yes, it does happen - MM is separating

[pricillia]

Isn't this what you should do before moving in/marrying? Know the exact financial status of your partner, as well as projected financial status? To me, this is common sense. I've never been married, but from what I hear, this is 80% of what couple's fight about.

 

 

 

 

Why is it so difficult to imagine an amicable parting? She didn't say it joyously, but as a sad admission as to why the marriage is over. She sadly admitted many other things as well. Just as MM also sadly admitted certain things.

 

When there is no acrimony, and two people are honest with each other...they can admit these things. Neither of them were small and petty in this parting.

 

I think this is another reason why the son will be ok - it's not the divorce itself that hurts the child, but how the divorce and post-divorce life is handled.

 

And so far, everyone is being calm, mature and understanding.

 

being a child of divorce, I wish this is the way it was for me and my sister... we were often put in the middle ( by one parent only ) and the reason for divorce was different than this but none the less it was not a calm divorce, I wish you the best.

[BUTAFLY]

I'm not going to hate on you yesmaybe.

Sometimes the heart leads you to where it suppose to be. Yes its not an Ideal way to end up with a partner but it happens. It happened to my ex. He married his OW and the last I heard they are still happily married, going on year #2. (it irritates the hell out of me- but hey what canyado?)

 

and for those who think 13 is young and innocent. My ex's ow(now wife) had her first child at age 13. 13 aint what it use to be...these kids are much more mature & savy these days. Have you been to a high school lately...these kids look like adults. Must be all the hormons in Tyson chicken?

 

So... good luck and for your sake I hope it works out

[Touche]

Damn! I'm going to start buying those free-range chickens!

 

To the OP. Look, I don't wish you any ill-will but as Buta mentioned it's certainly not the best way to start a relationship. You yourself said that you know the odds are against you.

 

I hope it works out for everyone involved though.

[Joelle]

Good Luck, Yesmaybe. I hope everything works out for you.

 

Just be careful. I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but to me, your OM may be having a mid-life crisis. He may not be stable. Protect yourself (and your heart).

[BenThereDunThat]

Courage? Sure...But real courage would have been him divorcing his wife BEFORE he decided to have an affair. Any problems that were going on in the marriage either got worse or didn't matter anymore as soon as he decided to cheat on his wife. Any inclination of fixing his marriage or putting the effort in was gone the minute he chose to have an affair...That's not courage, that's the easy way out. Sorry...

 

Though it is good that he has actually MADE a decision now and isn't leading on two women.

 

That's all I've been saying. Of course it would have been more courageous to end the marriage before. In a perfect world....

 

Yesmaybe - I too wish you the best of luck.

[Ladyjane14]

Once we have a house, next step will be building a relationship with his son. I'm sure I will be back in a few months with an update!

 

What you've already done to that boy is bad enough. "Building a relationship" with him, for the sake of normalizing your adultery with his father is just adding insult to injury.

 

I know you don't want to hear this. You're young... and quite frankly naive IMO. But the only real lesson that you and this boy's father have managed to teach him is that a man's word is NOT necessarily his bond.

 

THAT's the tragedy in this whole situation. One more young mind led astray from personal integrity. One more impressionable youth sold a Hollywood bill of goods about how romantic gratification superceeds honor.

 

One day he'll be a man. And he'll look upon his own bride with all his hopes for the future in his eyes. In time and Lord willing, he'll hold his own newborn child in his arms. Then... he'll know his father's sins for what they are.

 

Both you and his father do him a disservice if he's not jarred by that knowledge when it comes, and thus determined to do better by his own family. Normalizing the concept of abandoning your family dynamic is detrimental to him in the future if the child 'buys in'.

 

Hopefully, his mother won't let that happen... but there's no reason in the world that you and your boyfriend should put the extra burden on her. I really do think you two have caused her enough grief already. Confusing her child, and attempting to reset his moral compass by normalizing adultery is beyond the pale.

 

I'm confounded by the common 'politically correct' mindset that a child "NEEDS" both parents... when sometimes it seems so evident that one of them comes to the parenting relationship with emotionally empty pockets. What on earth could this boy gain from his father at this point that's worth having? Sure, he can 'send money' but otherwise his influence is corrupt.

