Phone Sex, Porn and the Internet in Relationships

[Ladywithafan]

I have truely looked into this situation from all angles & sides...and I have been on the "why does he have to look at porn, call 800 #'s, the whole shebang...ok...I let my partner know my feelings, he listened while I yelled and then when I least expected, we had a big long talk...it wasn't exactly what I wanted to hear but it was what I should hear...relating to privacy, letting a man be a man (we all know where that leads...strip joints, 800 #'s lol...just kidding...)

 

anyhow, I have decided to look at the situation differently as my partner really had taken steps to listen to what I say in the past few months. I am not easy to live with & either is he...but...there is love...so there is hope....

 

I've watched the porn, some of the videos have all over others....and I watch with my partner...ok...now I was married for twelve years; never in all that time did my husband ever buy a pay per view porn movie or even suggest it...he ended up having numerous affairs at the hospital where he practiced & one in particular, which included a baby...ended the marriage...

 

now I'm not saying that if we watched porn or called 800#'s that things would have been kosher...but we never really talked about it...or anything like it....

 

My partner & I have serious arguments, discussions, debates...you name it...but we try to do it without being mean about it...so much different than my marriage & better in the communication department...

 

So, sometimes you have to give a little to get a little...and if you love someone, and know they a. like porn, b. like phone sex c. oral sex...whatever...you are not going to make those likes go away...but, you can say okay, I don't know why it bothers me (usually it's threatening behavior....something we don't want to talk about or deal with for one reason or another)...but I try & learn about it in a general way and see what happens....

 

If you haven't experienced something you can really have no innate feeling...

 

okay...flip...

 

we've all most likely experienced someone lying to us, cheating on us, doing something bad to us....but we have to move on from the hurt or we will just get stuck repeating tapes from our past...file it away for reference but don' use it as a measure of new experiences....once it's passed let it stay in the past...otherwise...we will be wired to react immediatly psycho in an instant before anything happens by just a trigger.

 

drop the bad & wake up to a new day, with a new hope!

[Jersey Shortie]

So Jersey, given your relatively low expectations of men as a group, I guess all I have left then is to ask if you've decided that the particular man you are with now is the best you can hope for?

 

Why shouldn't I have low expectations of men Trimmer? I come to this forum with a problem, i read this forum with other women who have the same issue with this, and I read again again about men who keep defending their actions that are hurtful to women.

 

No matter what I do, stay attractive, work to please him, he is still going to think about other women right? That is the truth. So why shouldn't I have low expectations? Why do I bother even trying anymore? Because no matter what I do, in the end he wishes he could be with other chicks.

 

 

 

 

Within the bounds of monagamy and good taste (as it apllies to sexual activity and porn you should encourage you partner to explore his or her sexuality - it will only benefit you in the long run.

 

Again, the question you should ask youself is "Why am I threatened by that?"

 

Why do you think people need porn to explore their sexuality? That seems kind of lame if you ask me.

 

Men keep asking why are women threated by porn or their man thinking about other women. And I will ask you why shouldn't we be? It is a clear and obvious signal that your man desires/wants other women. Other women who are more attractive then you. Can you not understand how that isn't threatening? Lets be honest, most porn is geared to men and what turns them on. Most porn is a focus on the female body then the males and what is being done to her. If women created a meduim that focused on men's insecurities and exploited them, then you come back and tell me you wouldn't question your place in your SO's live and you wouldn't feel threated.

 

You guys want to tell us how much you enjoy other women and then wonder why women get insecure about it. That doesn't sound too logical

[Ladywithafan]

Ms. J....I think you forgot something in all of these sexual arenas.......yourself!

 

It is the nature of man to procreate...girl, that's so basic 1,2,3...and, if all the "beautiful, wealthy" people that we call movie stars and divas and hunks can't stay faithfull....do you not see the trickle down effect...

 

with all the T & A...male/female/whatever....we live in a sexual society and about the only place you're not going to interact with that is 10 feet underground.

 

Personally, i'd rather my man look than touch.........you really need to sit down and have a heart to heart with your lover...and if you can't come to an agreement that pleases the both of you...end it......you will never be satisfied and you will replay these tapes of hurt that you carry in your heart 24/7....you don't have to forget, but you have to get over the hump that is stopping you from enjoying the opposite sex....there is no perfect person....

 

 

You will become what you resist most....

