Four Months without....not the unusual

[coloradodiscreet]

Im Back.

In reading these posts a couple of things have been made more clear to me.

 

First, I see the importance of making seperate paragraphs. Really is much more easy to read.

 

I seem to be a fairly long winded poster. Sorry about this, I guess I have discovered a satifying way to vent as well as a cathartic way to weed out seperate but overlapping issues. For this and the responses I get I am very greatful.

 

I want to try to describe that I am not a "wimpy" guy by nature. I find that , over the years, I have attempted to voice my feelings in a non-threating, non- blaming manner. The communication breaks down when my feelings are dismissed, or I get put down for having them in the first place.

 

THe result of this is periods of relative calm, punctuated by short bursts of strife to the point of threats of divorce should sensitive subjects be involved. (i.e. sex, closeness vs. distance in the marriage, needs, wants, etc)

 

Mind you, it is she who would/does go for the nuclear option when things get too hot. As posted in previous posts, I had always backed WAY off and never forced issues that illicited this response from her.

 

Asof late, however, I have simply agreed that if that is what she wanted that I would not fight her in the proceedings. I have even saught help from a lawyer friend of the family to assess my resposibilities should it come to divorce. Her reaction has been that we should stay together for the kids, and that we should also try to work things out for us to try to develop a livable marriage.

 

Honestly I am at a loss. I want to be with this woman. But I am not willing to lead a "roommate,monastic existance".

 

For those who mentioned MC I am absolutely behind this idea, I am not so arrogant as to assert that we should leave the survival of our marriage to two people who are, historicaly, unable to make effective changes to our relationship. She steadfastly rejects the notion of counciling. I go solo in an effort to pull my issues together and work on getting myself in a place that is more comfortable for her to be with.

 

Even here it is all about getting to where she wants. Me being the only one to make wholesale changes to save the marriage. Is there something I am missing here? Does it not still take two to make this work?

 

I agree that, in a marriage that there should not be an adversarial approach. I have even related this to her in an effort to try to find common ground to work from. End result is quasi lipservice to the notion of working together , followed by a laundry list of things I need to change and ZERO willingness to even LISTEN to my viewpoint on things. AAAAGGGGHHH!!! SO FRUSTRATING.

[coloradodiscreet]

As Ladyjane said, game, set, match. It's over, you lose...

 

How can you complain about her failure to participate when you've given up yourself? Doesn't make sense to me, either you're in the marriage and trying to work things out or your ass is out the door. Can't imagine anything more frustrating than living in limbo - seems like you just wasted the last decade or so

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I guess I dont consider it complaining about her failure to participate. I look at it more as being forced to accept her control and to exist on her terms or my ass out the door. Is it not apperant that I have not given up so much as adopted a more defensive posture in the relationship in an effort to avoid being hurt,emasculated,humiliated,dumped on, controlled?

 

To be clear, I have allowed myself to be put in this position. I get this. I also get that it is up to me to participate in the healing. Fine. But this is not ALL on my plate. There is another person who shares responsibility for the way things are.

 

I would ask, if you were told no or were on the recieving end of a mercy F**K every time, and I do mean EVERY time you tried to initiate intamacy, would YOU continue trying? This ofcouse, assumes that you truly wanted to be married to that person as I do with my wife.

 

Let us also not forget that I now have a confidence/performance issue to complicate things further. Yes the little blue pill is an option, but I find that the need for this creates a degree of resentment on my part. Do I blame her for my inability to perform? At some level I suppose that I do.

 

When put into a situation where I am without an avenue to communicate what is wrong without fear of "reprisals" I.E. divorce, itmakes it difficult to move forward with the work to be done to repair the marriage.

 

With respect to "Starting with me" as a way to begin repairing the marriage, if you wade through my lengthly posts you will see that I repeatedly refer to seeking out advice/counciling from professionals. I reiterate, I am working on Me.

 

I guess over the course of these posts I have somehow mis-represented myself . I came looking for a place to blow off some frustration and accept some advice/observations/critique. I see, however that I have been unable to relate my situation adequately enough based on some of the responses.

 

I am not really looking for validation as such, perhaps something more in the way of understanding. If I have come off as whiny, or needy or wimpy that was not my intention nore is it an accurate dipiction of me. For any misconceptions based on my posts I am sorry. THanks for your help.

