Phone Sex, Porn and the Internet in Relationships

[new_stella]

Porn is only one of your problems, Jersey, and not the root one.

Your problem goes beyond just porn use, though, doesn't it, Jersey? You hate the way men are; porn just happens to be a very visible symptom of that in some men. But as I have said earlier in this thread, take away porn, and you will still be disgusted by what you perceive to be the disrespect and disloyalty of men - at its root, it's not about the porn.

Absolutely agree. The problem is much more complex.

 

(Don't jump too quickly to deny this, as I'm going to quote you later...)

Being an engineer myself, I can completely relate to your need to organise everything logically and to look for contradictions in her posts.

But if you concentrate solely on logic, you run the risk of loosing the big picture, which includes completely irrational and illogical feelings.

Besides, if you take into account highly emotional state she is in, you simply cannot expect that everything she says is absolutely rational and logical.

 

That's just a convenient refrain to jump back to, to shift the playing field when you find yourself cornered in an argument.

True, but again, this is not about winning an argument, is it?

 

You believe that even thinking it is disrespectful. You do expect him not to get turned on by another woman.

I believe she does. I do too. Unreasonable? Yes, I know. But that doesn’t change how I feel.

When you suggest you 'adapt to understand the nature of men', Trimmer, do you have any concrete ideas how to do it?

 

I was never able to understand how that works with men and I really tried.

 

These are my thoughts:

(Since English is not my first language, I’m not sure I’ll be able to explain precisely it feels, but I will try anyway):

1. My husband loves sex and sex is very important to him.
   
2. My H and I have amazing sex life and we both find it important and very special part of our relationship
   • To me it means: I am so turned on by him and by what we have, that I stopped been turned on by other men. I use my time and imagination to ‘invent’ our little sexual games and he just loves them. I don't even look at other men sexually.
     
   • To him it means: He gets turned on by other women and ‘uses’ his sexual energy on someone else. He enjoys my ideas, but rarely makes suggestions. I don’t mind being imaginative one until I realise that this only makes him hornier for other outlets, like porn and fantasies about other women. When we talk about it he says that this is not important at all. Hypothetically, he could have sex with someone and that would mean nothing, while sex with me means everything.

[*]Now, my question is: how can sex be so important and so unimportant at the same time??

[norajane]

3. Now, my question is: how can sex be so important and so unimportant at the same time??

 

It's important in the context of a relationship because it's about more than sex. In a committed relationship, the sex includes emotional and intellectual intimacy. In a committed relationship, men express their love through sex (giving pleasure) and feel loved through sex (receiving pleaure).

 

Outside of a relationship, sex is just sex and is nothing more than a physical release, and therefore, unimportant.

 

Masturbation can be just a release of tension. Porn is the means by which that sexual tension is released most efficiently.

[Jersey Shortie]

Jersey, you remain consistently delusional, but in a kind of charmingly self-destructive way. If I felt the way about women that you feel about men, my life would be very, very empty. If you don't trust, you can't love

 

 

I might be charming and self-destructive but I am not delusional.

 

I don't know how I am suppose to trust men when, whenever you turn your back they are thinking about all the other women they don't have. How am I suppose to have trust and faith in that?

 

 

 

And you, Jersey, who have no specific experience with the depths and extremes that disloyalty can really go to

 

You have no right to tell me that what I feel is disloyal is somehow less then the pain or whatever you experieced from a cheating partner. You don't know or understand.

 

 

 

 

.... have somehow burned into your psyche the idea that a man noticing and thinking of other women is disrespectful.

 

 

Whatever. Notice whatever woman you want. Validate them. Then turn to your partner and take it out on them sexually because you can't go boinking the other person. That is what men do isn't it?

 

 

Your problem goes beyond just porn use, though, doesn't it, Jersey? You hate the way men are;

 

No I don't hate the way men are. And there are a few choice names I am calling you right now in my head. I like men for how they are different. Otherwise I would be trying to have romantic relatoinships with women.