 

Truth is... the parent needs the child. The child winds up with the fuzzy end of the lollipop, never having been taught to deal with adversity in relationships. As a society, we end up with more and more self-serving people.

 

The nicest thing you and your boyfriend could do for this kid is to NOT rationalize or justify your behavior. But neither of you will ever subscribe to that... because at the heart of it all, you both prioritize yourselves ahead of him. Your track record thus far proves it.

 

I could wish you luck... but it wouldn't do you any good and really, I wouldn't mean it. You're young, true enough. But not so young that you don't deserve your fate. Lying and cheating reap their own rewards.

[Ladyjane14]

He married his OW and the last I heard they are still happily married, going on year #2. (it irritates the hell out of me- but hey what canyado?)

 

You could always hold yer nose and f*ck him a couple of times... You know, just to prove you can if you want to. :lmao:

[GreenEyedLady]

LJ: I am appalled that you would say that a child doesn't need both his parents: of course they do...there is more damage done when a child is abandoned by a parent than by the death of the parent...I myself am D and I don't agree with my exh lifestyle at all, but that is MY problem not my children's...they deserve to have a R with both parents if that is a possibility...and the courts agree with that...

[Ladyjane14]

LJ: I am appalled that you would say that a child doesn't need both his parents: of course they do...

 

Why???

 

To tell the truth, I've been pondering alot on that particular question lately. I think perhaps the courts do us a disservice sociatally in upholding poor parenting models.

 

I happened to catch a Dr. Phil episode the other day where a little girl (a baby really), was hysterically crying while being dragged away from her mother. It was her biological father's weekend for visitation and his new wife was doing the pick up. 'New wife' might have just been doing her job, albeit with relish perhaps .... but overall it ended up being a REALLY heartwrenching, pitiful scene.

 

Kids just shouldn't have to be put through all that.

Neither the father nor the new wife seemed to be able to see that they were traumatizing the child. Of course, there were allegations of sexual abuse in this particular story, and at one point the baby had been returned to her mother with a torn labia. So, it's possible that the emotional trauma had more cause than simple separation anxiety, but that story aside.... why would any rational person put a kid into a situation in which they were no longer emotionally secure?

 

Anyway, it started me thinking. And the thought has stayed with me that "joint custody" might be something that's NOT particularly essential to child development, despite what we've been lead to believe by the liberal court system.

 

In the above situation, what that baby obviously needed was security and stability. But in the OP's case, the child is in need of moral guidance IMO, and that's something I don't believe he'll get from the example he's being forcebly exposed to.

 

"Morality" is NOT a dirty word. It's what separates sentient beings from the animal world. Animals, even preditorial ones... do not commit evil. Rather, they do as nature instructs them. Man, on the other hand, can subvert natural instinct by virtue of premeditation. With that power comes responsibility. Adhering to the edicts of right and wrong allows us to rise to the occasion of that responsibility.

 

I don't understand why adults who KNOW they are doing wrong, try to minimize the importance of adhering to morality.... all the while claiming to have the kid's best interest at heart. Why tell the young ones that cheating and lying are WRONG... and then set active examples to them that negate the words?

 

Either cheating and lying are ALWAYS wrong... or they're not. The gray area is confusing to children. And in some respects, I think we're seeing too many kids growing up with this blurring of the lines. It makes me anxious for the future of humanity. Because those children grow into adults who perpetuate the 'grayness'.

 

Anyway... I'm still mulling it all over, but I'm unconvinced that the way we 'do business' in the court system is really the best way to be doing it. I'm wondering if perhaps the wiser course might be for the one who destroys the family dynamic... to "own" their junk.

 

There are those who might acuse me of the old standby, "bitterness". But in actuality, I've no cause to be bitter in my own situation which has worked out nicely. And as far as the OP's sitch.... I think the wife is the clear winner. She's freed of a duplitous man, and even though she may be presently grief-stricken... her future is brighter for having lost the roughly 200 pounds of dead weight. I've seen too may elderly folks struggling to think that being bound to a selfish partner is a good thing.