[Mr. Lucky]

I would ask, if you were told no or were on the recieving end of a mercy F**K every time, and I do mean EVERY time you tried to initiate intamacy, would YOU continue trying? This ofcouse, assumes that you truly wanted to be married to that person as I do with my wife.

In a way, you've answered your own question. If I "were told no or were on the recieving end of a mercy F**K every time, and I do mean EVERY time you tried to initiate intamacy", then I would not "want to be married to that person".

 

Don't get me wrong - I would try long and hard to make things better. But in a time when you only serve 7 years in prison for murder, 8-9 years without being able to express yourself sexually seems extreme. As Ladyjane said, you options are:

 

1. You can repair the relationship.

 

2. You can leave the relationship.

 

3. You can continue on with the status quo.

 

If #1 is taken away, you're left with a choice between #2 and #3.

 

Mr. Lucky

[coloradodiscreet]

In a way, you've answered your own question. If I "were told no or were on the recieving end of a mercy F**K every time, and I do mean EVERY time you tried to initiate intamacy", then I would not "want to be married to that person".

 

Don't get me wrong - I would try long and hard to make things better. But in a time when you only serve 7 years in prison for murder, 8-9 years without being able to express yourself sexually seems extreme. As Ladyjane said, you options are:

 

1. You can repair the relationship.

 

2. You can leave the relationship.

 

3. You can continue on with the status quo.

 

If #1 is taken away, you're left with a choice between #2 and #3.

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

I see your point. I also want to say that I appreciate your candor. Kinda refreshing. Def food for thought. I guess it is status quo for the time being. I still need to sort through some issues as the result of this situation before I make any sudden moves.

 

Hell, four mons with out is an irritant, but not life threatening. Another decade without being able to be sexually expressive....that might be another story altogether.

 

Question: Do I come off as wimpy here? I mean, all things being equal, how would you (Mr. Lucky) have delt with this knowing that you love your spouse dearly and that your kids are still in the equation?

[Ladyjane14]

I look at it more as being forced to accept her control

 

She can no more "force" you... than you can force her.

 

Look, I don't want you to get the idea that people are judging or blaming you. But the bottom line is that you can't MAKE anybody do anything. You can only choose your own actions. It doesn't do you a bit of good for folks to sit around agreeing with you. We can all post in about what a b*tch your wife is... but it doesn't CHANGE a thing. Change can only begin with you, because afterall... YOU are the guy who wants/needs it.

 

If you are absolutely positive that NOTHING you do will effect change in your communications process, than Option #1 is off the table. You do realize the truth of that, don't you?? I mean way down deep inside.

 

Communications is the key. Without it, you are left with only the other two options to choose from, much as Mr. Lucky has said.

 

By selecting Option #3... you are signing on for more of the same. There's no one you can blame for that but YOU. It's you who decides what is acceptable treatment by other people and what is not.

 

To hold on to bitterness or resentment at this point is just wasted energy. You have the keys to your own cage, man.

 

As to your other question, I have to be honest... I don't see postion as "wimpy". But I do believe I'm seeing Conflict Avoidance. Sometimes you have to be willing to chuck it all, and fight for what you want.

 

If you love that woman... and you want her. Then by all means, fight for her. Even if that sometimes means fighting with her.

[Sup]

If she is messing around on ya, I suggest installing a good keylogger, check cell phone useage, strange phone numbers, etc. At least by doing this it may put your mind at ease.

[Ladyjane14]

I have a quote for you from Flavius. It's one of my absolute favorites, because this guy has the "rejection" aspect of the problem totally figured out. Awesome attitude.

 

This guy refuses to internalize what is essentially his wife's problem.

 

Originally posted by flavius

I'm no stranger to the "slow to warm up phenomenon", as my wife falls into the low-libido-but-truly-loves-sex category. I've learned over 20 years not to expect anything spontaneous to happen, ever (that was a bitter pill for me.) She has learned not to make faces or act inconvenienced at the suggestion that she will soon be in ecstasy. I learned not to get hurt feelings during the ramp-up period.

 

Here's the thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49416

[coloradodiscreet]

OK. Deep breath. Lady J., Once again you are spot on. In an effot to be clear, I do know that I am the one who holds the keys to my own cage. Over time and through long discussions with a clinical psychologist friend of mine, I have been given a very profound tid bit of advice. That is, "don't allow her resentment,emotional control issues, poor attitude directed at me, etc. dictate my emotional balance"

 

In short don't just give up the power I have to determine my own existance. Now while this looks good on paper it is very painful to actualy live out.