 

There are many good things about men's sexuality. However, there are many things that are over-whelming and disappointing and make me sad at the lack and ability men have to be loyal to their partner. Things that make me feel disrespected and less important to him because of his need to validate any cute female.

 

But you are right that porn is not the only problem. However, it is still a problem and an important problem to me. At the extent that men place importance on porn.

 

 

 

You believe that even thinking it is disrespectful. You do expect him not to get turned on by another woman...

 

 

Well if you are thinking about other women sexually. Then juts go have sex with them and don't pretend you care about your partner or are being loyal. Don't have a relationship and then turn around and expect your partner to feel good in the fact that you seek out other women to think about.

 

 

You sound pretty confident that you expect pretty much all men to be uniformly shallow, disloyal, porn addicts who only pretend to care about relationships and the women in them. Is your world really this horrible and bleak? On one hand, I don't want to insult you by offering pity, but I am truly sorry for you.

 

Well this is the example men have taught that is true. I don't think it isn't that men don't care about their relationships with women at all. I just don't think that level of care extends over the men themselves. I just don't think women are important enough to them to give up all the other women. So they can have the relationship, and still have other women on the side. Even if it is in a shallow form like a porno video. It is the perfect way to make your woman feel like she doesn't matter or that she isn't important. And that is the message it sends.

 

 

 

'adapt to understand the nature of men'

 

And when do men adapt to understand the nature of women? because maybe if they did, this wouldn't have to be an issue.

[Trimmer]

You have no right to tell me that what I feel is disloyal is somehow less then the pain or whatever you experieced from a cheating partner. You don't know or understand.

That isn't what I said at all, if you'll go back and read the paragraph in context. I was musing over how even with my own experience of betrayal and disloyalty, I still somehow have hope for women (and even for you, with men.) You talk about loyalty as if you are an expert from personal experience, but you haven't told us of your experience with disloyalty, other than that your boyfriend looks at porn, and how it makes you feel (which, incidentally, I accept and believe I understand, given the other feelings you've shared in this thread...) And yet, based on that background, you seem to have given up hope, and I wonder why that is. I didn't mean to minimize your pain, and I apologize if it seemed I did.

 

You don't know or understand.

You are absolutely correct about this, but I've been trying to. Your anger, frustration and loss of hope is so clear and so strong, I have to wonder what else has happened to you. How many times in this thread have I asked you what is happening in your relationship, what has happened in your life to make you feel this way? C'mon Jersey - tell us about it! What's your story? The only exposure we have to each other in this community is what we share in our words - we don't see each other in the store, we don't hear about each other via family members, the rumor mill, or gossip. If you don't share it, it isn't a part of my understanding of you. Don't come on here expecting me to understand whatever pain you're in without giving me a decent view of what's going on.

 

Then turn to your partner and take it out on them sexually because you can't go boinking the other person. That is what men do isn't it?

Is that what sex is, in your experience? Is it a battle, a fight, an account to be settled? Is that how you've been treated, sexually?

 

But you are right that porn is not the only problem. However, it is still a problem and an important problem to me. At the extent that men place importance on porn.

Well, then, if we're limiting ourselves to that problem (and that's fair, as that's how you started the thread) then my advice remains to communicate with your boyfriend your concerns and see if he can give you some satisfaction. If not, then you need to move on and seek a man with whom you see "eye-to-eye" on this important problem. They do exist. As in many relationship situations, just because it won't be easy doesn't mean it's not the right thing for you to do - as I said earlier, it's not "easy" for anyone to find a healthy, compatible partner, but those who put the effort in sometimes find what they seek. If you refuse to at least try, you certainly won't find it.

 

 

And when do men adapt to understand the nature of women? because maybe if they did, this wouldn't have to be an issue.