[FlyingHigh]

"Morality" is NOT a dirty word. It's what separates sentient beings from the animal world. Animals, even preditorial ones... do not commit evil. Rather, they do as nature instructs them. Man, on the other hand, can subvert natural instinct by virtue of premeditation. With that power comes responsibility. Adhering to the edicts of right and wrong allows us to rise to the occasion of that responsibility.

 

I don't understand why adults who KNOW they are doing wrong, try to minimize the importance of adhering to morality.... all the while claiming to have the kid's best interest at heart. Why tell the young ones that cheating and lying are WRONG... and then set active examples to them that negate the words?

 

LJ,

 

I'm in agreement with you on all bases.

 

Cheaters posess the strong sense of entitlement. Therefore, they rarely consider the impact of their conscious decisions to cheat to those who should matter most. They rarely take responsibility for their actions. Certainly they thought about how "wrong" it was when they did it the first time, but only for a flash bulb moment. Rather than correct the wrongness of their decisions, they rationalize their adulterous behavior to be that of genuine love.

 

But how can one find genuine happiness and love at the expense of someone else's sorrow, the betrayed spouse and abandoned children? Cheaters don't think this way because it's all about them in the moment. A person with a consciensce would have chosen the "right" decision to NOT engage in an affair. And then they rationalize again with..."well, I'm not perfect". True, but God has equipped each and everyone of us the "basic" skills of what is right and wrong and what is moral and immoral. The OP and the BF "knew" the basics from the get go that one of them was "married".

 

Life is like a boomerang. Neither the OP and her BF have begun to learn the life lesson their affair created, the havoc it left behind. But rather, have once again demonstrated their self absorption, celebrating their coming together and finalizing their prenup. That's just amazing....considering that the BF didn't have the balls to divorce or leave his wife first before he started to cheat with this OP. That's some swell guy to be proud of.

 

What lesson is there for BF's child to learn? That cheating and lying on the child's mother is normal? This is the lesson they have so far taught this child! Children learn by examples! They should be ashamed of themselves!!

 

By the way OP, what do you tell your friends and family when they ask you how you met your BF?

 

1. I was his other woman?

2. He was cheating with me while he was still married to his wife?

3. I was doing him while he was married?

4. We were doing each other while he was married?

 

Not a very stellar image for an intelligent person...is it?

 

But hey, to each its own....now you will have to live your life wondering if he'll cheat on you, too. For that, I wish you luck

[Chapter2]

Yesmaybe, I commend you. You have shown nothing but class on this thread and have managed to keep yourself out of the sewer where so many of these bitter posters seem to be.

 

Some of these posters are so angry and so bitter that they cannot help but spew their poison and venom onto everyone around them. They have shown themselves to be classless, tacky and immature and I'm so glad to see you've made the choice not to stoop to their level. I can imagine its tempting to put them in their place as I know I would be tempted to do so myself.

 

Its interesting that some of the very people tearing you down now have recommended the very same steps you have taken in other threads.

 

Thanks for posting and sharing your story. Please know that while I still don't agree with affairs and wish I had never been involved in one, I have not a single stone to cast your way. I wish you the very best of luck and hope that you keep us posted.

[travellingman]

My usually-stoic MM cried in front of me because he felt like a total SOB, hurting her and his son. Many people like to villify MM - but my MM, while weak and selfish, does have a heart.

 

If this whole story is true, he seems way too indecisive, and you're celebrating prematurely.

[FlyingHigh]

Yesmaybe, I commend you. You have shown nothing but class on this thread and have managed to keep yourself out of the sewer where so many of these bitter posters seem to be.

 

Some of these posters are so angry and so bitter that they cannot help but spew their poison and venom onto everyone around them. They have shown themselves to be classless, tacky and immature and I'm so glad to see you've made the choice not to stoop to their level. I can imagine its tempting to put them in their place as I know I would be tempted to do so myself.

 

Its interesting that some of the very people tearing you down now have recommended the very same steps you have taken in other threads.

 

Thanks for posting and sharing your story. Please know that while I still don't agree with affairs and wish I had never been involved in one, I have not a single stone to cast your way. I wish you the very best of luck and hope that you keep us posted.

