Phone Sex, Porn and the Internet in Relationships

[Jersey Shortie]

How does it benefit you to indulge in (or even escalate) the same behavior that led you to post here in the first place?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

Because at least I can keep up some semblance of having an even playing field. I don't have to feel over-whelmed by the fact that men just aren't loyal. I don't have to work at being loyal if he isn't going to. If he is going to get enjoyment from other women then I can get enjoyment from other men and still have a relationship with him. Since that is what guys seem to do and seem to want.

 

 

Jersey, have you talked with him about it, and how has he responded? Is he aware of your feelings about it?

 

 

I for the most part keep most of my feelings about this issue to myself. Since it has been my experience with men that they will just say you are being stupid or over-emotional or irrational to something that is very painful. So what is the point. I have to find some way to deal with this and have a relationship with a man. But men don't make it very easy and they sure don't seem to care.

 

 

 

 

 

Just leave him. And then find a new guy. And specify that you want him to wear a blindfold at all times when out of the house, that he isn't allowed to watch the television except for mens' sports and religious shows showing only men, and if he looks at another woman you'll poke his eyes out. Then your 'insecurity' will perhaps be assuaged.

 

 

Cut the crap. I didn't say I was such a Nazi that if he just looked at another women I flipped. It doesn't make me feel good or secure in our relationship either, but I know men are going to look sometimes unfortunetly. It is the other stuff, the still seeking out other women, thinking about other women, when they claim they are committed to you.

[sIZE=2]

Which is it guys? Do you care about your SO's or do you care about your jerk off material more? The evidence seems to say that men care about their jerk off material more so whatever. You can call this male bashing but it isn't. Men aren't perfect and the thigns men do sometimes are hurtful to the women in their life. It just seems to be the truth with the way men are today unfortunetly.

[/sIZE]

[Mr. Lucky]

Because at least I can keep up some semblance of having an even playing field.

But when did a relationship start being about getting (or keeping) even? I can't think of a single aspect of my marriage - from sexual initiative to fogiveness to child rearing - that is quantitatively even. And yet, somehow the sum works for both of us.

 

Jersey, do you think that overall you and your boyfriend have a "good" relationship? Is this issue with "phone sex, porn and the internet" just a minor deal?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Pink_Tulip]

Jersey, please explain what is so wonderful about this relationship that you are willing to stay in and make yourself miserable playing 'tit for tat,' rather than leaving to find someone who shares your beliefs and values?

[Trimmer]

 

Jersey, have you talked with him about it, and how has he responded? Is he aware of your feelings about it?

I for the most part keep most of my feelings about this issue to myself.

I think that's a huge problem for you right there.

 

I have to find some way to deal with this and have a relationship with a man.

Why? You are convinced that they uniformly feel and act in a way that is very painful to you. Why have a relationship in which you will suffer in pain and won't communicate your needs? What makes it worth doing that? I'm not challenging you to justify yourself and answer these questions to me - I think you need to answer them for yourself.

 

Jersey, is this your model of relationships between men and women - you suffer in silence and then, to "level the playing field," you lower yourself to exhibit the same behaviors that cause you great pain? What happened to you?

 

Can you not imagine a model of a relationship where you would communicate your needs openly, hear each other, and reach understanding and agreement? Don't you deserve this?

 

I'm not saying that it's even possible to have a relationship that is perfect, and even a decent relationship is not, by far, easy - it's difficult, even scary, and it takes intention, awareness, and work. You do have to make compromises. But not silently compromising your own values out of spite while you quietly suffer. Compromise in a healthy relationship happens between the partners, out in the open, not on one or the other side of a wall separating you.

 

I'll echo the questions of Mr. Lucky and Pink_Tulip: What is it about this particular relationship that makes it worth it? You feel very strongly about the issues we've discussed in this thread; do the positives in your current relationship really balance it all out?

[Trimmer]

...edited to delete duplicate post...

