do you tell?

[a4a]

Lets say you have some info about a employee that plans to go into competition with his employer. Continues to work with the employer until the very last minute.

 

Now this will rip the rug out from the employer instantly. The whole work crew may leave the current employer.

 

Do you tell? Freaking sticky as I see why the employee is getting ready to walk out, and has the right to. But leaving the current employer without any workers could be a pure disaster, a real disaster as jobs could not be finished without the crew that is getting ready to bail.

 

Just waiting on a contract to be finalized with a major builder and then they bail.

 

Been sitting on this for at least a month.

 

Almost feels like I know a friends spouse is having an affair but still have to face the spouse that is being cheated on daily.

 

The employee will not bail if the contract is not finalized with the builder, so if I say anything it will blow up..... on all sides and the finger will be pointed at me for telling........

 

Does this make any sense? I cannot seem to get the details out properly.

[melodymatters]

Yikes, I can see why this is troubling you. As I see it you have two choices:

 

1) play ostrich, head in the sand, you know nada about nada

 

 

or

 

2) Where does your loyalty lay ? I'm 100% Italian and loyalty is a major thing with me. If one side of these conflicting parties was my " family", I would do what was in their best interest and too bad about the fall out.

 

 

Good luck a4a !!!

[laRubiaBonita]

well according to the Ethic Classes i am required to take through work... Yes, you should tell.

 

but who do you tell with out labeling yourself a tattle tail?

[a4a]

well to make things worse the H has a grand opp. with the crew bailing....

the employer is his friend who he helped get the biz off the ground with.

 

Unfortunatley the employer/friend is making working conditions very unfavorable for people involved.

 

I have chatted that my H needs to take him aside and have a long long talk with him to explain that he is going to lose his entire work force because of poor mgt. skills, rotten morale, and his bitch of a meddling wife. (other employees feel that way towards her as well)

 

They have a 30 year history..... I saw this coming, but we both are just sick over this. I see the reason the crew should leave, but not leave like that. But if they say they are thinking about it.... well then what?

[johan]

I think, if I understand correctly, the right thing to do is to tell. I assume you'd be one of those left behind if the others left. And so they would be messing with your future, too. The reason you wouldn't tell is for fear of being the rat and possible retaliation?

 

In my industry, an employee going into business in direct competition with my employer would be grounds for dismissal. I think. This ethical stuff is tricky sometimes. It's usually best to go with what your heart tells you to do, and face the consequences. Neither option is very attractive, so do what you are most sure is the right thing. That way you can come out of it knowing you did your best, even if it wasn't right, and you'll have a better chance of actually being right.

[tanbark813]

Wait, so your H is the employee who's going to bail? Or he's one of the one's that will leave with said employee? If it's either one of those, then I would think your loyalty to your H should come before anything else. Why would you rat out your own H?

[Art_Critic]

You tell ...

 

If word got out that you knew and didn't tell then it would ruin your reputation.

 

What that employee is doing is unethical and possibly he might be civilly liable if he is using company resources to build or help in his construction of the new company and in some cases walking away with all of the employees might also be subject to a civil suit..

[a4a]

well according to the Ethic Classes i am required to take through work... Yes, you should tell.

 

but who do you tell with out labeling yourself a tattle tail?

 

 

Worse is I really like the guy that planned the whole bailing thing. He is dead ass right for leaving. I could not work for this employer..... the BS is unreal.

 

The money is excellent, but it could even be better for the revolting crew if they left. They have the knowledge, experience, and professionalism to put the old company out of business. My H can go in with the new company and even do better without the BS.

 

I could just puke right now.

Poor H has to deal with both of them daily in his face...... likes both of them and is torn between loyalty of course as am I.

 

I guess I could play it off and just say I did not believe the chatter when it happens. That does not seem right though. Either way one will get screwed.... the old employer more than the other if it goes through.

 

ack! Fruckin drama! :sick:

[Art_Critic]

Corporate espionage and stealing corporate secrets ( call lists, client lists etc etc. ) is illegal. so if he is planning on taking any clients away thru the use of company property then that also is subject to a civil suit

[a4a]

Wait, so your H is the employee who's going to bail? Or he's one of the one's that will leave with said employee? If it's either one of those, then I would think your loyalty to your H should come before anything else. Why would you rat out your own H?

 

H is not sure if he is going to bail, but the situation would be better if he did.

His "employer" (H worked as freelance contractor, only one in the company)

is H's friend of 30 years who has turned into a complete ass over the last 2 years..... his wife is the infamous kitchen chicken.

 

I would not rat out my H no matter what..... but we discuss this almost every day briefly.

 

Working there for any person sucks. It is run like a sideshow not a business but the pay is good for all. Not worth the BS. If the business was run properly and without the chicken kitchen mentality nobody would leave.

