What makes something romantic?

[quankanne]

usuallly the way you percieve yourself and the way others percieve you are two differing animals.

 

lol, I'm glad it works in my favor ... I think I'm more geeky than not!

[laguy10]

 

Actually, that wasn't my concern. My concern was that instead of being yourself and finding a compatible girl, you're trying to adapt your behavior based on generalizations. I don't want you to spend too much time on what all girls want and not enough on what your girl wants. It's fine to do general things in the beginning when you don't know someone well, but as the relationship goes on, if you continue to use generalizations instead of doing things specific to what that person likes, then you're not going to go very far.

 

Well, you see, my issue has been upon getting even the first date going, a lot of the time. I got frustrated, as I always seemed to be cast into the "friends" role, and so was trying to avoid that by just picking people up randomly, however, that does not go so well either, as I have a hard time getting women to call me back (once they give me their phone number, and I call them once). So, I figured I was doing something wrong, somewhere. I spoke with my brother last night, after just about coming to my frustration-breaking-point, and was amazed at his insight - he basically told me to try the friends thing again.....but this time NOT try to make a relationship out of it; just to let things progress. He added that by doing this, I will get valuable insight on how women see me, in general, and also that most likely I will meet someone I will want to know on a deeper level, but I should not be looking for that from the start. I am amazed at how it seems like I had figured this whole thing out, only to realize that I was totally skewed. I DO still think there are generalizations involved, about romanticism; but I see your point (and it is very similar to my brother's last night), and so I'm trying to take those into consideration too. Thanks for sharing your insights.

 

Your question was "How can a man create the same type of feelings in you....what can he do, say, act like, etc?" I felt I already did answer it, but I'll try again.

 

If you're looking for specifics, I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to give you a very useful answer, but here you go. For me to completely fall for a guy, he has to want the same things in life (travel, no kids, no pets, to live someplace warm), not be preoccupied with money but still appreciate nice things, like to workout and be active, like sci-fi, be willing to eat tofu, treat me with respect, pay attention to my likes/dislikes, give me meaningful, random gifts, be accepting of not celebrating holidays, be mature enough to appreciate the nice things I do for him (you'd be surprised how many guys I've met who've taken nice guestures like buying them a house-warming gift to mean I'm 'clingy' ), and be willing to express how he feels. It doesn't matter if he has a great personality, if he says or does supposedly romantic things. While romantic guestures do help, if we don't share those things (especially goals for the future), I'm not going to be swooning over him, because it would be a waste of energy.

 

I doubt that's what you're looking for, because it's not really very 'romantic', but that's the best I can give you.

 

Thanks; it helps; I'm noticing that a lot of women are practical about love - much to the opposite of what I was beginning to believe; that it was more of a helpless emotional result of some actions or qualities about a man she had met.

 

Actually, maybe I can give you this: I suppose if you're looking for something you can use to do for a woman, I'd suggest giving her meaningful and random gifts. Unless you know your girl loves jewelry and flowers, don't just get her those all the time. Give her something you know she wants, like tickets to a concert she said she wanted to go to. And tell her how much you appreciate her, how pretty she is, and what she means to you. One of the best things to hear are specific compliments, like "I love your eyes" or "You have such perfect legs."

 

But don't forget about your own life. Don't trail her like a puppy. Be passionate about your own life and interests as well as her.

 

But enough of my long rambling. I hope that helps some.

 

Definitely helps! Thanks a lot for your input.

[laguy10]

I find people who can reach out to others and … give of themselves in a compassionate way, *extremely* attractive

 

I think you've provided my definition for the word "romantic" – it's the person who can step outside of their own little comfort zone and do something wholeheartedly kind or generous without expecting something in return, they were/are just compelled to follow through on a certain act. Like open the car door and safely see their passenger into the seat, or splurge on a candy bar for someone who appreciates sweets, just because they want to surprise that person with a little something. Same thing goes for a peck on the cheek or head in public or holding hands – the gesture is made because the person genuinely wants to do it, not because they must.

