Troubled with wife's past

[James8888]

Hey everyone, your responses have all been so great. I know some vary and all are not congruent with my own views but the variety of the comments has made this whole thing so much easier for me (especially Nora and Walk). I’ve been gone a lot lately and wanted to respond to these all but there’s just too many and I have little time. I do have another chapter to add to this story though. And, if you’re interested I’ll lay it out for you.

 

After carrying around this secret for the last 3 weeks I nearly had a nervous breakdown. I just had no one to talk to about it. This group was my only outlet. On Monday I came home and was feeling very depressed and tires. At bedtime (the quiet time for my wife and I after the kids are in bed) she though we were going to just have sex. I wanted to talk instead. I poured it all out about how I felt and even broke down (not something I do…trust me). I told how this whole thing really broke my heart. I told here that what bothered me most was how detailed her story was, how she was so into it, and how she seemed so promiscuous in her youth to me. Almost like a porn star…and that wasn’t her, which really hurt. I told her what I really wanted to hear was how it was a mistake; she was drunk, awkward, whatever you know. She felt terrible and came clean on everything. It wasn’t at all like I thought. She told me how she really felt about the incident. She really regretted it.

 

Fast forward to today. She called me from work and broke down. Walk, I have to give it to you and god bless you! You had this pegged from the beginning. It did happen, but it wasn’t great and she felt used and cheap over it. She was drunk and was lonely from a current break up. She actually doesn’t remember all those details either. She made a lot of that up because she thought I wanted to hear another hot fantasy. I didn’t, but she thought I did. She’s just been trying to make herself more on my sexual level, which now I see how much I’ve pushed her. I’ve also been with way more people then her…nothing to be proud of to be sure. She also told be that she struggled with this for 2 weeks after it happened and had no one to talk to, lost a lot of self-esteem and weight. After 2 weeks she went in for therapy, which lasted for 4 months. I’ll tell you guys this made all the difference in the world to me. She became human again to me and I respect her again too. This is the girl I married and I don’t want to judge her for this anymore. We all make mistakes. I sure did. I also told her that anything else in the past (hers and mine) is going to be kept there and never come out. We’re going on with the future and I really think this will make us stronger in the end. If anyone else is struggling with something like this I’ll say please just talk with your partner. If you can’t then talk to someone or even a professional. To carry it around will just make you implode. Today a great weight has been lifted for me.

 

I'm not sure if you all cared but I thought I'd complete the story. If more occus do you want to hear?

 

Thanks again all,

James

[Walk]

I'm not sure if you all cared but I thought I'd complete the story. If more occus do you want to hear?

 

WOW James!!! I'm so happy for you! I mean.. it's bad she went through hell and all that.. but, uhm... aw, nevermind. I'm just glad you were able to talk to her and get this all sorted out. Awesome!

 

And hell yes, we'd love to hear more. That's what this place is for...

 

Plus, I'm living vicariously through you right now.. so post away.

 

Glad it worked out so well for the both of you.

[Doupe]

Congrats dude Kudos to you since it took so little time for you. 3 weeks against my one damn year... i'm getting a bit jealous over here. But I had it much more rough than you .... you just don't want to know...

 

Consider yourself lucky... but the question is .. what if she did really enjoy it.. what would you do?? What if you had a threesome and you enjoyed it. Would you hate yourself because you enjoyed it?? This is basicaly forbidden talk to people who are facing it and going to face it. All cases cannot be solved so easily in your case nor mine... pitty pitty...

 

Funny thing you based everything on "not enjoying" it. See how it is hypocritical??? See how it is dumb?? But it worked... the feelings are almost gone..... and that's what matters

 

The human mind is lovely......

[James8888]

Thanks guys. Talking this out has really made the difference...at least for me. I'm not obsessing anymore, which was killing me. I guess there is something to this communication thing.

 

About the enjoyment question: I never really had a problem if she liked the sex or not. I mean, who wouldn't for the most part. The part I had most problems with was the lifestyle thing (before and after the incident). I thought I had found a whole new side of her (like a promiscuous nympho) that I never new existed. I had a hard time because it seemed very trampy and these guys used and degraded her. Not the way I wanted to see my wife. Because she was having emotional problems going into it and then had such regret and problems after how can I be judgmental or angry about this anymore? That would make me very shallow I think.

