is accompanied by horrendous guilt and shame.

 

The only purpose, as far as I can see, that guilt serves is to act as a wake up call, alerting us to the fact that we're in danger of becoming the sort of person we really don't want to be. Once it's served that purpose, and set the process of self-improvement in motion, it should be laid aside. It makes no sense to hang onto guilt - or trying to force others to hang onto it - once it's past its sell-by date.

 

Take the critical parent who constantly uses guilt (rather than calm, consistent imposition of boundaries for negative behaviour and a system of rewards for positive behaviour) as the primary method of disciplining their child. Short term they get results...but then the child gets older. He starts to seek autonomy and an identity of his own, and begins to rebel against the use of guilt-tripping as a means of control. Ladling on guilt never seems to result in anything good happening - yet people resort to it time and time again.

 

Really insightful. Fantastic post.

[amerikajin]

I still find it amazing how many people will still defend cheating and affairs with attempted logical explanations. I keep reading posts where people try to justify or rationalize cheating with ideological rhetoric that somehow it's okay due to certain cirumtances. The real truth is, cheating/affairs are wrong, hurt lot's of poeople, and destroy the family infrastructure. But, affairs do happen unfortunately and that's part of the world we live in now.

 

I think these people need to stop rationalizing, and own up to the fact that this beaviour is selfish and self fullfilling. Consider the real issue of why you married someone in the first place that you could not stay commited and honest with.

 

Cheers,

 

"Don't worry, be happy!"

 

In my opinion, although there is never a good reason to cheat, I think people put waaaay too much emphasis on the offense of cheating itself and not enough scrutiny on the factors which led a person to cheat to begin with.

 

Now granted, some people are just selfish and starved for attention, and they somehow feel that they aren't getting enough of it from their partner, so they go out and get some on the side.

 

But in the majority of cases, cheating is a symptom of a disease, not so much the disease in and of itself. I think that cheating is obviously wrong, but cheating is a sign that something hasn't been right in the marriage for a long time. You can't ignore your wife's sexual needs and then act all indignant and surprised when she goes out and gets a cock; likewise, a woman can't be a bytch to her man and then sit in astonishment if he ends up banging the office secretary who showers him with praise.

 

The reasons for cheating are, in my opinion, due to the ongoing struggle for understanding between the sexes. I forgot where I read it, but something I read recently rang home so true: Women marry men hoping they'll change but they never do; men marry women hoping they'll never change, but they always do. I think that about sums it up, because that's been true in my experience and in the experiences of a lot of other men.

[magichands]

The only purpose, as far as I can see, that guilt serves is to act as a wake up call, alerting us to the fact that we're in danger of becoming the sort of person we really don't want to be.

I think that's very true.

 

At least I hope it is. Otherwise it's alerting me to the fact that I am a person I don't want to be - and I'm stuck with it, haha.

 

Guilt should be unpleasant enough to know that you don't want to make more of it by repeating history. But sometimes my life seems a bit like a skit.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=962665&postcount=25

 

I'll try not to strike out again today. I wonder if cats keep a running tally?

[Mz. Pixie]

It's more tempting, more comforting (albeit comforting in a very false sense) to just plod through life filled with anger and resentment against the person who "did you wrong". Projecting that resentment against anyone else you associate with that Bad Person. Coming onto messageboards like Loveshack, searching out posters who remind you of the Bad Person and attacking them for who they are and for how terrible someone just like them "made" you feel

 

EXACTLY!!!!!

 

 

Those tactics prevent that difficult process of honest self examination....examination that's not about finding "bad" things in yourself, but that encourages recognition of the fact that much of what makes one feel depressed rests within oneself. Spending a lifetime blaming others for the painful feelings ultimately achieves very little

 

YES! They don't really want to look at their issues and what they might have contributed to the death of their relationship. (I'm not directing this towards you or your sitch- I'm just saying this is fairly normal) What happens is that the issues get swept to the side when one partner cheats. It's so much easier to blame the cheating partner than to accept responsibility for their own actions. For instance, everyone that we knew knew that my exhusband wasn't treating me as he should, wasn't spending any time at home or with the kids. But the minute that I had an affair it let his very real wrongs be minimized because of that. It was much easier for everyone to turn the focus to me rather than to him- and he was automatically freed from having to accept responsibility for his part in the demise of the marriage. Yes, what I did was terribly wrong and I shouldn't have done it- but no more than he should have done to me what he did. Who is to minimize someone's pain and the amount of pain they are capable of handling??? Who is to say whose pain is worse???

 

I have noticed that a majority of the threads of this nature are opened by male posters- have you noticed the same?

