IngenueMisnomer Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 My name means I can't give him up. at least not yet, and he can't give me up. We tried for more than a year. Don't feel sorry for me. I am not living a charade, just my life. Yes, I am special. Thanks for pointing it out. And apparently our relationship which is based on love, friendship and honesty (to each other) is different. I could threaten to tell his wife, but he wouldn't believe me. I would never do that and he knows it. I can imagine that it takes a special kind of patience and perseverance to accept those unknowns. Unlike you, I'm not strong enough to endure that. My circumstance is very similar to yours in that there's honesty regarding expectations. It drove me crazy going through each day wondering what's next, so I made the decision to put an end to that by giving a deadline. That way we both know exactly what's going to happen and when. What will happen after that? I don't know, I'll deal with it then. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 So then what you have is a classic cakeman. A man who wants to stay married for security reasons - His home, his lifestyle, his friends, family and children...And then he has you on the side for whatever needs his wife can't fill. NOTHING will change as long as you put up with this. But, as it seems, you are happy and OK with being in this situation. One day you might regret this, feel lonely at some point, wishing you had more...Someone to share your FULL life with, as him with you. You are special and deserve to have a love of your own, not another woman's husband. He's selfish. Oh and if you do ever tell her, watch how fast he retracts all that he said to you to cover his own butt and make it look like you were after him. He'll lie and turn it so it's your fault. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 There are straight out lies, white lies, and lies of omission. The lies of omission are the worst because you truly don't know what you're being misled about, or what you just plain don't know because it's never crossed your mind and he's never told you. Affairs can't exist without some of the above. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Can'tGiveUp Posted November 19, 2006 Author Share Posted November 19, 2006 I can imagine that it takes a special kind of patience and perseverance to accept those unknowns. Unlike you, I'm not strong enough to endure that. My circumstance is very similar to yours in that there's honesty regarding expectations. It drove me crazy going through each day wondering what's next, so I made the decision to put an end to that by giving a deadline. That way we both know exactly what's going to happen and when. What will happen after that? I don't know, I'll deal with it then. I have no doubt that I will be in the same spot you are in. It won't be enough for me and I will have to end it. Right now, the pain of being a part of his life is less than the pain of not being a part of it. I certainly have my insecurities and by no means is it easy. And it is not easy for him either. But I would rather know where his head is at than be fed a line of bull about it lasting forever. Good luck when your deadline hits...I know you will find support here when it does end... Link to post Share on other sites
BUTAFLY Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 A man who wants to stay married for security reasons - His home, his lifestyle, his friends, family and children...And then he has you on the side for whatever needs his wife can't fill. You are special and deserve to have a love of your own, not another woman's husband. He's selfish. . It can't imagine what it would feel like knowing your husband sticks around for the above reasons. Its gotta be really rough on the bs, knowing that he is their for convience and comfort and not romantic love. I wonder how bs do it. An ow can get up brush herself off and leave but the wife(I say wife because we all seem to be women here) is stuck. I wonder what they tell themselves to make the situation better. Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 I wonder what they tell themselves to make the situation better. They stay for the same reason MM stays. They don't have romantic love (not all the time, at least if the MM is diverting it to an OW) but what they do have: 1. Security 2. Comfort 3. Family legacy 4. Companionship for life 5. Home 6. Vacations 7. Holidays 8. Parenting partners, raising children together 9. A warm body to cuddle next to in bed 10. Family connection 11. Family events 12. Chance at reconcilation ... and so on. Sometimes a BW will weigh what she does have against what she doesn't and find the situation tolerable enough to fight for and stay with. H and W drift away from romantic bonds and more toward family bonds. Romantic love comes and goes regardless of whether or not affairs happen, but all the other stuff is of a more permanent and enduring nature, which is generally enough to make them (and MM) stay married even when an affair does happen. Romantic love often isn't enough in and of itself to build a life around - which is why romantic affairs end and marriages endure. Usually, anyway. When/If the marriage ends, I expect all the above is much harder to let go of than the romantic part. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 When/If the marriage ends, I expect all the above is much harder to let go of than the romantic part. And that is why most MM don't leave their lives. Too hard to start all over again. Link to post Share on other sites
Jane Doe Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 There are straight out lies, white lies, and lies of omission. The lies of omission are the worst because you truly don't know what you're being misled about, or what you just plain don't know because it's never crossed your mind and he's never told you. Affairs can't exist without some of the above. Absolutely. We've all been lied to by the people in our lives. I don't care if it's a MM, a best friend, or Grandma. Everyone has lied to us at some point. I personally don't believe there's any such thing as absolute honesty. