so many reasons to end it, but I can't...

[ralph124c]

Sorry, this is a really long one.... I broke up with my girlfriend last spring after 1 1/2 years of manic highs and lows caused mainly by her being young, spoiled, needy, and insecure (I'm a young 39 and she's a VERY immature 24). Months of irrational fights almost all instigated by her over minor, ridiculous things, screaming, stomping, constant minor criticising etc.... alternating with sweetness, passion, and fun. The break-up led to violence when she punched me in the face when I went to comfort her as she was crying. Somehow, despite all this I missed her all summer and she missed me, to the point that she didn't even date. She told me she had changed, really learned from the devastation of being broken up with (the first time in her life, and I'm the first man she's really loved), and realised how bad her behaviour was, and started therapy. She came back to town (her last year at university) and we decided to see each other, to take things slow, see how we felt etc. This was all because of my waryness -- she would have just jumped right in. I was making an effort, inviting her places, giving her nice long hugs, making dinner for her, telling her there was 'some sort of committment' to seeing how things could go, but that because of the past I really needed to go slow, and so we didn't sleep together. She was impatient, but agreed. Then after just over a week she said she WOULD be interested in another guy if it weren't for me, trying to push me to a 'decision' I guess. Then I went away for a week, and when I got back found that she was at a different guy's house. She had met him only two days earlier, called him up, and arranged to go spend the night with him, driving two hours to get there. This was not some spontaneious, drunken kiss in a bar. BUT she said that when they started kissing she stopped him, realising how much she loves me. She said that was the reason she went - to test her feelings for me. Nevertheless, she did stay the night, sleep with him in his bed, and even kissed him goodbye the next morning when he went to work. She also was planning on staying another night until she heard my voice (though she also says she wasn't!). This is all despite the fact that I said if she started seeing someone else it would all be finished. Now she's pleading, crying, arguing that she 'didn't really do anything, we weren't even a couple, I just couldn't believe there was really a chance, your efforts weren't enough, you left me alone, I wasn't thinking' etc. She's said so many conflicting things that don't make sense, and I'm so full of anxiety and sleeplessness, and thinking if she wanted so much to show me that she's changed and can be a mature woman in a proper relationship, why did this happen? They aren't the actions of someone with a lot of love and respect for me or for us. The problem is, I do still love her in some messed up way, to the point that it makes me so upset to see her doing these self-destructive things and pushing away the one she loves. She's beautiful, intelligent, funny. I feel incapacitated -- like I can't be with her because there's this huge lack of trust, like a brick wall, and I'm even anxious around her and am not sure I can be intimate with her again. On the other hand, I just can't let go and can't ignore the feelings of love and compassion..... I know my indecision is hell for her, too. Does she deserve another chance (assuming I'm strong enough to give her one)? Am I blowing it out of proportion? Or am I just being a schmuck? Hope someone out there might have more prespective on this than I do. Thanks.

[peterparks]

Do you really want her back , or are you just clinging to a known and familiar relationship?

[Ssheena]

She's treating you like dog-poop. I mean seriously, would you treat her like that? You set some boundaries and you are finding excuses to not stick to what you said and give her another chance on top of another chance on top of another chance. Is she still going to therapy? You really want to be with someone that you can't trust? Why? Personally, I think you need to distance yourself from her unless you like being a parent instead of a lover. The relationship is NOT equal. Sorry for being harsh but immature is one thing, being a child is not. She needs to accept responsibilty for her behavior.

[Guest]

i would pay attention to the 'test' part..something about a kiss..then realizing they missed u so they do what? yes, jump into bed with that person. go figure. well, i think that, to be honest the time you both took seems to have created distance between each other and that's ok...because sometimes we don't realize that time is a real killer...and she 'tested' her feelings by kissing? that means she is wondering if she still sees you in a sexual way - well, sorry to break this to you both, but as soon as one needs to 'test' that;s never a good sign....i would suggest that you both just find some time, no rush, in the future, but not too far off, to just meet and get that awkward 'ewwww, its over' phase done with...go to chapters and maybe pick each other out a book as a 'closure' present and grab a triple triple - keep it short and sweet and polite and respectful, and playful and just be yourself...remember this is not the first time you were in a relationship that didn't work out...don't talk about that part - just have a relaxed time...so boring I KNOW

[Guest]

its totally over

 

[runs away crying]

 

boo....nooooooooooooooooot again!