What the heck do you think I'm doing here? I don't claim men have no responsibilty to understand women - I believe strongly that in a healthy relationship you owe this to each other.

 

And you may not believe me, but I think that both men and women all over the world - not all but some - are doing this within their marriages all the time.

 

Maybe this is a glass half empty/glass half full thing. You look around, and see a situation you don't like, and you assume it's everywhere - this is how "men are" - and you lose hope. I look around and I say, this isn't how "men are" everywhere - some are different - and I think, maybe it's not easy, but there's no cause to completely lose hope.

 

If you or I take on the whole world and try to change it all at once, we are most likely destined to failure and frustration. As the woman who married my wife and me said, you try to change the world one life at a time. Jersey, imagine what you want and deserve and go out and find it. And if you still tell me "I can't", then that's really your first and most important problem, isn't it?

[Mr. Lucky]

And when do men adapt to understand the nature of women?

Short answer? Everyday

 

It's the only way a relationship can survive, let alone prosper. One accepts the challenge (and in some cases, the burden) of creating an overlap between two lives. And you can't do that without taking into account how that other person's actions, beliefs and values interact with yours.

 

How does this mysterious boyfriend's core values - other than regarding the subject of porn - match with yours ?

 

Mr. Lucky

[misscatch_22]

**** i peeked thru my mans stuff online and seeked that he perfers nasty other stuff i'm so disgusted that i'm loosing intrest with him due to the fact thats its not the first time around.....

[sallas]

Keep it in the relationship. Role play. Provide 'porn' for your partner. Have phone sex together. Just because the idea is to have sexual ideas around a different persona doesn't mean it has to be a different person. Have fun with each other in these same ways.

[Ladyjane14]

Short answer? Everyday

 

You didn't think that rolling pin was just for making pie, did you?

:laugh: :laugh:

[Jersey Shortie]

I accept and believe I understand, given the other feelings you've shared in this thread...) And yet, based on that background, you seem to have given up hope, and I wonder why that is.

 

Because I get the same answers from men time and time again. "It's no big deal" (It is a big deal since you guys defend it hardcore), "It's just varity" (Gee Thanks! Do you want varity or do you want to be committed? Make up your mind), "Watch it with him" (Hello. Why would I want to seem it get turned on by other women. Yeah that is wonderful!)

 

It always gets brushed off because men rather downplay their need for porn then admit that it is a replacement for what they have and the replacement is 10 times better then the reality of what they have. And the fact that men just can't be loyal to their women. On the surface you pretend you are loyal but you really still seek out other women.

 

 

JS: Then turn to your partner and take it out on them sexually because you can't go boinking the other person. That is what men do isn't it?

 

Trimmer:

Is that what sex is, in your experience? Is it a battle, a fight, an account to be settled? Is that how you've been treated, sexually?

 

No. That isn't what sex is to me but I don't want to be the object that is conviently there while he gets turned on by other women. Is that so hard for men to understand? Men are always saying what is thedifference if they get turned on by something else as long as they are coming home to you. Well, call me crazy but I don't want to be the device they use to get off to ideas of someone else. So if men are continually putting themself in the spot of seeking out other women, even in a shallow form like porn, then they going to just provide themselves with more material of thinking about other women and less consideration and thinking about your women. I just don't understand why men can't be happy with what they have.

[portableversion]

IMO, porn has NO PLACE in a committed relationship. It only breeds discontent among BOTH partners. It only breeds dissatisfactioni and the 'grass is greener' syndrome in the male, so that b/c his wife won't mimic Anal Gangbang IV, he starts bitching that his 'needs aren't being met'. It also produces unrealistic expectations about sex and women. In this context, life strives to imitate art. Most porn is degrading towards women. And yes, JERSEY, THAT is how a LOT of men see women. Just eager ****-holes.