 

What if I had a threesome and enjoyed it....hmmmm I think I probably would. But, as a man I think (maybe this is stereotypical) I can separate sex and emotion when I want to. Women, I think don't have as easy of a time there. I will say that the times when I did one night stands in my youth I usually felt kind of cheap and not that great the next day though. I could just get over easier I think because society didn't call me a "slut" or "whore" because of it. It’s cool when a guy does it right? We really do have a long way to go there.

 

I don't think this is the total end of the story. Just maybe a start to a better chapter. I'll keep posting if you guys will keep reading.

[shoedevil]

I will say that the times when I did one night stands in my youth I usually felt kind of cheap and not that great the next day though. I could just get over easier I think because society didn't call me a "slut" or "whore" because of it. It’s cool when a guy does it right? We really do have a long way to go there.

I'm sorry you had a nervous breakdown (been there myself, but not for the same reason), and am also glad you and your wife are on your way to a better place together. But I'd also recommend reading some of the articles quoted here in the discussion. "Society" doesn't speak with one voice on this issue, in fact quite the opposite. I think it's a cop-out to justify one's actions with a naive urban myth like the double standard. Even when you were having casual sex, it doesn't sound like you completely separated the act from your emotional state. I doubt anybody really can. Otherwise, you wouldn't have felt cheap or guilty at all. I think "some people in society" have a long way to go. I don't think I do, and I don't think you do either. Maturity comes from thoughtfulness and understanding, not buying in to stereotypes. Some counseling certainly wouldn't hurt (again, been there too). Best wishes for you and your wife... if your marriage is strong enough, you guys can overcome anything.

[Doupe]

Beleive me James you would have much BIGGER problems if you knew she really enjoyed it. Imagine her moaning in pleasure having two or three orgasms while two guys double-team on her and they smile and really enjoy it too. Doesn't it make you throw up??? You would have never gotten over it .. really... not your type... it would need a man of much bigger inner strength...

 

I'm sorry to say but I definitely hate guys like you. No matter what you are now you still you exhibit these "i envy women" things. You said you "used" women. Oh so you were the stronger one and they were the weaker ones didn't they??? Why men do this?? Simply because they feel women have it easier in sexual things. Men feel an inner envy, fear and somehow want to take an revenge on them by "using" them and exhibiting their power by leaving them while they're still in love. It's like : "Take that you evil woman!!" Again this is describign something you weirdly felt in words and that is not as accurate.. but the point is there... not being equal...

 

Yes it's definitely normal to feel weaker in these kinds of things for a man. But it's a weakling that cannot find an equality between men and women overall. This is a serious flaw of all guys that did things like you. If you realize what are your pluses and what are your minuses you get a feeling of being much more equal and don't have to do these kinds of stupid things. A man should work on his inner strength from the start and not let it rot. Nor a man nor a woman of inner strength have a need to exhibit his few types of power over anyone. This is a principle of everything.. especially politics. If you have the strength you know it's in there and you don't have to be manifesting it to make sure you have it. But still this is evolution.. people like you serve a purpose.. you just work on a much less effective level....

 

So you got what you wished for .. too bad it was all so rosy for you.. you should have been punished more for your past I beleive and maybe this is a good time to seriously think about your inner problems.

 

And just a warning.. these feelings may come back.. imagining your girlfriend as the weaker one drunk who got used by two dirty cocks... ugly

 

I'm off boys and gals.. I hope we have learned something to look for our inner strenghts.. not all can do it .. but that's life baby.. if you can't find it get used to it and blame the nature... nature is a w*hor*e

[Walk]

Beleive me James you would have much BIGGER problems if you knew she really enjoyed it.

Man, that's uncalled for. You're describing James' Wife. Another man's woman. Are you trying to be spiteful? You're upset because James was more capable of addressing the situation then you were? He "got over it" quicker, and therefore you're jealous, is that it? You feel less, so you want to rip him down.

I'm sorry to say but I definitely hate guys like you. No ..........

Oh so you were the stronger one and they were the weaker ones didn't they??? Why men do this?? Simply because they feel women have it easier in sexual things.

I'm a woman, I should be the one screaming my fool head off about James actions, but I dont' find a problem with who he is now. He made some stupid decisions in his youth, he followed societies definitions of "what men do". If anything, he's guilty of going along with what every one else was/is doing.