[Pink_Tulip]

Lady- I want to make sure I am understanding your post correctly. Are you saying that you are with a man who has had numerous affairs, and even fathered a child with one? And your point is that had you discussed all this in the beginning, it may have never happened? But b/c you have talked about it with your H, your relationship has better communication than most? Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Zato]

Why shouldn't I have low expectations of men Trimmer? I come to this forum with a problem, i read this forum with other women who have the same issue with this, and I read again again about men who keep defending their actions that are hurtful to women.

 

No matter what I do, stay attractive, work to please him, he is still going to think about other women right? That is the truth. So why shouldn't I have low expectations? Why do I bother even trying anymore? Because no matter what I do, in the end he wishes he could be with other chicks.

 

The sad fact is that you have high expectations and all the males around you can't keep up. Everyone has critical self expectations that must be upheld, and this is one of them for you. Nothing wrong with that at all! But please don't hate all guys because of what the majority do. I am too looking for a wonderful women whom can keep her mind heart and soul all loyal to me. And I am more than willing to return this expectation. I promise you there are amazing guys out there who do have the same perspective as you. You just gotta know where to look.

 

I suggest that since obviously your boyfriend differs from you in his perspective on romantic intimacy, you should indeed have a serious heart to heart talk with him about all this. If he is not willing to change then you must realize you can't change him and walk away. You can try to save your relationship all you want - and you should - but there is a point when you must walk away before you compromise your own values. Keep your values no matter what. They are what make you - You.

 

Why do you think people need porn to explore their sexuality? That seems kind of lame if you ask me.

 

Men keep asking why are women threated by porn or their man thinking about other women. And I will ask you why shouldn't we be? It is a clear and obvious signal that your man desires/wants other women. Other women who are more attractive then you. Can you not understand how that isn't threatening? Lets be honest, most porn is geared to men and what turns them on. Most porn is a focus on the female body then the males and what is being done to her. If women created a meduim that focused on men's insecurities and exploited them, then you come back and tell me you wouldn't question your place in your SO's live and you wouldn't feel threated.

 

You guys want to tell us how much you enjoy other women and then wonder why women get insecure about it. That doesn't sound too logical

 

I completely agree that you do not need to lust after other people in order to explore your own sexuality. Sexuality can be explored perfectly within the realm of your relationship with your partner. Unfortunately many people have lost this perspective and now I believe we are the minority in our society. Its ok though - its what makes us so cool! ^^

 

Stick up for your Morals and Values and Expect nothing less. But also remember no one is perfect. I wish the best luck to you J.

 

It is the nature of man to procreate...

 

Yes but the man who has no control over himself is nothing but a animal. IMO.

 

Personally, i'd rather my man look than touch.........

 

You would "rather" have him look than touch? So you feel this is also not exactly something good to be doing? Im not trying to pick a fight I just want to understand you better.

 

I think both parties within the relationship should have total self control over their thoughts and actions. Self control brings happiness. Thinking positively and embracing your personal morals and values bring self acceptance and happiness. These are all good things. I think I may be rambling a bit now...

 

<3 -Zach-

[Ladywithafan]

Lady- I want to make sure I am understanding your post correctly. Are you saying that you are with a man who has had numerous affairs, and even fathered a child with one? And your point is that had you discussed all this in the beginning, it may have never happened? But b/c you have talked about it with your H, your relationship has better communication than most? Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

YOU ARE WRONG....I must not have explained myself...I divorced my husband, because of the DR/Nurse affair that resulted in pregnancy and my million dollar view of Tampa Bay wasn't giving me the intimacy/love connection that I should have got from my husband.......my boyfriend, who I met the day that my xhusband's girlfriend, now wife, had my husband's baby, and I have a monogomous relationship, we put our feelings on the table and we discuss things....my husband didn't even know how to write my alimony check, hello? My boyfriend although somewhat similar to my X is also different.....I do think that people can be afraid to discuss things at times and yes, letting those things fester will bring about termites that will infest that white picket fence so that by the time you lean on it for support, it crumbles into dust....

 

The key to life is communication! Relationships are diadic and usually like teeter totters....Communication 101....one up; one down...meeting in the middle, of course, gives balance...that is the goal....too much up can be just as harmful as too much down...

 

My relationship is by no means the best but it's come a long way in seven years.........just as crazy about my love as the first day I met him.

[Zato]

The key to life is communication! Relationships are diadic and usually like teeter totters....Communication 101....one up; one down...meeting in the middle, of course, gives balance...that is the goal....too much up can be just as harmful as too much down...

