People who minimize cheating and affairs

[nicki]

Shoedevil, there might have been NO blame to put on his shoulders.

 

Sometimes a perfectly good mate gets cheated on. The cheater can be selfish and think that just because they want to screw someone, they can. And then they do. And keep coming back to their SO like nothing is wrong.

 

If there's a worse kind of cheating, then I think that it's that kind. No relationship problems that are expressed, no fights....just cheating for the sheer hell of it.

 

Then it's all about the cheater's bad character, and not at all about the person who got cheated on. The cheater would obviously cheat on any partner they had and never learn a thing.

[shoedevil]

Sometimes a perfectly good mate gets cheated on. The cheater can be selfish and think that just because they want to screw someone, they can. And then they do. And keep coming back to their SO like nothing is wrong.

The only reason I brought up his situation was because I thought this thread was about people who minimize the impact of cheating, and his ex-girlfriend fit the bill perfectly. But thanks, you might be right. He's not always the easiest guy to get along with, but nobody deserves to be humiliated like that. I often hear on these boards that when a relationship ends or someone cheats, that it's never only one person's fault. Which I think is true in some cases. But this situation was so crazy, even I didn't believe what he told me until I'd talked to her. She didn't express much concern over the whole affair. Maybe she didn't believe he was really that broken up over it...

[Mz. Pixie]

I wasn't the only one who had to intervene. And he was 25 at the time. Their relationship seemed ideal; they both agreed that they'd be together forever, through thick and thin. He invested everything in the relationship, supported her when things were tough. She was only his second (and longest) girlfriend. Afterwards, he told me that she'd been in a lot of very short-term relationships before they met, which would have been a red flag for me. She told me she didn't even consider it cheating, as she was no longer in love with him, despite the fact they were still living together. I guess he didn't get the message... You can make all the assumptions you want about his emotional state, but as others in this thread might suggest, it was more important to help him first instead of looking to shove some of the blame on his shoulders.

 

Again, I never said that it applied to his personal situation. I also wasn't implying you should have placed blame on that person's shoulders. In reality though, the help he needed was hospitalization- if he was indeed threatening to kill himself. That is the kind of stuff that only a qualified mental health professional is qualified to handle.

 

Usually people can look back and say to themselves that "Hey you know, I saw red flags and perhaps I should have.........." later on. Not at the moment of course. My H probably never thought of that fact as soon as he found out his exwife was cheating. But later on with counseling and thought and reading some relationship books he came to find out that he had things that he needed to accept responsibility for. It's a growth process in relationships.

 

I would say that a vast majority of affairs are not merely because the cheating partner is looking for sex. Have you ever read any relationship books that deal with the concept of the love bank? His Needs/Her Needs by Willard Harley is a good one as well as The Five Love Languages by Chapman.

 

In HNHN there are a couple of great chapters. One is about how a woman is vulnerable to an affair if her need for affection is not met- the other is about how many men will have an affair if their need for sex is not met within their relationship. The author is regarded as a marriage expert by those in the Christian faith. I believe that book has been out for over 15 years- it's been revised and updated several times.

 

To me minimizing the impact of an affair is saying "Oh it's no big deal- sex is sex" and stuff like that. I do not feel that I do that. I certainly have admitted that my actions were wrong and it shouldn't have happened. Since I do not have a magical time capsule that I can go back in time and change what happened, showing remorse is the best that I can do.

[Rooster_DAR]

Great posts from everyone, this thread has really taken off.

 

 

The original point went off topic here and there, but for the most part I think everybody seems to agree to a certain degree;) on the fundamental topic construed. I certainly did not post this thread to codemn or attack anybody, but too make people think about their decisions.

 

There are different reasons for cheating/affairs, some of them not as bad as others would seem, but in the end lot's of people get hurt. I suppose the worse kind to me are the types of cheating that hurt a person that has been good in the relationship, and did not deserve the sudden onset of losing his/her partner to infidelity.

 

There are way too many selfish people out there, I see it over and over again and these people seem to justify their mistakes with excuses or minimization. People who cheat can still be good people, and honestly I could date someone who cheated as long as they understand why it happened and come to terms with it. I can honestly tell you from experience, lots of cheaters will protect their actions by even going as far as blaming the O/P for the whole thing so it makes them feel better about what they have done, even if the other person was a saint and did nothing wrong.

 

Great posts everyone!

 

Cheers!

[Walk]

There are way too many selfish people out there, I see it over and over again and these people seem to justify their mistakes with excuses or minimization. People who cheat can still be good people, and honestly I could date someone who cheated as long as they understand why it happened and come to terms with it. I can honestly tell you from experience, lots of cheaters will protect their actions by even going as far as blaming the O/P for the whole thing so it makes them feel better about what they have done, even if the other person was a saint and did nothing wrong.

