yes, it does happen - MM is separating

[Touche]

No, this wasn't directed at you. I was talking about Still's reply to you.

 

Oh ok.............

[Touche]

Sorry:o You're right. I'm one of the ones that said "never" about getting involved in my saga so it strikes a nerve with me. I am now the person that says I will "never" love a man the way I loved him. Go figure.

 

No need for apologies. Anyway, you know what? You're RIGHT to say you won't ever love a man the way you loved him. No two loves are alike. Just think. You might love the next man even MORE.

 

Pretty much ALL of us have said that and gone on to love even better. Ask anyone. One day you'll wonder what was so great about this love. That's how much better it can be the next time around. And I wish that for you.

 

So you're right. You won't ever love a man the same way you loved this man.

[Ladyjane14]

And what about situations where both parents elect to divorce because they've fallen out of love? How would the court decide which parent has the better set of rules and set of ideals? Is this avoidance of joint custody a general issue for you, or one that only pertains to adultery?

 

Perhaps in those cases there should be mediation for as long as it takes until an agreement is made. Mind you... I'm still in the "mulling" process regarding my feelings on joint custody.

But lately, I'm not seeing the positives in it.

 

Because it seems that adultery is a hot button issue for you that, as exemplified in your quote below, trumps any other good a person might do as a parent. And though I am no apologist for cheaters, that to me seems overly harsh.

 

Oh... I make no bones about my stance on adultery. I'm against it in case you didn't notice.

 

But as it applies to issues regarding children, I think it shows demonstratively that the adulterer has prioritized his own wants/needs ahead of that of the family unit. In my mind it sets a precident for possible future behavior that will again underpriortize the needs of the child. IOW, the adulterer now has a track record for making poor choices regarding his family.

 

I don't know -- I don't quite see the shacking up since he wants to marry yesmaybe. And I don't see throwing the relationship in the child's face by wanting to be close to him - - I see an involved parent who is trying to make divorce work. I see a lot of honesty with the child, which is unusual and might just help him out later in life. I hope my optimism is closer to the reality than your pessimism and they are able to make the best out of a bad situation.

 

It takes all kinds to make the world. Maybe 'shacking up' is generational terminology, but it's still an accurate description in my book. In actality, I think this whole story is cheesy. One example of many..... What therapist worth her salt would give couples counseling to a MM who's cheating on his wife? :confused:

 

Bottom line... I find the father's behavior in electing to move in with his mistress five minutes away to be in extremely poor taste and very disrespectful to his former family. Not quite 'father of the year'.

 

The guy's like some kind caricature, a poster-boy for male midlife crisis. So yeah... I think it's possible that someday his kid will be embarrassed by him.

[GreenEyedLady]

LJ: In custody, one parent is usually awarded primary physical custody and the other parent has visitation, and that's called Joint Custody. Actual 50/50 Joint Custody Awards are not the norm and for reasons that you have brought up (stability and security, and of course age of the children involved).

 

Your quote,"I think it shows demonstratively that the adulterer has prioritized his own wants/needs ahead of the family unit. This can be applied to anything if that is going to be the criteria. What about a Mom who runs up the credit cards leaving the family in bankruptcy but loves her kids? Or a parent with depression, the list goes on. I agree with Grateful that it would be madness for the court system to legislate morality.

 

As for the kid being embarrassed by him, he's at that age anyway.

 

My point here is don't put children in the middle. Divorce shouldn't be a war and the children shouldn't be pawns. The ideal is for children to be protected as much as possible and know that both their parents love them and it's OK for them to love them BOTH! That's the difference between kids being scarred by divorce or not.

[stillhere]

One question - DO you really trust this man 100%? Don't you think it is possible that one day he could cheat on you? Not saying he will (0r won't), but never say never...

 

I've learned that i should never say never............i agree.

 

Yes, i do trust him. He has been nothing but honest with me. If we did end up together, i don't think he would cheat on me. Yes, there is always a possibility, but i don't believe he would. I know this man inside and out, i know his every move.

 

He is not a serial cheater, i am the first person he ever cheated with in his life. He has been with 5 people in his 42 years of life. He is not a man whore, and he doesn't make eyes at any girl that passes by. In fact, you will never catch him looking at another girl.