 

As to the women, it breeds nothing but insecurity and confusion about their identity and appearance. "Am I an object, or a person? I don't have plastic titties, so I'm ugly. " Which is a logical conclusion. When you see your husband wanking off to endless photos of huge tits, bleached hair and tatoos, and realize YOU don't look anything like those glorified whores, some questions arise.

 

JERSEY, NEVER has sex with a man who got it up from looking a porn or from a strip club. He should have sex with YOU because he wants to have sex WITH YOU, not b/c of some stupid porn fantasy that got him hot. IN that context, it's just assisted masturbation-let him ***kk his hand.

[Trimmer]

So Jersey, given your relatively low expectations of men as a group, I guess all I have left then is to ask if you've decided that the particular man you are with now is the best you can hope for?

[pyroguy]

Whoooaa, hold on there. I suggest you read the tread in the cheating and flirting section, where I debate the same subject with Jersey. She no longerresponded there because she no longer has an argument once I showd her how equal it really is. That, or she just refuses to believe it or acts like women's behavior is an isolated incident- IT IS NOT!!

 

frankly, I'm sick and tired of this rant from women until they mind their own behavior. Portable version, I suggest you look at the clip I included near the end of that thread, it's a real winner.

 

You see, I actually believe some of what you say, and definitely understand. You lose men with the "it's a man" thing. It may not be porn, but woman exact the same behavior when they go to strip clubs and outbehave the men. I'm sick and tired of hearing about how great this guy is or that guy is. I'm sick and tired of women wooping it up when some empty headed male star is on Oprah, and they hang on his every idiotic thought-and they are idiotic, especially the supposed political ones. I'm sick and tired of news magazine shows portraying these guys in a "of course you would ladies" way, like your man is a piece of s**** because he doesn't make believe for a living. I'm sick of romance novels and soap operas where models are CEO's at 26, and never have to be at work for some reason. Instead they are galavanting about town having sex with beautiful women.

 

generally, I'm sick of women who want their feelings validated, but not the mans. How long will it take for you to tell me it's no comparison, I shouldn't feel that way, and I'm..you got it..insecure, a word invented by women. When sex (porn) is involved it somehow is more legitimate to women than the reasons she makes her man feel bad-decided by women.

 

The fact is, your right, porn can jade people. I don't see anything wrong with liking a particular act you see there though-that's life. I'm sure the woman likes certain things sexually too. However, if she is not into that, it is no reason to seek it out outside the relationship. That woulod be a little immature.

 

Just make sure you get it straighgt that it goes both ways.

[Zato]

I think that this was a great thread and I enjoyed reading it. I have a few experiences myself in this area. All through my teens I was "addicted" to Porn. It was bad. It played a terrible role throughout my relationships. I always hid it and when they found out they were heart broken I would do that to them. I felt terrible.

 

I just think that porn in general isnt a very good thing to get involved with. When I was in my last relationship I experienced intense intimacy with her and was deeply touched by how powerful intimacy could be. From there on I devoted myself to cultivating this intimacy. Eventually she left me for various reasons, but my goal remains the same. Intimacy is everything to me.

 

I think that when people indulge in porn they are indulging in the sexual desire they harbor but are not cultivating this intimacy in their relationship. Im not saying they can't also cultivate intimacy with their spouse at the same time but hear me out.

 

I feel throughout my life that I am meant to be with and devote my entire self - body, heart and soul to another human. Who ever she may be. I want to devote every aspect of myself to her including my sexual desires. I want every single part of my mind completely interconnnected to hers. Sounds a but much, but that is how I feel. And chances are I wont find this person whom I can achieve this with but I cant stop hoping.

 

So after I have realized exactly what I want in my life- I would look at porn and see how non-intimate is was and it would make me feel disgusted. I know everyone is different and it seems like jersey feels very similar to how I feel. Although I am single. Its ok though.

 

I think I may believe this because I was brought up to believe in "true love" or w/e. I have been losing my faith in its existence but I am holding on to it. I have many morals and values and I will remain true to myself. (I am not religious)

 

Hope someone may have something neat to comment on.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think that when people indulge in porn they are indulging in the sexual desire they harbor but are not cultivating this intimacy in their relationship.