 

The ones I hate are the guys who easily lie and say they "love you" for weeks, just to screw you and leave. Those types scare the crap outta me. Those are the ones that see women as "less", as "conquests", and as non-human.

 

So you got what you wished for .. too bad it was all so rosy for you.. you should have been punished more for your past I beleive and maybe this is a good time to seriously think about your inner problems.

James is not who he was back then. You're proposing that he should shackle himself to a past and destroy his future due to promiscous sex over a decade ago? Wow. Tha'ts pretty gestapo-esque.

 

I'm still getting the very strong feeling that you're jealous, and it's causing you to be bitter. That you hate the fact that you didn't experience what James described as his past. And instead of understanding that it was your concious choice not to be like that, you attack James for not sharing the exact same outlook on life that you have.

[Doupe]

Walk : Cool down there lady. Don't try to analyze my brain. I'm not going to analyze yours but a person with over 2000 posts on such a forum like this definitely puts you into the big trouble category. Since i'm the only one of few here who exactly knows what is James feeling and I mean every single thing. I definitely know why i wrote stuff I wrote. In order to get over it one must really challenge his feelings. James might have a thing or two in himself which might cause flaring up later and should dig up quickly anything that still might bother him. Imaginations are the worst. If it flares up.. you know you are not out of it...

 

Envious?? As I said earlier I feel kind of a small envy because they together managed quickly consult certain things which definitely helped. My little envy is definitely normal but on the other hand If I hadn't spend 12 months on it reseraching and challenging myself and the sexuality itself from every point of view. I would be robbed of very important experience and knowledge that made my life much better. Getting over something is like 1% of it. During this time I accumulated enough data to learn things you only dream about or don't even know they exist. But i'm not here to brag about myself. Lady this is really not my path.. I haven't chose the things that are more effective... it's not "my" outlook .... i'm not speaking for myself... i'm speaking for the things that exist and work in a certain way...blame the whole universe for it but not me... I beleive you will understand me sooner or later... and not hate me for it..

 

I would love to turn my last post into some kind of a lesson and a tutorial for all people who encounter problems like these. But it's not very easy. I'm not going to punish James. He punished himself for doing what he done and maybe should be more punished if he really doing **** to women as he said so. Ther's no such thing as karma but some stuff really gets around and hits you right in the face. He realized that he's mad at something he was actually doing too. But it doesn't really matter if he has done it or not.. the feelings would be there either but maybe the **** he have done made him more remorseful and angry at himself. He is definitely different but still alot of his thinking remains the same and he should be challenging it in order to be the real person with a real inner strength. And that is what he needs to be in order to be successfuly cured. I beleive he will be a stonger person in the future who will help the ones who are worthy enough.

 

These thread are like a time-capsule for other people in the future who "can't get over the past of my xxx" type A. There's type B which is much more complicated than this. So all you poor souls looking which will look at this thread later try to atleast learn something from it. I never really wanted to interfere in this type of threads but somehow I felt a need to dump the load here...

[Walk]

Walk : Cool down there lady. Don't try to analyze my brain. I'm not going to analyze yours but a person with over 2000 posts on such a forum like this definitely puts you into the big trouble category.

Interesting that you feel the need to cut me down. Why is that? Do you feel threatened by me?

 

I do have big problems. What was that quote I read...

"You say you've got problems as big as my own,

I'm forced to admit that its true,

but consider that fact that while mine happen to me,

yours merely happen to you."

 

(that quote isn't directed at you.. merely something I felt epitomized the general populations way of thinking)

 

Envious?? As I said earlier I feel kind of a small envy because they together managed quickly consult certain things which definitely helped.

 

Why would you even feel a little envy? Its not a contest. We each reach our own truths in our own time. I would think you would be proud of what you've accomplished. Why compare yourself to other people.

 

My little envy is definitely normal but on the other hand If I hadn't spend 12 months on it reseraching and challenging myself and the sexuality itself from every point of view.....During this time I accumulated enough data to learn things you only dream about or don't even know they exist.

I am waiting to be astounded and be thrown into awe by your all knowing wisdom.