 

With respect to conflict or pain avoidance, absolutely goshdarn right. I have , more or less, been heavy into avoinding discourse in the marriage. This started early on as the nuclear option, used by her, was the trigger for me to start "behaving". Slowly but surely I have stopped just accepting her view as the end all and be all. Choosing as wisely as I can the battles I want to fight.

 

As far as fighting for her goes, I have been seeking ways to effectively do that for the better part of a decade. Might not be perfect, but at least I am trying. With all that on the table , though , I must say that I have worked to a default position. THat being that at the time my youngest is of age, worst case, I will divorce her.

 

I find that this makes the most sense as I can not bear to be seperated from my children, and , more importantly, it allows me time to try new things to try to get the marriage back on track.

 

While previous posts might indicate that I am out of gas here, and that is a true statement, I am, I still hold out hope that she will mature and begin to (hopefully) think outside herself or view things from different perspectives than she does currently.

 

I have no unreasonable expectation that this will happen. It is purely a hope that I hold on to. In the meantime, I am doing what I can to remove any "weapon" she may have to be negitive about me.

 

Is this a perfect plan? Oh Hell no. Do I exisist in a place where there is much to hurt over and be dispondant about? Maybe, but I still have my kids and my realitive health, as well as a supportive family and selection of friends who allow me to see myself as I really am. Warts, blindspots and all.

 

See the key to surviving the next years to me is to grab ahold of the confidence I once had. Both as a means of preparing for the divorce when and if it should happen, as well as a means of being better prepared for a turn around on her part ifthat should happen. I suspect that if I gain that confidence I would become much more attractive to her. In other words, if I remove the aveneus of complaint and become more confident in myself, she either has to fall back in love with me or, we just need to end the marriage for our own good.

 

THe one thing I have in my favor is time. If she bails before plan "A" is to fruition, thats fine, I may not be 100% preped for it, but I will manage. If she cheats, I will end the marriage. No if, ands, or buts about it. I guess I just want to be in process of re-calibrating my own life (as stated by LJ and others) so that I am as prepared for what comes my way as I can be.

I think this squares with my posts as I re-read them. Not really news.

 

I also do not think that I was being judged or blamed. As stated in previous posts, I was looking for a place to unload. I am actually glad that you all did not jump on and provide me with a collection of "your wife is a B**ch" blah, blah, blah. Also not what I was looking for. Was I looking for more understanding, yup. But it seems that it was more my inability to articulate things that caused miscues. On balance everone who posts to this thread has posted things that I was either already doing or already knew.

 

Thanks again. I will be around so feel free to post more to this thread or let it die.

[Sup]

Just MO, why do YOU gotta walk on eggshells?

[Guest]

First I must say I have the same problem only besides the family past issues my possibly soon to be wife has depression issues. I've found that asking for sex is like going to a complaint department when it's closed.

Advice, don't ask ever for sex!!! You start with touching in a loving and caring way and just let it continue from there (don't say a word!!!). As to the counselor needed, yes she needs more than one psychiatrist and you need a lesson in understanding your needs don't need to be discussed because she knows you have them as well as the fact she knows she needs sex as well. She probably has such problems with communications that the only way she can talk about the issue of sex is to say no and avoid any intimacy!!! The less you say to her the better off you are!!! Good luck and remember she's not your fault!!!

[coloradodiscreet]

Just MO, why do YOU gotta walk on eggshells?

 

I think mostly because I am dis-inclined to go over old news with her. Nothing ever gets settled other than a brief letting off of steam. Nothing substantive.

 

This is due to our inability to stay on task during an argument. She will say anything that is hurtful or pain inducing to derail the discussion. In the past I have taken the bait and got sucked into that mess. The past two years or so I have been steadfast in my focus and this just ratchets up the level of vitriol that gets sent back my way.

 

She has a natural tendancy to go right for the throat in arguments. It is how she "wins" She knows what to say to generate the most pain in the least ammount of time and does so to shut the argument down when she is done.

[coloradodiscreet]

First I must say I have the same problem only besides the family past issues my possibly soon to be wife has depression issues. I've found that asking for sex is like going to a complaint department when it's closed.

