Phone Sex, Porn and the Internet in Relationships

[Trimmer]

We can go tit for tat, picking each other apart sentence by sentence, but in the end, all I can say is that I have heard you, and I believe I understand the points you have made. I can't and don't want to "defend" porn, I accept that some of what you have said happens with some people and is damaging to some relationships, but I disagree with many of your conclusions and many of the assertions you make as fact, and the generalizations you make across the broad spectrum of "men" and "women." And some of the things you feel very strongly about seem like not so much of a revelation: if the only difference between two women was attractiveness - a condition you proposed - a man would likely pick the more attractive one. Do we really need to stop the presses for this one?

 

Incidently, just to weigh in: I find most of what I think is the "classic" pornstar look pretty scary, and not particularly attractive to me, with the engineered boobs, etc... the whole look is so unnatural and plastic. I'm sorry, and I'm not claiming to speak for all or even most men in this, but, for example, I find Pamela Anderson to be a pretty scary looking woman. But you may not believe my saying that.... "Of course that is what he said. What do you think he was going to tell you??" You do twist and turn, Jersey....

 

I do accept and understand that many/most women don't like to be reminded that their men look at and think about other women. That makes perfect sense. I believe that a man who is insensitive to this is..... insensitive, at best. I understand that women like to feel special and uniquely loved, and it might surprise you (or you just won't believe me) that I feel that way, too. You seem to think that men won't or can't or refuse to try to understand women; I disagree. I believe that it is in the instinctive nature of men to look and fantasize, and it is within our intellectual capability to keep our behavior in response to this instinct under control. What constitutes "under control" is something that you and I will probably strongly disagree about.

 

Jersey, answer this: let's say you want to make some changes, and you somehow have the opportunity to define what changes you would make to "man," for the good of women everywhere, for whom you seem to be quite concerned. You've laid out a whole field of greivances, about which you are quite certain. Now please summarize how you would change us. Please be specific and comprehensive: what things are and are not acceptable in a man; what needs to change? And don't be vague here, because you already know that we men don't understand what is obvious to you, and from what I can tell, it's starting to sound a lot like a woman with a penis. Tell us what would be your ideal man...

 

What exactly am I worrying about that "might" happen?????? I am talking about something that is already happening, the fact that men still seek out other women, while in a relationship.

You missed her point. You keep talking with great authority about what is happening "out there." But you continue to conspicuously avoid the question: what is happening to you? I have exhausted any hope that anyone here might relieve your palpable anguish over what you perceive to be happening between all those other men and women in the world - but I still wish I could make some kind of a connection with what is happening in your personal experience. You complain, among other things that men refuse to attempt to understand women in relationships. Ironic, isn't it, that here I am, pleading with you to open up and help me understand YOU, not to hide behind what you say is happening to everyone else, as you presume to speak for others, but never yourself. Isn't that a metaphor...

 

The sky is falling, but what's happening with the ceiling in your house? (Sorry, once I get on a roll with the metaphors... )

 

I don't want to swear off men. I don't think I really ever could. I try to accept certain things about men but they usually leave me feeling sad and hurt at the end of the day and feeling like 2nd place. I don't know what the middle ground should be or how to find it. If I could answer your question I probably wouldn't post half the things I do post.

So Jersey, do you want to find that middle ground? Do you want to figure out what your real question is, so you can seek the answer that will help make you whole?

[Trimmer]

On a side note, I have really enjoyed this thread....

Me, too. I am thankful to you, nj, LJ and Jersey for giving me a lot of serious stuff to think about. Turns out this wasn't just the SOPT (same ol' porn thread) after all...

[Mr. Lucky]

If men were so concerned about individuality as you said...they wouldn't love porn so much.

 

I wonder how much porn he looks at to keep that going.

 

bigot

 

One entry found for bigot. Main Entry: big·ot

Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t

Function: noun

Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot

: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

 

Like it or not Jersey, this is you. Your disgust for "men" as a group (as if we were that organized ) reveals more about you than it does about "them".

 

Mr. Lucky

[Trimmer]

One entry found for bigot....