 

I'm still not understanding why a three way would be a big deal. My partner is an individual that comes complete with a full past that includes multiple relationships, numerous woman he's loved and ****ed long before I ever entered the picture. I didn't start dating him believing that he only came into existence when he met me. I didn't think he was going to morph into me, and suddenly his entire history would evaporate. I'm with the whole man. Not just from the point in time that we started dating... He's had sex with two chicks before, he's loved women before, he's done kinky stuff before... So what? It's shaped who he is now...

 

I think it's naive to believe that a person wouldn't have had a varied and interesting life prior to meeting me. I'm not that egotistical.. geesh.

 

James here was more hurt by it because it would've changed who he fundamentally believed his wife was. Not that she screwed two guys, but that she portrayed herself as devoid of feeling, detached, using them for sexual gratification on her part... which contradicted who he believed her to be... When he found out that how she felt about it and who he believed her to be were actually still the same.. that's when a lot of his hang up on the issue resolved itself.

 

You do have a good point that this may come back to bite him in the ass later. He should be aware and ready for that possibility.

 

The rest of your post was abstract and generalized to the point of non-definable.. you have great truths.. blah blah.. ok.. Guess your future posts will either prove or disprove your claims. I'm not judging you. If you found your truth, then more power to you. I'm happy for you.

[Doupe]

I'm still not understanding why a three way would be a big deal. My partner is an individual that comes complete with a full past that includes multiple relationships, numerous woman he's loved and ****ed long before I ever entered the picture. I didn't start dating him believing that he only came into existence when he met me. I didn't think he was going to morph into me, and suddenly his entire history would evaporate. I'm with the whole man. Not just from the point in time that we started dating... He's had sex with two chicks before, he's loved women before, he's done kinky stuff before... So what? It's shaped who he is now...

 

This is the most important thing for other people who try to help and i'm happy it surfaced. From what you said later in your post you basicaly said you understood the mechanism but yet write you don't understand (for obvious reasons). The feelings are pretty basic. You might think to yourself oh "i'm so cool that I don't have these feelings" but you would be much cool if you could imagine them. Can't imagine the feeling you ended up with someone you shoudln't have and your brain and feelings wants to detach him from you?? If you have a good reason for breaking up it's ok. But people with this certain dillema know that the thing they know as the "reason" for breakup is irrelevant but they're still getting the breakup signals and want to resist them. And that creates emotional havoc because somehow you're not so in control of yourself as you would like to. I feel personaly pretty uncool for ever running into this kind of problems but on the other hand they're pretty logical and I would feel even more stupid in the long run If I hadn't the answers I got during the process.

 

So the point still remains. It's not the matter what you think, what you do or what you say. It's about what you feel and how can you challenge it. The best quick recipe is to get answers and test them how they feel. If they're honest and still make you feel bad try to get on with stuff like power-play and etc.

 

And Walk come on.. this is not about me and my simple issues which you still naively dig up and badly adress (no i don't want to hurt you)...I really don't want to challenge your logic nor age nor anything.. you know you're trouble (i'm really not writing this to make you feel bad for yourself.. but to let you know I understand) so please be a good young lady and sort it out for yourself and let's not make it a childish game. Look I was in trouble too. Sort it out and now i'm happy.. I hope you will be happy too but please don't resist logic because you're the who will get hurt.. in other words.. just use more brains next time..really my last post.. I have nothing else to discuss... i've got a CG company and a restaurant to run ... did I just brag about myself???.. guess to show you i'm not a irresponsible good for nothing douchebag but a loving man that woudln't hurt a fly if he didn't have to..

[whichwayisup]

Walk : Cool down there lady. Don't try to analyze my brain. I'm not going to analyze yours but a person with over 2000 posts on such a forum like this definitely puts you into the big trouble category.

 

Don't assume just because someone has many posts that they're trouble! Walk is one amazing person and gives awesome supporting advice to many!

 

Hey, if she's trouble than I hate to know what I am! hehe..

[crazy_grl]

Doupe, I agree with some of the things you've said, but a lot of it is just generalizations and assumptions. You assume that you know exactly what James is thinking and feeling because you've been in a similar situation. The fact is that you two are entirely different people. They way you feel about it and how James feels about it are completely different.

 

And I don't care how you rationalize it, you said some very inappropriate things about James' wife. I think if someone said for you to picture your gf doing explicit sex acts, and vividly described those acts, you'd be pretty offended.