 

teasing

 

well, i guess i have to state this one more time - i am just waiting until one natural born criminal has given me the sign that everything misplaced [and we both have the list] is returned and some folks [wink] get the hell outta my computer! lol

[D-Lish]

Your 39 and she's 24? And she's immature?

I would have a hard time reconciling with that. Maybe when she's 30 and you're 45 it would make more sense...

 

For me, I didn't even come into my own until my late 20's, early 30's.

 

There are so many red flags here you are describing. Loving her is one thing, but accepting a relationship without trust~ well that's an invitation to heartache. It's obvious she still has some growing up to do. If she truly loved you, she would be respectful of your need to take things slowly...and not run into the arms of another man so recklessly...without thinking about the consequences.

 

Yes, such behaviour could be immaturity, but it can also simply be a reflection of character.... as is the punching you in the face incident.

 

Yes, you said it yourself, there are so many reasons to end it. Seperate the heart from the head and make your decision that way.

 

It's not an easy choice, especially when you have deep feelings for someone. But, there needs to be trust and respect in a relationship. She isn't demonstarting either quality.

 

D

[ralph124c]

Thanks for these really insightful replies. Peterparks, I think I'm probably partly just not wanting to be alone, missing the great sex, the companionship, the crazy fun times -- stuff missing from the relationship with my last girfriend who was a couple of years older than me and ready to be middle-aged! I there might be some mid-life crisis stuff going on.

 

Ssheena, you're right -- I've honestly never treated her anything like how she's treated me. The thing is, she's so good at arguing, so clever, and can twist things around so much that I actually don't know what's right and true anymore (like if I'm over-reacting etc.). She is still in therapy, and from reading I've done she fits the borderline personality disorder profile to a tee. You're absolutely right about being like her parent -- the first one who's ever said 'no' to her (but can't quite stick to it all the time...).

 

D-Lish, you're right too! And it's hard to see how trust could be built up again. The thing is, I do actually think she loves me -- it's just that she's so self-centered that for her, love is what you can get out of a person and how they make you feel, rather than giving. Though lately she has shown concern for my well-being, which is a new thing. Something like that should be taken for granted in a relationship, and I'm all impressed with the progress! Pretty sick.... Like you said, I think she just doesn't have any conception of being responsible for her own actions and realizing that there are consequences. Also how you said it could be immaturity or really her character -- I've struggled a lot with that, is it behavior that can be changed or just WHO SHE IS? Then there's the whole problem of trying to change someone in the first place....

 

My problem has always been separating the heart from the head. How do you do it? You know, when I think about being with her I get this sinking feeling in my stomach and anxiety...and when i think about finishing it once and for all I get the exact same thing.

[ralph124c]

I'm having second thoughts about the second chance thing again, even though part of me still knows better.... Is the stuff I wrote in my first post really so bad, or is it understandable considering that she stopped herself?

 

I saw her yesterday outside a shop as I was crossing up the road. I Hesitated, then she looked away first and I kept going. Then she e-mailed, asked how I felt when I saw her and walked away, and I told her I felt lousy. She said she had seen me earlier, and was waiting outside

the shop for her friend hoping to see me again. She couldn't understand why I don't just feel relieved to no longer be with her (good point, actually!), told me how she was thinking of me as she watched one of the most beautiful sunsets of her life the other day. Then she wrote this:

 

> I'm glad that I was able and had the chance to

really

> love one person in my life. I don't know whether

this

> feeling will happen one day again, however,

> I appreciate that I had the opportunity and found a

> person who was there for me. I have to accept that

this

> person doesn't want me and I messed it up. And I

also

> have to understand that this person is not

> replaceable. You are unique, I told you that before

> You deserve to be happy and I hope you

> will be soon. I wish it was with me though.

>

>Take care.

 

What the hell am I supposed to do with all this?! I haven't replied. Don't know what to say. I can't believe it's all still so hard...I'm still thinking about her all the time. Any thoughts?

 

(I also posted about this in 'Coping' so apologies to those who read both threads)

[Ripples]

Ralph, that email smacks of self-pity and manipulation. If she was truly sorry would she try to lay the guilt on you that she, in not so many words, will never love or be loved again if she's not with you? It's smacks of martyrdom. A far more sincere email would have stated her sorrow at loosing you, an apology for the hurt she'd caused, a wish for you to be happy and a statement that she'll be ok.

 

Do you have irrefutable proof that she went into therapy? Even if you do, she may not have been in the right state of mind to benefit from it. I feel that if she had, she would be behaving in a much fairer way towards you.