For as strongly as I disagree with Jersey, I don't think this helps or adds anything useful to the discussion. She came here sharing her strong feelings, and indeed they may reveal much about her; I think she is looking for something - an answer, some understanding, maybe just a path to embark upon - that she can't quite put her finger on yet. Pasting a label like this on a poster - especially your choice of a label with strong negative connotations most commonly associated with racism and xenophobia - doesn't add anything to the discussion in an otherwise thoughtful thread.

[Ladybug313]

"Married men are the happiest, married women are the most depressed. Single women are the happiest, single men most depressed."

--I just read this and copied it but I forgot where I got it from, was it PinkTulip?

Anyway, I am from an Asian country and they did this survey in my country too, and jeez the comparison was overwhelming. I think more than half the married women said they were miserable and not many married men were depressed, they were quite happy actually. Wheres single women were jumping for joy all over the map and single men were lonely and depressed and looking for partners. Interesting.

--This also brought up a personal thing for me too. Once when I was just really tired from taking care of the baby and housework and feeling lonely and feeling like I didn't have a life anymore besides baby husband and my husband's family, I blew up at my husband (it was a little emotional) and he was so taken aback. He was like "wow I was so happy and content with our life I had no idea you were so stressed out. I thought since I was comfortable and happy you were as well. Wow, this is bad."

 

I found this site when I, too had a question about my husband looking at porn (I guess it;'s common all over the world, tee hee).

 

I found it very enlightening and I actually thought women here in the U.S are lucky to even be able to bring up that porn bothers them, and how men can work to make them feel loved and all that. Had I done this at home I would have been shunned as being outspoken rude and unladylike. I do mean this seriously.

 

I feel in limbo sometimes cuz with my American schooling and at the same time Asian culture I don't know what to think sometimes, but that's another thread.

 

Anyway, to add to the porn issue.

I don't think it's always about men wanting to look at pretty big boobed women. My husband watches his fair share of porn but the majority of it is acutally amateur porn. You know, the off tilt shady bad angled looks-like-it was home-made but not amateur sites. And goodness, these people are nothing like the Jenna Jameson or Pam Anderson women. They look like you and me, big boobs, saggy boobs, small boobs, short, tall what have you. Same with the men. They're not exactly all muscular and well-endowed or anything. Christ, I mean there were some clips where a pregnant woman was going at it with a guy. Having been pregnant myself, I honestly don't know how she got in those positions but anyway.

In those I think my husband gets off on the stuff they;'re doing, and it's even kinkier in some respect cuz it's just regular looking people doing god knows what whereas the typical airbrushed stars you expect them to do stuff like that you know what I mean?

 

I hope I don't offend or hurt Jerseyshortie than how much she's hurting right now, but I honestly do believe, Jerseyshortie, that you may be taking this porn thing too personally. It honestly may not have anything at all to do with you, it's what YOU think it is, not your husband? bf? was it?

 

I personally don't even feel bad when my husband comments on a pretty girl or actress or whatever. He likes boobs (what man doesn't? am I wrong in that?) and comments on them, but it doesn't bother me at all. I comment right along with him, cuz well to tell you the truth I noticed them myself!

And I am not well-endowed there in any means, I am sure you can find men with more boobs than me, but I won't go into that hehe. But that doesn't do anything to my self-esteem, though there are times where I wish I could have bigger boobs so I could look just ravishing in those beautiful strapless tube gowns, I am pretty content with my boyish body. And hell with a 7 month baby and my body back at my boyish 103 pound frame (with a now much softer belly but that's ok too ) I think I am doing just fine! But just cuz I don't have the boobs doesn't make me feel horrible that my husband enjoys looking at other boobs. I don't take it personally at all. I have always just had the impression men like women's bodies in any shape or form, and well if they're attractive a little more bonus points there!

So when porn comes in I just see that plus sex, and boy now that is a man's dream come true. Women and women having raunchy sex. woo hoo.

 

Now I am not trying to defend porn in any way. I have seen how it has ruined marriages and relationships and men unable to have regular lives cuz they are so drawn to it etc. It is a problem when it is a problem, but I think a lot of the times we women tend to project our issues into it more than we should. I have been guilty of doing it, and I have felt that when my mindset is in a happier place about life in general, all of a sudden that aspect doesn't bother me either. Not saying this is true for everyone just saying it is for me.