 

Actually, thanks for posting this thread. Made me realize I still need to work on not getting defensive about stuff that isn't individualized against me. I'm horrible about that. Still need a lot of work in that area. *sigh*

 

Reminded me that I'm Extremely Lucky to have such a wonderful trusting bf.

 

And reminded me that everyone is an individual. Although some of us grow and learn from life, there are others that won't. Ever. I know I've seen those on this board too. The ones that are positive that absolutely nothing was their fault. That they did no wrong. <-the cheater, not the cheated on. I try not to read those, or talk to those people, so sometimes I forget that that type of person exists.

[shoedevil]

And reminded me that everyone is an individual. Although some of us grow and learn from life, there are others that won't. Ever. I know I've seen those on this board too. The ones that are positive that absolutely nothing was their fault. That they did no wrong. <-the cheater, not the cheated on. I try not to read those, or talk to those people, so sometimes I forget that that type of person exists.

The double-edged sword of living in a free society: we have the freedom to act selfishly and emotionally hurt others. Makes it difficult for decent people looking for loving relationships to find each other. You don't know who to trust, but I guess you have to take chances in life... though a relationship background check isn't such a bad idea.

[Rooster_DAR]

Agreed, everyone has to take responsibility at some point whether it's the cheater or the cheated for failure of the relationship. I certainly understand where I went wrong with my EX, although I believe she was really the one that impacted the breakup.

 

Cheers!

[Walk]

, although I believe she was really the one that impacted the breakup.

 

 

Good terminology for it. "impacted"... I like that.

[Flyin in Clouds]

Out of curiousity... if I am a "sinner" forever, then you believe I will always sin?

I thought I made the point clear in my previous post. I shall try again...

 

If one robs a bank, one will always be a bank robber, even if one never robs a bank again.

 

Once one has cheated, one will always be cheater, even if one never cheats again.

 

does that make it clear? You can't become not a cheater, once you have. You can never cheat again, once you have. You can cheat only once, but you will always be a cheater. How many different ways can I say that?

 

Either I'm bad, and sin.. or I'm not bad, and I can change.

You were bad and can not be bad again... but you can also be bad again. How many cheaters have said, "I never thought I would cheat but I did."? Well if they did once, when they thought they never could, they could again even though they thought they learned and won't ever again.

 

You talk as though no one has the capacity to change who they are. That we are fixed into a set path, and we might as well give up trying to be better people because we either are, or we aren't. What a sad way to live life....

It is pretty hard to change one's basic character. Alcoholics for instance never say they are "cured" - just that they have remained sober for a certain period of time.

 

I think, from a psychological view point... what you really fear is that you will cheat.

No, no... what I fear is my wife will cheat and I'll never know about it and/or it will be "too late" to do any cheating of my own.

 

You comment about wanting to see your wifes friend in a skimpy bathing suit.

I have and do see her in a skimpy bathing suit. Well OK jogging cloths. We (wife, friend and myself) did a marathon and we trained for it together. She bought this very skimpy pair of shorts for me - as a joke. So I got her back by buying her an equally skimpy pair of ladies shorts and a sexy running bra and challenged her to wear them. And she's got better looking legs than mine. I said I'd wear the shorts she got me if she'd wear the short and bra I got her. So far she hasn't worn the shorts... Long story short, she's a very good friend, we've known her almost as long as we've been married. Our kids grew up together. Her H (that she treated like sh*t) and I were business partners. We went on famliy vacations together. He and I even discussed swapping wives. We both agreed the women would kill us if we mentioned it so we never did. Does that give you an idea of the friendship? When her marriage fell apart as I thought it would (her father cheated on her mother repeatedly, so all men were evil - so she treated her husband like sh*t in some weird way to assure his ever lasting loyalty... which of course after 10 years he'd had enough and had an affair.. ) it was rather devasting to me, because I knew the pain they were all going through, him, her, their kids. I would have done anything to help them avoid that. She needed a job so I talked my wife into hiring her. She and my wife over 25 years of friendship would follow each other from job to job. One working for the other at varioius times. He remarried and I talked to her a lot about finding another man for herself - moving on as he had, that she really needed that and to stop thinking of all men being like her father and her ex. She was exteremly bitter about the divorce (even though I thought the failure of the marriage was due, in large part, to her mistreatement of him - long before the cheating occured). I felt if she'd find a decent guy it would help her get over it, stop the war between her and her ex and she'd get on with life better. And now she has a new guy and I talk to her all the time about not mistreating him to avoid a repeat like her H. I help her every way I can.