Advice, don't ask ever for sex!!! You start with touching in a loving and caring way and just let it continue from there (don't say a word!!!). As to the counselor needed, yes she needs more than one psychiatrist and you need a lesson in understanding your needs don't need to be discussed because she knows you have them as well as the fact she knows she needs sex as well. She probably has such problems with communications that the only way she can talk about the issue of sex is to say no and avoid any intimacy!!! The less you say to her the better off you are!!! Good luck and remember she's not your fault!!!

 

 

 

Thanks. I have done this. It never works. Unless she is initiating sex there will be none. She has rebuffed any and all attempts to establish intamacy from me for as long as we have been married.

 

While I agree with previous posters who state that I need to communicate my needs to her in theory, There is just no way to equilize the initiation of intamacy based on individual needs. It really is a onesided equation. If I want it the answer is no or, at best a mercy f*ck. No thanks. If she wants it, I had better saddle up or there may not be any for a loooonnnngggg time. Mind you, this is not stated verbaly, but the implication is VERY clear. Not making assumptions, just observations.

[JamesM]

CD, I went through all of your posts, and still have something to add.

 

First, let me say I truly do understand. I went for four to six years of virtually no sex. While it is not perfect yet, we are at least a team again, and she is trying to determine what else she can do to bring back the passion.

 

I see nothing regarding a medical issue. Before you poo poo the idea, let me explain. My wife was a different person during the past six or more years. It was due to hypothyroidism. Because I came to this Board and another, a solution was given....a change in medicine...and she is now no longer the moody negative person she was.

 

Has you wife ever had any medical issues at all? While pregnant or after, was her thyroid ever considered low? Has it ever been a problem...even if she is on meds for it now? Has she had diabetes? Has she been diagnosed with any sort of emotional issues...ie depression? I would suggest ruling these out. Some of the things you mention her saying are similar to my wife during that period. She said the most hurtful things, and sex was simply me wanting it. Yet when the meds were changed, her attitude changed with them.

 

As has been said, you have three choices...fix, leave or live with it.

 

Don't live with it. It has affected your marriage completely. Despite what has been said, it isn't all her issue. Why? Because it affects you every day...at home or at work. I am guessing that when you think of her, your thoughts of anger cloud any good thoughts you once had of her.

 

Leaving is a last resort...there are children. It is in their and your best interest to exhaust all possible means to fix the problem. At least then you will be able to say to them, "I did everything I could before pronouncing the marriage dead."

 

So, fixing it. Personally, I see either an affair, a medical issue, or a relationship problem.

 

If there is an affair, the husband is the last to know, but on the other hand, you may have some inkling. Does she work outside of the home? Does she goe out with friends? (Remember this could be male or female). Does she work late? When she leaves, does she dress up more than if she goes out with you? Does she spend time on the telephone or computer? Does she have her own cell phone that you are not allowed to see?

 

I mentioned the medical issue, but really, please look into this. It would be hard to bring up to her if you don't know, but I am guessing that you know. What medications does she take? These can definitely kill the libido. Is she afraid of getting pregnant yet? I am guessing this is not an issue.

 

Then of course we can't leave out the relationship area. You mentioned being on the blue pill. What made you start? Was it a medical issue or the fact that you could not have much sex with her? When you mentioned that you have accused her of faking "it," have you had many arguments about the sex you have had between you when it was good? Do you remember when the sex became a problem? Was it right after a pregnancy, death in family, or any other stress issue? Has she ever mentioned that you do/did not please her?

 

Did you or she ever cheat while married? Has she ever accused you of cheating...even though you haven't? Do you use alot or porn...or alot as she sees it?

 

Since I have been there, I can unerstand the pain, but now that I have reached the other side, I also know that this is possible to conquer. I know that not everyone's issues can be solved the same way as mine. And I know that yours may be much more complicated than mine...or completely different, but please look into everything possible.

 

In my case, there are so many issues that could/can be the reason (mental issue, physical, meds side effect, relationship, and childhood sex abuse), that it seemed impossible to figure out(and I think I am still figuring it all out). Yet the simple change in medicine which brought my wife's thyroid to normal has not onlyu given her some to most of her libido back, it has taken away the pain and mooodiness she lived with.

 

Your answer may be just around the corner.

[coloradodiscreet]

James,

I was hoping that you would weigh in on this. I suspect that there may be a medical issue here with her. Thyroid issues with her Mom make me wonder.