 

Alpha, I think you could be perceived as more romantic than you think, because it's those little actions people see as thoughtful that make you romantic to them ... a lot of times one doesn't even think about what he or she is doing, yet the person on the receiving end of that gesture is very, very touched by it.

 

I see your point....some kind of an action that is motivated by a sincere desire to show affection to the other person....should be common sense I suppose. As a man, I think that I am guilty of merely expecting women to just know that I feel that way about them when I'm with them....so this is a valuable insight, thanks.

[laguy10]

I think you'd have better results if you described your own approach to women and asked the large pool what they think went wrong. Then you can get a list of generalities on things about you that you can change, instead of a list of generalities to accomodate a mass group of women.

 

Ok, that is a good point, so I shall try to explain what I'm doing:

 

I stated some of this in the post above, to crazy_grl, but I'll try to expand on it a little...

 

My frustration is coming from the fact that in my past (like early middleschool age), I seemed to not even worry about anything concerning women...I would get girlfriends, sometimes from them even approaching me with the idea. In my late middle school/early high school years, **** hit the fan in my life, and I turned inwards majorly....just kind of became a loner of sorts. During this time, I was aware of what was missing in my life but not aware of how to fix it. This stage lasted till I was in my mid 20's, and finally moved out of my mom's house (which was a lot of the problem). When I got out, I tried to conquer everything I had lost ground with....my identity, women, friendships, social awkwardness, male vs female gender roles, you name it, I probably tried to work through it....I never was confused about my sexual orientation or anything like that, but I was very confused about what exactly differentiated a woman from a man (grew up with no father, and a mother who was never very supportive).

 

It was during the time in my life where I was still living at home, but still trying to find myself, that I was often cast in the "friends" role in relationships....I would always be a really good listener and all - however, looking back, and knowing what I now know, I'm aware that I would never make waves, because I was trying to rely on other people to validate my own self-esteem (one of the reasons I'm so adamant about that being unhealthy now, dgiirl - maybe you can better understand where I'm coming from on that too, from this post). Anyways, a few more years down the line, and I moved out, and then started to read as much as I could on the issue of dating, approaching women, etc, etc.

 

I was told by most things I read, that the way to not be cast into the friends role was to just pick women up in public, which I've done a fair amount of, since then....but my problem, like what I told crazy_grl, is that I can't seem to get women interested enough to call back once I make the first phone call to them...it's like I don't know how to "hook" them as it were....that's my motivation for making this post, thinking that maybe there was something I wasn't doing, that other guys seem to do.

 

With my brothers insight from last night, I think that's the best way to go about it, however, I'm concerned, because I do not want to be put into the "girlfriend" role again (I won't let myself become that anymore, I have too much self-respect now) - but am unaware of what the balance is between that and just being a good friend I guess. I feel like I'm shooting in the dark (and like I have been most of my life, hoping to hit a bull's eye somewhere or other).

 

Anyway, maybe this can give you some perspective on myself, and what this thread is all about.

 

It's hard to explain what will attract a woman or not. Even if the guy is perfect on paper, there still might not be any chemistry. My ideal mate would not smoke, not drink, have a reliable good job, be responsible, already be settled in life, have no debt (i have none), believes in marriage, wants a family, respects women, shows me affection, but not overpowering. He'd like sci fi, and action movies, he'd like going out to resturants, he'd like to try new things, he'd encourage me in my life, and he'd depend on me for help too. But all in all, there has to be that spark. And you simply cannot create that spark. Either it's there or it's not.

 

This helps, again, it's practical - which gives me some clues to the whole thing, so thanks.

[laguy10]

Yes I would agree with dgiirl here. You need to look at what you currently do. However I agree that certain actions are perceived by the majority of people to be 'romantic'. Nevertheless if you do not behave in this fashion naturally, from inside yourself, then changing your behaviours to fit a wider spectrum of perceptions will come across as false. Falseness is easily spotted and will end up making the 'actor' look wooden, stilted and awkward. Like a fish out of water.