 

Do you know of the three kinds of love? Philia (friendship or brotherly/sisterly love), eros or erotic love and agape (self sacrificing love). Do you think it possible for a man to love more than one woman or have different kinds of love for different women? Am I not supposed to feel any kind of love for anyone except my wife? Why must love be constrained?

To see her give you a private belly dance... Your wife would be there for proprieties sake.. but you have lust for the friend, or you never would have mention it.

Well you missed the point. It was to have a threesome ... not exactly for proprieties sake... The belly dancing was just the warm up... :eek: And the belling dancing was 20 years ago... I don't think either of them remember how to do it. But my wife did have the full outfit.

 

But none of that is considered cheating. Yes I have "lust" for the OW... so like Jimmy Carter I have lusted after other women in my heart... which is technically in the Christian world a sin, but sorry, that's how I feel about this woman. I've known her forever and I'm attracted. "Did I have sex with that woman. No,....... but I'd like to..."

 

... you've even justified kissing another person because it's under the mistletoe.

Yes, because wife gets to kiss the other guys...

I'm bad.. you're the good guy here.

A kiss under the mistletoe is a little different than doing the nasty under the sheets. Unless of course the cheating was done in full view of your H and a crowd of people.

[Flyin in Clouds]

...

See, in your way of thinking what he did to me wasn't as bad as what I did to him. I can understand that, but truly it depends on which side of the issue you're standing on. ...

 

If you're the one enduring it and asking for counseling and such over and over and over- it begins to equal your spouse not loving you or caring about you. I'm not saying what I did wasn't wrong, or extremely painful but I also endured alot of pain as well.

 

This is not about who did what to whom to justify something or as you'd like to see it "tit for tat". It's about both people making mistakes in a marriage and it ultimately not working out.

 

Mz. P, your marriage was shot. Get divorce. Depends on which side your on? I'm sure your H has a similar point of view. From his side ...

 

so you both endured pain or caused each other pain. In a way, he cause you pain, so you felt justified in causing him an equal amount of pain. And please don't way you didn't know cheating would hurt him. It had to have crossed your mind. Or maybe you didn't care that you'd hurt him because of the hurt he had inflicted upon you.

 

If the marriage isn't working out, get out. You had no intention of fixing things up after your affair did you? Your marriage was over before your affair started. And so would you have cared at all if your H started see other women?

[SueBee3490]

Shoedevil, there might have been NO blame to put on his shoulders.

 

Sometimes a perfectly good mate gets cheated on. The cheater can be selfish and think that just because they want to screw someone, they can. And then they do. And keep coming back to their SO like nothing is wrong.

 

If there's a worse kind of cheating, then I think that it's that kind. No relationship problems that are expressed, no fights....just cheating for the sheer hell of it.

 

Then it's all about the cheater's bad character, and not at all about the person who got cheated on. The cheater would obviously cheat on any partner they had and never learn a thing.

 

Nicki - you are so true with this. It describes my situation. I think it is the worst kind of cheating because you just can't make any sense of why the person cheated. I don't condone cheating but at least I could "understand" if we weren't having sex, fighting all the time, etc. as to why he'd look elsewhere. We were very much in love got along great in every way so when I found out he cheated, I tried to come up with my own reasons as to why.....am I not pretty or sexy enough? does he not like my personality? etc. He kept coming back to me saying how great I was and I ate it all up thinking this guy really loved me. I look back now and really wish there would have been a "reason" as to why he was cheating. Sure he acts sorry now about the whole thing but only because I believe he got caught. I'm sure if I didn't find out, he'd still be doing it behind my back. He is one of those that will never learn because he doesn't believe he did anything wrong. In his words, "we weren't married" so he could date others. Problem is, he didn't tell me he wanted to date others.

[Woggle]

If people can't stay faithful they should stay single.

[amerikajin]

Once one has cheated, one will always be cheater, even if one never cheats again.

 

does that make it clear? You can't become not a cheater, once you have. You can never cheat again, once you have. You can cheat only once, but you will always be a cheater. How many different ways can I say that?

 

As much as I don't want to agree with this statement, I do. I think that if someone shows the capacity to do something once, there's always the possibility they'll do it again. The best predictor of future behavior is...past behavior.

 

I guess the reason I "don't want to agree with this statement" is because I'd like to think that people can change, and I guess they can. But as you point out, once you've shown the capacity to do something like cheating once, how can anyone say that you won't do it again? Cheating isn't something you cure, it's conduct. Over time, someone can make their permanent record look better on the whole, but the blemish is always there.

