Liars??

[GreenEyedLady]

Okay, then our discussion is over. We will both continue expressing our opinions from opposite sides.

 

Since you're being sensitive, allow me to be sensitive. Don't post this kind of offensive comment again. It is an insult to the other party because you and the MM are already driving the situation.

 

Like I said you don't have to come here...If you make a comment and you don't like the response, you don't have to come to the OW forum...I don't go to the infidelity forum and taunt you...don't come here and harass us...

[NoIDidn't]

For heavens sakes, no one think I was calling anyone a name here . I was however equating elephants and martians to OW and BS .

 

Tink, I thought I was making a funny. Oh well, guess I'll stick to my day job. Oh wait, I lost that a while back. Oh well.

[Trialbyfire]

For heavens sakes, no one think I was calling anyone a name here . I was however equating elephants and martians to OW and BS .

I do walk as heavily as an elephant sometimes but am actually quite slim. Hmmm...it's decided, I want to be the elephant for a number of reasons.

[GreenEyedLady]

For heavens sakes, no one think I was calling anyone a name here . I was however equating elephants and martians to OW and BS .

 

We knew what you meant...but I don't know which is worse an alien or an elephant? I guess I better not ask which is supposed to which...

[pureinheart]

I think that this mindset is where the problem is...OW/OM come here for support, a place named the OM/OW forum so that they can hear from others in a similar situation or those that have lived through it and want to help others...

 

Instead when we come here, we are constantly having to defend ourselves by judgemental people and rarely are able to discuss things w/ others in our same situation without having to feel like we are on alert mode...

 

We aren't here for a morals debate, we're here to get feedback from others like us...not have someone be rude and nasty to us like a very rude thread that was posted and then removed last night from this very forum...

 

I am not saying that the other side shouldn't be heard or that everyone has to agree...

 

But I feel no need to justify my R to anyone here...an explanation differs from a justification...and I find it funny that alot BS as of late feel the need to push their views on us as if we'll suddenly "see the light" and end our R...Respectfully, we'll change it if and when we feel like it...[/quote

 

 

Who has asked you to justify your relationship? Noone has asked you anything. You are a rude individual when someone doesn't agree with you. Ok you do want to stay in what you are in, but possibly there are those that truely want out of their situations.

 

My suggestion to you is that you get professional help and please quit trying to control this forum.

[stillhere]

I don't think she's trying to control this forum. Afterall, she is an OW, and she came here for support.

 

There are others out there who i am sure want to get out of their situation, but if i was new and trying to get out, i guarantee i would not post here because of what this forum has become. This forum for support, has become a forum over run with BS who belittle the OW every chance they get.

 

To each their own, but i for one, am getting real sick of having to defend myself around every corner. I use to feel safe here and that i could share and try to help others...............i saw where that got me!!!

[Trialbyfire]

I will ask one more question in this thread, respectfully of course. Do OW honestly feel that it's ethical and justifiable to be an OW?

[GreenEyedLady]

I think that this mindset is where the problem is...OW/OM come here for support, a place named the OM/OW forum so that they can hear from others in a similar situation or those that have lived through it and want to help others...

 

Instead when we come here, we are constantly having to defend ourselves by judgemental people and rarely are able to discuss things w/ others in our same situation without having to feel like we are on alert mode...

 

We aren't here for a morals debate, we're here to get feedback from others like us...not have someone be rude and nasty to us like a very rude thread that was posted and then removed last night from this very forum...

 

I am not saying that the other side shouldn't be heard or that everyone has to agree...

 

But I feel no need to justify my R to anyone here...an explanation differs from a justification...and I find it funny that alot BS as of late feel the need to push their views on us as if we'll suddenly "see the light" and end our R...Respectfully, we'll change it if and when we feel like it...[/quote

 

 

Who has asked you to justify your relationship? Noone has asked you anything. You are a rude individual when someone doesn't agree with you. Ok you do want to stay in what you are in, but possibly there are those that truely want out of their situations.

 

My suggestion to you is that you get professional help and please quit trying to control this forum.

 

I was replying to another quote...but maybe you didn't read the whole thread...And if I am considered rude by standing my ground and defending OW in contrary to other's beliefs, so be it...

