What is cognitive therapy?

[KittenMoon]

Or what is your perception of it?

 

Do you think it actually works?

 

 

Kinda random, I know, but I was just reading a bit about it and thought it might make a good discussion. I can't quite decide if it's a good tool, or utter BS, or if it's success is spotty at best and perhaps intrinsically tied to the individual (meaning it might intrinsically work better for some people because of certain behavioral or even genetic dispositions).

[laRubiaBonita]

it is all based on how well the person does with the therapy. alot of it is changing the way one reacts to certain triggers, changing thoughts and actions.

therefore if a person is not willing to let go of there "sick" behaviors in exchange for "healthier" ones.... CT is really not all that effective.

 

i found it to be a really good tool. and even knowing some other ways to respond to something is useful... not that you always use the "good way".

[KittenMoon]

therefore if a person is not willing to let go of there "sick" behaviors in exchange for "healthier" ones.... CT is really not all that effective.

 

I guess my thoughts about cognitive therapy amount to the above, specifically "how". There are some people who, even after recognizing a negative behavior, can't change it. Even if they want to.

 

And that's why if I wonder if there's something intrinsic at work for those who can sucessfully change...

[laRubiaBonita]

I guess my thoughts about cognitive therapy amount to the above, specifically "how". There are some people who, even after recognizing a negative behavior, can't change it. Even if they want to.

 

And that's why if I wonder if there's something intrinsic at work for those who can sucessfully change...

 

it's practice. in a controled environment encountering the problem and dealing with it with the new behaviours. eventually you (hopefully)opt to use the better way of dealing and with practice one gets used to using the techniques.

[alphamale]

our resident expert on CBT is WWIU....I will refer you to her. (oh yea tell her i referred you so I can get my finders fee)

[KittenMoon]

it's practice. in a controled environment encountering the problem and dealing with it with the new behaviours. eventually you (hopefully)opt to use the better way of dealing and with practice one gets used to using the techniques.

 

The whole idea just seems vague to me- anything from talking to Pavlov's experiments to could be considered cognitive therapy (IMO). I suppose that's why I'm curious to hear more people's thoughts on it.

[IpAncA]

Don't let anyone tell you that Cognitive Therapy doesn't work because it does for some people. It's used to treat things like depression, bipolar, phobias, and other mental disorders. It just deals with changing negative and destructive ways of thinking, behaviors, and emotions.

 

Also when looking thru experiments you have to recognize that its just an experiement and that what they find may not be right or wrong.

[alphamale]

It's used to treat things like depression, bipolar, phobias, and other mental disorders. It just deals with changing negative and destructive ways of thinking, behaviors, and emotions..

um, yeah IPANCA....you can't treat clinical depression and bipolar disorder with CBT. Both of these are medical disorders, not unlike Parkinsons or Hemophilia. Please don't disemminate false facts.

[IpAncA]

Sorry that you disagree. It may be a medical disorder but that type of therapy is ALSO use for some people and it has been proven thru research that it works. You can't just give someone meds and hope that they get better. They have to be in some sort of therapy too. Look it up.

[KittenMoon]

Alright, I'm gonna try to swing this around a bit, but I don't know if I'll be able to convey this correctly.

 

I guess I'm sitting here thinking why cognitive therapy works on some people and not others. I have a friend who's been through medications galore, therapy to the moon and back, etc etc, yet she still suffers depression and mood swings. Yet she's confident, very smart, ambitious and successful- so it make me wonder why something like cognitive therapy doesn't seem to make a dent when she's going through bad patches. She may be an extreme example (she's been diagnosed with treatment resistent depression), but there are even smaller examples.

 

Like how I'm terrified of flying, even though I know the statistics, I know how many flights are in the air on any given day, I know how planes work, etc. And yet no matter how much I work my mind up to accept these things, I still have anxiety attacks when I fly.

 

There's a little part of me that whispers that cognitive therapy only works on people who believe it works just because they are told it does, people who maybe aren't the type to question techniques and methods. Kinda like the way most people won't question the mechanic when they get a tune-up or oil change... they basically act on "faith" the mechanic will get it right and not screw up a potentially dangerous piece of machinery.