Why are those two things mutually exclusive? Aren't there instances where a healthy (non-addictive) interest in sexual material (by either partner) could add some sizzle to an intimate relationship?

 

Also, if I masterbate, aren't I "indulging in the sexual desire (I) harbor"? Am I then guilty of "not cultivating this intimacy in (my) relationship?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Zato]

Aren't there instances where a healthy (non-addictive) interest in sexual material (by either partner) could add some sizzle to an intimate relationship?

 

I believe this is completely based on the beholders moral standards. Considering the moral standards or your partner also, of course. I know I didn't elaborate as much as I should have. My apologies.

 

Also, if I masterbate, aren't I "indulging in the sexual desire (I) harbor"?

 

Yes you are. I would hope so.

 

Am I then guilty of "not cultivating this intimacy in (my) relationship?

 

Well, I think so. Your relationship consist of you "and your partner". When you indulge in only "your" sexual fantasies without the inclusion of your partner, your partner may be missing out.

 

Realize I am no expert in this area, but I am just trying to figure out what I think about all this too. I just see Porn as sex without intimacy. Its sex only for the physical feeling. I view sex as something a bit more sacred than that. I think I have been brought up to think this, but whether or not that is true is up to debate. I think sex should be extremely intimate and beautiful between you and your partner. Involving Porn (considering how I view it for a moment) seems to only take away from this intimacy.

 

I suppose that if you and your partner have a complete different view on Porn and neither of you feel this way at all about intimacy then it should not be a problem.

 

Let me know whatchya think.

[norajane]

Your relationship consist of you "and your partner". When you indulge in only "your" sexual fantasies without the inclusion of your partner, your partner may be missing out.

 

 

Even in a relationship, each individual is entitled to their own fantasies!!!

 

We don't give up our individuality when we enter into a relationship. We come together and form a third entitly - the couple - but we still retain our individuality. We have the right to our own thoughts!

[Mr. Lucky]

We don't give up our individuality when we enter into a relationship. We come together and form a third entitly - the couple - but we still retain our individuality. We have the right to our own thoughts!

And our own actions within the context of the relationship. While not a carte blanche to use and abuse, I still have my own wants, needs and desires. Would I make every effort to satisfy those with my wife (and hers with me)? Heck, yeah! On the occasion when that option is denied me, I don't think my "partner may be missing out" if I take things into my own hands.

 

Mr. Lucky

[Zato]

 

Even in a relationship, each individual is entitled to their own fantasies!!!

 

We don't give up our individuality when we enter into a relationship. We come together and form a third entitly - the couple - but we still retain our individuality. We have the right to our own thoughts!

 

I agree, but only to a certain point. I agree our individuality is essential and must remain with us always. You do have the right to your own thoughts. But I think some forms of thinking are unacceptable. If I were in a relationship and having sex with my lover would it be acceptable to think about a Porn Star while we were ****ing? I don't think that is acceptable. This just goes to show that some forms of thinking are not acceptable in the relationship setting.

 

Why is this not acceptable? Because it is impure. And I think this discussion is about how or to what level of mental and sexual purity you strive to accomplish in your own personal life. Sorry if I have lost anyone on this. Its a very complex thing to speak about. Please also remember this is only my personal opinion on this topic.

 

 

And our own actions within the context of the relationship. While not a carte blanche to use and abuse, I still have my own wants, needs and desires. Would I make every effort to satisfy those with my wife (and hers with me)? Heck, yeah! On the occasion when that option is denied me, I don't think my "partner may be missing out" if I take things into my own hands.

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

I agree that you are also entitled to your own actions within the relationship. But it is important (like Mr. Lucky has stated) that certain actions are not acceptable. Certain actions would be considered abuse with in the realm or a serious relationship.