 

This is very true. Very wise.

 

Just as a side note:

 

Communication is very important, but make sure to have atleast the same moral basis as your partner before trying to establish a romantic setup with them. Without common understanding communication will fail. Just my little tip/opinion. ^^

[Trimmer]

So Jersey, given your relatively low expectations of men as a group, I guess all I have left then is to ask if you've decided that the particular man you are with now is the best you can hope for?

Why shouldn't I have low expectations of men Trimmer? I come to this forum with a problem, i read this forum with other women who have the same issue with this, and I read again again about men who keep defending their actions that are hurtful to women.

 

No matter what I do, stay attractive, work to please him, he is still going to think about other women right? That is the truth. So why shouldn't I have low expectations? Why do I bother even trying anymore? Because no matter what I do, in the end he wishes he could be with other chicks.

I accept that you have the opinions you do, and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. I don't believe I have any answers that will soothe your soul. However, I asked a straightforward question about you and your relationship which you completely avoided answering. Do you have a response to my question?

[Pink_Tulip]

YOU ARE WRONG....I must not have explained myself...I divorced my husband, because of the DR/Nurse affair that resulted in pregnancy and my million dollar view of Tampa Bay wasn't giving me the intimacy/love connection that I should have got from my husband.......my boyfriend, who I met the day that my xhusband's girlfriend, now wife, had my husband's baby, and I have a monogomous relationship, we put our feelings on the table and we discuss things....my husband didn't even know how to write my alimony check, hello? My boyfriend although somewhat similar to my X is also different.....I do think that people can be afraid to discuss things at times and yes, letting those things fester will bring about termites that will infest that white picket fence so that by the time you lean on it for support, it crumbles into dust....

 

The key to life is communication! Relationships are diadic and usually like teeter totters....Communication 101....one up; one down...meeting in the middle, of course, gives balance...that is the goal....too much up can be just as harmful as too much down...

 

My relationship is by no means the best but it's come a long way in seven years.........just as crazy about my love as the first day I met him.

 

OH THANK GOD. Wow. The way you wrote it, I didn't differentiate between the 'husband' and 'partner,' so I assumed they were the same person. Damn near gave me a heart attack.

 

I agree that communication is vital, but I think the issue with problems like porn is, for some people, myself included, there simply is no negotiating. I have a belief that I will not compromise on. And it is my responsibility to make that belief very clear to anyone I would be in a potential relationship with since there is no negotiation, and I think that is why there are so many porn threads. Women really don't realize that this could be an issue in their marriage, they assume men think like they do, and when it happens, it's a shock. Then what do you do? There should be a master list of things to discuss before marraige somewhere, that everyone must read and sign off on before gettting a marriage license, lol. Otherwise things like this will keep happening.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think both parties within the relationship should have total self control over their thoughts and actions.

Total self control over their thoughts? Freud (and others) might think differently...

 

The problem that I respectfully see for you, Zato, is that despite your idealistic standards and goals, at the end of the deal you are still .... a man . Not a robot, not a droid, but a man. 10,000 years of evolution has hardwired our male brains in certain ways. Flee or fight. Protect and serve. Hunt and gather. Noticing the opposite sex, with all the conscious and unconscious processes that entails, is a natural part of that. You can try and surpress that instinct ( as the Catholic Church has tried with priests and nuns - how sucessful has that been?) but (quoting from Jurassic Park) "nature's going to find a way". Even as pious a fellow as Jimmy Carter made the famous admission that he had lusted in his heart. So, in my humble opinion, "total self control over ... thoughts" isn't a realistic (or valuable) goal.

 

Why do you think people need porn to explore their sexuality? That seems kind of lame if you ask me.

 

I never said there was a "need" for porn. What I did say was that an awareness of women - in person, on paper, on film - is part of what defines me as a man. How I act on that awareness is what defines me as a person in a relationship. If you want to condemn your bf for a similar awareness (as you have repeatedly, in this thread and others), then continue to experience the unhappiness and disgust that seems an integral part of your every post.

 

Mr. Lucky

[Trimmer]

I agree that communication is vital, but I think the issue with problems like porn is, for some people, myself included, there simply is no negotiating. I have a belief that I will not compromise on. And it is my responsibility to make that belief very clear to anyone I would be in a potential relationship with since there is no negotiation, and I think that is why there are so many porn threads. Women really don't realize that this could be an issue in their marriage, they assume men think like they do, and when it happens, it's a shock. Then what do you do? There should be a master list of things to discuss before marraige somewhere, that everyone must read and sign off on before gettting a marriage license, lol. Otherwise things like this will keep happening.