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 By definition a relationship is: a state of connectedness between people. Perhaps we don't meet your definition of a relationship, but we have a very honest and real one, albeit secretive. And if his marriage ends it has to be for him, not me. Since you have no knowledge of my life, you cannot say whether this relationship is worthwhile for me or not. And again, the question was whether every other MM lies to the OW. Since I am apparently an anomaly, I will leave this board again as I do not wish to get into a discussion on the morals of affairs nor specifics on my relationship. First....everyone lies, so I quess the question is is how do we determine the extent of the lies....are we living a lie? Concerning relationships, what is the foundation of that relationship? Is it founded on lies and deception? Yes, all MM lie to the OW and everyone around them. Many are shocked as the lie is discovered, as if they have never told a lie or have done anything wrong in their own lives ever ....this is self righteousness. This is the second time in this forum I have read about one not wanting to discuss or deal with morals. Morals are a part of life, we make "moral" choices of right and wrong every minute of everyday. We don't make the right choices all of the time. So far I have seen no one condemned concerning not so good choices, they are being told the truth.....hummm maybe truth is love. Don't justify what is wrong....change it Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Don't justify what is wrong....change it I think that this mindset is where the problem is...OW/OM come here for support, a place named the OM/OW forum so that they can hear from others in a similar situation or those that have lived through it and want to help others... Instead when we come here, we are constantly having to defend ourselves by judgemental people and rarely are able to discuss things w/ others in our same situation without having to feel like we are on alert mode... We aren't here for a morals debate, we're here to get feedback from others like us...not have someone be rude and nasty to us like a very rude thread that was posted and then removed last night from this very forum... I am not saying that the other side shouldn't be heard or that everyone has to agree... But I feel no need to justify my R to anyone here...an explanation differs from a justification...and I find it funny that alot BS as of late feel the need to push their views on us as if we'll suddenly "see the light" and end our R...Respectfully, we'll change it if and when we feel like it... Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I think that this mindset is where the problem is...OW/OM come here for support, a place named the OM/OW forum so that they can hear from others in a similar situation or those that have lived through it and want to help others... Instead when we come here, we are constantly having to defend ourselves by judgemental people and rarely are able to discuss things w/ others in our same situation without having to feel like we are on alert mode... We aren't here for a morals debate, we're here to get feedback from others like us...not have someone be rude and nasty to us like a very rude thread that was posted and then removed last night from this very forum... I am not saying that the other side shouldn't be heard or that everyone has to agree... But I feel no need to justify my R to anyone here...an explanation differs from a justification...and I find it funny that alot BS as of late feel the need to push their views on us as if we'll suddenly "see the light" and end our R...Respectfully, we'll change it if and when we feel like it... The difficulty is that this is an emotional topic. Emotional because there are those of us who have become the collateral damage to your relationships. I'm certainly not saying that only the OW is guilty. The MM is the most guilty party. To use an example, a hooker is less guilty than a John. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Absolutely. We've all been lied to by the people in our lives. I don't care if it's a MM, a best friend, or Grandma. Everyone has lied to us at some point. I personally don't believe there's any such thing as absolute honesty. Boy do I hate it when I am lied to by Grandma. Grrrrrrr! Couldn't resist.. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 The difficulty is that this is an emotional topic. Emotional because there are those of us who have become the collateral damage to your relationships. I'm certainly not saying that only the OW is guilty. The MM is the most guilty party. To use an example, a hooker is less guilty than a John. This is also an emotional topic for us...We are not your H OW...since you can't take it out on her, you're out taking it out on us... I have done NOTHING to you and you have equated me to a hooker...You don't even know me... This is what my point is...you come to our forum and namecall...if it's so emotional and you can't handle to hear about the one causing the "collateral damage" in your opinion, maybe you should stay in the infidelity forum... Alot of BS are respectful and I appreciate their feedback...but if you're just going to be rude and disrespectful, we don't need that here... Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 This is also an emotional topic for us...We are not your H OW...since you can't take it out on her, you're out taking it out on us... I have done NOTHING to you and you have equated me to a hooker...You don't even know me... ...but if you're just going to be rude and disrespectful, we don't need that here... I agree with the above. Name calling is not going to make any of us feel any better. Especially when we do it over the internet. I especially cringe at the hooker comment. I hope it wasn't directed towards the OWs here, but was a general analogy. That is just cruel. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 This is also an emotional topic for us...We are not your H OW...since you can't take it out on her, you're out taking it out on us... I have done NOTHING to you and you have equated me to a hooker...You don't even know me... This is what my point is...you come to our forum and namecall...if it's so emotional and you can't handle to hear about the one causing the "collateral damage" in your opinion, maybe you should stay in the infidelity forum... Alot of BS are respectful and I appreciate their feedback...but if you're just going to be rude and disrespectful, we don't need that here... No, you're not the OW in my situation but there's no denying that you're in a triangular relationship with only one innocent party. That I was dragged into a triangle against my will makes me want to encourage others to not take part in one. Ummm...I recall using an analogy. If you want to apply it to yourself, there isn't much I can do about it. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 No, you're not the OW in my situation but there's no denying that you're in a triangular relationship with only one innocent party. That I was dragged into a triangle against my will makes me want to encourage others to not take part in one. Ummm...I recall using an analogy. If you want to apply it to yourself, there isn't much I can do about it. Analogies are used explicitly for the task of comparing things...that is their definition...I am not ignorant...You implied that OW in general are hookers by your analogy...Do you deny that? Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Analogies are used explicitly for the task of comparing things...that is their definition...I am not ignorant...You implied that OW in general are hookers by your analogy...Do you deny that? Ummm...I think you're being overly sensitive. One thing I would like to express and I will be blunt with you. If you think that the comments in this thread are bad, what do you think you will experience if the s/o, wife, g/f finds out? I can guarantee you it will be 100 times worse than this. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Ummm...I think you're being overly sensitive. One thing I would like to express and I will be blunt with you. If you think that the comments in this thread are bad, what do you think you will experience if the s/o, wife, g/f finds out? I can guarantee you it will be 100 times worse than this. It's quite frankly none of your business...this forum is not one for namecalling...it's for support, encouragment and discussion...if you're not going to be respectful and force your own agenda, go elsewhere... Link to post Share on other sites
tinktronik Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 They stay for the same reason MM stays. They don't have romantic love (not all the time, at least if the MM is diverting it to an OW) but what they do have: 1. Security 2. Comfort 3. Family legacy 4. Companionship for life 5. Home 6. Vacations 7. Holidays 8. Parenting partners, raising children together 9. A warm body to cuddle next to in bed 10. Family connection 11. Family events 12. Chance at reconcilation ... and so on. Sometimes a BW will weigh what she does have against what she doesn't and find the situation tolerable enough to fight for and stay with. H and W drift away from romantic bonds and more toward family bonds. Romantic love comes and goes regardless of whether or not affairs happen, but all the other stuff is of a more permanent and enduring nature, which is generally enough to make them (and MM) stay married even when an affair does happen. Romantic love often isn't enough in and of itself to build a life around - which is why romantic affairs end and marriages endure. Usually, anyway. When/If the marriage ends, I expect all the above is much harder to let go of than the romantic part. Very good post , LB . This is all very true . Romantic love wanes back and forth through any relationship , even ones that stay faithfull ; the things you listed are much of what keeps any relationship going. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 It's quite frankly none of your business...this forum is not one for namecalling...it's for support, encouragment and discussion...if you're not going to be respectful and force your own agenda, go elsewhere... Ma'am respectfully speaking, I did not call you a name, I used an analogy. If you want to apply it to yourself, I can't do anything about it. If you want to be sensitive about it, I can't do anything about it. You didn't answer my question about when the W finds out about it. Are you not concerned about it or will you wait to cross that bridge when you get there? Do you feel that your R is worth every minute, at the expense of innocent parties (W and possibly kids)? I am interested in discussing this with you. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Ma'am respectfully speaking, I did not call you a name, I used an analogy. If you want to apply it to yourself, I can't do anything about it. If you want to be sensitive about it, I can't do anything about it. You didn't answer my question about when the W finds out about it. Are you not concerned about it or will you wait to cross that bridge when you get there? Do you feel that your R is worth every minute, at the expense of innocent parties (W and possibly kids)? I am interested in discussing this with you. I'm sure you are interested in discussing it with me and I did answer your question: IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS period, end of story... Link to post Share on other sites
tinktronik Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Is there any way we can all try to keep this thread rational .Sometimes when I read an OW and BS talking on here it's like a martian and elephant speaking , and they both think the other is being offensive even though they can not quite seem to understand what the other is saying .It just gets more and more heated .So , just for this one time . Could we keep it civil? Please. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I'm sure you are interested in discussing it with me and I did answer your question: IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS period, end of story... Okay, then our discussion is over. We will both continue expressing our opinions from opposite sides. Since you're being sensitive, allow me to be sensitive. Don't post this kind of offensive comment again. It is an insult to the other party because you and the MM are already driving the situation. Respectfully, we'll change it if and when we feel like it... Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Is there any way we can all try to keep this thread rational .Sometimes when I read an OW and BS talking on here it's like a martian and elephant speaking , and they both think the other is being offensive even though they can not quite seem to understand what the other is saying .It just gets more and more heated .So , just for this one time . Could we keep it civil? Please. Hey which one is the elephant: BW or OW? Cause there is nothing worst than an angry elephant. Sorry, too much Comedy Central this weekend.....LOL. Link to post Share on other sites
tinktronik Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Hey which one is the elephant: BW or OW? Cause there is nothing worst than an angry elephant. Sorry, too much Comedy Central this weekend.....LOL. For heavens sakes, no one think I was calling anyone a name here . I was however equating elephants and martians to OW and BS . Link to post Share on other sites
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