 

What I wonder, with people who righteously leap onto others for their transgressions, is how they cope with their own. I'm guessing that some might repress the knowledge of them, and distract themselves by focusing even more on other people's flaws and sins. Others might alternate between beating themselves up over the transgression, and lashing out resentfully at those who inspired the guilt. I should add that I'm not directing this at any particular poster. In writing this, I'm thinking more of some of the threads I've seen in the Other Woman section from time to time

 

True. As I said before obviously there are more people who have done it in the past because it is so rampant. People just do not want to admit it to anyone- even to themselves at times.

 

Both you and Walk have indicated that you did something you're not proud of, but you used that episode for personal growth: To help define who you want to be...rather than dressing in sackcloth and continually thrashing yourselves with branches for something that happened in the past. That seems like a pretty healthy attitude to me.

 

Thank you Linda.

[nicki]

Excellent insight from all!

 

I am always humbled at how intelligent the people are who post here.

 

To understand why we cheated is to understand who we are. That is the only way to change behavior. The person who is a habitual cheater is one thing. The person who cheats, feels the signal of guilt and changes is quite another. It's not wrong to want your needs met. It is wrong to cheat, though, in order to get them met.

 

Cheating can be a wake up call if we examine our own behavior.

 

I doubt Walk will ever cheat again. Her behavior in relationships is very protective against it. I like how she said she would rather go to blows with her SO than cheat. That's the right attitude. She arrived at this attitude by what has happened to her. She learned....

 

My ex husband broke our marriage vows by being abusive. I no longer felt married to him, so I understand the poster who said once the vows are broken all bets are off....That doesn't mean the injured party takes revenge, but i can understand why they wouldn't want to deny themselves of an opportunity to find some love and closeness....BUT, by doing that it means the marriage is OVER and it's time to get divorced.

 

I have cheated on the way out of a relationship. I felt horrible about it, and I knew that it was the final nail in the coffin. So I made sure I never went back to the first relationship. I knew I could never go back after what I did. That I was subconsiously ending the relationship by doing what I did. So I moved on.

 

Guilt is built around shame. I never felt shame for what I did because the guy was an a**hole to me. I knew I needed closeness and respect, and for needing those things that I felt no shame. BUT, I did feel tons of regret for my action of cheating. Feeling the regret required me to take the action of leaving and staying gone.

 

Now I know that if I ever feel like cheating, then I need to look at my relationship and fix it or leave. You leave for yourself, not for a new relationship.

 

A poster once said on this site that we need to evaluate our relationships as stand-alone relationships, regardless of whether there could be another person in the picture. Another person should never make us leave. We should leave because the relationship isn't working.

 

I would date someone who cheated if they showed true remorse and expressed what they had learned from it. I wouldn't date someone who cheated and blew it off, 100% blaming their SO. And I probably wouldn't date someone who had such high ideals that didn't think that temptation and problems could arise by outside parties. I'd rather have someone act protectively of the relationship, like Walk does. Someone who sees the traps and how people get into trouble.

 

She sees clearly where the dangers lie, and how they start.

 

Sometimes I think cheaters are just people who should have just left earlier. Then they wouldn't be cheaters.

[milvushina]

Excellent insight from all!

 

Sometimes I think cheaters are just people who should have just left earlier. Then they wouldn't be cheaters.

 

 

I agree with this, and with the good posts from so many other people. I got accused way back in this thread of blaming the victim. But that's not true, I just don't think that cheating is automatically worse than any other relationship transgression, like verbal abuse, public humiliation, etc., just because it is cheating. And I did say that my ex husband was a jerk.

But:

*He is responsible for his actions

*I am responsible for my actions

 

I blame him for making me miserable, but I don't have to feel guilty for what he did. I felt guilty because by my own standards I'd done something unethical. It just gets complicated because I also felt like he deserved to feel hurt, too.

[bo123]

A is selfish and hurtful on everyone. I've learned this first hand. I had a relationship with a MM for 2 years...and a child. The person that you thought was the greatest thing end up being the most horrible person you can imagined. We no longer communicate. This is my first time on a site like this. I'm going through hell because of this and so is his W. No one wins at the end. He was selfish, I was selfish. I'm so glad saw him for what he is.

[Walk]

I was thinking about the posters who said they would never date a cheater, and it reminds me of how thankful I am that my bf gave me a chance. And he knows the full story of my sordid past, not just the bits and pieces I tell on here.

 

Anyway... I know I called my ex a bastard and stuff.. and I am grateful i'm no longer with him. But I do hope he is able to overcome what happened and have a happy, healthy and trusting relationship with someone else. At one point after I left, he said he understood why I cheated... I can only hope that he really did understand, and used that knowledge to better his future relationship. He was never left in doubt as to why I was so unhappy there. I expressed myself fully for several years. He also used my past words as proof that he understood why I was so unhappy... So he has the tools he needs in order to understand what went wrong. But if he continues to pass off his future SO's problems as invalid, continues the same behaviors, then he's going to destroy his next relationship, and his next. Even if he's never cheated on again... he won't have the type of relationship he craves. I would hope he'd focus on improving himself, as well as forgiving me for my part in the wrong. Neither of us can change the past, all we can do is evaluate our own actions, and make changes within ourselves. We can't change the other person, nor take back the pain.