 

Sex has been sporadic (once a month at best) throughout the marriage. The Little Blue Pill came about a year ago due to my own feelings of inadaqacy and due , in part to her non-interest in being with me over the years. I began to have acute difficulty maintaining and this was becoming a cycle of no confidence, try to perform, fail, no confidence. I just came to the point where I was unwilling to have my masculinity dimminished any further either through her behaviour or through myown psychological issues. No medical reason for poor performance.

 

No cheating by me. Very little in the way of porn. (only for extreme distress) I am able to take things into my own hands visualizing her and find that effective.

 

I have no idea if she is cheating or not. Like I said, I doubt I would ever know unless she told me.

 

I actually never accused her of faking. She viewed it that way, but this was after we had been intimate and she just rolled over and went to sleep.I asked her flat out if I was still a turn on for her. I asked if she was still hot for me. I explained that this was not an accusation, just wondering because of her reaction after being together. SHE FREAKED! Total fight.

 

I was meeting a physical need and nothing more. This was not the first time. It had been this way for awhile. Months without, then boom, go for it, then "goodnight". Wam bam thank you Sam.

 

I like a session of jungle love as much as the next guy. A good F**k is good. I also like to "make Love too. Either way I am available to participate. But once I got the feeling that there was no real "heat" for me, I felt like a living dildo instead of a playmate to enjoy those times with. THis is what really led to my dysfunction with the equipment.

 

I read your post and find that your perspective , as well as those from others, to be very helpful. THank you. I will be continuing to explore various methods of re-establishing the "team" feeling in my house. I am hopeful as to the outcome.

[JamesM]

As for thyroid...has your wife ever been tested? And when she was pregnant, they do test...do you remember any comments then that her thyroid was low?

 

BTW, how good is your communication outside of sex? Do the two of you go out together often...once a week to once every week? We have started doing this, and it really helps bring that spark back. Can you talk with her about her health? Do you two have fun together? Maybe just dating with no ulterior motive can bring something back...even if it is just the "we are a team" attitude.

 

Does she work outside of the home? How many hours do you work? And back to my questions before, not meaning to pressure, does she get out much? Too much? Do you go out with the guys often? Who does the cleaning, the bills? Does she have a cell phone, email, etc you are not involved with?

 

Having sex once a month for your whole marriage...was it never more, like at the beginning? And just because it was once a month, did/does she really enjoy it then?

 

When you have sex, does she get an orgasm most of the time? This is not a slam at you. My wife could not reach orgasm in the last couple of years except on a rare occasion...I assume due to thyroidism, but it may have been emotional. And although my technique never changed (probably my enthusiasm increased!), she can now have orgasms again.

 

I am not sure if you can ask your wife this, but does she ever think about having sex ever? Does she masturbate? Not meaning to be personal, but again if it is medical, she may not have any interest in sex, simply because nothing gets turned on. This has nothing to do with you. If she doesn't, she will not get turned on by anyone or anything.

 

She may not want to talk about sex, because she KNOWs how important it is to you. She can see around her that women and men should want to have sex. She doesn't, so to talk about it means she has to face the fact that either something is wrong with her or her marriage. In either case, she is failing as a wife. The anger and hurtful statements are a defense mechanism to keep you at bay, and hopefully, another week or month will pass before the topic arises again. And by hurling statements at you, she can deny that she needs to change or that she has a problem...it is all about you, because if YOU did not want sex, then the two of you would be happy.

 

And trust me, if you left her over this, it would be all about you wanting sex and not really loving her.

[whichwayisup]

She has a natural tendancy to go right for the throat in arguments. It is how she "wins"

 

When someone "wins" that means that there's someone who "loses", and the one (usually you) who loses feels awful.

 

That's ego talking, always having to be right!

 

You both have to learn how to communicate, listen and understand eachother, not bring up the past, or cross lines - Meaning name calling or disrespecting. Her ntentionally hurting you, going for the throat just shows how much pain she is feeling inside.

 

Marriage counselling - Give it some thought.

[DSD1972]

I have to say your wife sounds alot like mine and our divorce is in the works. If I had a dollar for every time my wife has threatened divorce I would be a very rich man. Her family is also a poster family for complete dysfunction and no personal responsibility at all. April 18th of last year we filed for divorce, she bought another house and moved in May 7th. We have 4 children, 2 of our own and 2 from her last marriage. During this period I completely removed all of buttons of mine she had been pushing for years and getting the results she wanted even if she had to push them a few times. I basically took every ounce of control she had over me and that drove her crazy.