 

If you feel that your wife is not interested at the moment (hypothetically speaking), then you are definintely welcome to help yourself out in that situation. ^^ I don't think there is anything wrong with masturbation. Nothing at all.

 

The part that makes it wrong for me is all up here. (Points to head) It depends on "what" your fantasizing about and why. I personally only want my wife to be the only object of lust in my heart. I strive for intimacy as pure as possible. Whether or not I can find something like this, I have no idea.

 

Im sure some people may find my views "too" idealistic and what not but this is me and I will stay true to myself.

 

Zach.

[rainfall]

And our own actions within the context of the relationship. While not a carte blanche to use and abuse, I still have my own wants, needs and desires. Would I make every effort to satisfy those with my wife (and hers with me)? Heck, yeah! On the occasion when that option is denied me, I don't think my "partner may be missing out" if I take things into my own hands.

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

When your wants, needs, and desires start to cause your SO pain why should you even want to continue them?

[Pink_Tulip]

Zato- I agree with much of what you say. I think there is a greater purpose for sex and intimacy in a marriage, and many people don't even realize what they are missing while they have porn in it.

 

My husband and I have your 'idealistic' marriage, and are quite happy with it. You will find many women who are looking for a man like you, trust me. As long as you stick your beliefs, you will find someone.

[Zato]

Zato- I agree with much of what you say. I think there is a greater purpose for sex and intimacy in a marriage, and many people don't even realize what they are missing while they have porn in it.

 

My husband and I have your 'idealistic' marriage, and are quite happy with it. You will find many women who are looking for a man like you, trust me. As long as you stick your beliefs, you will find someone.

 

You don't know how good it is to hear someone say that. I really appreciate it and I really hope someday I can find that ideal marriage.

 

<3 - Zach.

[rainfall]

Zato- I agree with much of what you say. I think there is a greater purpose for sex and intimacy in a marriage, and many people don't even realize what they are missing while they have porn in it.

 

My husband and I have your 'idealistic' marriage, and are quite happy with it. You will find many women who are looking for a man like you, trust me. As long as you stick your beliefs, you will find someone.

 

I agree with this. Many women would love to have a guy like you.

[Mr. Lucky]

When your wants, needs, and desires start to cause your SO pain why should you even want to continue them?

Not the main point. Individual sexuality is wonderfully quirky, unique, dynamic, mysterious and experimental. Loveshack is full of unhappy posts from those whose SO's place arbitrary limts on sexual expression (both individually and combined) within a relationship. What if oral sex caused my SO "pain". Or sex more than 2X a month? Or sex in anything other than the missionary position? Within the bounds of monagamy and good taste (as it apllies to sexual activity and porn ), you should encourage you partner to explore his or her sexuality - it will only benefit you in the long run.

 

Again, the question you should ask youself is "Why am I threatened by that?"

 

Mr. Lucky

[Zato]

Not the main point. Individual sexuality is wonderfully quirky, unique, dynamic, mysterious and experimental. Loveshack is full of unhappy posts from those whose SO's place arbitrary limts on sexual expression (both individually and combined) within a relationship. What if oral sex caused my SO "pain". Or sex more than 2X a month? Or sex in anything other than the missionary position? Within the bounds of monagamy and good taste (as it apllies to sexual activity and porn ), you should encourage you partner to explore his or her sexuality - it will only benefit you in the long run.

 

I think we simply have a difference of opinion. There probably isnt more to it than that.

 

Again, the question you should ask youself is "Why am I threatened by that?"

 

For me... Its all about purity of your heart. And I am threatened because it would create a sense of lesser purity. Thats all there is to it (within my realm of opinion).

[Mr. Lucky]

I think we simply have a difference of opinion. There probably isnt more to it than that.

I agree. And I certainly respect your right to have and express yours and to live your life based on your own priorities.

Is this a great country, or what?

 

Mr. Lucky