Liars??

[Trialbyfire]

I don't know that 'children are the first concern' in everything, and especially not if one is pursuing an affair. I don't think anyone goes into an affair believing that one would be caught. I'm sure that it could be argued that a happy parent is a good parent, and certainly an affair can improve the happiness of a married person. I don't think it's is as clear-cut as you suggest.

 

I should point out that the comments I made about leaving 'my children' were purely hypothetical, since I don't have any.

My personal opinion is that it is that clear-cut. The MM either indulge and give into their desires or they shut it down. In reference to an OW, if she didn't know to begin with but continued with the affair once she found out, she has given into her needs and wants. No matter how you look at it, it's about giving in or having the personal strength to walk away. This includes the strength to walk away from any triangular relationship, no matter which of the three parties you are.

 

We've all been tempted in life. There are very clear choices that are made when getting involved in an affair. That people believe they will never be caught is one of my core issues. How selfish is the person indulging in the affair that their only concerns are their own desires? Muddy the waters as much as you want but overall, it is very clear-cut.

[frannie]

My personal opinion is that it is that clear-cut. The MM either indulge and give into their desires or they shut it down. In reference to an OW, if she didn't know to begin with but continued with the affair once she found out, she has given into her needs and wants. No matter how you look at it, it's about giving in or having the personal strength to walk away. This includes the strength to walk away from any triangular relationship, no matter which of the three parties you are.

 

We've all been tempted in life. There are very clear choices that are made when getting involved in an affair. That people believe they will never be caught is one of my core issues. How selfish is the person indulging in the affair that their only concerns are their own desires? Muddy the waters as much as you want but overall, it is very clear-cut.

 

You talk about "their only concern" being their own desires. I talked about children not coming first in everything. To my mind it is possible to have both concern for oneself as well as one's children. It's not an either-or thing as far as I can see.

[Trialbyfire]

You talk about "their only concern" being their own desires. I talked about children not coming first in everything. To my mind it is possible to have both concern for oneself as well as one's children. It's not an either-or thing as far as I can see.

The impression that I'm getting is that you're looking for some form of justification for the actions of either a MM, MW, OW, OM. For myself, it all comes down to personal responsibility and acceptance of cause and effect. Control and decisions are made by both the M or the O. Once those decisions are made, it's time to live with the repercussions and consequences.

[frannie]

The impression that I'm getting is that you're looking for some form of justification for the actions of either a MM, MW, OW, OM. For myself, it all comes down to personal responsibility and acceptance of cause and effect. Control and decisions are made by both the M or the O. Once those decisions are made, it's time to live with the repercussions and consequences.

 

No, I'm not looking for any justification for anything.

 

I'm just disagreeing with your opinion.

[socialight]

have you ever considered the absolute absurdity of the idea that a married man is having an affair with you and he is not lying? By definition, an affair is an act of total selfishness and deception.

[Guest]

have you ever considered the absolute absurdity of the idea that a married man is having an affair with you and he is not lying? By definition, an affair is an act of total selfishness and deception.

 

I've checked several dictionaries and I haven't found this definition yet. what most of them say is it is a "secret sexual relationship". One went further and said "between 2 people not married to each other" and one added "usually of a limited duration".

 

Would love to know what dictionary your definition came from???

[socialight]

Um, guest, think about this for a minute. When you get married you take a vow to stay with that person. Not only has this guy broken this vow, he is hiding it from his wife. Do you not consider that lying? How far are you willing to go to rationalize this conduct? Will you be so willing to stretch the justification of these actions when he starts another affair with a 3rd woman once you are primary?

[pureinheart]

have you ever considered the absolute absurdity of the idea that a married man is having an affair with you and he is not lying? By definition, an affair is an act of total selfishness and deception.

 

 

 

Good definition!

[whichwayisup]

"secret sexual relationship".

 

Means affair. Something that must be hidden by choice.

 

No dictionary necessary...It's just a no-brainer.

[Guest]

Actually, I was okay with the deception part...but none of the definitions say anything about selfishness - total or not.