 

I know some people will have a hard time understanding all of this, but he is not a useless piece of sh*t that chases any young thing that walks by. No one knows him like me, so no one can understand the whole situation.

[FlyingHigh]

My point here is don't put children in the middle. Divorce shouldn't be a war and the children shouldn't be pawns. The ideal is for children to be protected as much as possible and know that both their parents love them and it's OK for them to love them BOTH! That's the difference between kids being scarred by divorce or not.

In a perferct world that concept would be ideal. There would be no need for child psychologist or Children Protective Agencies to intervene.

 

But the "real world" is such that parents lack some of the basic parental skills to begin with. And "SKILLS" are learned behavior. So, if you have parents who lack such skills, what then is expected to be the future of that child? The cycle is viciously repeated.

 

So for the purpose of this argument, a cheating parent who has no qualms of demonstrating his/her disrespect by cheating/lying on his/her spouse with the child knowing it, that behavior is set as "normal." No different than when a child witnesses his/her parent physically abusing the other. That child will repeat that behavior and become an abuser him/herself.

 

It's not rocket science folks. Behavior is learned.

[GreenEyedLady]

FH: That can be said of any behavior. Overeating, compulsive shopping, excessive working etc. Where is the line drawn? Just adultery because you think it's wrong? (And I'm not saying it's right, I'm just trying to make a point).

 

Parenting is more than just skills. It's about love, compassion, perseverance and hard work. And children benefit from knowing both their parents.

 

There are several posters on this board who seem to want the BS to be the say all-end all with regards to their children. As so often said on this board, it takes two to tango. Children are not a possession and should not be regarded in that way.

[magichands]

There are several posters on this board who seem to want the BS to be the say all-end all with regards to their children.

I agree with your point there, but remember that the OW has NO say whatsoever. Butt the hell out. And the BS should not have to "fall in line" with MM's whims - precisely the opposite.

[GreenEyedLady]

MH: I was not responding in reference to the OW at all...I was responding in reference to the Husband and Wife Relationship and whether a WS should get to parent their children in a divorce...I agree that the OW has no say...I think that you misunderstood my post...

[Ladyjane14]

Where is the line drawn? Just adultery because you think it's wrong? (And I'm not saying it's right, I'm just trying to make a point).

 

When you break adultery down into it's basic components, we're dealing with much simpler concepts. We're talking about lying, sneaking, breaking oaths, etc. We teach our kids that these things are wrong from the cradle... and yet, we turn our back on that teaching when it comes to romantic love?

 

Hey, if I'm a reasonably intelligent, middle-aged woman and I don't understand why that's okay... how can we expect a little kid to wrap his mind around it?

 

At the end of the day, I think we do our children a HUGE disservice when we minimize our own bad behavior. And even though it sounds harsh... I think that if you have one parent who adheres to the lessons of truth and honesty, then THAT's the parent who ought to be the primary caregiver.

 

Today's children are tomorrow's adults. As a society, it benefits us all if they're raised with integrity.

[GreenEyedLady]

LJ: I think that we are going to have to just disagree...I believe that both parents should be involved in their children's lives...I'm not argueing primary custody...but to suggest that a WS should not be able to parent their child in any capacity is, I believe wrong...and I'm glad that courts usually go with what the child is used to...meaning if mom is stay-at-home mom, they usually give her the bulk of custody...

 

In regards to values, it is a slippery slope because at the end of the day who is determining which values are important and what is the evidence? What you think is simple and easy to determine, may be to you, but not to others. That's all I'm saying.

[Guest]

Mistakes in a marriage dont equal bad parent.

 

Husband/ Father Wife/ Mother

 

See the difference in the words??

 

I had an affair, my marriage did end in part because of it, but it had/ has no effect on my abilities as a parent!!

[bonehead]

Last I knew being a parent and being a spouse were two seperate roles.

 

Bad choices as a spouse doesnt mean your a bad parent.

 

When I filed for my divorce I had a number of people ask me how I could leave my wife and KIDS.......