 

Your comment about others wanting out makes no sense... I have never been one that says stay in affair, don't get out, affairs are great...and quite frankly I don't know any OW who would say that anyway...

 

Thank you for your suggestion, I'll take it with a grain of salt...

[bonehead]

But if more BS would try and figure out WHY instead of just bashing the OP.

 

Yes I was an OP. I have also been a BS.

 

Bashing the OP will gain nothing. Asking the OP what they are thinking and feeling will gain you nothing. If it wasnt this OP it would be another.

 

If you want the OP out of the picture TREAT THE CAUSE NOT THE SYMPTOM.

 

Ask yourself a few questions

 

1) What is my spouse getting out of their affair?

 

2) Can I or will I give him what he is getting out of it?

 

3) What could I do to make my marriage affair proof?

 

Yes the OP shares some of the blame for the A but quite often they are being lead on and lied to. They truly believe that their married partner will leave the marriage for them. Want to blame anyone blame the offending spouse.

 

Want to bash someone do it to the offending spouse.

[Trialbyfire]

But if more BS would try and figure out WHY instead of just bashing the OP.

 

Yes I was an OP. I have also been a BS.

 

Bashing the OP will gain nothing. Asking the OP what they are thinking and feeling will gain you nothing. If it wasnt this OP it would be another.

 

If you want the OP out of the picture TREAT THE CAUSE NOT THE SYMPTOM.

 

Ask yourself a few questions

 

1) What is my spouse getting out of their affair?

 

2) Can I or will I give him what he is getting out of it?

 

3) What could I do to make my marriage affair proof?

 

Most of the time an affair doesnt just happen.

 

All valid points. Affairs happen when a man or woman is dissatisfied with some component of his/her relationship and is unwilling to break it off but seeks solace of the missing components elsewhere. Have your cake and eat it too...

[bonehead]

All valid points. Affairs happen when a man or woman is dissatisfied with some component of his/her relationship and is unwilling to break it off but seeks solace of the missing components elsewhere. Have your cake and eat it too...

 

So who is to blame?

[Trialbyfire]

So who is to blame?

The OW makes a conscious decision to remain in a relationship where she is aware that he's a MM. The MM is obviously aware of same. Both are to blame for consciously dragging in someone else into their sordid affair.

 

Best case scenario, the MM is dissatisfied, he should leave. Then he can freely hook up with anyone his heart desires. When he's in a committed relationship, he needs to focus on his commitment, not a third party.

 

If the third party wasn't aware, they would not be posting in this forum.

[pureinheart]

The only thing that a few of us have stated is the truth, no bashing...if you read this entire thread and the one I posted you will see a great deal of sensitivity TWORDS the OW....the rude, bashing comments have come from the OW.

 

May I ask what OW are seeking support for?

 

I have seen valid questions, and a couple of OW seeking support....then there are some that sit and watch ready to attack and it wasn't even their question or them seeking support.

 

People with clear and right thinking would really trip on some of the replies I have seen. Noone has bashed on these OW even when they bashed on them.

 

The distortion is unreal.

[Firefox]

MW have lied to me. Some MW hesistated to tell me the truth. One of them told me that their H was her bro. That was sad, until I ask who it really was then she said the truth.

[Ripples]

Um, excuse me if this has already been said, but surely the point of lies is that you don't know if you're being lied to or not? Therefore, it follows that it's impossible to know if the MM is honest with you.

[frannie]

I'll just point out one reference.

 

Don't get into a huff and leave. I would hope that you want some honest opinions from people about how they feel. You will find that there are always two sides to every story. Just be prepared to take the positive and negative comments without taking them personally.

 

I'm a very upfront person who expresses her opinion. If I were asking for opinions and/or advice, I would want honest opinions. Keep in mind that they are just that, opinions, and everyone has them.

 

The thing about this 'don't take it personally' view is... that if someone asks a general question about affairs, they are looking for a general response (or responses giving examples from other people's experience).

 

If a responder turns the question round to say, ah, but let's look at your affair and see where you're mistaken then that is personal. And of course the OP (or anyone posing a general question) is bound to 'take it personally'.

 

Of course that doesn't mean that one will take offence, or become defensive. But actually, when the comments are negative, undermining, contradicting and accusatory well, is it any wonder?