And when I was feeling insecure and overwhlemed about our baby and life, his porn use did bother me all of a sudden, and I posted about that. But now I think it was more of me needing somethign to project my insecurities onto and that was the perfect thing. Again not saying this is true for everyone, I agree porn can be a huge problem!!

 

Sorry this got so long.

[Ladybug313]

Sorry one more thing and I am gone.

Jerseyshortie, I noticed you posted something about if a man had a choice between partner (or "regular" women) and Miss Porn Star he'd choose the porn star hands down cuz men just go for looks.

"Who do you htink he would pick though if he had a chance with Miss Porn Star. Say all things between you two were equal in personality and such. I would bet every time the guys would pick the porn star all things being equal in other areas. So that pretty much says that all she has to do is spread her legs and show up on screen and you have to work your ass of just to get a little affection and attention."

 

--I have straight out experience on this one. And you know what? My husband came home to me and our child.

We were in Korea (home of origin) where bars where very beautiful (even classier than porn stars but kinda porn starrish just the same) women accompany you and serve you drinks and well, flirt with you. Some men take it further of course, for more money. It's the norm there and men actually go there to do business. I guess you can say it's a slightly different version of a strip bar cuz in Korea strip bars (I believe) are illegal. I personally find them a lot more tempting then strip bars cuz you are actually one on one with these ladies, each woman for a man. My husband went with a group of friends. Now some of you may think I was nutso for letting him go, but I am also someone who doesn't care if he goes to strip bars here in the U.S and I just trusted him 100% not to do anything that would be wrong to me.

One of the ladies there took a liking to him and blatantly asked him to go to a hotel with her, fully knowing he was married and had a baby. She was all over him at the bar, according to my husband and his friends, who told me as well. (some of those friends actually called him a "pussy" for turning down that "hot piece of ass". I am proud to say he's not associating with those guys anymore) My husband admits, she was young and she was hot. But that's all. He had fun with the guys he enjoyed the ladies' company to a limit and when she pushed herself on him, he said he had to come home to baby and me. And he did. He came home to me. Earlier than I thought too.

This wasn't a porn movie, nor a 2 dimensional woman on a screen. This was a very real very hot looking woman who pretty much "spread her legs" if indicating so a little more subtlely (is this even a word? sorry) but my husband turned her down.

Now I know I don't and WON'T ever look anything like her.

He could have done god knows what with her but he chose to come home to me. That long full figured leggy young thing or little ol' me? Little ol' me.

I hope it's cuz he loves me and I am the woman for him and he knows what a marriage is. Or maybe he has strange taste in women and thinks I am the Miss Porn Star. hehe. shrug.

 

I hope I didn't take your post Jerseyshortie and make it a lighthearted nothing to worry about thing. I can read from your posts that you are really suffering and my heart honetsly goes out to you. I just wanted to offer a different perspective, perhaps to cheer you up a little, and also because it may not be the horrible thing you think it is...

 

Maybe a little more specification of your situation might help, I kinda found your posts a bit generalized.

 

Thanks for reading this long thing, anyone who did.

And as English is not my first language, if there are misprints and typos and weird stuff that made this whole thing a jumbled mess, my apologies.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think she is looking for something - an answer, some understanding, maybe just a path to embark upon - that she can't quite put her finger on yet.

 

Here is the original quote:

 

"Look at it this way. No matter who you are with there is always someone else out there better: prettier, sexier, smarter, richer, etc. And if you spend your whole life looking for a better deal, you'll find one. Problem is, you've spent your life, not invested it.

 

I fell in love with my wife because she was cute and nice and crazy about me. She still is all those things 20 years later, but now there's something more, and it's something I cannot find anywhere else: it's because it's HER. We have a life shared together, and that is absolutely irreplaceable. The life I gave her is part of her, and the life she gave me is part of me. Without her, I'm just not myself. "

 

And here was Jersey's response:

 

"I wonder how much porn he looks at to keep that going."

 

Now you might consider that the thoughts of someone along the path of an intellectual journey. But to me, that's just a hater, plain and simple. And when the basis for ones being the object of that hate is just inclusion in a group - sexual, racial or ethnic - then I don't see what other conclusion you can draw. She's not sharing "strong feelings", her blanket condemnation of men is just as wrong as the racism or xenophobia you allude to.