 

You are posting on a public forum. Expect to receive personal feedback that are honest and raw with emotions, some more intense than others. So if a poster is too sensitive to such feedbacks, they always have the option to not post or lurk. It's as much an option to whether or not get involve in an affair or cheat.

 

They have shown themselves to be classless, tacky and immature and I'm so glad to see you've made the choice not to stoop to their level. I can imagine its tempting to put them in their place as I know I would be tempted to do so myself.

And I suppose cheating and lying is very mature and classy......very nice.

 

I have not a single stone to cast your way.

You just did...with this quote:

Some of these posters are so angry and so bitter that they cannot help but spew their poison and venom onto everyone around them. They have shown themselves to be classless, tacky and immature and I'm so glad to see you've made the choice not to stoop to their level. I can imagine its tempting to put them in their place as I know I would be tempted to do so myself.

 

You have just cast the first stone against those who have merely expressed their honest feedback. What this shows is that since you yourself have cheated, honesty is probably what strikes you the most. After all, there is nothing admirably honest about cheating and lying, is there?

[grateful]

Wow, this thread, just wow.....

 

I don't know how many OWs on here would remember, but I started a thread that got deleted and created quite a ruckus because I asked the OWs, "do you feel responsible?" I was labelled an "attacker" and worse and so have stayed out of here. OW who remember would not expect me to come in to the defense.

 

But... some of the responses? I don't know - it's like you can't win for losing. I mean everyone tells the OW to get out of the affair, that if the man loved her he'd leave to be with her, and when it happens the advice is still: well you were selfish and deceitful so even if he left for you and now you are being honest you are still wrong...

this just makes no sense.

 

People make mistakes. Cheating is an egregious one. But when yesmaybe and her affair partner move out of the affair through divorce - - I just don't see why all the criticism now. Particularly of the "the father shouldn't see the child" kind. What is that all about? If he left his W and refused to see his child you'd be yelling - - "what a jerk...run off with his OW and ignore the child and leave all the parenting work to his exW."

 

Truth of the matter, yesmaybe and MM have done wrong, albeit a huge, mean, deceitful wrong; but they are trying to come out of it as best they can for all parties. The affair can't be undone -- why is it helpful to fling attacks now? They've done all that most on here counsel them to do in order to get out of a bad situation.

 

To LJ, your position against joint custody is really disheartening.

 

 

 

Anyway, it started me thinking. And the thought has stayed with me that "joint custody" might be something that's NOT particularly essential to child development, despite what we've been lead to believe by the liberal court system.

 

In the above situation, what that baby obviously needed was security and stability. But in the OP's case, the child is in need of moral guidance IMO, and that's something I don't believe he'll get from the example he's being forcebly exposed to.

 

 

You are suggesting that our court system, as flawed as it is, would be able to legislate morality? I can't even imagine what would happen. What other grounds would cause no visitation: what if one parent were to convince the judge that the other were too emotionally detached? what about religious differences (assuming the judge shares religion with one parent and not the other)? How would this ball of wax unfold?

 

 

 

Anyway... I'm still mulling it all over, but I'm unconvinced that the way we 'do business' in the court system is really the best way to be doing it. I'm wondering if perhaps the wiser course might be for the one who destroys the family dynamic... to "own" their junk.

 

 

If yesmaybe's MM is a good father and teaches his child that when people make mistakes (even huge ones) they own up to them and make amends to the wronged parties (taking financial care of his exW) and try to build amicable conditions despite the guilt, and shame, and other emotional consequences rather than turn tail and run (as your suggestion of avoiding parenting responsibilities aside from financial ones implies) - - then who is the court to say that a cheater will always be a bad influence on a child?

 

Should we just give yesmaybe and MM a scarlett A to wear on their clothing and call it a day?

 

My advice to you is to turn off Dr. Phil.

[Adunaphel]

yesmaybe,

 

now that he is separated, ask yourself seriously: do you *really* want him?

 

(knowing him, considered the aga difference, considered a lot of things that you might not have considered when he was no relationship material - i.e. married - anyway )

 

If the answer is yes, I wish you luck.