[Jersey Shortie]

But when did a relationship start being about getting (or keeping) even? I can't think of a single aspect of my marriage - from sexual initiative to fogiveness to child rearing - that is quantitatively even. And yet, somehow the sum works for both of us.

 

 

Then you are saying it's okay for men to enjoy themselves with other women at his woman's expense?

 

 

"Jersey, do you think that overall you and your boyfriend have a "good" relationship? Is this issue with "phone sex, porn and the internet" just a minor deal?"

 

No it isn't minor. Why is the thing I am suppose to "compromise" on about other women in his life in a sexual manner?

 

 

 

 

Jersey, please explain what is so wonderful about this relationship that you are willing to stay in and make yourself miserable playing 'tit for tat,' rather than leaving to find someone who shares your beliefs and values?

 

That is jsut the way it has t be in any relationship because porn is very very very important to men.

 

 

 

 

I think that's a huge problem for you right there.

 

No it's better that way. Then I don't have to hear about how the stupid porn once again gets defended because of it's wonderfulness over real women.

 

 

I'm not saying that it's even possible to have a relationship that is perfect, and even a decent relationship is not, by far, easy - it's difficult, even scary, and it takes intention, awareness, and work

 

 

True.

 

 

Compromise in a healthy relationship happens between the partners, out in the open, not on one or the other side of a wall separating you.

 

 

Why does the thing I am suppose to compromise on have to be about other women he wants to think about or have sex with.

[Trimmer]

Compromise in a healthy relationship happens between the partners, out in the open, not on one or the other side of a wall separating you.

Why does the thing I am suppose to compromise on have to be about other women he wants to think about or have sex with.

Which side of the issue are you on, Jersey, or are you just looking for any fight you can get? My whole point (and that of others here of whom you are asking "why should I compromise?") is that in your particular relationship, you are absolutely entitled to choose core values on which you don't want to compromise, and that to have a healthy relationship, you need to be able to communicate with your partner what those values are, and make sure you are compatible along those lines. My point quoted above is meant to say that in areas where you do choose to compromise, this should happen in a process where you strive for good communication and achieve mutual understanding with your partner.

 

Your point, however, is that you have made the decision to take on a unilateral burden, to compromise a core value of yours which causes you great pain, and to do so in silence and isolation from your partner, refusing to communicate.

 

I'm not saying that your partner is a great person and you should compromise on this issue; I'm saying that if you are suffering in silence, compromising a strongly held core value, and unable to communicate, it is a strong indication to me that you are in an unhealty relationship, or that, at a minimum, your relationship skills and your model of how relationships work and how you percieve other people are not serving you well.

 

You see, we are no longer discussing the general case: "men" act this way, and "women" feel this way about it. We are discussing a particular woman - you - in a relationship where a fundamental value of yours is being compromised, where it is causing you significant pain, and where you have decided, somehow, that "it's better that way" to suffer in silence. However, in nearly the same breath where you argue that "it's better that way", you are still asking "why should I compromise?" Yet when we ask you the same thing, you answer that this is the way it has to be to have a relationship with a man. Now you are going in circles.

 

Jersey, please explain what is so wonderful about this relationship that you are willing to stay in and make yourself miserable playing 'tit for tat,' rather than leaving to find someone who shares your beliefs and values?

That is jsut the way it has t be in any relationship because porn is very very very important to men.

 

You are wrong: this isn't the way it has to be in any relationship, it's what you settle for if you find it easier to stay in "any relationship" that comes along. But beyond that, you jumped back and hid behind the general case of "any relationship" and you didn't answer her question, which was also asked by Mr. Lucky and me: Answer for yourself, please: what is it about your particular relationship with this man that makes it worth staying and compromising one of your core values?

[new_stella]

As much as I agree that suffering in silence is not a solution, I must ask:

 

How many men who are not interested in porn do you know?

 

Looking for a man with such beliefs and values could easily prove to be a futile effort.