 

Would I marry someone I knew to have cheated on their ex? Probably not, for the simple reason that an employer would be reluctant to hire an employee who has a conviction for theft. Why hire that guy when I can wait for someone who doesn't have a criminal history to come along? It just makes better sense. Does that mean that people who have cheated once before can't learn from the lesson and move on with their lives? No...surely people can and do. I suppose that if someone were completely forthright with me about it, I might be willing to give that person a chance if I felt that had indeed changed. Emphasis on 'might'.

 

Typically, though, people don't do that. People sweep it under the rug and hope nobody ever finds out, which is understandable given the prejudice against cheaters. But their record of adultery in addition to their keeping it a secret from me would automatically end the relationship were I to find out about it before we got married. Don't know what I'd do if I were to find out afterward.

 

But none of that is considered cheating. Yes I have "lust" for the OW... so like Jimmy Carter I have lusted after other women in my heart... which is technically in the Christian world a sin, but sorry, that's how I feel about this woman. I've known her forever and I'm attracted. "Did I have sex with that woman. No,....... but I'd like to..."

 

I think it's easy for people with attraction to act upon that attraction if they keep giving themselves opportunities to sin.

[Flyin in Clouds]

...

When i met my ex I had 250,000 dollars in retirement. When I left the ex, I owed $180,000. I owned nothing. Just the clothes on my back and a $4,000 car that I owed $3700 on. I left him 3 times. The first time he found out where I was staying and showed up. He beat on the door and screamed until I let him in, and he promised I would never leave him again. He'd never let me go.. The second time I left, he called me at work so much that my boss finally screamed at me that he was going to fire me if I didn't resolve this interference with my work. The third time i left, my ex called me and detailed out how he was going to take the shotgun and blow his brains out. How it would be my fault. That we were happy, and *I* was crazy. I had problems.

And that point I would have said go ahead, pull the trigger.

 

While I was busting my ass, my ex was at the bar blowing all our money.

That's grounds for a divorce, not cheating.

 

My ex looked at me, adn said "God damn, look where you're going."

OK, I would have left right then... and not looked back. Or at least determined that was it. That's not a loving, husband-wife, us against the world relationship. That's abuse plain and simple. Splitsville. That isn't even how "just friends" treat each other for God's sake. That isn't even how stangers are supposed to treat each other...

 

My ex, refused to sign the divorce papers, and stalked me for nearly a year afterward.

Restraining order time...

 

But, again, I'm just justifying my actions....

I cheated. I'm selfish. I should burn in hell for eternity, and be cast from civilization as a traitor, never again to interact with the "pure" and the "morally righteous".

No stupid is more like it for not getting a restraining order with the divorce. Or moving far, far away. Guys like your ex are sick bastards no doubt about it, but cheating on a sick bastard control freak could have gotten you killed.

 

I actually did feel this way for about a year afterward. But I don't anymore....

As abusive as your guy was I think it was plenty reason to leave him, but I don't think it was grounds for cheating.

 

I know it might be hard to leave but there isn't any other choice when their is that kind of abuse going on.

 

See the friend of my wife is almost as abusive as your exH was. They once had an argument and she kicked him out of the bedroom and told him to sleep on an inflatable mattress. She then took a kitchen knife to it and cut it up so it deflated. Not a shotgun maybe but still pretty violent. But he was the crazy one and she did nothing wrong. So he cheated on her instead of getting a divorce which lead to things getting really messy. As abusive as she was I don't think he was right to cheat on her.

 

I'm insulted by Flyin's comments about how I am no better than Charles Manson, or Son of Sam.

Go back and look at it. You missed the at the end. It meant I was laughing at the comment I made. Of course Charles Mason, et. al, are worse than cheaters.

 

He's taking the "holier than thou" to heart and running with it. Even though he thinks its just fine to oogle his wife's best friend, or tell record producer that he would love to kiss her curvy little ass and how hot she is....

My vow with my wife was I wouldn't sleep with other women, not that I woudln't "oogle" other women. (She happens to be my friend too). And RP - is hot. So what? I can't tell a woman that? That isn't betraying my wife. Again I'm not sleeping with RP, nor would I. The kiss her ass somment was likewise a meanless flirtatous remark, well within the bounds of our "contract".

 

I feel I'm morally superior to Flyin. So, I guess I'm just as much at fault for what I've said I'm upset at... But I would like to see people try to understand, they don't have to agree.. just listen with an open mind and then make a decision based on what they belief.. not just launch into a "I'm better than you are" tirade.

I do listen to you. Just don't agree that cheating was the right way to end your relationship no matter how bad the relationship got. And your ex and his friend. Still friends?