 

Suprise I DIDNT LEAVE MY KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FlyingHigh]

When you break adultery down into it's basic components, we're dealing with much simpler concepts. We're talking about lying, sneaking, breaking oaths, etc. We teach our kids that these things are wrong from the cradle... and yet, we turn our back on that teaching when it comes to romantic love?

 

Hey, if I'm a reasonably intelligent, middle-aged woman and I don't understand why that's okay... how can we expect a little kid to wrap his mind around it?

 

At the end of the day, I think we do our children a HUGE disservice when we minimize our own bad behavior. And even though it sounds harsh... I think that if you have one parent who adheres to the lessons of truth and honesty, then THAT's the parent who ought to be the primary caregiver.

 

Today's children are tomorrow's adults. As a society, it benefits us all if they're raised with integrity.

Another honest and great post/reply, LJ.

 

GreenEyedLady-the overeating, shopping, smoking, binging, drinking, etc belongs in another psychological department - OCD, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. True that's behavior and habits with links to inherited genes. But let's not stretch it. We're talking about adultery -- cheating and lying.

 

Bonehead - cheating spouse is a "bad" spouse. Shacking up with OW/OP while still married and dragging a kid into it is "bad parenting skill". You make one mistake by cheating, second mistake by shacking up with the OP, then third mistake by dragging your kid into it. The first mistake was plenty. But the second, the third? Whats next? Impregnant the OW while still married? It now goes beyond stupidity and down right "baaaadd"...It has the markings of a narcisstic personality disorder. The concept of logic and thinking and taking into account the consequences of choices is zilched!

 

Anyone remember Algebra? If A is equals to B, and B is equals to C, what is C equals to?

 

Let's see, if a MM cheats on his Wife, and Wife finds out about the OW, then Child finds out about the OW, what does that equals to?

 

1. Divorce

2. loss of respect from family, friends, colleagues

3. possible loss of job if MM and OW works together

4. Loss of financial security

5. Loss of home

6. Increase in MM's expense Child/spousal support/alimony to XW and if OW gets pregnant, another mouth to feed and college fund, plus counseling for devastated kid.

7. Decrease of OW's disposible income because Wife can go after OW's income (in some states) if OW marries MM

7. STDs

8. MM's W/spouse/SO goes psycho and does a "fatal attraction"

9. OW wonders if her MM stb Husband will cheat also

 

Yikes! The list just makes me shudder....

[yesmaybe]

Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Nobel Peace Prize winner and Baptist minister, was a philanderer.

 

He cheated on his wife. A lot. He had a real weakness for women (some have even alleged that he had a penchant for prostitutes, although there has never been proof). The FBI, while spying on him for Communist activities, even documented these illicit trysts.

 

He was not a good husband. But, I wonder how many would say he was a bad person simply because he was a cheater.

 

Isn't it possible that romantic relationships should not be the only way to judge a person's character? Perhaps their parenting skills, contributions to human society, to the world economy, humaneness to animals, etc. etc.. should also be considered. And yes, one can be a great father but a lousy husband...just as one can be wonderful with animals, but cold and distant with other humans...

 

I think, if people really knew their subjects before making judgements, 99% of the time, the conclusion would be as follows:

 

Most people are deeply flawed, but basically good. Some "more" good than others. But most are still decent human beings.

[Chapter2]

You have made excellent points here. Thank you for pointing out that if you subscribe to what some of the posters here are suggesting you would be discounting a lot of good but flawed people walking out their humanity. It is up to each individual whether or not they are convicted or changed by the choices they've made.

 

Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Nobel Peace Prize winner and Baptist minister, was a philanderer.

 

He cheated on his wife. A lot. He had a real weakness for women (some have even alleged that he had a penchant for prostitutes, although there has never been proof). The FBI, while spying on him for Communist activities, even documented these illicit trysts.

 

He was not a good husband. But, I wonder how many would say he was a bad person simply because he was a cheater.

 

Isn't it possible that romantic relationships should not be the only way to judge a person's character? Perhaps their parenting skills, contributions to human society, to the world economy, humaneness to animals, etc. etc.. should also be considered. And yes, one can be a great father but a lousy husband...just as one can be wonderful with animals, but cold and distant with other humans...