[Ladywithafan]

I have no idea where this whole thread is going...but I had a talk about this w/my bf....he likes to call those 800 free #'s just to mess with women....(i.e. typical weird man)....he likes to look at internet porn (typical man)...he explained to me how men evaluate women they want to be with the rest of their lives vs. the one's they just can use....(typical weird man)...and, what I essentially got is there's a double standard and even though we women think we're out making more $, drinking mojetos, and driving 'benzes...if you **** men like they **** you, you are still considered a 'ho...and everything changes...thank god I was married, had children & built a home...prior to my boyfriend & his weird way of thinking....(been divorced since Oct. 2000)...

 

I don't know...I have morals, I like to have a few drinks and stay home but I don't need to call 800 #'s or look at men's schlongs on the big screen....however, I'm a woman...lol....I just think the more stress we put on all this, the more the men do just to screw up our heads!

[Mr. Lucky]

at a minimum, your relationship skills and your model of how relationships work and how you percieve other people are not serving you well.

I think finally, after 13 pages of back and forth, the truth...

How many men who are not interested in porn do you know?

Since I can only speak for myself, I'll say one

 

Mr. Lucky

[new_stella]

As much as I agree that suffering in silence is not a solution, I must ask:

 

How many men who are not interested in porn do you know?

 

Looking for a man with such beliefs and values could easily prove to be a futile effort.

Since I can only speak for myself, I'll say one

 

Mr. Lucky

 

But you are taken, aren’t you?

 

No, seriously, do you really think that there is a significant number of men like that?

Do you think that a woman can realistically expect to find one?

[Mr. Lucky]

But you are taken, aren’t you?

 

No, seriously, do you really think that there is a significant number of men like that?

Do you think that a woman can realistically expect to find one?

I am indeed happily married

 

The numbers are obviously going to depend on how you define "interested" in porn. While it would be rare to find a man that hasn't at least been exposed (no pun intended) to porn, I would think that less than half (and maybe significantly so) of all men (married or not) interact with porn on any kind of regular basis. The main objection that I had to Jersey's depiction of ALL men buslily jerking off to some video loop while they ignore their SO's wants and needs was simply this - it ain't true for the majority of us. At least that has been my experience...

 

Mr. Lucky

[new_stella]

I am indeed happily married

 

The numbers are obviously going to depend on how you define "interested" in porn. While it would be rare to find a man that hasn't at least been exposed (no pun intended) to porn, I would think that less than half (and maybe significantly so) of all men (married or not) interact with porn on any kind of regular basis. The main objection that I had to Jersey's depiction of ALL men buslily jerking off to some video loop while they ignore their SO's wants and needs was simply this - it ain't true for the majority of us. At least that has been my experience...

 

Mr. Lucky

Let’s hope you are right.

 

Because I was under the impression that it’s extremely hard to find a man who would not, in one form or the other, desire other women.

 

But, maybe we just base our opinion on a few examples that may not constitute a representative sample.

Maybe happy people just don’t post here.

I know, when I was happy, I didn’t even know forums like this exist!

[Trimmer]

As much as I agree that suffering in silence is not a solution, I must ask:

 

How many men who are not interested in porn do you know?

 

Looking for a man with such beliefs and values could easily prove to be a futile effort.

A very fair question, and I yield to Mr. Lucky's response, with which I agree. However, this addresses one of Jersey's issues, but not both. As I see it she has two issues:

 

(1) Should she stay in her current relationship, given her perceptions and feelings about porn, men's feelings about "other" women, and given her boyfriend's behavior and her perception of his thoughts and feelings?

 

(2) How should she approach relationships in the future?

 

I think your point has everything to do with question #2, but should have relatively little to do with question #1. How strongly should the decision to stay in an agonizing or unhealthy relationship be based upon the ease of entering another one in the future?

 

I live in an isolated rural area with a population of maybe 2000 adult women between 25-55, the vast majority of whom are married family people. Factor in the fact that I would need to find a woman who is willing to date a divorced man fully involved in the lives of his two adolescent kids, and how big, realistically, is my dating pool? And we haven't even started discussing personality or compatibility issues yet, or any other "requirements" I might find important. However, none of this factored into my decision about whether or not to try to stay in my marriage after my wife announced she wanted to leave. That process was completely based on this particular relationship, its prospects for a healthy future, the good of the children, etc.