 

And your first post on the thread (no. 5) was just dripping with bitterness and a "I was justified" attitude... with no explanation at all why your ex was such a bastard.

 

So here you are in a bad relationship and the thing that needs to happen is get out of it. And cheating and staying in the relationship is some how moving toward ending the relationship?

 

 

 

However, I will clear up a question, I didnt' cheat for revenge. Nor out of spite, hatred, malice or pre-determined thought of harm to another individual.

? Then what? Just of the hell of it? Come on you didn't hate your ex? Have a little malice toward him for all his mistreatment, stealing your retirement money, no spite, no revenge? But you left the bastard and hope he's suffering.

 

What if, hypothetically, ME cheating on the ex was HIS poetic justice in life. ... But what if he really was that bad?

So aren't you asking that because he was a rotten guy, he deserved it? So you are saying that under certain circumstances cheating is justified. Aren't you?

 

it's the over and over insinuation that people that have cheated are right up there with criminals. Last I checked you couldn't really go to jail for that.

Yeah, well in some states there are still laws on the books that do make adultery a crime punishable with jail time. (discussed on another thread someplace ...)

 

and everyone makes a mistake-

That is a very trite excuse for cheating - we all make mistakes. Yes, I sometime forget to take out the garbage. I don't forget I'm married, made a vow not to sleep with other women and wind up naked in bed with other women...

 

Cheating on your taxes is a crime that you can go to jail for in it's extremes. But who am I to say that you're the most horrible person on the planet??

Martha Stewart. Not a nice lady...

 

 

Am I to say that I'm better than people who cheat on their taxes??

Well with regard to paying your taxes you are better than Martha aren't you? hmmm... no hers was securities fraud... OK, you haven't committed that crime either so yeah... you are better than her.

 

I think what people have a hard time coping with on a reverse affair like this, is that after the first affair has been discovered and addressed, then there is discussion, comprimise, and agreements made as to how each of them will treat the marriage and their partners.

Bingo... and that discussion with me is I'm free to have other women... We can stay married for a lot of reasons, kids, finances, whatever, but the part about being faithful on my part - nope, been there, done that once, NOT going to do that again. Not going to be fooled again. Going to do some fooling around of my own.

 

A full disclosure clause for the woman,

That's what we had to begin with - full disclosure with one another - honesty, not lying, cheating and deceiving. Now why on earth would I believe she'd fully disclose things this time around when she didn't before? I'm supposed to take her word for it? Been there done that too.

 

So for the man to then have an affair, what he's saying is that it's okay for him, but not for her. He's already made her jump through hoops to keep him from leaving...

Yeap and this is just one more she has to deal with... sorry, she brought it on her self. Wasn't my doing that made her cheat. She choose to.

 

He tells her he forgives her, but then shows that that was all a lie by attempting to get back at her through the same means she hurt him with.

I forgive her - but with conditions. Forgiveness isn't condition free. and what other kinds of hoops would she be jumping through anyway? Having email monitored? Cell phone's checked? Just what is she having to do that she shouldn't have done all along?

 

He lied about forgiving her, he lied about wanting to work it out.. etc.

No no, I forgive her. And we'll work it out... so long as she can forgive me for doing the exact same thing she did. Otherwise why should I forgive her? Give her a get out jail free card? To prove I love her or something? Sorry she has to prove she loves me, regardless of what I do.

 

So to say a woman won't forgive a H for doing the same thing she did, is not really telling the whole story. It's a very simplistic way of looking at it.

Oh well, excuse me for looking at it simply.

 

No trust could ever be rebuilt after that.

Why not? She expected to rebuild trust. And it's not like I'd actually be violating any "trust" because it would be up front there was none. We'd be living in a trustless, loveless, merely financial for the kids marriage. You don't think I could acutally love her again? After what she did? And it's not the same as your case Walk. I wasn't mistreating her. I wasn't telling her when she hurt herself to watch were she was going. No I'd be concerned about taking her to the hospital or making sure it wasn't a serious injury.

 

There was a renewed promise of effort from both of them in order to address the problems and potentially save the marriage.

Wait, I didn't do anything wrong. She stepped out. That wasn't my fault. That was her choice. I didn't make her do it. And if she wants to save the marriage, she has to be willing to tolerate my affairs from then on. Otherwise no deal. I kick her worthless ass out immediately. She's the cheater. She didn't even have the decency to tell me. I had to hear it from "a friend". She could have given me a fatal STD.

 

You're point is moot Flyin. Try something different.

No it's not moot. It's exactly what I've been saying. Women want one set of rules for themselves and a different set for their men. Screw that.

 

I don't have any fondness for Mr. Clouds or RecordProducer. Sexism from either gender is equally distasteful, not to mention immature.

