Liars??

[NoIDidn't]

I think that it is entirely possible that his version of not sleeping with her is true in his eyes. But not entirely accurate. Why?

 

When I had my last baby, I did the same thing. But I had a perfectly valid excuse. I was breastfeeding (on demand), and that puts a HUGE damper on one's libido. My H felt sexually replaced by the baby. But I felt emotionally neglected and in turn pushed him away as well. (researchers say this is a prime time for an A).

 

So his interpretation may not be a lie to him, but that doesn't make it the truth. Resentment was not going to make me give up my nice comfy king-sized bed for ANYBODY!!!! LOL!!!!

[NearlyThere]

nearlythere why would you ever stay with someone for four long years without touching? Just seems crazy to me. I can not imagine sleeping next to someone that i could not stand to touch.

 

Sorry I think snoring together is pretty intimate and i would not want that kind of intimacy with someone i couldn't stand.

 

I agree, I dont know how I did it for 4 years, but I did it because no matter what you might think of me as the OW, I am a genuinely nice person, and I didnt want to hurt him, I was still kind and did caring things and even though we are now no longer together and he still lives in the same house, although in a different room, I am still a kind person to him, because during the first few years it was good. I had to laugh about the snoring thing though, , dont know which was worse his or mine after too much wine.

[norajane]

Um, excuse me if this has already been said, but surely the point of lies is that you don't know if you're being lied to or not? Therefore, it follows that it's impossible to know if the MM is honest with you.

 

I believe the OP's point is that because he doesn't lie to her about planning to leave his wife someday, and they are open and honest about their situation, that he doesn't lie to her about anything. And she's wondering if anyone else is in an affair with a MM who doesn't lie to her, or if she's the only one who is in a relationship where MM isn't lying.

 

And I think a lot of people - including me - have replied in one way or another, no, he's lying to you, but you just don't see it.

[whichwayisup]

The lie is - The actual relationship between OW and MM. The feelings may be real and felt by both, but the affair IS the big lie.

[THX2000]

I constantly read about how MM is lying to both OW and W. And of course, unless they have an amazingly open M, he is lying to W.

 

MM doesn't lie to me. We have been very open from the beginning. Yes, this was a deliberately started A. We had numerous conversations before we entered into a PA. He has never promised to leave W. I want him to leave her. End of discussion, we don't talk about it anymore.

 

Our discussions do include how we are feeling about what is happening, we talk about the guilt we feel and the pain that will hopefully only affect us. We are honest with each other and we do live in the present only. We will worry about the future when it comes.

 

But we don't lie to each other. Am I the only one? Do all the other MMs spin tales for the future? Or is it just others who need to believe that he lies to everyone?

 

You sound an awful lot like my ex. I found e-mails between her and her OM saying all the same **** you are saying....as long as we are honest with each other....blah blah blah. If you need to hide the relationship then I see no honesty (or honour) in that. The only person you are kidding is yourself.

[frannie]

Has he set a date for separation/divorce yet?

 

Early next year.

 

It will be separation. Divorce will take another 2 years.

[frannie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frannie

Currently I am hearing:

 

"I'm past caring about her, because of this resentment that's built up inside me over years of being sexually and emotionally rejected by her. Our relationship is finished and I have no desire to rekindle anything with her. Yes, we sleep in the same bed but we don't have sex. I no longer have a desire to sleep with her; it's hard to care when someone pushes you away at every turn. I love my children and I hate the thought of living in a separate house to them, but I can no longer base my life on the joy I get from tucking them up in bed at night. I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you, not her. I know that the only way that can happen is if I leave her, and get my own place, and sort out access with the children."

 

Frannie,

 

I am sorry, but this doesn't give you a right to jugde his W or his M. People in As, male or female, always re-write history to fit their actions. Doesn't make it so until he moves out and starts D procedures.

 

In another post you said the M is based on lies. Not true, my dear. Everyone around them knows that they are M. Their M is not a secret. His A with you is. And it is based on whatever lies he chooses to use to have it at the time.

 

He may very well mean every word that he says to you, when his W is not around. Doesn't make it true until he says it to HER as well.