 

No worries about a civil suit, as the current employer turned down the business from the new builder...... stupid....... stupid........ stupid... .it is big long term $$$.

 

H can work less hours and make more $ with the new company plus without the BS drama daily crap in the 3 ring circus of a company.

 

But doing the right thing is important to both of us. But again business is business. From the current behavior of the employer it does not leave a lot of room for fuzzy feelings for him. But does still have an impact on our own need to do the right thing.

[Art_Critic]

Do you think you telling would change the outcome ? or is it already basically written in stone that they will leave ?

[2sunny]

I agree with AC.

 

On a side note, this is NO friend. People that I refer to as my friend would never consider doing something so mean spirited without knowing that I would rip them a new one and then disown them as a friend if they tried to justify the wrongdoing.

 

Some things in life are just wrong... this is one of them.

[melodymatters]

1)Ok, as your husband is a freelancer he does not have to be part of the original mutiny. He is an independant contractor who works for himself .

 

 

 

 

2) He is not God and can not stop the others from doing what they wish. If they want to leave and start their own company, well it happens all the time

 

3) once the coup is over, as a freelancer he can then decide what projects or companies he wishes to work for. If he decides to go with the new co. he will simply have to tell his old friend " Friend, you know we are buds, but I have to do whats best for me and my family as you do for yours, and I have a better opportunity with xyz co.

 

If the friend freaks, oh well. This is business. Like they say in the entertainment biz : " Its not called show friends, its called show business"

[a4a]

Do you think you telling would change the outcome ? or is it already basically written in stone that they will leave ?

 

No not yet. But this week or early next the first contract goes to approval..... once it does the leave date is around the first of the year.

 

So everyone just works at the old company until the contract is ready to be fulfilled.

 

So months of lies. None can afford to leave and wait until the first of the year to start the new company. Name is done, Inc is done, suppliers set up, credit lines set up.... it just hinges on the contract approval to bail and move forward.

 

H is damn good at what he does and that is why he has been asked to join the new company. He is faster, smarter, works harder than anyone there. He can make things work that most people just don't know how to do with great results....... yet gets crapped on by the current employer/friend which actually does have 80% to do with his wife (unreal)........she starts crap and expects employees to work off the clock while she doesn't even work there really.... hard to explain. That is just one thing. He also just hired a moron that has no clue about the biz but has him fooled into thinking he does via brown nosing....... it is like a stupid ass soap opera and the guys are sick of dealing with it.

 

Jobs are not finished, clients pissed, and it is all because of mgt. or lack there of. The company is probably heading down the toilet regardless.

[Adunaphel]

Lets say you have some info about a employee that plans to go into competition with his employer. Continues to work with the employer until the very last minute.

 

If you tell the employer, will the employee know?

 

In either case, do you have the "you tell him about what you are planning to do or I do" option?

[johan]

Worse is I really like the guy that planned the whole bailing thing. He is dead ass right for leaving.

 

Maybe. But I think he is wrong for trying to take the rest of the staff with him. If they are to be employees, that is. If they have discussed going into business together as partners, that's different.

 

It's unethical to use your current employer's resources to set up your own business no matter what. But particularly when you are establishing yourself in competition with that employer.

 

He should go find his own workforce and actually earn his way. Instead of stealing it.

[a4a]

1)Ok, as your husband is a freelancer he does not have to be part of the original mutiny. He is an independant contractor who works for himself .

 

 

 

 

2) He is not God and can not stop the others from doing what they wish. If they want to leave and start their own company, well it happens all the time

 

3) once the coup is over, as a freelancer he can then decide what projects or companies he wishes to work for. If he decides to go with the new co. he will simply have to tell his old friend " Friend, you know we are buds, but I have to do whats best for me and my family as you do for yours, and I have a better opportunity with xyz co.

 

If the friend freaks, oh well. This is business. Like they say in the entertainment biz : " Its not called show friends, its called show business"

 

 

Well it is a high tech company and employees that know what they are doing are very very hard to come by. If this happens the current employer will be crushed with current projects that come to a screeching halt. Most likely those clients which are mostly repeats will never use the old company.

 

dag....... I know my H would be happier leaving, and probably will. But his friend will be Frucked professionally by the surprise of it all. I am sure my H will stay on to help as much as he can, but I don't think the old company will survive having clients on a deadline pissed at them.

 

Thanks it is good to get this off my shoulders and see a different pov on things. There most likely was a huge blow up there today in regards to a different situation. So it may come sooner........who knows.

 

Limbo.........

[Spiderman]

Lets say you have some info about a employee that plans to go into competition with his employer. Continues to work with the employer until the very last minute.

 

Now this will rip the rug out from the employer instantly. The whole work crew may leave the current employer.