Sexism? How is demanding equal treatment in a relationship sexism?

 

It's so much easier to blame the cheating partner than to accept responsibility for their own actions.

So what you are saying is that the BS is the cause of the WS's cheating. Blame the victim.

 

Now if the BS is a total bum as in Walk's case... that's maybe one thing.

 

BUT how many BS say I treated her like an angle and she cheated on me. How many are totally blindsided by their WS's cheating and destroyed by it? But of course you all say, well that BS was no angle, they had to be doing something wrong. Maybe they were. But if they didn't know it... They are supposed to take responsibilty.

 

Naw I'm sorry, cheating is never the fault of the BS. Never. It is always the choice, mistake, bad choice, whatever of the WS. They don't have to cheat. They can walk out.

 

But the minute that I had an affair it let his very real wrongs be minimized because of that.

That is because the cheating was worse Mz. P.... it was. Or what you are saying is his wrong equalled your wrongs. I.e. you are minimizing what you did as not that wrong in light of his wrongs.

 

Yes, what I did was terribly wrong and I shouldn't have done it- but no more than he should have done to me what he did.

No, that's wrong. You should never have cheated. You should have divorce first and then more than likely everyone would have thought he was the bad guy or that you two were simpy incompatible. You would not have been the bad guy. What you did was more wrong.

 

Who is to minimize someone's pain and the amount of pain they are capable of handling??? Who is to say whose pain is worse???

Pain has nothing to do with it. You or Walk could be suffering terribly. Your H's not at all. So get out of the relationship. That's pretty simple.

 

Now would either of you repeat your cheating if your current H's turned rotten one day? Or would you simply leave the marriage, get a divorce before cheating?

 

I have noticed that a majority of the threads of this nature are opened by male posters- have you noticed the same?

I do believe that cheating on a guy hurts a guy far more deeply than a man cheating on a woman. So why be surprised that men are concerned about cheating? To some extend a man's cheating can be excused because - "well he's just a man and that's how men are... " So a woman can just chalk it up to that. But when a man's wife cheats on him, particularly if he's deeply in love with his angle, well it destroys his whole world. Many women if a guy cheats can kick him out the door without too much agonizing over it. But lots of guys on here when their wife has treated them horribly and cheated on them and abused them still can't let go. ...

 

but i can understand why they wouldn't want to deny themselves of an opportunity to find some love and closeness....BUT, by doing that it means the marriage is OVER and it's time to get divorced.

In olden days, of arranged marriages, the marriage was a financial contract, the joining of two estates, or a political union. The married couple understood they didn't love each other and they would each have lovers on the side. Today, such a marriage of connivence can go on after one or both have an affair. For the sake of the kids or the 401k. The affair just means the marriage changes.

 

because the guy was an a**hole to me.

Do guys ever feel women are a**holes to them? And are they ever justified in that feeling?

 

I just don't think that cheating is automatically worse than any other relationship transgression, like verbal abuse, public humiliation, etc., just because it is cheating.

Cheating is worse. Way worse. Because it's done behind someone's back and they simply don't know. Those other things, bad as they are, are done in front of someone and both people know about them and thus they can defend themselves or do something about it. But the BS can't do anything about the cheating because they don't know it's happening. They can't defend themselves or even leave the relationship and start a new one because they simply don't know they are being betrayed. That is why it's worse than verbale abuse. You can decide to leave after being publicly humililate. With cheating you won't know you're being humiliated until it's long done.

 

But if he continues to pass off his future SO's problems as invalid, continues the same behaviors, then he's going to destroy his next relationship, and his next.

So Walk if a wife ignores her H's needs - for years and years, blows him off without blowing him... is abusive verbally, does that justify him having an affair? Is he not a bad guy for cheating on her? Does it really work both ways? For men too? What if your exH's future gf or wife treats him like dirt. As bad as he treated you. Should he have an affair?

 

 

When you have to talk a friend down from suicide because he thinks his life is over, it tends to leave an indelible mark as to the effects cheating can cause.

No joke. And it doesn't even have to be cheating for that kind of result. A woman breaks up with a guy that worships the ground she walks on for no apparent reasons - no other guy involved.

 

I'm sorry that your friend was that hurt and that you had to "talk him down" yet if he was going to resort to suicide then he seriously needed some counseling on being co dependent even before this happened. Or he had severe self esteem issues.

When a man is so deeply in love with one woman, that his whole world is built around her, his entire future, I suppose that is being "co-dependent"? What women don't realize is the horrible effect they have on men.