 

Fair enough if someone has requested comment on their situation I suppose, though what good these 'negative' comments ever do is beyond me - I know others disagree, but that's their perspective, and I think that most of the time this 'advice' and 'other point of view' is more about those making the comments, rather than those being put under scrutiny.

 

That isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just a general observation on this forum. And no, I'm not asking anyone to change anything or be other than they are

[frannie]

"I love my wife, still have sex with her regularly, and function like any other married couple and am only looking for someone for some hot sex and ego stroking on the side. I will never leave my wife and will only continue to be with you for as long as I can keep this hidden from my wife, and as long as you continue to be discreet and meet my needs while putting your own needs aside."

 

Why on earth would ANYONE want to willingly and knowingly be with a man who would say something like that?

 

Of course the MM must lie to some extent to the OW or else she wouldn't stick around. At least I would hope no one would lower their personal standards to that point.

 

I'm sure MM's fabricated spiel is something more along the lines of:

 

"I care about my wife as the mother of my children. She is more like a sister though. We don't even share a bed and we never have sex, or if we do its like she just lays there and doesn't respond to me. I need more than dry spells and duty sex - I need passion and fire in my life and you and you alone can provide that to me so that I can endure this unhappy and lonely marriage that I am stuck with. I only love you, and want to be with only you but can't just leave my wife and kids. Will you stay by my side even though I'm unhappily married and can't get out of the marriage?"

 

So... which is it OW hear most often? The truth or the fabrication designed to elicit sympathy and make him look like a marriage victim/martyr?

 

Currently I am hearing:

 

"I'm past caring about her, because of this resentment that's built up inside me over years of being sexually and emotionally rejected by her. Our relationship is finished and I have no desire to rekindle anything with her. Yes, we sleep in the same bed but we don't have sex. I no longer have a desire to sleep with her; it's hard to care when someone pushes you away at every turn. I love my children and I hate the thought of living in a separate house to them, but I can no longer base my life on the joy I get from tucking them up in bed at night. I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you, not her. I know that the only way that can happen is if I leave her, and get my own place, and sort out access with the children."

[frannie]

They stay for the same reason MM stays. They don't have romantic love (not all the time, at least if the MM is diverting it to an OW) but what they do have:

 

1. Security

2. Comfort

3. Family legacy

4. Companionship for life

5. Home

6. Vacations

7. Holidays

8. Parenting partners, raising children together

9. A warm body to cuddle next to in bed

10. Family connection

11. Family events

12. Chance at reconcilation

 

... and so on.

 

Is this a list of things that a BS supposedly has after she knows her H has had an affair? I'm asking because a lot of those things depend on trust, and rebuilding trust with someone is very hard when they've let you down: it certainly doesn't just 'happen'.

 

So the idea of 'a companion for life' and 'security' and 'a home' and 'comfort' might not be so solid in the mind of someone whose husband may only be staying for the children.

 

Similarly, how empty may 'family connections, events and legacies' be when you know that your relationship was based on a lie for so long..?

 

I just don't know, but I don't think it's as simple as all this.

[LucreziaBorgia]

1. Is this a list of things that a BS supposedly has after she knows her H has had an affair?

2. I'm asking because a lot of those things depend on trust, and rebuilding trust with someone is very hard when they've let you down: it certainly doesn't just 'happen'.

3. So the idea of 'a companion for life' and 'security' and 'a home' and 'comfort' might not be so solid in the mind of someone whose husband may only be staying for the children.

4. Similarly, how empty may 'family connections, events and legacies' be when you know that your relationship was based on a lie for so long..?

 

1. Those are reasons for reconciliation and rebuilding.

2. It does take work, and trust can be rebuilt (albeit slowly) through perseverance and therapy once the affair person is out of the picture.

3. Rarely is it 'only about the children' - otherwise MM would leave. Lots of men divorce, but many stay for the reasons I listed above. They have a life built - a life that is more than just 'staying for the children' and they are hesitant to give that life up.

4. That's what reconciliation and marriage rebuilding are for. The life didn't start out as a lie nor was it based on one, and the reconciliation and rebuilding helps to work toward recapturing that time before the lies started.

 

Understand that the story you are getting is quite different than the one the W gets. Should the affair be found out, the same man who professed great unhappiness to you likely cries and begs his W not to leave him, or at the very least agrees to NC/MC.