 

But please ask yourself that question.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

YesMaybe,

 

I am really, really thrilled for you that your MM is finally putting his foot down and building his life with you.

 

Thank you for sharing.

 

I think that most posters here are mean spirited and callous. You DO NOT need to defend yourself to these people! (Unless, that's what you want to do.)

 

Who do these people think they are anyway? Who can tell us what the future holds for any of us???? In fact, how many of these *cynical* posters who bashed you have a romantic relationship with their SO? (I'll bet it's less than 5%.)

 

I think that you were brave and smart. You held out.. and you finally got what you've been fighting for. So good for you.

 

Being in a state of love and passion is difficult... And making it last will be even more so. But having experienced it once - even for a brief moment - is something that is priceless. And how many of us can say that we truly love our SO?

 

Enjoy what you have. I wish I have what you've got.

[Touche]

I wish I have what you've got

 

You wish you had someone else's man?

 

Oh by the way, I'm in a succesful marriage for over 11 years now. And he was single when I met him.

 

and you finally got what you've been fighting for.

 

That quote stands by itself..no comment. Carry on...

[Freedom Now]

Whether yesmaybe wants him now or in the future is inconsequential. The marriage is OVER. Now, the poster and the MM will be another couple who will brave the odds like any other couple.

 

Will they survive? Who knows? But her MM is taking the risk to leave his marriage. He should be well aware that his relationship with yesmaybe may or may not last.

 

And I would imagine that he has thought that through and realized that being alone, perhaps, is better than living a lie in his marriage. Hence, his separation and imminent divorce.

 

There are no guarantees in life, and I am quite certain that through therapy, these two people realize that.

 

At least he is not living a lie any longer. And that is much better than dragging his family through the mess that other MM do when they don't make a decision and stick with it.

 

Because, let's face it: these boards are littered with MM "deciding" to stay in their marriages, but refusing to "give up" the OW. (And all of this is done behind the BS's back). My story went exactly this way. Until I stopped him. And, my story isn't so rare. It happens. They still contact us.

 

This man made his decision. That is much more than most MM do.

 

Ever.

[FlyingHigh]

Whether yesmaybe wants him now or in the future is inconsequential. The marriage is OVER. Now, the poster and the MM will be another couple who will brave the odds like any other couple.

 

Will they survive? Who knows? But her MM is taking the risk to leave his marriage.

He also risked losing his first marriage with this affair. And he did.

 

There are no guarantees in life, and I am quite certain that through therapy, these two people realize that.

While there may be no guarantees in life, the choices we make, however, paves the way to a most or certain "guaranteed" outcome. Such remarks "no guarantees in life" is so overused because it deflects taking responsibilities for the choices one makes.

[Freedom Now]

What is the most or certain "guaranteed" outcome for this situation? Neither you nor I know that.

 

Life is life. We are where we are today because of the decisions we made in the past. We are all responsible for our past mistakes.

 

I don't see where saying that statement reflects a lack of responsibility. The decision has been made by the MM. NO ONE knows the future.

 

And, it seems to me that he IS being responsible under the circumstances.

[pricillia]

You wish you had someone else's man?

 

Oh by the way, I'm in a succesful marriage for over 11 years now. And he was single when I met him.

 

 

 

That quote stands by itself..no comment. Carry on...

 

well you seem to have the perfect life, with no mistakes ad no regrets.

 

Are you sure that he was single when you met him... he was not dating someone else... are you sure???

[Ladyjane14]

To LJ, your position against joint custody is really disheartening.

 

You are suggesting that our court system, as flawed as it is, would be able to legislate morality? I can't even imagine what would happen. What other grounds would cause no visitation: what if one parent were to convince the judge that the other were too emotionally detached? what about religious differences (assuming the judge shares religion with one parent and not the other)? How would this ball of wax unfold?

 

I think what I'm suggesting is that the court system do a better job addressing the needs of the child as opposed to the needs of the parent. And while I'm not suggesting that parents who aren't abusive should have their contact terminated... I think maybe kids could benefit from having one definitive parenting role model when parents separate.

 

Why should a child be split just because his parent's relationship has?