 

Don't assume Walk is "troubled" because she has a lot of posts. I've seen a lot of hers, and I can't recall any that gave me the impression that she is. Her posts are very helpful, intelligent, and informative.

 

guess to show you i'm not a irresponsible good for nothing douchebag but a loving man that woudln't hurt a fly if he didn't have to..

 

Why would you say that??? What gave you the impression that anyone thought you were a good for nothing douchebag? Why do you feel like you have to prove something to us?

 

 

Anyway, James I've been following your thread from the beginning, and I'm glad you got it all worked out. Keep us updated if anything else develops.

[James8888]

OK. Seeing as this is kind of about me I’ll stick my 2 cents worth in here. But, remember that this is also about some of you because I see it in your posts. Doupe, you can rip on me if you want and throw me in with a stereotype for men. I don’t really care. I’m pretty thick skinned. But, you talk about inner strength and finding yourself, and coming to accept whom you are. You know, I can’t help siding with Walk here and think that maybe you still have some issues to work out here too. The only reason my situation came out to a good outcome in my opinion is that I did some deep thinking and tried to accept and understand my feelings on this. I did, confront my wife and she opened herself up to me. In the end the truth was something I could better handle. Great. But if it wasn’t as least I got to where my feelings lived. She was young, drunk and in my opinion really taken advantage of while she was in a lonely state of mind. What’s worse is I can totally see myself (back then) as being one of those “user” guys that would have done this. I’m not hung up on the “dirty” statements as you noted. Not anymore. But I can see the personas of these guys in my past because I have now made the conscious decision NOT to be that way. That’s the good news. Judging my wife’s past unfairly would be the same as judging mine, when we both are in different places now.

 

Doupe, I don’t want to make you feel bad. I do think you are a little jealous here though. Why not take this opportunity to once again deal with your own issues here. Sure, there may be some pain but you may also resolve some unresolved issues that are buried too. When I hear you say those harsh things about my wife and me I want to get defensive. You don’t know me and you don’t know her. We may have shared similar issues but we still are different. I don’t want to go down the defensive road though. I find myself thinking of a philosophy that I totally subscribe to about my own feelings. Here it is and please think about this: “We always find fault in others that which we find fault or unacceptable within ourselves”. Whenever I find myself ripping someone else it’s usually something about me that actually bugs me. Not trying to rip on you….not my style. I just can’t help reading some things between the lines here.

 

Walk is obviously gotten to a good place of autonomy, which is sometimes very hard for a woman. But, she is there man and I applaud her! She’s right, she should hate me (for my past anyway) but she’s beyond that. I really do hand it to her and who ever she has in her life is really lucky to have women so intuitive and in tune with her own self. Doupe, I don’t really think you’re that far off either….you just still have a few things to work out of your own. I know you have done a lot of research and have vast knowledge on this subject but I’m not sure you FIXED the one thing you need here. Peace of mind. It’s there to have though. I’m already there on this subject. I’m cool with it. My feelings may pop up and bite me more later but that’s just human nature again. I’ll deal with it if it does and my wife and I agreed to talk the moment any feelings start to rear up again. She’s going to do the same. I just hope you can find this peace too. I know you can. You seem like a smart and rational person. I just really think you’ve got to face a few things yet.

[Spinderella]

I told her what I really wanted to hear was how it was a mistake; she was drunk, awkward, whatever you know. She felt terrible and came clean on everything. It wasn’t at all like I thought. She told me how she really felt about the incident. She really regretted it.

She was young, drunk and in my opinion really taken advantage of while she was in a lonely state of mind.

 

Not saying she wasnt telling the truth, because to be honest I think alot of women feel awful after a one night stand, and only make decisions that will make them feel bad afterwards, whilst in a lonely frame of mind.

BUT, why is it that you can only deal with it if this is what happened? Wouldn't it be better, if she did it because she just really wanted to, and didnt feel bad afterwards??? And not because she was feeling low and some guys took advantage of it??

