do you tell?

[alphamale]

if you're smart you'll keep your mouth shut A4A...and I think you're smart

[a4a]

if you're smart you'll keep your mouth shut A4A...and I think you're smart

 

so far I have.

 

If he wasn't turning into such an A-hole and fruckin up business so badly I probably would have already told him.

 

There is probably a zero future with the old company unless his kitchen chicken of a wife chokes.

 

I guess there is not much sense in saving a sinking ship if the capt. denies it is sinking. Friendship or not.

 

Thanks Alpha....... reality is this guy grew a big ego and made this mess himself. He won't end up listening or fixing it anyway.

 

On the good side once his business crumbles his wife will divorce him then he probably will end up being happier anyway. Sad but true.

[Art_Critic]

On the good side once his business crumbles his wife will divorce him then he probably will end up being happier anyway. Sad but true.

 

How do you know for sure that his business will crumble.. do you have any idea of his legs and if he can withstand a shakeup.

 

I have been in business since the late 70's. 28 years and I have heard disgruntled people walk away talking about how we won't be in business in 6 months..

Those people had/have absolutely no idea of what they were talking about or even what it takes to run a company.

 

Maybe this guy won't lose his company and the shakeup will make him leaner and meaner and then possibly beat the competition ( the new guys ) at their own game..

 

Never under estimate a business owner.

 

When Sept 11th hit us we had to go thru a first ever layoff here and lost money for almost 1 year.. We had to stop the bleeding so we reinvented ourselves for the new economy..

Today we are growing again and doing 20 year record numbers in profitability and our sales are matching pre 911 values.

 

Maybe the answer to your question really is do nothing.. let the cards fall where they may..

[tanbark813]

Hell no!! Do you think I would have let the BS go on this long :lmao:

 

Although I end up doing things here or there on occassion. My H is an "employee".

 

If you are hinting at I should tell/old company..... that could screw my H out of a great future with the new company as well.... and possibly myself if I chose to get involved.

 

Actually, I was wondering because I think in that case the fact that you're not an employee trumps all other ethical implications. That is, you shouldn't say anything. If you're not an employee but you get yourself involved then you're essentially becoming a meddling wife yourself.

[a4a]

How do you know for sure that his business will crumble.. do you have any idea of his legs and if he can withstand a shakeup.

 

I have been in business since the late 70's. 28 years and I have heard disgruntled people walk away talking about how we won't be in business in 6 months..

Those people had/have absolutely no idea of what they were talking about or even what it takes to run a company.

 

Maybe this guy won't lose his company and the shakeup will make him leaner and meaner and then possibly beat the competition ( the new guys ) at their own game..

 

Never under estimate a business owner.

 

When Sept 11th hit us we had to go thru a first ever layoff here and lost money for almost 1 year.. We had to stop the bleeding so we reinvented ourselves for the new economy..

Today we are growing again and doing 20 year record numbers in profitability and our sales are matching pre 911 values.

 

Maybe the answer to your question really is do nothing.. let the cards fall where they may..

 

 

Art I know we have watched it slowly go down the tubes little by little. He is not a business man. He lucked into it. He does not see how unhappy his clients are and with builders that spreads like wildfire. Unless he moves to another state he is going to only have burned bridges here as clients.

 

We are talking min. $40,000 per unit on avg. Word spreads among clients and then that is it. He leaves jobs unfinished...... literally unfinished and has a mgr that cannot even speak proper english to the clients. He bit off more than he could chew. Keeps collecting the money/getting new jobs but does not finish the jobs in progress..... at times won't even call the client to tell them when the job will be finished.

 

My H and others get sent in and end up apologizing profusely and working the weekends to try to smooth things over with clients on their own free time because they actually feel bad for the clients. (then his wife has the balls to bust one employees ass because he was 10 minutes late for work one morn) and gets pissy and doesn't pay them :lmao:

 

So not only is he screwing himself and clients- but his employees as well.

Not really all that bright and not a way to run a successful business IMHO.

[a4a]

Actually, I was wondering because I think in that case the fact that you're not an employee trumps all other ethical implications. That is, you shouldn't say anything. If you're not an employee but you get yourself involved then you're essentially becoming a meddling wife yourself.

 

Outside of work he and I are good friends...... very good friends. So not a meddling wife...... I am his friend as well as my H is his friend........or was.

[Craig]

An interesting challenge a4a.

 

As distasteful as it sounds there is no loyalty due an employer from an employee in a case like this. This isn't a situation where the employee is acting as an agent of the employer. The employer is buying the employees services plain and simple. The employee is free to sell his/her services to the highest or lowest bidder.