 

You do, in the end, have to be yourself.

 

One final thought. IMO romantic attraction is 99% empathy and 1% chemistry. The magic 'spark' must exist, but with no empathy you can not tell what will please another person. I do as I wish to be done to.

 

Some women think I am a romantic man, others think I am an idiot, and still others think I am a out an out bar steward. Thats the way it goes.

 

Well, I am being myself....if there's one thing I've begun to learn from all of my experiences, it's who I am. I can totally relate, by the way, about how some women find you attractive, romantic, etc. and others find you a complete idiot. However, do you not think that there are some things that females from all places just have wired in them, that makes them more attracted to men, if men will do those things? I'm not trying to change who I am here, only add to who I am, so that I am more complete; in other words, not trying to change my foundation, just trying to juggle stuff around, so that I am more what I would like to be like...if that makes any sense.

[laguy10]

Yeah those are a different story because women read those kinds of books for all sorts of reasons. Just do a search in for Romance Novels in the threads here and you will see how people really feel about them. Those books don't really do anything for me. Sure it's fun to read about how this girl got swept off her feet by the most incredible man but in all reality those books are not real life and some people get so wrapped up in them that they expect to find someone like the guy in the book. Usually when I think of romance novels, I think of my grandmother who has like 100 of those books and they just suck her right up. Don't know what she gets out of them but to her their probably exciting, romantic, etc...

 

Wow, never thought of it this way before....almost like being trapped in fantasy land. Thanks.

[quankanne]

females from all places just have wired in them, that makes them more attracted to men, if men will do those things?

 

I think good manners is a hands-down favorite, whether they're modeled by a good friend or someone a girl finds romantically attractive, because it lets them know that he's got a certain sense of classiness about him. And makes her feel appreciate, much in the way a home-cooked meal does for a guy who lives on his own!

 

romance novels ... my guilty pleasure, though it's cyclical. I think I tend to read them more when I feel like my husband is treating more like his buddy than The Girl He Wanted Badly Enough To Marry. It's easy to buy into the feeling of being wanted and being pursued by someone who finds you utterly attractive and wants you above all else. Not sure if other women feel the same way.

[crazy_grl]

Thanks; it helps; I'm noticing that a lot of women are practical about love - much to the opposite of what I was beginning to believe; that it was more of a helpless emotional result of some actions or qualities about a man she had met.

 

You weren't completely wrong. There are plenty of women which for which that's true.

 

Read through some of the threads on this site and you’ll see plenty of women (and men) in relationships that aren’t good for them, but they stay in them. If they were practical, they would leave after they tried unsuccessfully to repair the relationship. Yet they stay even when they know how bad it is and that there’s not much hope it’ll get better.

 

I've just learned that by not being practical, you have a higher chance of ending up in an unhealthy relationship or investing yourself too far in a relationship that was doomed from the beginning because you two don't want the same things. Of course, I'm not always as practical as I should be.

[dgiirl]

However, do you not think that there are some things that females from all places just have wired in them, that makes them more attracted to men, if men will do those things?

 

Well, i think there's the basics of any relationship, mutual respect. Other than that, I cant really think of any more detailed specifics that would cause one person to be more attractive than another. From what you've written to everyone in all your posts, I dont really see any specific problem you have. You seem to be getting the girls numbers, you seem to be able to have a conversation with them over the phone, you've been lumped into the girl's "friend" role in the past (which is a good sign in that you're not a creep, women trust you).

 

The only thing that does stand out and makes me question is you upset about the women not calling you back. Do you call them once, and then give up if they dont return the call? From my experience, and although it might not be fair, but the phone conversations are usually a 3-1 ratio. So you do have to put in a little more effort than the girl, especially in the beginning. She's still trying to get to know you, trying to see if you are trustworthy or not. She still has her gaurd up.