 

We learned in high-school biology class that organisms from bacteria to human beings have 3 methods of dealing with stressors in their environment: move, adapt, or die; in general, it is uncommon to have the ability to significantly change their environments. Taking this as an analogy, here are Jersey's choices:

 

"Move" - Leave this relationship, and seek out another one with agreeable parameters based on your requirements.

 

"Adapt #1" - Stay in the current relationship and silently suffer because you believe that nothing better will be available. This is as good as it gets, learn to live with it.

 

"Adapt #2" - With a willingness to change your own outlook, attempt to reach an understanding of mens' nature that allows you to thrive in relationships with a wider spectrum of men than you currently believe possible. (i.e. change your own outlook.)

 

"Die" - I think the analogy here would be deciding that it will be impossible to have a relationship that meets your requirements, so you would choose to give up altogether on having a relationship.

 

I'm not advocating any particular one of these things, so please don't come back with "well, why should I have to change my outlook?" You don't - if you are unwilling, you simply don't have that option available, and you'll have to pick from among the others. I'm asserting that the ultimate choice Jersey makes about What To Do pretty much has to come from one of these categories, doesn't it? Maybe I'm missing an option - point it out if so (and although "changing the nature of all men" gets an honorable mention for creativity, I don't think it realistically merits inclusion in the list of her options...) But I think, in broad strokes, this is pretty much the palette from which she can paint.

 

The question becomes, which option will most likely optimize her chances for a fulfilling and happy life? I'm not telling her what she should do - she gets to decide. I'm asking her if she has considered the options.

[new_stella]

How strongly should the decision to stay in an agonizing or unhealthy relationship be based upon the ease of entering another one in the future?

Well, ‘ease of entering another relationship’ shouldn’t affect the decision, I don’t dispute that. But IMO, knowing what you can realistically expect from a relationship should.

I was just trying to establish if that is a realistic option or not.

 

As for Jersey, I think I understand how she feels (please Jersey, correct me if I’m wrong):

She is angry and feels betrayed by the person she loves. She wants her feelings acknowledged and accepted. She feels helpless and can’t talk to her b/f as she fears that he will dismiss her feelings. She feels that her own b/f puts her in an inferior position, when she deserves better.

 

I also think she doesn’t want us to help her to make a decision, as she has already made up her mind- to stay with her b/f (partly because she doesn’t believe she can find anyone who is different). She is trying very hard to do something with her relationship.

 

At the moment, she believes that the best (only?) thing she can do, is to try to make him jealous, to make him suffer like she’s suffering, to show him how much he’s hurting her. She’s hoping that will make him realise he wants her and only her.

 

What she is trying to do is not a cold logical decision; I see it more like a desperate attempt to save a relationship with the man she loves.

 

Unfortunately, I don’t believe any good will come out of this, unless this is something SHE really wants to do and will enjoy it.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm not telling her what she should do - she gets to decide. I'm asking her if she has considered the options.

Trimmer, if I can paraphrase your well-written thoughts (by the way, what do you do for a living? Writer or Teacher would be my guess ), I'm wondering if Jersey has considered that her position doesn't leave her ANY options. If I think that Latvians (insert your own group name here) are souless, self-centered, disloyal scum, I could probably avoid any contact, in the framework of a relationship or otherwise, with them. However, Jersey's stated and all-inclusive disgust with ALL men doesn't leave her very many groups from which to pick relationship candidates.

 

Mr. Lucky

[che_jesse]

f my boyfriend is going to look at porn because he is more visual, I think I have the right to use more verbal outlets to get off on because I am a woman and more verbal.

 

Why don't the 2 of you just have sex with each other.

 

I never understand why one partner sits there and jerks off while the other one is in the other room watching tv.