 

The employer on the other hand does have a duty to run a decent company to work at. If the dysfunction at the current company is so bad as to have customers rolling their eyes at the mention of certain peoples names, to have customers not coming back for repeat business and to have the ultimate dysfunction the non-working, sh*t disturbing, self aggrandizing, kitchen chicken crapping on everyones face then what in the world would any reasonable employer be thinking except that his employees are just putting in time until a better opportunity comes up?

 

The writing is on the wall and the current company is going to be wiped off the face of the earth sooner or later. If not by a mass exodus of workers then by an enterprising firm from another area.

 

But. There is always a but isn't there. There are no guarantees that the new firm (NewCo) would be any better. Right now there are a 'bunch of guys' that have had these talks about how great things would be if only they could <insert your choice here>. But the problem that will become readily apparent once NewCo takes off is that everyone had a different picture or idea of what NewCo would be and then the dysfunction begins again.

 

There is more, a lot more to running a company successfully than first meets the eye. Unless someone in NewCo has actually started and run a successful company there is going to be a whole lot of chickens running around with their heads cut off until efficiencies and procedures are developed through trial and error.

 

Does NewCo have a Policy and Procedure Manual, Job Descriptions for each position, a Dispute Resolution Procedure, Anti-Harassment Guidelines, a Code of Ethics, a Vision Statement, a Mission Statement, Graphics Standards Manual, etc. And does each of the prospective employees know and understand what these things are and mean?

 

Fear and greed are big killers in business. Just look at how the fear of speaking up at the old company (OldCo) has resulted in resentment and inefficiencies. Greed is spawning NewCo as employees sick of working for a butt head who is oblivious to maintaining a decent work environment seek greener but untested pastures.

 

Fear and greed will rear their ugly heads at NewCo as well. Resentment will build as some employees don't have their expectations met but see what they think is unfair compensation or treatment of other employees, partners or the employer.

 

So in a nutshell what I'm saying is yeah it's OK to keep your mouth shut because OldCo's employer never asked you for your input regarding running his company and this is business. Nothing personal just business. And nobody is stealing things that might be called the property of OldCo like client lists, etc.

 

Besides what would you get for opening your mouth? The kitchen chicken would ignore what you say, you'd be on her sh*t list and the employer probably wouldn't have a change of business practices because they are cruising along just fine thank you very much.

 

If you want to do something based on the friendship then approach the employer and say something along the lines of 'your company is run like crap and if you don't do something you are going to lose everything.' If the employer asks you what they can do to make things better, you can tell them honestly what they can do to make things better and the mass exit of employees won't happen because things are better or good at OldCo. Chances are, however, that the employer will dismiss, ignore and even condemn your offer of advice and carry on as usual. SNAFU.

[tanbark813]

Outside of work he and I are good friends...... very good friends. So not a meddling wife...... I am his friend as well as my H is his friend........or was.

 

I don't think that makes a difference. You'd basically be doing something similar to what your H's friend's wife currently does.

[Art_Critic]

My H and others get sent in and end up apologizing profusely and working the weekends to try to smooth things over with clients on their own free time because they actually feel bad for the clients.

 

I know this is off topic.. but have you and your H thought about doing it instead of the new guys ?

 

Maybe this could be a starting point for your husband and yourself to build something like a business together.

[a4a]

Craig that was my other idea to meet with the old boss/friend and have a heart to heart. I have before about other things. Then just let things go where they may. We have a outting date planned it may be an opp. to do so.

 

The new company would consist of 3 people with various degrees of business mgt under their belts. One is retired from a large commerical firm, one has 15 years in with the same company before coming to this one, one has 5 years in and is perfect for field /site mgt.

 

I am not worried about them getting along as they all do. They work side by side daily and have pretty much the same outlook on things.

 

None are looking to build the next Microsoft.... just do what they do and round up a handful of useful employees for grunt work eventually and have a comfortable income with satisfied customers....... they are all capable of running a company, and actually do more than what is required of them at this point even sales without getting a dime out of it.

 

They have all sat in my living room and we have had deep discussions on work ethics, ideals, goals, and requirements needed to get things running and to maintain it without getting too large too fast.

 

Probably the best exp. they could have gotten was with a company that is not run correctly to see where major pitfalls are.

[Craig]

At the very least the three guys must have dispute resolution and exit strategies in place before starting the business. Three heads will at some point in time mean three different and conflicting ideas about what to do in a given circumstance. One day, one of the three is going to want to go his own way or just retire or buy out the other two guys and what happens in that circumstance? Better to get these things in writing before they happen.