 

You were very definitive by stating it as a definition rather than your personal opinion. In fact selfishness is more of a motivation for the affair and I don't believe in sweeping generalizations like that.

 

And I am not justifying anything...no need to, as I have never been involved in an affair nor likely to be.

[pureinheart]

Originally Posted by Trialbyfire

My personal opinion is that it is that clear-cut. The MM either indulge and give into their desires or they shut it down. In reference to an OW, if she didn't know to begin with but continued with the affair once she found out, she has given into her needs and wants. No matter how you look at it, it's about giving in or having the personal strength to walk away. This includes the strength to walk away from any triangular relationship, no matter which of the three parties you are.

 

We've all been tempted in life. There are very clear choices that are made when getting involved in an affair. That people believe they will never be caught is one of my core issues. How selfish is the person indulging in the affair that their only concerns are their own desires? Muddy the waters as much as you want but overall, it is very clear-cut. End Quote

 

 

Having been on both sides of this fence, understanding the feelings of the BS, but the OW issues I was clueless. These types of relationships do nothing but destroy....as a little girl I remember I loved fairy tales, happy endings and carried that throughout my life, it is what got me through some of the most difficult times, but all of that was stolen when I got into this OW mess.

 

Having already started the process of recovery before posting and reading in this forum, it is posts such as this that reinforced the truth I had somehow forgotten. Many others posts I include in this fight to regain my life and belief system, thanks to all of you.

 

Going from BS to OW sure was a shock.....my now ex had cheated many times in a short period of time, it left me feeling unwanted. The MM chased me before and after my D and I fell for it...now I understand how all of this happened.

 

Never being one who gave much thought about what others think about me, having been contraversial all of my life for one cause or the other, this OW thing, I mean what was I fighting for??????

 

I hated myself for a very long time, and now like who I am and what I'm becoming, the self respect is back. All of my life have gone back and forth and thanks to hitting this bottom, thinking I'm "scared straight".

 

This forum and truth that I hadn't heard before has been an essential in putting things in order....am so very grateful

[Trialbyfire]

Having been on both sides of this fence, understanding the feelings of the BS, but the OW issues I was clueless. These types of relationships do nothing but destroy....as a little girl I remember I loved fairy tales, happy endings and carried that throughout my life, it is what got me through some of the most difficult times, but all of that was stolen when I got into this OW mess.

 

Having already started the process of recovery before posting and reading in this forum, it is posts such as this that reinforced the truth I had somehow forgotten. Many others posts I include in this fight to regain my life and belief system, thanks to all of you.

 

Going from BS to OW sure was a shock.....my now ex had cheated many times in a short period of time, it left me feeling unwanted. The MM chased me before and after my D and I fell for it...now I understand how all of this happened.

 

Never being one who gave much thought about what others think about me, having been contraversial all of my life for one cause or the other, this OW thing, I mean what was I fighting for??????

 

I hated myself for a very long time, and now like who I am and what I'm becoming, the self respect is back. All of my life have gone back and forth and thanks to hitting this bottom, thinking I'm "scared straight".

 

This forum and truth that I hadn't heard before has been an essential in putting things in order....am so very grateful

 

*hugs*

 

Wear that self-respect like a badge of honour. You've earned it.

[pureinheart]

Thanks "T"....you put a real big smile on my face!!!!!!!

[frannie]

have you ever considered the absolute absurdity of the idea that a married man is having an affair with you and he is not lying? By definition, an affair is an act of total selfishness and deception.

 

Of course someone having an affair is being deceptive, keeping something hidden, and almost certainly lying (even if it's simply by omission, I would say that it's enough of a lie by omission to count as the biggest lie anyone could tell!!)

 

So, of course there is a lie, but it's not being told to the OW/OM, but to the BS. That's certain.

 

What is not certain in any particular case is whether the OW/OM is being lied to in any respect.

[socialight]

well, he must be lying to someone. And if you know he is capable of that, how can one have total confidence in what he says, no matter what it is, or to whom he says it? It's like saying you're getting a fair deal from a car thief you trust.