 

So basically, I wonder if the success of cognitive therapy rests less on the treatment itself and more on inherent qualities of the person being treated, such as whether or not they accept the treatment without question (possible causing the treatment to catch), or if their mind sees holes in it (possible causing it to be less successful).

[laRubiaBonita]

I guess I'm sitting here thinking why cognitive therapy works on some people and not others. I

So basically, I wonder if the success of cognitive therapy rests less on the treatment itself and more on inherent qualities of the person being treated, such as whether or not they accept the treatment without question (possible causing the treatment to catch), or if their mind sees holes in it (possible causing it to be less successful).

 

 

ANY form of theraputic success is based upon the individual.... be it physical therapy, psycho therapy, occupational therapy, etc.....

[KittenMoon]

ANY form of theraputic success is based upon the individual.... be it physical therapy, psycho therapy, occupational therapy, etc.....

 

It just makes me really wonder "why". Like it the "whys" were more readily identifiable (behavioral, genetic, mental, etc), could things be treated faster and more successfully.

 

Somedays I wish I had gone into psychiatry instead of graphics...

[dgiirl]

A person who keeps ripping off a bandage that's being used to keep him from bleeding to death, is going to bleed to death. The bandage can only do so much, but if the person wont leave it alone, it wont work.

 

Just the same with any type of therapy or medication. They all need the participation of the patient. Yes, they might show up for their appointments, fill our their drug perscriptions, take the bottle home, and put it on the fridge, but unless they remember to take it at the critical times, it's not going to do anything.

 

And I dont think one can cure depression to the point that it never returns. Therapy is a tool to be used when you go through depressing episodes, to make it easier to get through, not something to prevent the episodes from ever happening.

[KittenMoon]

A person who keeps ripping off a bandage that's being used to keep him from bleeding to death, is going to bleed to death. The bandage can only do so much, but if the person wont leave it alone, it wont work.

 

Just the same with any type of therapy or medication. They all need the participation of the patient. Yes, they might show up for their appointments, fill our their drug perscriptions, take the bottle home, and put it on the fridge, but unless they remember to take it at the critical times, it's not going to do anything.

 

So what about patients who truly want to change whatever they're trying to change, and try hard, without results? In theory, those who want to work hard and do shoudl be able to change- yet plenty seemingly cannot. And not just on things like depression- but fears and habits, etc etc.

 

Or are there things that we simply cannot change about ourselves- maybe certain things can just are or become so hard wired in a persons' brain, change isn't possible. And if so, why one persons brain and not another, why one habit/fear/illness and not another?

[Guest]

I have a friend who's been through medications galore, therapy to the moon and back, etc etc, yet she still suffers depression and mood swings. Yet she's confident, very smart, ambitious and successful- so it make me wonder why something like cognitive therapy doesn't seem to make a dent when she's going through bad patches. She may be an extreme example (she's been diagnosed with treatment resistent depression), but there are even smaller examples.

 

Depression is an imbalance of serotonin. Serotonin levels can be affected by many things; food, meds - even day-to-day relations. But the body has to make and use serotonin efficiently. Each human body will react differently; some may be more able to produce serotonin because of communicating and cooperating with others, other bodies need a more physiological remedy (meds).

 

Like how I'm terrified of flying, even though I know the statistics, I know how many flights are in the air on any given day, I know how planes work, etc. And yet no matter how much I work my mind up to accept these things, I still have anxiety attacks when I fly.

 

Yes, but cognitive therapy isn't just about knowing things. It's about learning through experiencing things. Phobias are cured (amazingly rapidly! - they're one of the most curable conditions) when the phobic person learns that the fear she has about the fear-inducing experience is a fear of fear. When the phobic person is gradually introduced to minute quantities of the fear-inducing experience, she finds out that the consequences she fears don't occur.

 

I watched a documentary about this - saw a woman who was petrified of spiders learn, over the course of a few days, to not only stop being afraid of them but to pick them up and interact with them fearlessly.

 

There's a little part of me that whispers that cognitive therapy only works on people who believe it works just because they are told it does, people who maybe aren't the type to question techniques and methods.

 

Actually, it works only on people who try the things they're told to try and learn for themselves that they can be successful. You see it on LS sometimes - people are encouraged to face whatever demons they might have. They do so, and lose their fear. Same goes for other feelings.