 

While it's true that I've advised guys in the Separation/Divorce forum here at LS to make absolutely certain that they're getting at least 50/50... I'm not so certain I've given them the best advice. More and more, I'm thinking full custody would be better. Certainly there should be visitation, but there should only be ONE real decision maker.

 

Kids end up pulled in two different directions, and oftentimes confused when developing their personal values, hence so many in the world who seem to have none. There are two separate sets of rules and two separate sets of ideals for them to adhere to. So, while I'm not suggesting that the parent who elects to divide the family have no contact or visitation... what I am suggesting is that the child, himself, not pay for that decision.

 

If yesmaybe's MM is a good father and teaches his child that when people make mistakes (even huge ones) they own up to them and make amends to the wronged parties ....

 

I don't understand why you believe this guy is a good father.

 

When you remove the multiple layers of high-gloss whitewash.... what he's proposing is to 'shack up' with his mistress, a woman who's something on the order of half his age, and who has been instumental in the destruction of his child's family dynamic. And all of that just a couple of blocks away, right in this boy's face and adding daily insult to his mother's injury.

 

Personally, this guy could be Bill Cosby on every other count... but I still wouldn't call him a "good father". This set up has all the ingredients to become both embarrassing and painful. Imagine trying to explain to your friends why Daddy's live-in girlfriend is closer to your age than to his.

 

Should we just give yesmaybe and MM a scarlett A to wear on their clothing and call it a day?

 

I don't think that's really necessary, but it would be really NICE if she'd leave this poor kid out of her drama.

 

OW lands her man... who cares? I surely don't. I figure like folks will find each other. But that young man has just lost his family. It's not right to forcefeed him any kind of "relationship development" with Dad's new squeeze.

 

Plain talk, but it's quickest to the point I'm trying to make.

[Touche]

well you seem to have the perfect life, with no mistakes ad no regrets.

 

Are you sure that he was single when you met him... he was not dating someone else... are you sure???

 

Oh gosh. You made me laugh Pricillia

 

Of COURSE I was sure silly! I saw him every single day from the time we had our first date. He called me from work every single day and we met for lunch a few times a week in addition to seeing each other every night from day one after that first date. Why, he proposed 4 weeks later. Many here already know my story. I wonder when he would have had time to have another honey on the side?

 

So yeah...I'm very sure he was not dating someone else at the time. Besides, someone of his fine character would never do such a thing. Can I possibly be wrong after 12 years with this man? Hmmmm:rolleyes:

 

Oh and by the way, have you ever read any of my posts? Obviously not because I have often spoken of my regrets and my-not-so- perfect life. But yeah, I admit it's as perfect as one can get! Yes, I have a LOT to be thankful for.

 

Why make this personal anyway? I expressed my thoughts on this subject. And I wished the OP well.

[pricillia]

ok..............

[stillhere]

Oh gosh. You made me laugh Pricillia

 

Of COURSE I was sure silly! I saw him every single day from the time we had our first date. He called me from work every single day and we met for lunch a few times a week in addition to seeing each other every night from day one after that first date. Why, he proposed 4 weeks later. Many here already know my story. I wonder when he would have had time to have another honey on the side?

 

So yeah...I'm very sure he was not dating someone else at the time. Besides, someone of his fine character would never do such a thing. Can I possibly be wrong after 12 years with this man? Hmmmm:rolleyes:

 

Oh and by the way, have you ever read any of my posts? Obviously not because I have often spoken of my regrets and my-not-so- perfect life. But yeah, I admit it's as perfect as one can get! Yes, I have a LOT to be thankful for.

 

Why make this personal anyway? I expressed my thoughts on this subject. And I wished the OP well.

 

 

One can never be too sure Touche.............my MM is proof of that. His W would never even possibly have a hint of a thought that her H would cheat on her. They've been M for over 15 years, and she thinks she knows him so well. And he has been with me for over a year, just shows that everyone isn't who you think they are. It can happen to anyone.

 

I'm not saying that your M isn't happy and that he would cheat on you, but it does happen.

 

As for YM, i wish you luck. You both seem to have really thought this through, and you know what you are getting yourself into. I wish you all the happiness that you deserve.