 

Is it always that simple? Nah. Some people are in genuinely unhappy marriages (even without the affairs) and some people stay just for the kids.

 

I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you, not her. I know that the only way that can happen is if I leave her, and get my own place, and sort out access with the children."

 

Has he set a date for separation/divorce yet?

[Guest]

He lies to his wife, his children (if he has them), his parents, probably his boss but he doesn't lie to you.

 

And he's made it clear that he isn't leaving his wife for you and you're fine with that.

 

So what's the problem? Perhaps it's the nagging worry of what will happen to you d-day? We all know what will happen then, can you live with it?

[NoIDidn't]

Currently I am hearing:

 

"I'm past caring about her, because of this resentment that's built up inside me over years of being sexually and emotionally rejected by her. Our relationship is finished and I have no desire to rekindle anything with her. Yes, we sleep in the same bed but we don't have sex. I no longer have a desire to sleep with her; it's hard to care when someone pushes you away at every turn. I love my children and I hate the thought of living in a separate house to them, but I can no longer base my life on the joy I get from tucking them up in bed at night. I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you, not her. I know that the only way that can happen is if I leave her, and get my own place, and sort out access with the children."

 

Frannie,

 

I am sorry, but this doesn't give you a right to jugde his W or his M. People in As, male or female, always re-write history to fit their actions. Doesn't make it so until he moves out and starts D procedures.

 

In another post you said the M is based on lies. Not true, my dear. Everyone around them knows that they are M. Their M is not a secret. His A with you is. And it is based on whatever lies he chooses to use to have it at the time.

 

He may very well mean every word that he says to you, when his W is not around. Doesn't make it true until he says it to HER as well.

[noforgiveness]

I love the whole idea of yes we sleep in the same bed but do not have sex.

 

Yea right? You really believe they SLEEP together but never touch? If he has that much resentent built up why would he go to seep next to her and wake up next to her everyday? Not quite the way any sane person would want to end and start the day. Next to someone they hate. He's feeding you a line. Sorry.

[tinktronik]

I love the whole idea of yes we sleep in the same bed but do not have sex.

 

Yea right? You really believe they SLEEP together but never touch? If he has that much resentent built up why would he go to seep next to her and wake up next to her everyday? Not quite the way any sane person would want to end and start the day. Next to someone they hate. He's feeding you a line. Sorry.

I agree here , anyone with that much resentment / hatred leaves . they do not stay . the problem with many emotions including love is they are not static , they change with the whole tone of your life / day . week, whatever. Its easy to say you resent or hate your spouse when you want out and are sitting next to something new fun and exciting ; but not so easy when you walk through the door to someone who you have known and built a life with after work and you do feel love for your spouse .Often untill you need to leave to see your OW or OM again, so you build your own resentment in able to be able to continue on with something that has already begun.

[NearlyThere]

I love the whole idea of yes we sleep in the same bed but do not have sex.

 

Yea right? You really believe they SLEEP together but never touch? If he has that much resentent built up why would he go to seep next to her and wake up next to her everyday? Not quite the way any sane person would want to end and start the day. Next to someone they hate. He's feeding you a line. Sorry.

 

Again I will say the below,

 

1. You only have to read posts on other boards on this site about H's and partners saying that their wives do not have sex with them, a couple of posters spring straight to mind but am not going to name them.

 

2. I did not have sex with my partner for 4 years, YES, 4 years and YES it was in the same bed, with about 3 ft of space between us, it got to the point i did not want him to touch me, therefore if he had gone out and had an affair and said I am not getting sex at home, he would have been being completely truthful. So by logic, it is perfectly conceivable that MM are being truthful on this point as well.

 

I'm not going to copy the 3rd point in again.

 

Also Frannie did not say, from what I can tell, that he hates his wife and being next to her, she said he said was "it's hard to care when someone pushes you away at every turn" and "love my children and I hate the thought of living in a separate house to them"

[noforgiveness]

nearlythere why would you ever stay with someone for four long years without touching? Just seems crazy to me. I can not imagine sleeping next to someone that i could not stand to touch.

 

Sorry I think snoring together is pretty intimate and i would not want that kind of intimacy with someone i couldn't stand.