 

Mr. Lucky

[Trimmer]

Mr. Lucky -

 

I'm not saying you're wrong... As a matter of fact, her comment that you cite stuck out to me, too - even moreso because it was directed towards another woman, tearing away at something positive she had said about her own partner. It did strike me as particularly meanspirited...

 

I guess what I'm saying is: when you encounter a xenophobe, or a racist, or a man-hater, or irrespective of labels, a frustrated, angry person who is lashing out with intolerance, who at least acknowledges the possibility of a middle ground, acknowledges that there may be an undefined question that merits consideration:

 

I don't know what the middle ground should be or how to find it. If I could answer your question I probably wouldn't post half the things I do post.

 

...do you throw a label on them in disgust, or do you continue to engage them in conversation? Which one is more likely to move the process forward in a positive way? Assuming that's your goal, of course.

 

( In case B_O is reading: ) I'm just sayin'...

[Mr. Lucky]

Trimmer:

Here a quote from Jersey on the first page of this thread:

 

 

Here's one from the middle:

 

 

And this one from near the end:

It's the fact that even when men are in relationships, they don't try to be loyal any more then they have to.

I'm still trying to identify the positive process you describe. Her anecdotal methodology -"it happened to me so it must true at all times for everyone everywhere" - is a staple of groups and individuals with similarly closed-minded agendas. But hey, at least she is selective - she only hates those of us with penises.

Mr. Lucky

[Trimmer]

Hey, I'm basically with you; as a matter of fact, if you have enough time on your hands and you go back and review my own posts in this thread, I'm pretty sure you'll find that I myself quoted and took exception to at least 2 of the three examples you just gave. I agree, she seems completely entrenched, and I had just about run out of energy trying to convince her to budge on any of her positions or opinions, until I read the quote I gave above:

 

I don't know what the middle ground should be or how to find it. If I could answer your question I probably wouldn't post half the things I do post.

This sounds to me like an angry person whose anger stems from fear of some kind - fear of the unknown? Fear of being hurt? Hurt again?

 

You see her anger, and it is palpable and overwhelming. Fine, I don't disagree with your perception, nor, really, with your characterization of her.

 

However, in her statement above, I hear the tiniest, remote possibility that she might somewhere realize that she wants a way out. I don't presume to know this, I'm just taking a guess. It's not a huge thing, not a process, not an intellectual journey, or anything I'm certain of, it's just a tiny hint. That's all.

 

You see relentless anger that overwhelms anything else, and you are ready to give up on her - that's fine; I don't intend to talk you out of it. I see that too, and I've stopped quoting her and taking exceptions point-by-point, as it's not getting us anywhere. But I also see this small possibility of a self realization, and that's why I'm asking her to share details of her personal situation, like we all do around here (and I'm hoping she'll do so soon, so we can get back to her point, in her thread, and leave behind these meta-issues with "her" in the 3rd person...)

 

Bottom line: I won't try to talk you out of your points - they are valid as far as they go, but they haven't convinced me to give up completely on this thread. Only she can do that. (And she may well find this extremely presumptuous of me - which it is - and tell me to go take a hike or something less subtle, which advice I will respectfully follow.)

 

So in the end, what do you want to convince me of? That your use of "bigot" was correct? OK, let's say I accept that, or at least I don't wish to argue it any more, as your point is made, it's on record, and it's now an issue irrelevant to the continuation of the thread. Is there anything else?

[Sense & Sensibility]

and I had just about run out of energy trying to convince her to budge on any of her positions or opinions

 

Usually a completely futile exercise. People will remain firmly entrenched in their positions even when they realize that they are wrong; after a point it becomes a matter of pride to 'stay the course' regardless (or maybe because of) however thoroughly you've been proved wrong.

[Pink_Tulip]

Yes there are ignorant, short sighted people who refuse to see the other side, but many people are not like that. Look at this very thread, Ladybug shared her story about having an issue with porn until she learned it wasn't about her, and now is ok with it. Look at Woggle, who drove every female insane with his 'all women' statements, and is now in therapy and acknowledging that his behavior could potentially damage his marriage.

 

That you assume everyone is like you and won't admit to a mistake is your issue. I agree with T on this one. Maybe you are right, maybe not. But attacking someone for their beliefs does not help them see the error in their thinking, it only makes them defensive and dig their heels in. So you do that, make everyone around you refuse to see your point since it comes in an attack, and then comment that no one changes their mind. Hmm....