 

Do you tell? Freaking sticky as I see why the employee is getting ready to walk out, and has the right to. But leaving the current employer without any workers could be a pure disaster, a real disaster as jobs could not be finished without the crew that is getting ready to bail.

 

Just waiting on a contract to be finalized with a major builder and then they bail.

 

Been sitting on this for at least a month.

 

Almost feels like I know a friends spouse is having an affair but still have to face the spouse that is being cheated on daily.

 

The employee will not bail if the contract is not finalized with the builder, so if I say anything it will blow up..... on all sides and the finger will be pointed at me for telling........

 

Does this make any sense? I cannot seem to get the details out properly.

 

It's a dog eat dog world, especially in business a4a.

 

Surely any astute business man/woman should understand the possible risk factor of current employee's going it alone.

 

Many new businesses start when someone leaves a current employer to start a firm, maybe in the same city and in the same practise area as the former employer. Whether to tell the employer before you leave to compete is obvioulsy the fundamental question.

 

I'd say as the employee you generally owe a duty of loyalty to your employer not to compete while employed. However I'd say it was fine to prepare to compete, although stealing current contracts and employees is slightly unethical in my book.

 

If you're good friends with the builder who's going to get shafted, as much as I don't condone 'grassing', I would have to consider spilling the beans.

 

If the builder and the would be 'shafter' are purely acquaintance's I'd maybe suggest steering clear of the whole situation, safe in the knowledge that this will teach the builder a valuable lesson in business.

[Art_Critic]

So months of lies. None can afford to leave and wait until the first of the year to start the new company. Name is done, Inc is done, suppliers set up, credit lines set up.... it just hinges on the contract approval to bail and move forward.

 

you need to tell...maybe a hint instead of an all out confession type of thing

 

Role reversal ... would you want someone to tell you ?

[a4a]

Maybe. But I think he is wrong for trying to take the rest of the staff with him. If they are to be employees, that is. If they have discussed going into business together as partners, that's different.

 

It's unethical to use your current employer's resources to set up your own business no matter what. But particularly when you are establishing yourself in competition with that employer.

 

He should go find his own workforce and actually earn his way. Instead of stealing it.

 

They are going in as partners.

No need to steal clients they are coming to the new company already because so dissatisfied with the old one.

 

The old company is not run well and has lost clients because of poor mgt.

So no not stealing clients, or even lists, but when a client rolls his eyes when H mentions the new managers name it shows that they are not satisfied with the old company.

 

There are lots of details as to why clients are bailing - the old company- most of it has to do with total lack of organization and lack of professionalism by the new mgr who is clueless..... I mean really clueless but treated like a pet with full power.

[Spiderman]

Reading further, I'd say this chaps business is set for disaster anyway, whether is be now or further down the line. I'd just sit tight and not say a word, there's no need.

 

The builder in qestion should hopefully learn a valuable lesson from this whole fiasco.

[a4a]

It's a dog eat dog world, especially in business a4a.

 

so very much agree with this. The problem is H has been friends with him for 30 years so not a typical business situation.

 

 

 

Surely any astute business man/woman should understand the possible risk factor of current employee's going it alone.

 

Fo' sure! But the risk factor is almost nil once the contract is approved. We are talking 146 units to start with, and the hook in the mouth of one of the biggest developers on the east coast. The new team has what it takes to do great.

 

 

I'd say as the employee you generally owe a duty of loyalty to your employer not to compete while employed. However I'd say it was fine to prepare to compete, although stealing current contracts and employees is slightly unethical in my book.

 

no stealing only dissatisfied customers of old company, and those that the old company overcharged ......basically raped for similar services. Preparation only is happening at this point.

 

If you're good friends with the builder who's going to get shafted, as much as I don't condone 'grassing', I would have to consider spilling the beans.

 

If I do that means the other guys will get fired asap, and my H will lose a great oppurtunity as well to partner up with the guys leaving. He has not committed to a partnership or even as a freelancer, but under my encouragement has asked for what oppurtunity is there for him. If we rat the bailing guys out, they will never speak to the H again........ they came to him with the offer secretly.

 

If the builder and the would be 'shafter' are purely acquaintance's I'd maybe suggest steering clear of the whole situation, safe in the knowledge that this will teach the builder a valuable lesson in business

.

 

More than a lesson this will probaby shut him down......... his own doing granted because of his choices......but that is where the friendship thing falls into place.....

 

This is a fruckin mess.

[tanbark813]

a4a, are you an employee of this company (the current one) also?

[a4a]

a4a, are you an employee of this company (the current one) also?

 

Hell no!! Do you think I would have let the BS go on this long :lmao:

 

Although I end up doing things here or there on occassion. My H is an "employee".

 

If you are hinting at I should tell/old company..... that could screw my H out of a great future with the new company as well.... and possibly myself if I chose to get involved.

[a4a]

flipping a coin seems like the best answer..... either way someone loses out.