[James8888]

I think the reason I can deal with this better is because it's more fitting with the personality of the woman I married. Thinking of her as a promiscuous, slutty kind of girl just didn’t fit. Personally I think some of these posts are getting too hung up on the sex vs. the feelings behind the sex and the lifestyle around it. That kind of stuff is the irrational obsessive thoughts I was having but they weren’t warrant or even healthy to obsess upon. Honestly guys, I really don’t have a problem if she liked the sex “at the moment it was happening”. Again, who wouldn’t? I’ve had one-night stands, been getting into it and loved every minute of it…while it was happening. But, when it’s done and you have to lie next to her or deal with it the next day it’s not so cool. I never wanted her to feel pain afterwards. I just have more comfort in knowing the circumstances put her back to the woman I know and married. I think for me (and guys for the most part) this would change everything. To hang on to this sex stuff starts digging into personal insecurities and feelings that maybe I wouldn’t measure up. I don’t have those kinds of issues. Between us guys, I tear it up in bed. I’m not trying to toot my own horn but that’s a fact. I always make sure my wife is satisfied before I am. Just the way I am. So, I think this question really comes down to personal confidence and strength in oneself.

[JamesM]

Walk : Cool down there lady. Don't try to analyze my brain. I'm not going to analyze yours but a person with over 2000 posts on such a forum like this definitely puts you into the big trouble category.

 

No, Doupe, Walk has many answers and feedback that she has been willing to share with the rest of us. For that we thank her.

 

I'm off boys and gals

 

Good bye and have a nice life.

[James8888]

I think I should addendum my post with one thing here. I do think that when I thought my wife did this in more of a slutty fashion it maybe did intimidate me and did shake my self-confidence a bit. Maybe that's why this also was so hard for me to deal with. A man's ego is a fragile thing. But, after hearing her confession that took all that away. And, then knowing she was still the same person I always knew it also took away the fear that she was someone I didn't know. So, hopefully that clears this up better on my feelings on why it’s easier for me now vs. when I thought she just did it for fun. It's not really about power or being one up on her for me.

[crazy_grl]

I think the reason I can deal with this better is because it's more fitting with the personality of the woman I married. Thinking of her as a promiscuous, slutty kind of girl just didn’t fit. Personally I think some of these posts are getting too hung up on the sex vs. the feelings behind the sex and the lifestyle around it. That kind of stuff is the irrational obsessive thoughts I was having but they weren’t warrant or even healthy to obsess upon. Honestly guys, I really don’t have a problem if she liked the sex “at the moment it was happening”. Again, who wouldn’t? I’ve had one-night stands, been getting into it and loved every minute of it…while it was happening. But, when it’s done and you have to lie next to her or deal with it the next day it’s not so cool. I never wanted her to feel pain afterwards. I just have more comfort in knowing the circumstances put her back to the woman I know and married. I think for me (and guys for the most part) this would change everything. To hang on to this sex stuff starts digging into personal insecurities and feelings that maybe I wouldn’t measure up. I don’t have those kinds of issues. Between us guys, I tear it up in bed. I’m not trying to toot my own horn but that’s a fact. I always make sure my wife is satisfied before I am. Just the way I am. So, I think this question really comes down to personal confidence and strength in oneself.

 

I think this makes complete sense. It's never really seemed like you were bugged by the sex act itself, since you have no hang-ups about that and even had fantasies involving it.

 

To illustrate for other people, I think what you were dealing with would be the type of feelings a woman would have if her husband suddenly bragged about using a girl by tricking her into bed with him, then saying how good it was and how he'd recommend other guys do it too. Even if he enjoyed it at the time, you would hope he had learned from his mistakes and was a different person. I'd be horrified if a guy I was with said that, but if he said it was stupid and he regretted it, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[Walk]

I'm getting a big head from all the compliments.

[Walk]

To illustrate for other people, I think what you were dealing with would be the type of feelings a woman would have if her husband suddenly bragged about using a girl by tricking her into bed with him, then saying how good it was and how he'd recommend other guys do it too. Even if he enjoyed it at the time, you would hope he had learned from his mistakes and was a different person. I'd be horrified if a guy I was with said that, but if he said it was stupid and he regretted it, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

I agree... Plus, the incongruity between believing the guy is a good guy, and trying to fit in his "evil" deed into that belief would be very .. uh, destabilizing emotionally.

 

James knows his wife as a good hearted, loving woman.. her "3-way" as she originally described it wouldn't fit that persona he had of her. Which could cause a person a great deal of emotional disturbance.