 

If I were you, I would be trying very, very hard to get her out of my system.

 

Is there something within youthat needs to be needed? Does a girl who is emotionally 'broken' make you feel even more needed?

[ralph124c]

Thanks, Ripples. Guess you're right. She'll try anything, and if anger or tears don't work, she gets nice.

 

She hasn't been in therapy long, and who knows how honest she's been with the therapist -- she's evidently not with herself. I guess I was expecting miracles, but then again she kept telling me they had occurred.... I was just stupid enough to start believing her.

 

I'm struggling so much today. I replied to her e-mail saying that hers made me feel sad, frustrated, and disappointed that she couldn't act in ways that showed how much she supposedly cares and loves me. I've had no reply for over 24 hours, and I'm thinking maybe she got together with that guy after all. Of course technically it's none of my business, but I feel sick and shaken just thinking about it. I don't know how to get her out of my system. Back to the Coping forum, I guess....

 

I think you're right, too, about wanting to be needed. I have a history of girlfriends with emotional problems. Partly because I understand and relate to those feelings of being 'emotionally broken' myself, I think.

[InvisibleTouch]

Mr Ralph

 

Im going to be harsh so prepare yourself.

 

What the bl**dy hell are you doing?

 

Forget her. She is very young and you are getting on a bit.

 

She has not experienced half of what you should have experienced by now. But I bet that is the real problem. You haven't experienced half of what you should have in life. What have you been up to? How did you end up with this girl? Why? She is not the problem, you are. Do her a favour and let her live her young life and you do yourself a favour and go and find someone who has the maturity that you need in a partner right now.

 

[ralph124c]

InvisibleTouch, point taken, but you're mostly wrong about the situation. You make it seem like I'm some sort of old bastard corrupting an innocent young girl! For one thing, at 24 I was responsible and mature, and supporting a girlfriend and her kid. Age isn't everything, and there are a lot of mature 24-year-olds out there who don't behave like this. Also, I've done a hell of a lot of living (like 3 different careers, living in different countries, lots of travel, a lot of relationships....) and so has she for her age. In fact, one of the reasons I decided to give it a chance with her in the first place was that she was so clear that she wanted a real, committed, stable, mature relationship after having LOTS of boyfriends (all of whose hearts she broke, often by infidelity) and that she was really happy to find someone older because she couldn't relate to guys her own age. She convinced me, and that's my bad luck in the end. She also has emotional problems, gets hysterical, violent etc. So how am I the problem? Yeah, I am now, because I am (or was) perpetuating the situation, allowing it to make me miserable, but within the relationship it was very much mostly her, and she even admits that.

 

But yeah, you're right that maturity just isn;t there and I can't change that....

[NEWDAY]

I just don't see what you are getting out of all this. Would you put up with the same behaviour from a woman the same age as you? Or are her youthful charms that irresistible that you don't mind the shabby treatment? It seems that you are almost in awe of how she has broken so many hearts and yet will actually give you the time of day. Your posts are full of her needs, what about yours? She sounds like a lot of effort, but you seem unwilling to throw in the towel on this - what's up with that? Do you think the situation is going to improve as she gets older, if you can just hang in there?

[ralph124c]

Newday, you're right, and I'm actually not even considering any second chances at this point. It's over and there's been no contact for a few days and I'm pretty sure none will be coming. So, I've thrown in the towel, I just still feel like sh*t about the whole thing. Guess I need to be posting just on the Coping forum rather than here at this point. It was just that e-mail that threw me into a lot doubt. But yeah, I WAS hoping she'd change if I hung in there, and she was so persistent that she would, and made so many tearful, sincere promises. I just allowed myself to get sucked in without really realizing it, and made myself emotionally vulnerable to her... much to my regret. Yeah, back to Coping....

[Ssheena]

It's ok Ralph. I understand where you are coming from. I'll see ya over in the coping forum, cause I still am daily coping through my stuff too. I didn't know that she had a history of infidelity. That's a red flag to me.

Don't beat yourself up. It's not easy to let someone go sometimes and stop loving someone.

You're doing great.

[ralph124c]

Thanks once again, Ssheena. Yeah, there were SO many red flags, I was just so stupid to believe her words rather than just judging her actions (though often her words were horrible, too...!). I know I shouldn't beat myself up about it, though. After all, it was for positive motives like love and trust and respect. The problem is understanding WHY I put up with so much to get back so little for so long! No one I know understands it at all. Anyway, see you in Coping.....