[Djaba]

Interesting comparison. So, would the guys here who do watch porn be OK with their wives calling such a phone line?

 

I think this is an interesting question, and I'm surprised not to see more responses to it. I've never really thought about the "line" between passive and interactive but it seems right to me, both in terms of how I would feel about my own behavior and in how I would feel about a partner's behavior.

 

I think the recorded-phone-sex scenario could make me at least a bit uncomfortable, and a bit more so if I felt like she was trying to hide it from me, although even then I think the discomfort wouldn't be overwhelming. I think I would also be supportive and curious and ask her to help me understand what she found appealing about it, and try to find a way to incorporate it into the relationship that was good for both of us.

 

But that's just me, 41 years old and ending a marriage of 3+ years due to serious real-world infidelity (hers).

[Pink_Tulip]

Hi Djaba, I thought it was an interesting query too. I just assumed that most men would be bothered by this, but recognized the hypocrisy in stating such, so decided to keep quiet.

 

Jersey, it is ignorant to think all men are like yours. I don't think there is a mormon man alive who looks at porn, let alone masturbates to it. They aren't allowed to masturbate. So go find yourself a mormon. The ones I know are pretty nice guys. Or a catholic. Isn't that like 20% of guys or so? Not exactly a tiny pool to choose from. My H is an atheist and he doesn't do porn. They exist. But if you want to baracade yourself into the 'ALL MEN' theory, there is nothing I, or anyone else, can help you with. But please keep us updated on how the social experiment at home is going so we can all say we told you so when it explodes, b/c that is what is going to happen. But I think thats what you want, too.

[Guest]

Why does the thing I am suppose to compromise on have to be about other women he wants to think about or have sex with.

 

Really, you need to find a man who's brain-dead. Because porn or no, he's seen other women and most have been with other women so you can smash all the computers in the house, forbid him from bringing any photos home, (or lock him up) or just poke his eyes out, but he'll still have memories.

 

Wouldn't it just be easier to recognize that someone appreciating what another woman looks like is not harmful to you in any way? Wouldn't it just be easier to recognize that your issue is in your head and can be altered? IF you want to?

[Jersey Shortie]

While it would be rare to find a man that hasn't at least been exposed (no pun intended) to porn...

 

 

I don't expect to find a man that has never been exposed to porn. I have been exposed to it myself.

 

That is another thing anyway. Why is guys' solutions to the porn issue always "watch it with him". Hello. Why would I want to watch him get turned on by other women and then be the one that he uses as a device to get off in after being turned on by other women??? Would men feel very good if women did that to them?

 

 

I would think that less than half (and maybe significantly so) of all men (married or not) interact with porn on any kind of regular basis.

 

It depends on your idea of a "regular basis". I have had this discussion with other men who said they didn't look at porn on a regualr basis or that much at all. Only to come to find out that they looked at it 3 times a week or something liek that. That seems pretty regular to me.

 

The main objection that I had to Jersey's depiction of ALL men buslily jerking off to some video loop while they ignore their SO's wants and needs was simply this - it ain't true for the majority of us.

 

That isn't exactly what I said. Men think its okay as long as they are still having sex with their partner. So they can have both porn (meaning they can have xamount of random girls to think about that one woman can't even compete with) AND they can have an SO. They get both worlds. They don't have to put an effort into being committed when they have an aid like porn around that helps them be disloyal without really having sex with someone. It is the perfect catch 22. Perfect for men. I think if men were concerned with women's needs, they would understand why porn is such a negative expereince for some women. How degrading it is. How empty. How it makes me question how men see women if that's the way they like seeing women treated.

 

 

 

Because I was under the impression that it’s extremely hard to find a man who would not, in one form or the other, desire other women.

 

I don't expect him not to get turned on by other women ever. I expect him to NOT seek it out in a relationship. I expect him to try to have control over himself.

 

 

With a willingness to change your own outlook, attempt to reach an understanding of mens' nature that allows you to thrive in relationships with a wider spectrum of men than you currently believe possible.