 

I think, if people really knew their subjects before making judgements, 99% of the time, the conclusion would be as follows:

 

Most people are deeply flawed, but basically good. Some "more" good than others. But most are still decent human beings.

[Touche]

All great points but for me, bottom line: I would never choose a person who would do what this man did, as my mate. End of story. Is it possible it will all work out for them? Sure. But I'd never feel comfortable with a man like that. I have a very high standard, as far as what I need and want in a man, and a person with that kind of character simply wouldn't measure up.

[herenow]

Wow, I haven't been here since Friday and look what I missed. I read the first few pages and decided to post, so forgive me if this has already been said.

 

I believe yesmaybe said that she has never met or spoken to the W. So, she is basing all her info on what the MM has told her. Do I need to say more?

 

However, if this story is true. Thankfully this kid has a mother that can rise above everyone else here and do what's best for her son. Again, if this is true, I wish you both much happiness in you new relationship, it sounds like you are meant for each other. Like it has been said in other posts, sometimes you just marry the wrong person. Let's hope he gets it right the second time around.

[herenow]

OK, so I went back and read some more. If this is true the W and son are absolute saints or they can't wait to get rid of the H.

 

First the W fights to keep her marriage, but when that doesn't work, she takes the blame for the divorce. Then the day after they tell the son, he's out playing soccer telling kids about his parents divorce. How well adjusted they both are. I'm sure they will be just fine when dad goes off to be with his "girlfriend".

[yesmaybe]

OK, so I went back and read some more. If this is true the W and son are absolute saints or they can't wait to get rid of the H.

 

First the W fights to keep her marriage, but when that doesn't work, she takes the blame for the divorce. Then the day after they tell the son, he's out playing soccer telling kids about his parents divorce. How well adjusted they both are. I'm sure they will be just fine when dad goes off to be with his "girlfriend".

 

I don't know what's going on in their minds. I just know that everyone is being civil.

 

Also, they are Scandinavians - the culture is - shall we say...more flexible - than Americans.

[herenow]

I don't know what's going on in their minds. I just know that everyone is being civil.

 

Also, they are Scandinavians - the culture is - shall we say...more flexible - than Americans.

 

That's my point, you not only don't know what's going on in their minds, you don't really know what's going on in their house. You are assuming that the MM is telling you the truth even though you already know that he has lied to his wife. What make you so sure he isn't lying to you? He is still with his wife and making promises to you. Sounds like you are still an OW.

 

I hope for your sake I'm wrong.

[herenow]

My mother is Scandinavian and has always been faithful to my father as far as I know. I don't get what you mean by that.

 

Also,(again if this story is true) if this is his lifestyle as a Scandinavian, why would you want to get involved in that? Unless of course you wouldn't mind having the same flexibility in your relationship.

 

You seem to be making excuses for his actions and justifying yours by saying that the wife and son have no problem with you.

 

One more thing that sounds strange. If the MM is so wealthy, why did he fight so much with his W about money?

[Guest]

does it really matter why he fought with her about money, the point is he is leaving his loveless marriage.

[Guest]

does it really matter why he fought with her about money, the point is he is leaving his loveless marriage.

 

Actually, the point is that this story makes no sense and I see that yesmaybe has not answered here now's questions. She has never met the wife, but claims to know exactly what she is saying because she believes the MM. She claims that the divorce has no negative impact on the son and no one has any blame or bad feelings for the OW. All because they are Scandinavian. I think the wife should thank her luck stars that yesmaybe is taking this problem off her hands. May they live happily ever cheating, lying after.

[NoIDidn't]

And while you are throwing out Civil Rights leaders, why not throw out The Reverend Jesse Jackson, Sr.. Seems he's had a child out of wedlock with a woman he was sleeping with and gave her funds from his charity as child support.

 

Believe it or not, while MLK, Jr. made great strides on the world stage as a civil rights leader, his cheating diminished his standing in the eyes of a great many of his followers. No one is so blind as to not pay attention to how a person conducts themselves in their personal lives.

 

Having an affair for a MM is not simply a romantic matter, no matter how much you may want to believe so. It is a character matter. A man made vows to one woman in front of her family and friends, and then broke said vows. If he lacks character and respect to those closest to him, imagine what he does to those a little more removed.