 

I think your brother is onto something. You do need to become a "friend" to the girl. She needs to know that you are interested in her company and not just looking for a one night stand. That you wont get upset with her if she doesnt exactly know her feelings towards you right away.

 

As a girl, i often encounter two types of guys, the clingy guy and the player. I'm not interested in either of these guys. The player just wants into my pants right away, and if he sees i wont give up the goods too early, he gets upset at me and there's usually a confrontation. The clingy guy calls me a lot, wants an instant relationship, pushes too hard, and if I'm not entirely sure of my feelings towards him, and I continue to talk to him as a friend, i get accused for leading him on and then again there's usually a confrontation. I'm looking for the balanced guy in between. The one who shows interest in me as a woman AND as a friend. Someone who enjoys my company and wont get upset with me if I change my mind down the line. Yes, rejection sucks and it hurts, but you have to be mature about it. The player and the clingy guy are not mature.

 

On top of all this, I still refer to my post in the other thread. Dont get frustrated if you dont have instant chemistry. It does take time to find someone where both sides feel that spark. There will be plenty of women you'll feel a spark for, and plenty of woman who will feel a spark for you, but rarely do the two coincide.

[lindya]

RP and LINDYA

 

 

I'd like to thank various dark events from the past few years, without whom I might not be here today. Posting my life away!

[alphamale]

 

I'd like to thank various dark events from the past few years, without whom I might not be here today. Posting my life away!

[laguy10]

Well, i think there's the basics of any relationship, mutual respect. Other than that, I cant really think of any more detailed specifics that would cause one person to be more attractive than another. From what you've written to everyone in all your posts, I dont really see any specific problem you have. You seem to be getting the girls numbers, you seem to be able to have a conversation with them over the phone, you've been lumped into the girl's "friend" role in the past (which is a good sign in that you're not a creep, women trust you).

 

The only thing that does stand out and makes me question is you upset about the women not calling you back. Do you call them once, and then give up if they dont return the call? From my experience, and although it might not be fair, but the phone conversations are usually a 3-1 ratio. So you do have to put in a little more effort than the girl, especially in the beginning. She's still trying to get to know you, trying to see if you are trustworthy or not. She still has her gaurd up.

 

I think your brother is onto something. You do need to become a "friend" to the girl. She needs to know that you are interested in her company and not just looking for a one night stand. That you wont get upset with her if she doesnt exactly know her feelings towards you right away.

 

As a girl, i often encounter two types of guys, the clingy guy and the player. I'm not interested in either of these guys. The player just wants into my pants right away, and if he sees i wont give up the goods too early, he gets upset at me and there's usually a confrontation. The clingy guy calls me a lot, wants an instant relationship, pushes too hard, and if I'm not entirely sure of my feelings towards him, and I continue to talk to him as a friend, i get accused for leading him on and then again there's usually a confrontation. I'm looking for the balanced guy in between. The one who shows interest in me as a woman AND as a friend. Someone who enjoys my company and wont get upset with me if I change my mind down the line. Yes, rejection sucks and it hurts, but you have to be mature about it. The player and the clingy guy are not mature.

 

On top of all this, I still refer to my post in the other thread. Dont get frustrated if you dont have instant chemistry. It does take time to find someone where both sides feel that spark. There will be plenty of women you'll feel a spark for, and plenty of woman who will feel a spark for you, but rarely do the two coincide.

 

Thanks dgiirl, life got busy, and never actually replied to this, I saw, so just wanted to say thanks. Got some useful info from your insights. Meant to bust on ya about the security guard too (the one you said hi to) - but I can't remember where you posted all that.....anyway, was going to ask if you asked if you could play with his gun I know, I know, I'm taking the thread way off topic....I'll apologize to my alternate self later.