 

 

Well this is the whole point of my thread anyway. If men's nature is not one to be loyal to your partner. Then I don't feel like I need to work hard at being loyal either. And if he is seeking out other women on shallow levels for sex and attraction. I will do the same.

 

Men's "nature" sucks because men are always looking to replace what they have apparently. So I don't even know why men pretend they want relationships when they just want things their way.

 

 

I never understand why one partner sits there and jerks off while the other one is in the other room watching tv.

 

I don't undesrtand it either. But this apparently makes most men happy.

 

 

She is angry and feels betrayed by the person she loves. She wants her feelings acknowledged and accepted. She feels helpless and can’t talk to her b/f as she fears that he will dismiss her feelings. She feels that her own b/f puts her in an inferior position, when she deserves better.

 

True.

 

 

She is trying very hard to do something with her relationship.

 

I just want guys to understand how hurtful it is but they never get it. They just sit there defending the freaking porn until they are blue in the face.

 

 

 

At the moment, she believes that the best (only?) thing she can do, is to try to make him jealous, to make him suffer like she’s suffering, to show him how much he’s hurting her. She’s hoping that will make him realise he wants her and only her.

 

Yes. That is all very true again.

[Mr. Lucky]

Men's "nature" sucks because men are always looking to replace what they have apparently. So I don't even know why men pretend they want relationships when they just want things their way.

Jersey, you remain consistently delusional, but in a kind of charmingly self-destructive way. If I felt the way about women that you feel about men, my life would be very, very empty. If you don't trust, you can't love. It's that simple. Regardless, I hope it all turns out well for you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Trimmer]

I think the recorded-phone-sex scenario could make me at least a bit uncomfortable, and a bit more so if I felt like she was trying to hide it from me, although even then I think the discomfort wouldn't be overwhelming. I think I would also be supportive and curious and ask her to help me understand what she found appealing about it, and try to find a way to incorporate it into the relationship that was good for both of us.

I don't think I answered this one directly, but I agree with Djaba here, and as I related earlier in this thread about my expectations and experiences with buying my wife a vibrator, it would get my attention to see my wife more interested in sex than she apparently had been previously, and I would be interested to work with her to open up - to the degree she was willing - and bring that energy into our own sexual interactions...

 

Interestingly, my profile is somewhat similar to Djaba's: 43 years old and ending a marriage of 13+ years due to serious real-world infidelity (hers).

 

Why is guys' solutions to the porn issue always "watch it with him". Hello. Why would I want to watch him get turned on by other women and then be the one that he uses as a device to get off in after being turned on by other women??? Would men feel very good if women did that to them?

Um, heh heh, yes. Because at the end of the night, and there the next morning, when we're curled up around each other - as well as when we're away from each other, whether a mile or 3000 miles - we know that we chose each other, and only each other, to live out the rest of our lives with. And that's the real point, if you can avoid losing your focus. It really is about confidence and security in yourself as a whole individual, confidence and security in youself as a partner in your relationship, and confidence and security in the relationship as a union.

 

I'm speaking hypothetically, here, of course. I think it's interesting that even though I have had real-world experience with being cheated on by my spouse - "real" cheating, Jersey, with real deceit, real lies, real people, and real sex - I have enough hope and belief in people that I can still imagine a relationship working well, and some day trusting someone again. And you, Jersey, who have no specific experience with the depths and extremes that disloyalty can really go to (that you have shared, anyway) have somehow burned into your psyche the idea that a man noticing and thinking of other women is disrespectful. (Don't jump too quickly to deny this, as I'm going to quote you later...)

 

They don't have to put an effort into being committed when they have an aid like porn around that helps them be disloyal without really having sex with someone. It is the perfect catch 22. Perfect for men. I think if men were concerned with women's needs, they would understand why porn is such a negative expereince for some women. How degrading it is. How empty. How it makes me question how men see women if that's the way they like seeing women treated.