 

By May 25th she broke down completely and wanted to work it all out just like that. She has always went for the nuclear option and then cuts and runs but low and behold reality sets in sooner than later and she wants it all back. I starting with the MC myself and she joined me when she wanted to come back. Both the thearapist and the phychologist both said to take this process very slow and not jump right back in but I thought that for once in her life she knew change was in order with or without me and I jumped right back in head first.

 

She also seen the phycharist which said she was definitly Bi-Polar but to my surprise she wanted to deny this and I knew at that point we were most likely heading right back into the same cycle of dysfunction. After spending almost $10K on MC we left but I knew deep down many of my issues weren't addressed and I was back to avoiding conflict. She has major problems with wanting to have all the control. I know I've done my part but when I listen to her Ex-Husband speak of their marriage her actions in both appears to mirror one another.

 

She did cheat in both my marriage and the previous one. Thought I could forgive and forget but I believe that can only happen when the marriage moves from dysfunctional to completely functional and stays there. I have exhausted everything possible to no avail. She still spends money like no tomorrow, sex is the same for me as you and everytime I bring up the issues she goes nuclear. We filed for divorce 2 weeks ago and she has already contracted on another property that closes this week. I mean when she moves fast she moves fast.

 

It does appear your situation is alot like mine. The resentment for the years of dysfunction within the marriage have caused you not to care anymore. I know there is no way I can live on this roller coaster ride any longer. I'm 34 so I can start over with someone that will not do this to me. I learned alot in thearpy but can't truely live healthy emotionally under the strain of this marriage now or ever. Sure it was good for a while but the same old same old came roaring back like everytime before.

Even though the hurdle of divorce is tough especially with kids there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

If your situation wasn't so much like mine I would tell you fight it out but it appears she would need to actually take some responsibilty and then things would only change for awhile and then back to her threating divorce. I'm responsible for my happiness and I'm getting out now so I'm not sitting hear in 10 years knowing I wasted 10 years of my life in hell. I know I sound angry which I am but I can rest assured that I will be in a much better place in 6 months.

 

I wish I could give you hope but I know exactly what you going through and hope is only a false sense that somehow everything will magically change and be OK. I know now that sounds harsh but it right out of the therapists mouth and she was certainly right in my case.

 

Either way you need to make you own decisions as I have. You really need to look at whats going to make you happy as your most likely not going to force her to change at all. So if you can keep with the status quo then you take responsibility for what happens. You do have to take 50% responsibilty for what has happened here because if you don't you will have the same problems in the next marriage if it goes that way. I would go to MC yourself just to help understand your own issues so this doesn't repeat itself again in the next relationship. That is what I've done.

 

I wish you the best of luck on what ever you do........

[coloradodiscreet]

As for thyroid...has your wife ever been tested? And when she was pregnant, they do test...do you remember any comments then that her thyroid was low?

 

Answer: Not that I recall.

 

BTW, how good is your communication outside of sex?

Answer: Serviceable. Not great with sensitive subjects (usualy avoided) But decent otherwise.

 

Do the two of you go out together often...once a week to once every week?

 

Answer: I wish I could say that we do. However $$$ is tight and the inclination to spend time together alone just is not there. Not pointing fingers, just the way it is right now.

 

 

How many hours do you work?

 

Answer: 40 to 60 hours but travel quite a bit. She seems to find this as a good break. Does not really miss me. (assumption on my part.)

 

 

And back to my questions before, not meaning to pressure, does she get out much? Too much?

 

Answer: We get out enough I think. Not together, but we get out. She is busy with volunteering and I try to go out once or twice a month.

 

 

Do you go out with the guys often?

 

Answer: No

 

 

Who does the cleaning, the bills?

 

Cleaning is prob 60/40 or even 70/ 30 her. She does the bills. Truly is better that she do the bills...trust me.

 

Does she have a cell phone, email, etc you are not involved with?

 

Answer: Yes,yes, and yes

 

Having sex once a month for your whole marriage...was it never more, like at the beginning?

 

When dating it was every day pretty much. After marriage.....(insert joke here)

 

And just because it was once a month, did/does she really enjoy it then?

 

Answer: GOD I hope so. She does orgasm with oral, but has stopped having orgasms with coital sex.

 

 

I am not sure if you can ask your wife this, but does she ever think about having sex ever?