 

I am no judge of his marriage. That's entirely for him to assess, and he's decided that he's doesn't want to stay in it. We don't really talk about his marriage or his wife. I don't want to know, and he doesn't feel comfortable discussing it.

 

I think that the way a relationship between WS and BS is affected by lies and deception is quite different to the way an A is 'based on lies'. The first is a sure and certain case of one person lying to the other: in the latter, it's debatable whether there are lies between the individuals concerned (OW and MM).

 

Personally (and this really is only personal opinion), I would rather be an OW in the know (about his having a W) than a W in the dark (about his having an OW), despite the relative legal or moral position. I can't know (nor can anyone here) whether or to what extent he is lying to me, or what would be the outcome if the A were to be discovered before he'd separated from his wife.

 

I'm not sure where the question of secrecy comes into it as being a negative for me. I think the fact it's a secret from her puts his W into the disadvantageous position. But I realise that people are arguing from the point of view that if he's discovered he'll end it with me.

 

I don't believe that's the case.

[noforgiveness]

Early next year.

 

It will be separation. Divorce will take another 2 years.

 

and does his wife know this?

Why not now? What is the purpose of waiting a few months?

[frannie]

I love the whole idea of yes we sleep in the same bed but do not have sex.

 

Yea right? You really believe they SLEEP together but never touch? If he has that much resentent built up why would he go to seep next to her and wake up next to her everyday? Not quite the way any sane person would want to end and start the day. Next to someone they hate. He's feeding you a line. Sorry.

 

There was no mention in my post of 'hate', only resentment and a feeling that he no longer wanted to make any advances.

 

And yes, I can believe people sleep in the same bed and never have sex. I've done it myself for many years. It's by no means unusual in a LTR.

 

Why would one continue with a relationship that had got to that point..? Because it's easier than taking steps to put it right, or leaving. Because there are other things keeping one living there.

[Ripples]

I believe the OP's point is that because he doesn't lie to her about planning to leave his wife someday, and they are open and honest about their situation, that he doesn't lie to her about anything. And she's wondering if anyone else is in an affair with a MM who doesn't lie to her, or if she's the only one who is in a relationship where MM isn't lying.

 

And I think a lot of people - including me - have replied in one way or another, no, he's lying to you, but you just don't see it.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't make my point very well.

 

The bit in bold I have a problem with. I was really meaning to say that she has no way of knowing what he is lying to her about, even if he does tell her he's not going to leave his wife.

 

I think maybe I'm a little too much into semantics

[frannie]

nearlythere why would you ever stay with someone for four long years without touching? Just seems crazy to me. I can not imagine sleeping next to someone that i could not stand to touch.

 

Sorry I think snoring together is pretty intimate and i would not want that kind of intimacy with someone i couldn't stand.

 

I wrote my last reply before I saw nearlythere's response to the 'relationship without sex' question.

 

I myself was in a LTR (9 years) of which the latter 5 were sexless. Why did I stay? Habit mainly, and nowhere else in particular to go. Eventually I came to resent him, but that wasn't because of the lack of sex but other reasons (his interfering family, mostly). We had just grown apart and into a 'companionship' situation. I eventually ended it because it had become frustrating and I wanted to move in a different direction with my life.

 

I have to say, however, that had there been children involved, and my choice was not (as a woman usually has) to kick him out and continue more or less the same but without him but to have to leave them behind... I would probably still be there.

 

Which is why I can understand what's been happening in my MM's mind.

 

Besides which, as nearlythere said in her earlier response to the 'how do you know they don't have sex' question. Really, if you're experienced enough with sex, you can tell in particular ways. I've been seeing my MM for quite a while now, and I've got to learn about his body. We've spent weeks on end together, and I know how he will be, physically, depending on how long it's been since we last had sex.

[frannie]

and does his wife know this?

Why not now? What is the purpose of waiting a few months?

 

The purpose is the holidays. I know many people will say that that's not what they would do in that position, but it's what he wants to do, and that's something I agree with.

 

I can't see the benefit in upsetting an entire family at this time of year.

 

His choice.

[noforgiveness]

The purpose is the holidays. I know many people will say that that's not what they would do in that position, but it's what he wants to do, and that's something I agree with.