Porn is only one of your problems, Jersey, and not the root one. When I suggest you adapt to understand the nature of men, I'm not defending porn, or suggesting you "watch it with him"; as a matter of fact, I still maintain that you have the right - and the obligation to yourself - to look for a partner who feels as you do, and with whom you can agree on mutually acceptable boundaries. Hard to do, you complain? No one here is saying that finding a compatible partner is easy, or is some kind of divine right. Finding a truly compatible partner is hard for everyone; there are no guarantees, and you may spend some time - or a long time - alone in your search; get over it.

 

Your problem goes beyond just porn use, though, doesn't it, Jersey? You hate the way men are; porn just happens to be a very visible symptom of that in some men. But as I have said earlier in this thread, take away porn, and you will still be disgusted by what you perceive to be the disrespect and disloyalty of men - at its root, it's not about the porn. That's just a convenient refrain to jump back to, to shift the playing field when you find yourself cornered in an argument.

 

I don't expect him not to get turned on by other women ever.

Bull....

As a husband I find his remark completely disrespectful to both you and your marriage. Even if I thought it about another woman, at work or otherwise, it's not something I'd say to her.

Why is it only disrespectful if he says it? Why isn't it disrespectful if he is thinking it? The outcome is the same, the only difference is one is being said verbally out-loud. I don't see how one is disrespectful but the other isn't.

You believe that even thinking it is disrespectful. You do expect him not to get turned on by another woman...

 

Then I don't feel like I need to work hard at being loyal either. And if he is seeking out other women on shallow levels for sex and attraction. I will do the same.

Yes, shallow, indeed.

 

Men's "nature" sucks because... So I don't even know why men pretend....

Isn't there a point where, if you have uniform perceptions of a whole class that make you increasingly uncomfortable, and you see no differences, no exceptions, no variations within that class (of men, in this case,) you might begin to question your perceptions? If virtually everything in the world seems uniformly off at an angle, is it just possible that you might have your head tilted? You sound pretty confident that you expect pretty much all men to be uniformly shallow, disloyal, porn addicts who only pretend to care about relationships and the women in them. Is your world really this horrible and bleak? On one hand, I don't want to insult you by offering pity, but I am truly sorry for you.

 

She is trying very hard to do something with her relationship.

I just want guys to understand how hurtful it is but they never get it. They just sit there defending the freaking porn until they are blue in the face.

Actually, I agree with almost all of your perceptions about her relationship, except this one, Stella. She's not trying hard - she is complaining, she has given up, and she isn't really trying at all. She has already said, with respect to her relationship, that she intentionally keeps her feelings about this subject to herself. Note that as soon as the subject turns to what she is doing about it, she throws up her hands, and basically says there's nothing she can do (because men are obviously, apparently, blah blah blah) and immediately turns to comments about men in general - the broad class of "men" - and away from her own relationship with this man. She isn't trying hard within her relationship, she appears to be specifically avoiding it. This thread isn't a tool for her to help work out her issues, it's a mechanism to avoid dealing with it within her own relationship.

 

At the moment, she believes that the best (only?) thing she can do, is to try to make him jealous, to make him suffer like she’s suffering, to show him how much he’s hurting her. She’s hoping that will make him realise he wants her and only her.

 

Yes. That is all very true again.

I really don't like "Dr. Phil" very much at all, but the one line of his that I do like is "And how's that working out for you?"

[Trimmer]

...by the way, what do you do for a living? Writer or Teacher would be my guess

Ha, ha - I'm an engineer actually, a group which tends to have a reputation for difficulty with interpersonal communication ( look at me, I'm generalizing!! )

 

Incidentally, I have a particular fondness for well-crafted adverb/adjective combinations, so "charmingly self-destructive" really made me giggle...

[Mr. Lucky]

Incidentally, I have a particular fondness for well-crafted adverb/adjective combinations, so "charmingly self-destructive" really made me giggle...

Thanks, I used those words deliberately. It's hard not to empathize with the obvious pain in her posts. However, I could build a pretty good case that, in both her communication and interpersonal style, she's her own worst enemy

 

Mr. Lucky