 

Answer: She has actualy said that she thinks about it quite a bit. THis is after the last child and 30th b-day.

 

Does she masturbate?

 

Answer: I hope so. I would really like to be invited to watchsometime if she does.

 

She may not want to talk about sex, because she KNOWs how important it is to you. She can see around her that women and men should want to have sex. She doesn't, so to talk about it means she has to face the fact that either something is wrong with her or her marriage. In either case, she is failing as a wife. The anger and hurtful statements are a defense mechanism to keep you at bay, and hopefully, another week or month will pass before the topic arises again. And by hurling statements at you, she can deny that she needs to change or that she has a problem...it is all about you, because if YOU did not want sex, then the two of you would be happy.

 

And trust me, if you left her over this, it would be all about you wanting sex and not really loving her.

 

 

Thanks again James true pearls of wisdom. Reinforces my observations/conclusions as being in the rhelm of possibility.

[coloradodiscreet]

When someone "wins" that means that there's someone who "loses", and the one (usually you) who loses feels awful.

 

That's ego talking, always having to be right!

 

You both have to learn how to communicate, listen and understand eachother, not bring up the past, or cross lines - Meaning name calling or disrespecting. Her ntentionally hurting you, going for the throat just shows how much pain she is feeling inside.

 

Marriage counselling - Give it some thought.

 

 

As stated before:

Councilling has always been on my agenda. She steadfastly refuses. My take is that it is utterly arrogant thinking to leave the future of our marriage in the hands of two people who have, historically been unwilling or unable to do what it takes to fix things.

[coloradodiscreet]

DSD1972- Thanks for the post. I see that I am not alone.

 

I too am attempting to "remove all the buttons" It is taking time and is confusing sometimes. But the work is neverending anyway.

 

She is not Bi-polar that I can see. Though, I do think that there is smoe type of hormonal imbalance that occurs relative to her cycle. PMS on steroids. Wild mood swings from one end of the spectrum to the other as the month and her level of stress goes up or down. Very unsettleing but manageable once I figured out that this was in play.

 

I do not want to divorce. I fear that that may be where this ends up and I am partially prepared for that. I am not sure that she is though.

 

Fact is I am focused on working on my side of things in an effort to affect some change. I am also focused on providing my kids with the Dad they need. In the same vein, I think she is also giving some effort to changing how she operates in the marriage. Small things that I notice and truly appreciate. I am always sure to make mention of them when they are noticed. Trying to encourage it more.

 

Sex....Well I am a roommate right now. Share the same bed but we sleep as far apart from each other as possible. Not a decision either of us made that I know of, just the way it is. Kind of subconsious I think. Emotionally painful for me though as I really need to feel loved by her. Maybe it will change...who knows.

 

As said before I have a number of years to try to do my part to improve things. I say this because our youngest is not yet in Jr. High and so I will have a bit of a wait before I can seriously consider leaving. I can not bear to seperate from my kids.

 

However, if things do not improve to a more tolerable level, if we continue the roller coaster model, if affection and intamacy continue to be absent, or if she goes nuclear again, I will have to give serious consideration to my ability to remain in this marriage.

 

Thanks again for your support. I am sorrowful for your circumstances, but it sounds as though you did all you could and simply can not take any more. I applaud you for the guts it took to make your stand and do what was best for you, your kids and even your wife.

[Sup]

I think mostly because I am dis-inclined to go over old news with her. Nothing ever gets settled other than a brief letting off of steam. Nothing substantive.

 

This is due to our inability to stay on task during an argument. She will say anything that is hurtful or pain inducing to derail the discussion. In the past I have taken the bait and got sucked into that mess. The past two years or so I have been steadfast in my focus and this just ratchets up the level of vitriol that gets sent back my way.

 

She has a natural tendancy to go right for the throat in arguments. It is how she "wins" She knows what to say to generate the most pain in the least ammount of time and does so to shut the argument down when she is done.

 

 

Then YOU need to do this and shut her down! And shut her up!

She walks all over you and you let her, you go for the throat.

[Sup]

By the way, we're giving you Ideas to check up on her, so you're not the last to know, please read up on them.

[coloradodiscreet]

SUP,

While it is VERY tempting to do exactly what you say, I.E. "Shut her down" It really does not do me any good other than a shot term feeling of one up man ship. However, kind of on the same subject, I think that removing any and all "buttons" that she may have been able to use to get me to act like "the bad guy" she accuses me of, seems to make more sense.