[PoshPrincess]

I constantly read about how MM is lying to both OW and W. And of course' date=' unless they have an amazingly open M, he is lying to W.[/i']

 

MM doesn't lie to me. We have been very open from the beginning. Yes, this was a deliberately started A. We had numerous conversations before we entered into a PA. He has never promised to leave W. I want him to leave her. End of discussion, we don't talk about it anymore.

 

Our discussions do include how we are feeling about what is happening, we talk about the guilt we feel and the pain that will hopefully only affect us. We are honest with each other and we do live in the present only. We will worry about the future when it comes.

 

But we don't lie to each other. Am I the only one? Do all the other MMs spin tales for the future? Or is it just others who need to believe that he lies to everyone?

 

Going back to the initial question, I think it depends what the A is based on in the first place. In my early 20s I had an A with married. He never lied to me, always told me he loved his wife, was never going to leave, etc and I was more than happy about that (he was A LOT older so it never would've worked on that level!) So, at 34 I get myself involved with another MM after the break up of my LTR. I initially think it will be a PA but I couldn't have been more wrong. It was much more of an emotional affair, we ended up falling in love big time, blah blah blah......

 

As seems to be the case with other As on this site, I don't feel my MM lied to me (well, not about intending to leave anyway - I'm sure there were other lies!); I feel he genuinely believed himself that he would leave his W and be with me. Unfortunately I don't think he realised how emotionally difficult that would be. Plus, I don't think he banked on his W finding out about us before it happened. That obviiusly made things a lot more complicated!

 

So, in answer to the original question, yes there are MMs out there who don't lie to their OW, although I have to say he MAY be lying about certain other things. I am not saying this to hurt you; just to make you aware. I think they sometimes lie to protect us too, not just for their own means.

[frannie]

well, he must be lying to someone. And if you know he is capable of that, how can one have total confidence in what he says, no matter what it is, or to whom he says it? It's like saying you're getting a fair deal from a car thief you trust.

 

Everyone is capable of lying, and most people do in one area of their life or another.

 

I would ask: is there a reason for lying..? Sometimes there is (not necessarily a justification, but a reason), and sometimes there isn't. Which is why I tend to think... my MM has no reason to lie to me, why would he..? What about..? Conversely, he has a huge, fat reason to by lying to his W about me.

 

Of course there are some people who just can't help lying, and see it as some sort of recreational activity, but I'm going to discount them for the sake of this argument

[frannie]

 

So, in answer to the original question, yes there are MMs out there who don't lie to their OW, although I have to say he MAY be lying about certain other things. I am not saying this to hurt you; just to make you aware. I think they sometimes lie to protect us too, not just for their own means.

 

I agree, that sometimes they may lie because they think they're protecting us. I suspect my MM of that at times... but... I'm willing to accept that. I've done the same myself in the past, and it's not out of wanting to deceive... that's the issue (for me).

[socialight]

Everyone is capable of lying, and most people do in one area of their life or another.

 

 

Oh geeze, you didn't just play the "everyone does it card did you"?

 

Every is capable of lying, just like everyone is capable of murder. The question is, do you have a track record of it or not? This guy does. Therefor for one to believe what he says is foolish at best, because his actions are inherently dishonest.

 

If his wife doesn't know, then the guy can't be trusted. Period.

[frannie]

Everyone is capable of lying, and most people do in one area of their life or another.

 

 

Oh geeze, you didn't just play the "everyone does it card did you"?

 

Every is capable of lying, just like everyone is capable of murder. The question is, do you have a track record of it or not? This guy does. Therefor for one to believe what he says is foolish at best, because his actions are inherently dishonest.

 

If his wife doesn't know, then the guy can't be trusted. Period.

 

Murder is a crime, and even murderers don't murder everyone (usually).

 

I don't see the logic in taking one example of a behaviour and applying it in a blanket sense all over the place. Someone lies in one area of their life, doesn't mean they'll lie in another area, or in another circumstance.

 

Of course you're free to believe what you like, but that's not the way I think.