[PussInHeels]

Which brings me to porn again…

 

I personally don’t mind porn as such, but it seems that porn is more about hot chicks than anything else. As I don’t find looking and sexy females a turn-on, I don’t particularly enjoy ‘regular’ porn.

 

What is it in it that you, as a woman, like?

 

I guess I see it in a different way. I see the woman (for the most part/supposed to be) enjoying herself, and relate to how it might feel. I enjoy it more with my husband because I like seeing him excited.

 

It's really more of a mental than visual thing. The sight of a naked woman alone isn't really that interesting for me by itself (I am attracted to women, but I don't usually find women in porn attractive). It's just that every once in a while, the visuals give things a little push. But my imagination is what gets things going, so I think of it as a supplement. Maybe not many women feel the same way I do, and that's fine. But there are women that enjoy porn sometimes, and I don't think that makes them strange.

[Mr. Lucky]

So you do that, make everyone around you refuse to see your point since it comes in an attack, and then comment that no one changes their mind. Hmm....

I guess I feel that reasonable people have a responsibiltiy to confront these types of "ism"s - fanatacism, racism or in this case, blatant sexism - or risk condoning those attitudes. More than once, I've gotten in arguements (including a near fight last month, pretty ridiculous at age 50) because I don't laugh or turn away when someone tell a joke where the punchline is "lazy spics" or "cheap jews" or ".......". It's wrong and I feel compelled to point that out.

 

I do agree that I have somewhat taken this thread off track. For that I apologize...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Pink_Tulip]

I guess I feel that reasonable people have a responsibiltiy to confront these types of "ism"s - fanatacism, racism or in this case, blatant sexism - or risk condoning those attitudes. More than once, I've gotten in arguements (including a near fight last month, pretty ridiculous at age 50) because I don't laugh or turn away when someone tell a joke where the punchline is "lazy spics" or "cheap jews" or ".......". It's wrong and I feel compelled to point that out.

 

I do agree that I have somewhat taken this thread off track. For that I apologize...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

No Mr. Lucky, I think it is honorable that you stand up for what you believe in. I was just trying to make the point that the way you were going about it, in reality, will only push Jersey into a hole and reinforce her opinions about men. You are welcome to stay and discuss the topic with us. Maybe you have thoughts or opinions on the topic that will help others?

[Pink_Tulip]

I guess I see it in a different way. I see the woman (for the most part/supposed to be) enjoying herself, and relate to how it might feel. I enjoy it more with my husband because I like seeing him excited.

 

It's really more of a mental than visual thing. The sight of a naked woman alone isn't really that interesting for me by itself (I am attracted to women, but I don't usually find women in porn attractive). It's just that every once in a while, the visuals give things a little push. But my imagination is what gets things going, so I think of it as a supplement. Maybe not many women feel the same way I do, and that's fine. But there are women that enjoy porn sometimes, and I don't think that makes them strange.

 

Hey, thanks for contributing. If you have read this thread you know I have embarassingly little experience with porn, lol. But, how does seeing your H being turned on by someone else not bother you? I know if I were watching porn with my H and he was getting into it, I would feel like a second choice, if that makes sense. I played devils advocate with my H the other day b/c of this thread, and I said I had no problem if he wanted to look at porn occasionally, and that I would too. I could tell he was curious to look at it, but the thought of me looking at it and being turned on/masturbating bothered him, so I know there is at least ONE other person in this world who feels like I do. Did it ever bother you, and you just got over it? Do you mind me asking your age (or age range)?

[Mr. Lucky]

You are welcome to stay and discuss the topic with us. Maybe you have thoughts or opinions on the topic that will help others?

Most of the porn I've come across just didn't have great appeal to me - I must have missed what Jersey seems to think is the gene that automatically gives males a predisposition to prefer porn over their SO

 

Regardless, I wouldn't engage in any sexually related activity that made my wife unhappy. I need to keep her happy so she can make me happy!

 

Mr. Lucky

[Pink_Tulip]

Lol, my H would agree that keeping the wife happy always ends up serving the H in the end.

 

Thank you for sharing, I think it is important that men who feel as you do post to show Jersey that whatever she is dealing with is not indicitive of all men.