 

I say this because, I f I do that and she continues to be distant and continues to withhold love, affection, and intamacy, than either, she will wake up and see that there is some responsibility on her part to deal with as well as seeing what a great guy she married in the first place.......AGAIN. Or, she will not grow in that maturity and we will just have to end the marriage.

 

Know this, I WILL NOT be an emotional punching bag any longer, I will not be pushed around any longer and I will choose wisely those battles that absolutely need to be fought. This is a strategic situation , not a tactical one in my opinion.

 

As to the issue of cheating. I am giving the suggestions you and others have mentioned serious thought. My only question is "do I really want to know"? For the sake of my sanity I suppose I do. However, things being what they are right now, I am not sure that I am prepared (as though you ever really could be) to contend with that. Still giving it thought though.

[JamesM]

Okay, here goes....

 

My quick assumption is that you two have grown apart. Whether she is having an aafir or not, I cannot say, but I am inclined to believe that this isn't a problem yet.

 

Too simple?

 

If it was medical only, then I think you would be saying that you do get out, that she is your best friend, and that she misses you when you are gone. Since she doesn't, then to me it appears to be a relationship problem.

 

In order for women (most in my experience) to feel close to their man, they need to spend time together. The fountain of sex cannot just be turned on. It needs to be primed. This is done through conversation and time together.

 

Money is tight? Going out to a "cheap" restaurant is less expensive than counseling. My wife and I have begun doing lunch..as this fits our schedule...and it costs around $10. But evenings can be done for under $20. Your children are older, so they probably don't need a babysitter.

 

And if you cannot get out, then simply spending an evening together without the TV on can go along ways. "But we don't get along with each other." And you will continue that way until you begin "dating" again.

 

If she volunteers and you are gone alot, then she has ample opportunity to make other friends. If your wife is important to you, then she should become a priority.

 

She is difficult to talk with? The only way to learn how to talk with her better, and do less fighting...is by talking with her more. She probably feels (my assumption) that you do not care for her. She does bill, housework, takes care of children. You are gone alot and then come home asking for sex...assuming that she should be in the mood.

 

So, begin courting your wife. She may not be receptive at first, but you have loved her before...you can do it again.

[coloradodiscreet]

Okay, here goes....

 

My quick assumption is that you two have grown apart. Whether she is having an aafir or not, I cannot say, but I am inclined to believe that this isn't a problem yet.

 

Too simple?

 

ANSWER: No , not too simple I agree.

 

 

If it was medical only, then I think you would be saying that you do get out, that she is your best friend, and that she misses you when you are gone. Since she doesn't, then to me it appears to be a relationship problem.

 

 

ANSWER: I also agree.

 

 

If she volunteers and you are gone alot, then she has ample opportunity to make other friends. If your wife is important to you, then she should become a priority.

 

 

ANSWER: Rest assured that from the very begining she has been a priority. At first it was by choice. I truly was into making sure that she was put before "all others" including the kids as I felt that the marriage should come first and that everything else should be delt with through that "team". Unfortunately for me she does/has never felt the same way. Now she is a priority as a matter of her demand. I continue to take a back seat to everthing/everyone else, but God help me if I am not meeting her needs at all times.

 

She is difficult to talk with? The only way to learn how to talk with her better, and do less fighting...is by talking with her more. She probably feels (my assumption) that you do not care for her. She does bill, housework, takes care of children. You are gone alot and then come home asking for sex...assuming that she should be in the mood.

 

 

 

ANSWER: I do not think that she feels this way. The reason is that she knows that I am in love with her and she knows that she is a priority inmy life. She does the bills as a matter of survival. She is MUCH better at themthan I, housework is, like I sad before, split 60/40 to 70/30 her due tomy travel mostly. When I am home more the load is more evenly divided. Kid responsibilities are much more evenly split. I actually take great pride in my relations and ability to make myself available to meet their needs.

 

While I am gone a lot, I DO NOT come home asking for sex. I make absolutely no assumptions about her mood other than she is not interested in being intimate with me. Frankly, even if she were I am pretty sure I would not be able to accomodate her so damaged is my frail male ego right now.

 

So, begin courting your wife. She may not be receptive at first, but you have loved her before...you can do it again.

 

 

 

Thanks again James. Good advice.