[amerikajin]

I'm sorry you had a nervous breakdown (been there myself, but not for the same reason), and am also glad you and your wife are on your way to a better place together. But I'd also recommend reading some of the articles quoted here in the discussion. "Society" doesn't speak with one voice on this issue, in fact quite the opposite. I think it's a cop-out to justify one's actions with a naive urban myth like the double standard. Even when you were having casual sex, it doesn't sound like you completely separated the act from your emotional state. I doubt anybody really can. Otherwise, you wouldn't have felt cheap or guilty at all. I think "some people in society" have a long way to go. I don't think I do, and I don't think you do either. Maturity comes from thoughtfulness and understanding, not buying in to stereotypes. Some counseling certainly wouldn't hurt (again, been there too). Best wishes for you and your wife... if your marriage is strong enough, you guys can overcome anything.

 

I didn't mean to suggest that society does speak with one voice on this issue, only that some of the general social norms do influence a person's attitudes and gender identity. Exactly how I can prove this to you, statistically or otherwise, is something that's difficult to do, so I'll just have to leave it at anecdotes for now. In my own experience, especially in the U.S., I have seen a double standard with respect to sexual behavior. I've had male friends of mine go out and shag women like there's going to be a ban on sex imposed at midnight tomorrow morning, then turn around and seriously describe their ex-girlfriends as 'sluts' because they go out and hook up with another guy a month or two later. Perhaps you could be dismissive of it and say it was just emotional blather in the wake of post-break up bitterness, but I seriously think the mindset permeates society on many levels, in all kinds of relationships.

 

You see this message reinforced by advertising and music videos and all different forms of social engineering: both parties are supposed to enjoy sex, but women are objects to be desired, yet at the same time, supposed to be ladylike, while men are supposed to covet those objects, to hunt, conquer, dominate their prey. Tell me, which is more offensive: is it more offensive in our society to call a woman a slut or a man a man-whore??? If you seriously say the latter, you're living in a parallel universe, and that alone proves my point.

 

If you want further proof that I had this guy pegged all along, look at what he finally reveals about what he was thinking. He even came out and said it: he felt insecure because he felt she had in some ways surpassed him sexually, just as I said in one of my first responses to the original post. Again, that proves my point: society keeps reinforcing the idea that men are supposed to show their sexuality while women are supposed to restrain it. Is it that way in all circles? No, of course not. Maybe this generalization isn't relevant in your case, and I would have to concede that's entirely possible and judging by your posts, likely. But the generalization does apply across the board.

[shoedevil]

But the generalization does apply across the board.

And the fact remains that you do generalize quite a bit, based upon some "people you've met". It's a quality you share with alpha(boy)male. I think that for every example of male chauvinism in popular culture (James Bond), we can probably find a female equivalent (Sex & the City). But I don’t think most people living in the real world pattern their behavior after silly fictional characters. In regards to your guy friends who sleep around and then ridicule their ex-girlfriends for doing the same thing, perhaps their bitterness over breaking-up is the cause? And do you know whether their ex-girlfriends aren’t saying the same things about them? How is this proof positive of a vast double standard?

 

What I base my beliefs on are science and statistics, opinion surveys and sociological research, not anecdotes and hearsay. I've cited a few of them. For the most part, they conclude the following:

 

1. A majority of people (men & women) believe a vast sexual double standard exists in society.

2. A majority of people (men & women) deny using a sexual double standard themselves. They say they use a single standard when choosing partners.

3. A majority of people (men & women) believe that both men & women who sleep around are unattractive.

4. Both men & women report similar numbers of sexual partners and similar types of sexual behavior, when surveys are conducted randomly & anonymously.

 

It’s what a great many people say they believe, and they happen to be a part of “society.” It's interesting that 1. seems to be contradicted by 2-4. You can say everybody always lies about this stuff, and throw out all the research that’s been done. So then what do you base your belief on? Whatever the hell you want, I guess…

 

blind_otter, of whom I have infinite respect for, often points out “retroactive jealousy” in these kinds of situations. It’s a very interesting theory, and very well might apply to the OP’s situation. He's trying to improve himself and his marriage, and I don't know how that's evidence of a double standard. But here are a few other psychological concepts that I think apply to some people in this discussion (feel free to Google them):

 

belief perseverance: the persistence of one's held beliefs despite evidence to the contrary.

confirmation bias: a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions.