[Ripples]

Thank you all so much for this thread, especially Trimmer for giving the male perspective in such a comprehensive, articulate and understandable way.

 

You'll never know how much better you've made me feel. Thank you

[Pink_Tulip]

OMG, I was just rereading this thread and I had an epiphany. First this:

 

I do feel like men excuse their behavior so that they can have it all. The one woman who will be home for him when he gets home, and the fake woman who he really wants to masturbate too. I am obviously not the only woman that feels this way. This message board is filled with threads that are not so far different. You would think men would say.."gee, yeah wow I guess porn does effect them different and maybe this stuff is harmful". But do men say that? No. They just defend it time and time again.

 

Then this:

 

I do accept and understand that many/most women don't like to be reminded that their men look at and think about other women. That makes perfect sense. I believe that a man who is insensitive to this is..... insensitive, at best. I understand that women like to feel special and uniquely loved, and it might surprise you (or you just won't believe me) that I feel that way, too.

 

In how many porn threads has the women really been validated for her feelings? Usually everyone tells her to get over it and let her man do what he wants, right? I think that is a big problem right there. I think we can all agree that a little understanding goes a long way. I think many women who are dealing with this just want to be heard and validated, but their H's are so busy defending that it explodes. Then they get on a message board and are told the same thing. You can't understand an issue when everytime you ask a question or express a feeling, someone is telling you to get over it. And I think that is true in most situations, not just porn.

 

I know I am rambling, but I hope that makes sense. Jersey, is this your situation at home? Is your SO refusing to hear you on this? Just curious.

[Jersey Shortie]

I am not a bigot and I don't hate men. There are many ways that I love men and if I hated men this issue wouldn't bother me so damn much. There are many things about men's sexuality that is exciting and wonderful. And there are many things that can also be hurtful and damaging. But it seems like some men don't want to acknowledge that.

 

 

I do accept and understand that many/most women don't like to be reminded that their men look at and think about other women. That makes perfect sense. I believe that a man who is insensitive to this is..... insensitive, at best.

 

So the solution is that you are suppose to pretend you don't think about other women and she is suppoe to pretend you don't think about other women to in an atempt to have any kind of relationship at all with a man.

 

 

I understand that women like to feel special and uniquely loved, and it might surprise you (or you just won't believe me) that I feel that way, too.

 

Then why don't men want to make women feel this way? Why do you want to make every other woman that you don't have seem more important?

 

 

You seem to think that men won't or can't or refuse to try to understand women; I disagree.

 

I don't think men care to understand women.

 

 

 

I believe that it is in the instinctive nature of men to look and fantasize, and it is within our intellectual capability to keep our behavior in response to this instinct under control. What constitutes "under control" is something that you and I will probably strongly disagree about.

 

Then sadly, maybe men shouldn't have committed relationships where they claim they love and care about someone if they are going to think about every other woman they don't have and masturbate to her.

 

 

 

Tell us what would be your ideal man...

 

 

One that cared what his SO felt and thought. One that loves his SO. One that was loyal and graceful and felt comfortable enough and secure enough as a man, that he didn't on a continual baisis need to seek out other women even while he is committed to another.

 

 

 

So Jersey, do you want to find that middle ground? Do you want to figure out what your real question is, so you can seek the answer that will help make you whole?

 

Very much so. But I am begining to think the middle ground is women shut up about the porn, men keep jerking off to it and any other women they please, and you both pretend like it doesn't happen.

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

LadyBug:

 

 

"I hope I don't offend or hurt Jerseyshortie than how much she's hurting right now, but I honestly do believe, Jerseyshortie, that you may be taking this porn thing too personally. It honestly may not have anything at all to do with you, it's what YOU think it is, not your husband? bf? was it?"

 

I give up. The porn can be his fantasy and he can let it keep him warm at night.

 

 

 

 

I personally don't even feel bad when my husband comments on a pretty girl or actress or whatever. He likes boobs (what man doesn't? am I wrong in that?) and comments on them, but it doesn't bother me at all. I comment right along with him, cuz well to tell you the truth I noticed them myself!

 

Do you comment to him how hot another man is ? How much money another man makes ? Does he comment on those things about other men?

 

See, this always confused me. Women are suppose to be all supportive of other women her man finds hot but ask a guy to be teh same way and he gets all jealous and doesn't want to talk about it.