Amen. We all have things that are fairly important to us, things that are not so important, and things that are so important they are non-negotiable. For example, before we got married, having kids was non-negotiable for my wife, but I was quite hesitant; we came to a meeting of the minds, and I will forever be unsurpassingly grateful to myself and to her that I took that leap of faith and now have two wonderful children.... But I'm glad we had that discussion and meeting of the minds BEFORE we seriously continued our relationship, because it could have been one heck of a pothole along the way.

 

The place that I wish Jersey could find a silver lining in all of this is that, just as you have decided for yourself P_T, she can now say to herself: I know this is a non-negotiable item to me, and knowing that means I never have to be in a relationship again where it comes up "later" as a surprise. I am in control.

 

She doesn't have to change her opinion or understand more about men if she doesn't want to. She can either decide she's got the best relationship she can hope for, or not; if she chooses to move on, she knows what she will accept and what she won't in her next relationship. If she chooses to stay, she has made an informed decision - we hope. Either way, she's in the driver's seat. It's in her hands; that should be empowering, shouldn't it?

[Ladywithafan]

This is very true. Very wise.

 

Just as a side note:

 

Communication is very important, but make sure to have atleast the same moral basis as your partner before trying to establish a romantic setup with them. Without common understanding communication will fail. Just my little tip/opinion. ^^

 

Absolutely!....

[Ladywithafan]

The sad fact is that you have high expectations and all the males around you can't keep up. Everyone has critical self expectations that must be upheld, and this is one of them for you. Nothing wrong with that at all! But please don't hate all guys because of what the majority do. I am too looking for a wonderful women whom can keep her mind heart and soul all loyal to me. And I am more than willing to return this expectation. I promise you there are amazing guys out there who do have the same perspective as you. You just gotta know where to look.

 

I suggest that since obviously your boyfriend differs from you in his perspective on romantic intimacy, you should indeed have a serious heart to heart talk with him about all this. If he is not willing to change then you must realize you can't change him and walk away. You can try to save your relationship all you want - and you should - but there is a point when you must walk away before you compromise your own values. Keep your values no matter what. They are what make you - You.

 

 

 

I completely agree that you do not need to lust after other people in order to explore your own sexuality. Sexuality can be explored perfectly within the realm of your relationship with your partner. Unfortunately many people have lost this perspective and now I believe we are the minority in our society. Its ok though - its what makes us so cool! ^^

 

Stick up for your Morals and Values and Expect nothing less. But also remember no one is perfect. I wish the best luck to you J.

 

 

 

Yes but the man who has no control over himself is nothing but a animal. IMO.

 

 

 

You would "rather" have him look than touch? So you feel this is also not exactly something good to be doing? Im not trying to pick a fight I just want to understand you better.

 

Do you not think watching TV/movies is looking...? Reading magzines w/advertisements w/beatiful people?.....Commercials? and of course, you can't put blinders on your loved one.....they'd go stir crazy....listen, I feel ya...no argument...but IMO....I know my man will look at people...women...porn......should I make him look only at me & get bored or wonder why I'm wearing pink leather boxing boots.....???? ok...that's a little drastic, but for real as my 8 year old would say.....everybody looks....it is not a sin!Just because I'm looking at a handsome man doesn't mean I want to leave my boyfriend for eye candy....just a bit smarter than that!

 

I think both parties within the relationship should have total self control over their thoughts and actions. Self control brings happiness. Thinking positively and embracing your personal morals and values bring self acceptance and happiness. These are all good things. I think I may be rambling a bit now...

[Zato]

Do you not think watching TV/movies is looking...? Reading magzines w/advertisements w/beatiful people?.....Commercials? and of course, you can't put blinders on your loved one.....they'd go stir crazy....listen, I feel ya...no argument...but IMO....I know my man will look at people...women...porn......should I make him look only at me & get bored or wonder why I'm wearing pink leather boxing boots.....???? ok...that's a little drastic, but for real as my 8 year old would say.....everybody looks....it is not a sin!Just because I'm looking at a handsome man doesn't mean I want to leave my boyfriend for eye candy....just a bit smarter than that!