 

But to your question, I’m offended when anyone (man or woman) is degraded with insulting names, as I’ve been (not for sleeping around, in fact just the opposite). I’m offended by any sexual double standard, if it actually exists. I’m offended by promiscuity, either male or female, and celebration of it in popular culture. I’m also offended by real double standards such as when fathers are denied physical custody of their children 75-80% of the time. But here’s a better question… why all the upset over this sexual double standard if nobody really practices it? Or put another way… what’s the point in arguing over something that doesn’t seem to exist?

[mental_traveller]

I haven't read this entire post. What I find interesting is how men say they want an uninhibited woman, a woman who will try anything, a freak if you will - yet when a woman expresses herself that way she is now labeled a "skank, slut, whore,etc.

 

Yeah I agree, it's ridiculous. I'd much rather marry a woman who acts like a total whore in bed than someone who is prim and proper and has only done it in the missionary position while closing her eyes and praying to Jesus. I mean most of the threads here are about guys not getting enough sex - the moment some woman comes along who actually loves sex and talking dirty, they freak out! It's a ridiculous double standard.

 

However, I'm happy so many men think like that. They get lumped with the frigid "good girls" whilst guys like me get to land the pervert chicks.

[mental_traveller]

If you guys are up for it I’d like you to try a little test and see how this works for you. Try to think of something that would really bother you that your partner would do or was an act very sluty (man or woman) and hard for you to accept your partner doing. Now you just found out he or she just did it last weekend. What are you feeling right now.....close your eyes and think about it. Now let that sit for a minute.

 

 

 

 

 

Now your partner just came back to and said, I was just kidding. It did happen but it happened way before I was with you and then laughs it off. He or she states that it was way in his or her past so it's no big deal and it shouldn’t bother you. Do you still feel any of those feeling you had before? To have some of those feelings somewhat is human. To understand them takes effort and deep thinking. To accept them takes time I think. If it doesn’t then I’d question if you really care or are maybe a little out of touch with your feelings.

 

I’ll leave you with that. Have a good weekend and I look forward to reading all these. It'll surely take me a while. Wow!

 

Hmm, I can't think of anything slutty that I would find it hard to accept my partner doing, except for cheating - which obviously would not apply before I was going out with her. I guess I just don't suffer from stupid irrational jealousies.

[James8888]

Hmm, I can't think of anything slutty that I would find it hard to accept my partner doing, except for cheating - which obviously would not apply before I was going out with her. I guess I just don't suffer from stupid irrational jealousies.

 

You’re a lucky guy that you can be that free with your thinking. I really envy that. I, on the other hand, I am not so much, but thought that I was. I guess you never really know yourself in a situation until that situation happens. Were my reactions in this case irrational? Oh yes. Were they real though, oh yes. But, I’m trying and we’re working through this.

 

Now, on to the latest update. Things were all going very well and I had this in a good place in my mind. Then my wife came home from work the other day really depressed. With all this going on with me it brought out a lot of repressed memories and emotions for her. I felt really bad for her. She had a lot of feelings of disgust and disappointment in herself over the incident. She also had a lot of other crap going on at the time (ending a 4-year relationship, etc.) So, a lot of that surfaced and came out. I consoled her and counseled her best I could. She cried it out and I thought it was all good.

 

One problem though, you shouldn’t counsel anyone too close to you…especially in this instance. This talk brought a lot back out for me and started me going again somewhat. What surfaced was that she really did kind of want this 3-way to happen (at least that night in a drunken state). Later, she did have all the regret though and did go to therapy. So, of course I had a bad night the next night and a lot of this irrational crap resurfaced. OK, you called it Doupe and Walk. I’ll give you that. But, we made up after a long night.

 

Today, she couldn’t even work and had to come home and pour it out again. And, she was getting kind of pissed at me (rightly so). So, we had it out for a while and then decided how stupid this is and how it’s really affecting us. We’re still agreeing to talk it out but I’m a little hesitant to talk to her because it upsets her so. We had great sex (which is usually part of our make-up ritual). Hey, what can I say? Make-up sex is great. Anyway, she bought me flowers and a really nice card that poured her heart out too. Yes, she bought me flowers….but I’m OK with that.

 

So, the saga goes on. We’re getting through this but I think there will be little bumps along the way. What are you gonna do? So there it is. You guys asked for the update. I’ll keep you posted.

 

James

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