 

Thank you for sharing your experiences though Ladybug. I am glad you are in a better place now.

 

Although, your story was nice in away. I can't get of the fact that while your husband had a wife and baby at home waiting for him, he was out with his friends fantasing about other women and putting himself in an obviously sexual environment with other women, regardless if he followed through or not.

 

 

but I think a lot of the times we women tend to project our issues into it more than we should. But now I think it was more of me needing somethign to project my insecurities onto and that was the perfect thing. Again not saying this is true for everyone, I agree porn can be a huge problem!!

 

I honestly think women wouldn't have the insecurities they have if we felt like men valued us and felt like we were good enough for them. But the truth is that is not how men feel otherwise they wouldn't enjoy porn so much. Men say.."oh you are just being insecure.." Well duh. Yes I am being insecure. You are getting excited over other women. That is very naturally a threat to me. Why are you here if you just want to masturbate to other women?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

I know I am rambling, but I hope that makes sense. Jersey, is this your situation at home? Is your SO refusing to hear you on this? Just curious.

 

Guys never want to talk about honestly. They tell you are just being silly or stupid or insecure or whatever and go back to defending the porn. Well if the porn isn't so important, why is it the thing that is always defended? OF course I am insecure about this. Men's fantasy's are women that no *real* women can live up to. Where do I fit in that? I don't. Is it so bad that I want to be his fantasy? That just can't ever be. I just have to settle for being the chick he settles for.

 

Not to mention how degrading porn is. Is this how men feel about women? do men like seeing women treated like a used car to be passed aorund and used and thrown away for the next new car. Do men really not care about women at all? Because porn is not exactly about respect or treating women nicely. And it makes me think that men don't like women very much or have much care or regard or respect for them.

 

There is always going to be someone newer, prettier..whatever. And it seems that men are always going to be on the path to seek that out no matter ouw much they sprout about love.

 

So this is why I don't understand why men bother engaging in relationships with women.

[Mr. Lucky]

There is always going to be someone newer, prettier..whatever. And it seems that men are always going to be on the path to seek that out no matter ouw much they sprout about love.

 

So this is why I don't understand why men bother engaging in relationships with women.

 

OK, let's flip your post around:

 

"There is always going to be someone newer, richer..whatever. And it seems that women are always going to be on the path to seek that out no matter how much they sprout about love.

 

So this is why I don't understand why women bother engaging in relationships with men"

 

Does that cliche-ridden drivel ("all women are golddiggers") contribute anything real to a discussion about relationships? No it doesn't, even though these boards are full of posts from guys whose SO's left them for, amongst others, financial reasons.

 

You've taken a very real topic - Some Men's Interest in Porn and Its Effect on Their Relationship - and buried it under a landslide of prejudice, stereotyping, half-truths, un-truths and urban myths. Seems to make any intelligent or reasonable discussion almost impossible.

 

Mr. Lucky

[Trimmer]

I don't think men care to understand women.

I'm sorry you feel this way. It must be very frustrating.

 

You know, there's nothing left that I want to say, Jersey. On one hand I would tell you of my feelings as to why I entered my relationship, the depth and intensity of the love I shared with my wife, and why I stayed with her even after she strayed 12 years ago, but based on the tone of your posts, I would expect that you would invalidate my feelings and tell me that obviously, I didn't love her because... and why did I even bother pretending, if..... Well, anyway, I know what I feel.

 

Well, it's a good thing we had this whole discussion before our relationship got any more serious, eh, Jersey?

 

Mr. Lucky - beer's on me next time you're in town.

 

Ladies - thank you for a great discussion, and for hearing me out...

[Guest]

I honestly think women wouldn't have the insecurities they have if we felt like men valued us and felt like we were good enough for them.

 

Lame. Seriously. Your insecurity is your problem. I'm female. I'm not insecure. I'm not insecure because I understand that men do not think we 'aren't good enough for them 'or that 'porn stars are better.'

 

You, on the other hand, have constructed a major set of bogus beliefs that you cling to. Sadly, there's no truth to them. You make yourself miserable believing things that aren't true. That's your choice. You can blame the whole entire world for the problem but in the end the problem is in your head and it's to you to fix. And if you can't be bothered fixing it, then quit whining about it.