 

There is a very large difference between looking/admiring and lusting. There is nothing wrong with admiring the beauty of another but IMO "lusting" is what makes it wrong. Things may get boring but that can be fixed ^^

[Jersey Shortie]

then continue to experience the unhappiness and disgust that seems an integral part of your every post.

 

 

 

That is true I am unhappy and disgusted with men and their lack of loyatly to the women they "claim" they care about.

 

men suck.

[Trimmer]

Jersey: you are avoiding your own current situation, which is something that you can control. What is the status of your current relationship; is it as good as you can imagine a relationship being? If not, what are you going to do about it?

[CynicalP]

That is true I am unhappy and disgusted with men and their lack of loyatly to the women they "claim" they care about.

 

men suck.

 

Sounds like your not interested in loyatly. You crave submission, a blind man with no independent thought. Congratulations, your misandrist nature is loud and clear.

[Mr. Lucky]

Congratulations, your misandrist nature is loud and clear.

 

Wow, I had to look that one up. From Wikipedia:

 

Misandry ([mɪ.ˈsæn.dri]) is the hatred of males as a sex. The word comes from misos (Greek μῖσος, "hatred") + andras (Greekἄνδρας, "man"). Although misandry is sometimes confused with [misanthropy], the terms are not interchangeable, since the latter refers to the hatred of humanity. An idea related to misandry is [androphobia], the fear of men (male humans), but not necessarily the hatred of them. The reverse of misandry is [misogyny], the hatred of women.

Although misandry is discussed less frequently than [misogyny] and is less understood, there is increasing research into and discussion about the topic. According to researchers Nathanson and Young (2001), "misandry in popular culture remains a dark secret" and "gender watchdogs" use a double standard that exposes the evils of misogyny but are "notably silent" about even the existence of misandry. They assert that "unlike misogyny, misandry is still generally unrecognized as a problem."

 

 

Jersey, if the shoe fits...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey Shortie]

Give me a break. I am a "misandrist" just because I said "guys suck". Whatever. That is silliness. Guys just can't deal with hearing the truth about what their actions do and how they effect women.

 

"Sounds like your not interested in loyalty."

 

No, it's apparently men who are not interested in loyalty. Lets be honest. Men are sitting there in front of porn and want not because they have a desire to be respectful and loyal to their partner.

[Trimmer]

Are you going to answer me, Jersey?

[Guest]

Man, you guys are sure going all out on that horse carcass! Wonder how many more hundred posts it'll take before someone acknowledges that some endeavors are just futile.

 

If anybody thinks they're making headway here, go have a look at the other porn thread, which is almost a mirror image of this one.

 

Point being, there are a lot of people for whom 'my mind is made up; don't bother me with facts' is a way of life. Trying to use logic = smacking your head repeatedly into a brick wall.

 

And just to be clear, it's the 'my guy looks at porn because he is a jerk' gang that I'm talking about. Once someone is heavily invested in believing something, it's generally hopeless to try to show them the error of their ways.

[Jersey Shortie]

What is the status of your current relationship; is it as good as you can imagine a relationship being? If not, what are you going to do about it?

 

Just because a guy looks at porn doesn't mean I don't care about him. It is hurtful to know you care about your guy and he is looking at porn. IT IS HURTFUL. What part of that is hard for guys to understand? I have never dated a guy that didn't look at porn. So yes, this is the best I can expect in men apparently.

[Zato]

Jersey - What is the point of you posting anymore? You are just raving about how your so mad at guys. Whats the point? You can be mad all you want but what are you trying to change? Is this just your venting post?

 

Your quite naive to assume all guys look at porn. I for one don't. You need to find someone with likewise views on porn if it such a big deal to you. Simple as that.

[Mr. Lucky]

You need to find someone with likewise views on porn if it such a big deal to you.

How can she? "All men suck" All "Men are sitting there in front of porn".

 

I could go on but you get the point...

 

Mr. Lucky

[rainfall]

Point being, there are a lot of people for whom 'my mind is made up; don't bother me with facts' is a way of life. Trying to use logic = smacking your head repeatedly into a brick wall.

 

And just to be clear, it's the 'my guy looks at porn because he is a jerk' gang that I'm talking about. Once someone is heavily invested in believing something, it's generally hopeless to try to show them the error of their ways.

 

There is no reason why a man should look at porn if it bothers and hurts his SO. If he continues to do so after he is aware of the pain it causes her he is a jerk. If nameless naked chicks mean more to him this his SO then he is a loser. Sorry. If people feel opposite on this issue they should not be together.