[a4a]

I know this is off topic.. but have you and your H thought about doing it instead of the new guys ?

 

Maybe this could be a starting point for your husband and yourself to build something like a business together.

 

Yes we have discussed it but it is not possible you have to have a min crew of 3 to tackle a job the right way. As the product changes with new tech. you have to have at least one person keep up with that end both in the training and field application of it. Each job/client need is different. Correct estimates and client relations is so important in this field. You have to know how to professionally kiss some ass and know your product and how to apply it.

 

It is difficult to find people that have all around knowledge to sell the job, install, and work out bugs.

 

On a personal note....... my H is not a good leader. I would have to take on the brunt of any business that we may start. Just like now. Now worth it to me to start another. He does not want that either would prefer mgt. not total responsibility. His words... he likes not taking his work home with him, unlike me.

[Art_Critic]

One day, one of the three is going to want to go his own way or just retire or buy out the other two guys and what happens in that circumstance? Better to get these things in writing before they happen.

 

A buy/sell agreement is the best thing is those cases.. it also sets up stability for the employees so they know who they will work for in case things don't pan out. it can aslo lay out Key man insurance and those type of issues as well

 

my H is not a good leader. I would have to take on the brunt of any business that we may start.

 

Bummer...At least you have discussed it.. I wouldn't want to have to carry another persons weight other than my own

[alphamale]

personally I recommend not being friends with or socializing with coworkers....it can cause a lot of problems. I've mostly worked for very large companies so its easier to do this. if you're working for a mom and pop operation it may be harder to do. whatever!

[a4a]

A buy/sell agreement is the best thing is those cases.. it also sets up stability for the employees so they know who they will work for in case things don't pan out. it can aslo lay out Key man insurance and those type of issues as well

 

 

 

Bummer...At least you have discussed it.. I wouldn't want to have to carry another persons weight other than my own

 

 

Health and ability issues are a main concern as the retired partner is 57 and who knows when he will want to retire, this has or is still in discussion.

 

And yep it is a bummer.... and part of my bitching here on LS. Until recently I did everything. As a matter a fact the big blow up at his work today has something to do with me taking care of everything including other endeavors we are in together. I am no longer carrying his weight in those endeavors.

 

There is a good chance because he is turning down (attempts to force him on an out of state job for a week) he may be looking for a new opp. for freelance work by 6 pm tonight He made it clear that out of state work was not possible for him at the start, yet Dippy Doo is throwing a hissy fit over it along with his kitchen chicken.

 

So I am sure there will be high drama to report when I see the H tonight...... :sick:

[a4a]

personally I recommend not being friends with or socializing with coworkers....it can cause a lot of problems. I've mostly worked for very large companies so its easier to do this. if you're working for a mom and pop operation it may be harder to do. whatever!

 

I agree.... he started with him as a favor.

 

I will give the H credit like me there is never mention of our personal life with business associates...... NEVER! Thus my need to vent here

[a4a]

I don't think that makes a difference. You'd basically be doing something similar to what your H's friend's wife currently does.

 

Tan far far from it. :lmao: And my concern is the new company as well as my H.

They came to us....... not just my H.

 

Asked what WE thought of it.

 

I never tell the employer what to do with his business..... nor my H unless it effects me. Vacation days or that sort of thing. But now they including the H have come to me to see what they should do.

 

Actually the friend/employer approaches me for employee relation questions. I never realized it until right now how often this has been done.

 

I just see it from a business stand point including my H..... boy did I side with the employer at one point and against my H. So no I do not meddle at all, they come to me chatting or asking advice. I don't call them. I rarely say anything but casual banter with them.

 

This is just guilt....... sound business decision would to shut up and take the best offer after the dust settles. Guilt does not pay the bills.

[tinktronik]

I am in complete agreeance with Alpha here.keep your mouth shut . Weve heard tale after tale of the kitchen chicken and her tactics with her employee's , not paying them ,ect .Let the guy figure it out himself and go on with your own life doing whats best for your family.

[a4a]

I am in complete agreeance with Alpha here.keep your mouth shut . Weve heard tale after tale of the kitchen chicken and her tactics with her employee's , not paying them ,ect .Let the guy figure it out himself and go on with your own life doing whats best for your family.

 

Yeah you are right just feel a little bad about it.

 

Not about the kitchen chicken losing her fun money but about her H. There are some health and family issues with him right now. He has done nice things in the past for us. So I feel bad.

 

ehh....