[Ssheena]

That ...unless the woman (me) knows that the man is truly being himself and not just doing things because he read about them, or he thinks this is the way to do things, but because he has a strong sense of self, she will not find his attempts "romantic". It's too easy to ask people what they think is romantic, or how they do things, it's something you have to figure out and believe in yourself. Every woman is different. To me it is romantic when the man I am with is really with me - paying attention to what I say, asking questions that allow me to know that he is listening and he does get what I'm talking about and having his own opinion (not just agreeing with me but actually having his own opinion - not just what his friends told him was "right").

I don't read "romantic novels" unless they have explicit sex in them and that's the reason I read them. I don't go see "love story" movies - I hated "Friends with money".

Seriously though, if the man doesn't have a good strong sense of self, I pick that up. My x used to do the following and I called him on it... he would ask people what they liked and then like it himself so that they would like him. He had NO drive or motivation to find out himself what he liked. He would do this with everything.

What do you think is romantic Laguy?

[pricillia]

Wow. Thanks, Rooster. You've brightened my entire day. You rock, too!

 

 

Well to the OP... Like attracts like... see above reply.

[pricillia]

for me, it is a sense of humor, and the man just being himself, he has to be genuine.

If he does something nice to show that he cares that means allot...

it could be the tiniest of things, you can tell when a man is trying to please, I think that is sweet, and then that falls into the romantic.

[dgiirl]

Thanks dgiirl, life got busy, and never actually replied to this, I saw, so just wanted to say thanks. Got some useful info from your insights. Meant to bust on ya about the security guard too (the one you said hi to) - but I can't remember where you posted all that.....anyway, was going to ask if you asked if you could play with his gun I know, I know, I'm taking the thread way off topic....I'll apologize to my alternate self later.

 

lol what gun? he was only a security guard And he wasnt really dressed or anything. Just some dude watching to make sure noone steals or touches the paintings

 

Wish me luck today tho. I'm going to a photography meetup. Never met any of them before, so i'm a little anxious.

[laguy10]

What do you think is romantic Laguy?

 

What do I think is romantic? Well, I'm not just trying to find what other people think is romantic, and adopt it myself, but I can understand how some people would do that - in my opinion, it comes from not knowing who they truly are. My motivation for asking such a question, I think, has already been explained in this thread.

 

So, for what I think is romantic....well, I really appreciate it when the girl I'm with shows me as much respect and gives me her attention as much as I show to her. I, by my nature, am fairly deep - something that a lot of my friends tell me why I have such a problem keeping women interested - because a lot of them are shallow I guess. Anyways, so a woman who can be on my same wavelength, and at the same time laugh at my jokes...I feel an instant connection with a girl who is playful and will laugh at jokes I make. Beyond that, someone who is interested enough in who I am to try to find out about me - what drives me, what my past has been like, stuff like that - too often these days, people date and never really try to understand each other....if I was serious with someone that is something I could not go without.

 

Well to the OP... Like attracts like... see above reply.

 

Yes, I think Rooster and crazy_grl should hook up too....so, when's the wedding, you guys?

 

lol what gun? he was only a security guard And he wasnt really dressed or anything. Just some dude watching to make sure noone steals or touches the paintings

 

Wish me luck today tho. I'm going to a photography meetup. Never met any of them before, so i'm a little anxious.

 

"what gun"? Oh, come'on, don't play innocent now....you can't talk about giving a guy a BJ, and then ask that question

 

I hope you find lots of scenery to shoot at today Maybe ask one of them if you can accompany them back to their "dark room"

[laguy10]

for me, it is a sense of humor, and the man just being himself, he has to be genuine.

If he does something nice to show that he cares that means allot...

it could be the tiniest of things, you can tell when a man is trying to please, I think that is sweet, and then that falls into the romantic.

 

Yeah, I would agree with that....I think anything anyone does to show their thinking about you is always a very nice thing to have happen. Can you please give some examples of what you mean by the "tiniest of things"? I'm thinking opening a door, buying flowers if you're sick in bed (or making breakfast for you), etc. Am I in line with what you meant when you said that?