 

And I would suggest that for those who are, or who know someone who is still stuck in the pain of a past SO cheating, that he or she be encouraged to go to counseling to find better ways to deal with it. For their own personal happiness, and the health of any future relationships.

[shoedevil]

And I would suggest that for those who are, or who know someone who is still stuck in the pain of a past SO cheating, that he or she be encouraged to go to counseling to find better ways to deal with it. For their own personal happiness, and the health of any future relationships.

If only counseling was like medicine: an instant cure. When you have to talk a friend down from suicide because he thinks his life is over, it tends to leave an indelible mark as to the effects cheating can cause. Though you've done a good job of explaining what led you to do what you did, I don't think anyone is ever forced to cheat, no matter how awful the other person might be. As in the case of my friend, his ex-girlfriend simply lost interest in him after 3+ years, and didn't have the courage to break up with him before she started seeing other men (and having them over for visits). Was it a disease in their relationship that caused all this? I don't think so. Just her way of ending things on her own terms.

[Mz. Pixie]

If only counseling was like medicine: an instant cure. When you have to talk a friend down from suicide because he thinks his life is over, it tends to leave an indelible mark as to the effects cheating can cause. Though you've done a good job of explaining what led you to do what you did, I don't think anyone is ever forced to cheat, no matter how awful the other person might be. As in the case of my friend, his ex-girlfriend simply lost interest in him after 3+ years, and didn't have the courage to break up with him before she started seeing other men (and having them over for visits). Was it a disease in their relationship that caused all this? I don't think so. Just her way of ending things on her own terms.

 

I never said it was a disease in his personal relationship, I just said that's usually the case. There are exceptions to this rule- and lots of times it depends on the emotional intelligence and age of the person involved. The only two people that know exactly what goes on in a relationship are the two people involved. No matter how well you knew your friend and their so. There could have been things you were unaware of at play in this.

 

I'm sorry that your friend was that hurt and that you had to "talk him down" yet if he was going to resort to suicide then he seriously needed some counseling on being co dependent even before this happened. Or he had severe self esteem issues.

 

How old was he when this happened?

 

In my opinion, there are much worse things to experience. Such as the death of your spouse, a terminal illness for yourself or a loved one, child sexual abuse, etc. People can argue all they want to about that- but as I've experienced sexual abuse, along with every kind of abuse that there is- and still survived, I know it's possible. It would take a whole lot more than the end of a relationship to make me want to die.

 

My husband's wife left him for another man. In fact, she was pregnant by the OM before their divorce was final. Yet, did he want to try to kill himself?? No. Did he blame all of their relationship problems on her?? No. He went to counseling alone to learn about what he'd done wrong and what he could do to make himself a better person later on in his relationships.

[Mz. Pixie]

I was thinking about the posters who said they would never date a cheater, and it reminds me of how thankful I am that my bf gave me a chance. And he knows the full story of my sordid past, not just the bits and pieces I tell on here.

 

 

I can completely relate to this. How unusual is it that my husband I ended up together when he'd been the BS in his marriage and I was the WS in mine.

 

He could have judged me, he didn't. He never even brings it up. He knew my situation and what I was dealing with at the time. He could have not trusted me but he's never even doubted me before. There is no paranoia on his part. He knows I won't walk down that path again because of the hurt that it caused.

 

Even if I did I know he could live through it. That no one person can be the reason someone gets up everyday or that no one person can be everything to their mate. That's unhealthy.

[shoedevil]

I never said it was a disease in his personal relationship, I just said that's usually the case. There are exceptions to this rule- and lots of times it depends on the emotional intelligence and age of the person involved.

From what I've heard, the main reasons why people cheat are because they feel entitled to sex other people, they want to feel more attractive, or they are lonely. Maybe Walk is right - monogamy is a tiny little box that some people just can't stand being in for very long...

For example: http://edtech.mcc.edu/~gknapp/winter05/cheaters2/

The only two people that know exactly what goes on in a relationship are the two people involved. No matter how well you knew your friend and their so. There could have been things you were unaware of at play in this.

I wasn't the only one who had to intervene. And he was 25 at the time. Their relationship seemed ideal; they both agreed that they'd be together forever, through thick and thin. He invested everything in the relationship, supported her when things were tough. She was only his second (and longest) girlfriend. Afterwards, he told me that she'd been in a lot of very short-term relationships before they met, which would have been a red flag for me. She told me she didn't even consider it cheating, as she was no longer in love with him, despite the fact they were still living together. I guess he didn't get the message... You can make all the assumptions you want about his emotional state, but as others in this thread might suggest, it was more important to help him first instead of looking to shove some of the blame on his shoulders.