[Ladybug313]

"Jersey Shortie writes, Do you comment to him how hot another man is ? How much money another man makes ? Does he comment on those things about other men?

 

See, this always confused me. Women are suppose to be all supportive of other women her man finds hot but ask a guy to be teh same way and he gets all jealous and doesn't want to talk about it.

 

Thank you for sharing your experiences though Ladybug. I am glad you are in a better place now.

 

Although, your story was nice in away. I can't get of the fact that while your husband had a wife and baby at home waiting for him, he was out with his friends fantasing about other women and putting himself in an obviously sexual environment with other women, regardless if he followed through or not."

 

--My answer:--I'll try to answer each and every question as best I can, Jersey.

Yes I comment to him on how hot another guy is, mostly actors. Some people don't know why I think this way but I find the actor Colin Farrell quite delicious and more, and I mention it to him all the time. Or if we pass some guy in the street and he looks like a model or something I'd say "wow that guy looks like a Calvin Klein model". My husband doesn't get jealous in the least, in fact he comments as well, "oh you should see some of the guys in my school, they're hot, but the girls in my class end up disappointed cuz they turn out to be gay most of the time. Seems a lot of hot guys tend to be gay guys." He's nice enough sometimes when he goes to Blockbuster to rent some movies while I am home with the baby he comes home with some Colin Farrell movies. haha. I like the actor but not THAAAT much but his gesture was sweet I thought. He doesn't get threatened at all by any other guy comments I make, be it person on the street or actor, whatever.

--And I have never cared about how much money a guy makes so I never really commented on that, except for the general "that Donald Trump is really rich eh?" type stuff.

 

--As for my husband being out with his buddies, and having women (adult entertainment-eque women) there. Hmm, I never actually thought of him going out there to "seek" such woman out, or fantasizing about them (who knows I can't jump inside his head). That kinda just never crossed my mind, I simply just saw it as a guy's night out except they were where women were, and sexual or not, I just trusted that he wouldn't go as far as to betray me. Hmm come to think of it some women may think the fact that he was in such an environment in the first place is already betraying me but I don't think so, personally. And it's not like he does this every day, sometimes I like the fact that i get the house to myself, baby or no.

 

"My last post":

but I think a lot of the times we women tend to project our issues into it more than we should. But now I think it was more of me needing somethign to project my insecurities onto and that was the perfect thing. Again not saying this is true for everyone, I agree porn can be a huge problem!!

 

Jersey: I honestly think women wouldn't have the insecurities they have if we felt like men valued us and felt like we were good enough for them. But the truth is that is not how men feel otherwise they wouldn't enjoy porn so much. Men say.."oh you are just being insecure.." Well duh. Yes I am being insecure. You are getting excited over other women. That is very naturally a threat to me. Why are you here if you just want to masturbate to other women?

 

My answer: I totally understand the feelnig insecure part, I agree I have felt this way before, and not always about porn or my hubby looking at other women, just other life things in general. Yes we end up feeling insecure but ultimately I think it's cuz we let ourselves. I don't think these guys are out there to purposelly make us feel insecure by their activities, it's how we take it and how we decide to feel insecure. Not saying that thus our feelings should be dismissed and we just have to "deal with it" (which I DO hate when guys say that by the way.not all guys of course)

Ok, this may be a bad example but let's take a boob example again (me and boobs geez! )

Though this would be a mean thing to say to a woman let's say a guy goes

"wow you got small boobs"

If I were in a position where I was really self-conscious about my boobs and I hated them, and I was insecure about them, that comment would blow me off my rocker, I;d feel so hurt and awful!

But if I knew my boobs were small and I was damn proud of em, I honestly don't think that comment would bother me, except pehaps thinking how rude the person saying it was but that's different. I'd prolly be like "yeah they're small all right"

--maybe this is a bad example I dont know, argh.

But what I am trying to say is I think the way we decide to think and feel about something definitely affects how we react to said situation, and in this case, porn....

 

Ok I am giving myself a headache.

 

I don't know why I keep coming back to this thread, but it;s your pain that gets to me Jersey. You say a lot of things in anger but I think there's somethign that's really really hurting you, but if you are confident that what you think is absolutely correct, I guess I can't convince you. I hope everything works out for the best. Happy Thanksgiving.