 

So basically, I wonder if the success of cognitive therapy rests less on the treatment itself and more on inherent qualities of the person being treated, such as whether or not they accept the treatment without question (possible causing the treatment to catch), or if their mind sees holes in it (possible causing it to be less successful).

 

It obviously won't work for someone who decides that the therapist is full of bull and that they know better than the therapist. That's why some personality disorders are very hard to treat - part of the disorder is resistance to suggestions/advice, etc. You do have to go to therapy with at least a willingness to try the therapist's suggestions and see if they work. However if you go utterly convinced they won't work and refuse to try them, of course it won't work.

 

But the other issue is the state of your neurotransmitters. As you've noted, cognitive therapy can't work in all cases; some unfortunate people with very serious cases of depression need more drastic interventions.

[dgiirl]

I believe they cant because they are still getting something from holding onto their fears or habits. There's a sense of comfortness in what we know. They havent reached an ah-ha moment where letting go outweights holding on.

 

And dont mistake therapy like a magic wand. It wont make life all peachy, but it will help you cope with the situation. A guy who broke his leg is not going to be able to pop a pill and then walk around like nothings wrong (not yet atleast). He'll still need crutches until he starts to heal. And once he's healed, he might break his leg again tomorrow. Stuff happens.

 

I have my own set of habits and fears. I'm human. But I do believe, if I truely wanted it, they could all be overcome. But I'm getting something out of it, by either avoiding facing it, or by changing my habits.

[alphamale]

I refer you to my old thread below "Is counseling/therapy a panacea?"

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t56352/

[whichwayisup]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t69515/

 

Is a helpful thread as well.

 

I'll reply more about my own experiences with CBT later on.

[alphamale]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t69515/

 

Is a helpful thread as well.

 

I'll reply more about my own experiences with CBT later on.

hah ha ha a ha WWIU, now we will have this debate again concerning effectiveness of "talk therapy" ha ha h ah ha

[KittenMoon]

I'd personally like to see greater research given to brain chemicals. We all hear the serotonin thing, and not that I don't agree with it, but it's a bit like shutting the barn after the horse has gotten out. I think a lot of things can be traced back to how people fear change and crave familiarity. Wouldn't it be interesting to see a medication developed that treats the brain chemicals associated with this? Or maybe a medication that mimics the brain chemicals that exist in people who deal healthily with change- it may be that they have a leg up on other because of their brain chemistry.

 

I don't know- just musing on this. The brain is an interesting thing.

[KittenMoon]

hah ha ha a ha WWIU, now we will have this debate again concerning effectiveness of "talk therapy" ha ha h ah ha

 

Bah- no debates. Discussion. Two different things. It's pointless to look for solid answers in an area that has very, very few.

[alphamale]

I'd personally like to see greater research given to brain chemicals.

the brian runs on chemicals and hormones and electrical impulses. everyones thoughts, memories and emotions are caused by these things...

[whichwayisup]

hah ha ha a ha WWIU, now we will have this debate again concerning effectiveness of "talk therapy" ha ha h ah ha

My train of thought is this...What you put into therapy is what you get out of it.

[KittenMoon]

the brian runs on chemicals and hormones and electrical impulses. everyones thoughts, memories and emotions are caused by these things...

 

But there's gotta be some common threads to everyone- the whole serotinin-depression link proves this.

[laRubiaBonita]

I'd personally like to see greater research given to brain chemicals. We all hear the serotonin thing, and not that I don't agree with it, but it's a bit like shutting the barn after the horse has gotten out. I think a lot of things can be traced back to how people fear change and crave familiarity. Wouldn't it be interesting to see a medication developed that treats the brain chemicals associated with this? Or maybe a medication that mimics the brain chemicals that exist in people who deal healthily with change- it may be that they have a leg up on other because of their brain chemistry.

 

I don't know- just musing on this. The brain is an interesting thing.

 

one must look at the individuals background. Did their parents teach them how to deal with fears or did they recreate their own fears in their kids? did the parents deal with changes well? how did it affect their kids?

 

i cannot tell you how many swim students i have that are scared of the water.... and why? because their parents are scared of the water.

 

children mimik their parents and will mirror the parents fears because they are "taught" it is what is right.