 

I can't see the benefit in upsetting an entire family at this time of year.

 

His choice.

 

then there will always be something. A holiday, an anniversary, a kid birthday, a sporting event whatever. I doubt he's leaving.

[frannie]

then there will always be something. A holiday, an anniversary, a kid birthday, a sporting event whatever. I doubt he's leaving.

 

I know, I've read those opinions before.

[noforgiveness]

I know, I've read those opinions before.

 

 

why don't you give him a set date to leave by when you won't wait any longer?

[norajane]

I'm sorry, I didn't make my point very well.

 

The bit in bold I have a problem with. I was really meaning to say that she has no way of knowing what he is lying to her about, even if he does tell her he's not going to leave his wife.

 

I think maybe I'm a little too much into semantics

 

No, you're correct. However, SHE believes because he doesn't lie to her about leaving his wife, he doesn't lie to her about anything.

 

I agree with you - how is she to know whether he is lying about other things, or what he might be lying to her about? Or what truths he might be omitting, which is a different form of lying?

[frannie]

why don't you give him a set date to leave by when you won't wait any longer?

 

What would be the purpose of that?

[noforgiveness]

What would be the purpose of that?

 

your own sanity? To know the truth?

[frannie]

your own sanity? To know the truth?

 

I am sane.

 

The truth about what?

[noforgiveness]

I am sane.

 

The truth about what?

 

 

forget it. Happily live with being told he loves you and he'll leave his wife LATER.

[frannie]

forget it. Happily live with being told he loves you and he'll leave his wife LATER.

 

Thank you.

[herenow]

Forgive me if this has already been said. This MM you speak about is a proven liar. He is obviously a good one because chances are, his wife believes he is truthful to her.

 

A lie doesn't necessarily need to be spoken, it can be an action. This MM's actions are saying that he is lying not only to his W and the OW, but also to himself. I also think that frannie is lying to herself. She really wants to believe this guy and nothing we say will convince her otherwise.

 

So, frannie, all I can say to you is I wish you luck!

[EnigmaXOXO]

We are honest with each other and we do live in the present only. We will worry about the future when it comes.

 

But we don't lie to each other. Am I the only one? Do all the other MMs spin tales for the future?

 

I think it's fair to say that some people are honest about their intentions to never leave their spouses for their affair partner. But that kind of honesty is usually based upon current circumstances and maintaining the status quo. One can never predict with any real certainty what will happen should those honest intentions be met with resistance. (I.E.: the affair being discovered by the spouse)

 

Think about it this way … how honest can we really expect someone to be if they're already in a dishonest situation (???)

 

This MM's actions are saying that he is lying not only to his W and the OW, but also to himself. I also think that frannie is lying to herself.

 

So glad someone pointed this out. Sometimes the most obscure, convincing and painful lies are the ones we try to tell ourselves.

[Can'tGiveUp]

Well, amazing what i missed overnight...

 

Since this is my last post here, for all the ones who can't believe certain things, here we go:

1. yes, I knew he was married.

2. yes, i'm sure he still sleeps with his wife.

3. yes, I have morals but am incapable of living up to them when it comes to him.

4. no, I don't really care about his wife. they have issues and they are not mine to work out.

5. yes, I will support him wholeheartedly when he tries to work on those issues again. I love him enough to do that.

6. no, I won't tell his wife. Not my place to do so.

7. Yes, I will stay with him for now. I am happy with the time I spend with him and for now it is enough.

8. I will head to that other site now where there is no bashing allowed in certain parts of the forums.

 

Oh - and to the original question:

9. yes, we are truthful with each other...and sometimes it really hurts. But its better than being in the dark. Apparently the rest of you need to believe that he lies to everyone (including his boss???!!! WTF?)

 

Best of luck to all. BTW - Infidelity is the forum for BS's to bash OW's.

[stillhere]

CGU, i wish you wouldn't leave............i would give you the link to our other site, but you can't get PM's yet. I am not going to list that site for all to see, and i'm definetely not giving out my email address!!

 

Stick around and post long enough to get PM's, because we could use someone like you, and i know you could use us!!