 

I've had three women. Everyone one of them was to be "the last woman" for me. When my high school girlfriend broke up with me after 4 years (two in college at seperate universities) my world ended. I wanted to die. There was no point in going on living because the only reason I was living was for her. The only reason I was going to college was to get a good job so we could get married, raise a family and live happily ever after. She was gone, all the motivation for living was gone. I climbed into a bottle. It took a year to climb back out. College was long gone by then. And to this day it still hurts. All she said was "we weren't right for each other". After four years of being right for each other. Did I mistreat her someway? Say something unkind? Forget her birthday? No... Did I forget to write her letters? No - every day. So why?

 

Even if I did I know he could live through it. That no one person can be the reason someone gets up everyday or that no one person can be everything to their mate. That's unhealthy.

The thing is Mz. P. none of my subsequent relationship have been like the first. None have had that intensity. GF no two. She did cheat. Admited it. Didn't really phase me much. Wasn't but a couple months I hooked up with Mrs. Flyin. And if she left... well I'd go on. But my feelings for Mrs. Flyin aren't the same as for my first love. It's just not the same. The deepth and commitment just aren't the same. Is it healthier? Maybe. But the intensity... Is my wife better for me than the other two. You bet.

[SueBee3490]

I do believe that cheating on a guy hurts a guy far more deeply than a man cheating on a woman. So why be surprised that men are concerned about cheating? To some extend a man's cheating can be excused because - "well he's just a man and that's how men are... " So a woman can just chalk it up to that. But when a man's wife cheats on him, particularly if he's deeply in love with his angle, well it destroys his whole world. Many women if a guy cheats can kick him out the door without too much agonizing over it. But lots of guys on here when their wife has treated them horribly and cheated on them and abused them still can't let go. ...

 

Sorry but this statement is very sexist. I am a female who was cheated on by my bf (now husband) and it destroyed my life. I will never accept the fact that he's a man so he can stick his dick in other women, because, "hey, that's just the way men are." Screw that - I was deeply hurt and sunk into a depression over his cheating. You may have been in love with you angel - well I was in love with my angel too and it hurt just as bad.

[Woggle]

Sorry but this statement is very sexist. I am a female who was cheated on by my bf (now husband) and it destroyed my life. I will never accept the fact that he's a man so he can stick his dick in other women, because, "hey, that's just the way men are." Screw that - I was deeply hurt and sunk into a depression over his cheating. You may have been in love with you angel - well I was in love with my angel too and it hurt just as bad.

 

I agree but it is just as sexist when women think they have the right to cheat because they are female. Many women feel they are not to be held accountable for anything. I know after my ex-wife cheated and she wanted to work things out after I had filed for divorce she had this mentality of how dare I say no to her because she had the right cheat. In her mind she was unhappy and somehow tha was my fault so she had the right to cheat and after she decided that the single life wasn't so great I was supposed to just be so grateful she wanted to come back. I think that is why she turned so violent. In her mind she was entitled to me and I denied her that. It is wrong for either gender to cheat.

[SueBee3490]

But their record of adultery in addition to their keeping it a secret from me would automatically end the relationship were I to find out about it before we got married. Don't know what I'd do if I were to find out afterward.

 

What would you do if this happened to you amerikajin? I know you are referring to finding out someone you dated had actually cheated in previous relationships, but what if you found out after marrying this person, that they cheated on you during dating? This is what happened to me and after almost 4 years of dwelling on it, I know I can't stay with my husband because his cheating and not at least telling me before we married. I think my respect for him went down the tubes with my love because he could have told me this very important piece of info before marrying me, but he's a selfish coward and I truly believe he never loved me, only himself.

[SueBee3490]

I agree but it is just as sexist when women think they have the right to cheat because they are female. Many women feel they are not to be held accountable for anything. I know after my ex-wife cheated and she wanted to work things out after I had filed for divorce she had this mentality of how dare I say no to her because she had the right cheat. In her mind she was unhappy and somehow tha was my fault so she had the right to cheat and after she decided that the single life wasn't so great I was supposed to just be so grateful she wanted to come back. I think that is why she turned so violent. In her mind she was entitled to me and I denied her that. It is wrong for either gender to cheat.

 

Sounds like in your wife's mind she justified her cheating because she was unhappy. In my H's mind, he justified his cheating because we weren't married. He swears he'd never cheat while married but tells himself it was ok to cheat while dating. In either of our cases, our spouses are minimizing the cheating. My H doesn't seem to get through his skull, that his actions and behavior towards me while dating me are what I would consider if he were to ask me to marry him. If I knew he was cheating, I wouldn't have married him because I would know he had no respect for me. I don't know if his statement about never cheating while married is true or not because he does lie, he's a good actor and hides things well. As I've told him, how am I ever going to know when you're telling the truth, you lie so well.

[Woggle]

Sounds like in your wife's mind she justified her cheating because she was unhappy. In my H's mind, he justified his cheating because we weren't married. He swears he'd never cheat while married but tells himself it was ok to cheat while dating. In either of our cases, our spouses are minimizing the cheating. My H doesn't seem to get through his skull, that his actions and behavior towards me while dating me are what I would consider if he were to ask me to marry him. If I knew he was cheating, I wouldn't have married him because I would know he had no respect for me. I don't know if his statement about never cheating while married is true or not because he does lie, he's a good actor and hides things well. As I've told him, how am I ever going to know when you're telling the truth, you lie so well.

 

Your H is very much wrong. To me once you commit to a person with or without a ring then you should stay faithful. In my wife's minds she was justified in cheating because I ignored her while I was getting my degree even though I was just trying to get us out of the roach infested ghetto we were living in. After we finally bought a house and made it out of the slums then she remembered when I supposedly ignored her in the past and she was still bitter about it and wanted out.

[Rooster_DAR]

I supposedly ignored her in the past and she was still bitter about it and wanted out

 

Women never forget the mistakes you make against them no matter how large or small, it somehow gets burned into their brain and is not removable.

 

Cheers!

[Woggle]

Women never forget the mistakes you make against them no matter how large or small, it somehow gets burned into their brain and is not removable.

 

Cheers!

 

The thing is that I was trying to make a better life for us and she made me pay for it. I even went out of my way to take her out at least once a week but me having goals equated to ignoring her in her mind.

[magichands]

Women never forget the mistakes you make against them no matter how large or small, it somehow gets burned into their brain and is not removable.

The same goes for elephants.

[amerikajin]

What would you do if this happened to you amerikajin? I know you are referring to finding out someone you dated had actually cheated in previous relationships, but what if you found out after marrying this person, that they cheated on you during dating? This is what happened to me and after almost 4 years of dwelling on it, I know I can't stay with my husband because his cheating and not at least telling me before we married. I think my respect for him went down the tubes with my love because he could have told me this very important piece of info before marrying me, but he's a selfish coward and I truly believe he never loved me, only himself.

 

It sounds like you've already made up your mind.

 

I think that's something that has to be taken on a case-by-case basis. Judging by your comments, though, it seems like other things he's done along the way lead you to believe that he's a "selfish coward". Maybe the cheating incident just reinforces what you already believe about him.

[Flyin in Clouds]

Sorry but this statement is very sexist. I am a female who was cheated on by my bf (now husband) and it destroyed my life. I will never accept the fact that he's a man so he can stick his dick in other women, because, "hey, that's just the way men are." Screw that - I was deeply hurt and sunk into a depression over his cheating. You may have been in love with you angel - well I was in love with my angel too and it hurt just as bad.

 

Ah.. thanks for pointing out what you viewed as sexist.

 

I do believe there are significant differences in how men and women view sex, romance, emotional needs, etc. And those spill over into affairs and cheating. Nor did I say it was OK for a man to stick his ... where ever he wants. I do believe in general that men are viewed as being "less loyal" if I can put it that way - have more of a wandering eye? - than women. Women are generally viewed as wanting a stable relationship and not as interested in being promiscous and having lots of partners. Most women are not nymphomanics. Men, if they could get away with it, would have lots of women. Hence harems in some cultures.

 

And I didn't say that women were not terribly hurt by their spouses affair, but that men tend to be more deeply hurt than women. I may be wrong about that, but it seems to me women view their mates cheating differently than a man views his mates cheating. And I don't believe saying those differences exist is being sexist.

 

So as a woman what part of the cheating hurt you the most? Your husband having sex with another woman or your husband's emotional involvement with the other woman and his emotional abandonment of you? Was it the lying? What hurt you the most about his affair? I am sorry your husband did such a lousy thing. Don't get me wrong. Men that cheat on their wife or girlfriend are low down dirty rotten scum as far as I'm concerend. But I think there's a big difference in why women cheat versus why men cheat, how a woman are hurt by the SO's affair and how men are hurt by their SO's affair.

 

In your case, the question in my mind would always be, what else hasn't he told you?

[Rooster_DAR]

I do believe in general that men are viewed as being "less loyal" if I can put it that way - have more of a wandering eye? - than women. Women are generally viewed as wanting a stable relationship and not as interested in being promiscous and having lots of partners.

 

20 years ago I would have agreed with this for the most part, but we in fact live in a different world now, and I think there is no discrimination with the genders anymore. Statistically, it seems that women have caught up in this race.

 

Cheers!