Liars??

[whichwayisup]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but most OW who have posted here - past and present, were/are trying to get out of an affair with their MM or try to get over him, not stay in one.

 

Can'tGiveUp, you're happy with your situation so I don't know why you're posting, period.

[stillhere]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but most OW who have posted here - past and present, were/are trying to get out of an affair with their MM or try to get over him, not stay in one.

 

Can'tGiveUp, you're happy with your situation so I don't know why you're posting, period.

 

So i and many others should not be posting as well? Just because we aren't planning on getting out at this very moment?

 

We may not be ecstatic with our situations, but we do fall on hard times and wish to hear support from others.

[tinktronik]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but most OW who have posted here - past and present, were/are trying to get out of an affair with their MM or try to get over him, not stay in one.

 

Can'tGiveUp, you're happy with your situation so I don't know why you're posting, period.

WW , your not a BW are you ?

 

So that would make you what ? an objective observer ? If that is the case are you here to offer a helping hand , advice that you feel is in the best interest of the OP involved.

 

That is what I get from your posts , im not really sure why you get such a hard time on the OW portion of the message boards.

[whichwayisup]

So i and many others should not be posting as well? Just because we aren't planning on getting out at this very moment?

 

We may not be ecstatic with our situations, but we do fall on hard times and wish to hear support from others.

 

You're trying to pick apart what I said and turn it into an arguement and make it about you. And you're taking what I've said out of context. This has nothing to do with you, I was replying to CGU's post.

 

If you want to dicuss it further, then please PM me. There's been enough arguing recently and I don't intend to start any wars here.

 

Sometimes words jump off the page the wrong way and can be taken the wrong way as well...And I'm saying this respectfully.

[Can'tGiveUp]

stillhere - thanks for the kind words. Can't imagine hanging out here long enough to get PM privileges... Have found another board and have been lurking and reading but haven't posted on it yet. Perhaps I will find you there...

 

WWIU - perhaps you should read more of the posts - I don't think that there are many OW's who would ever recommend this situation to another or suggest that it is always a happy place to be. I came here seeking discussions with others in similar situations. To find out how others deal with some of the unique issues that we deal with.

[BenThereDunThat]

CGU, i wish you wouldn't leave............i would give you the link to our other site, but you can't get PM's yet. I am not going to list that site for all to see, and i'm definetely not giving out my email address!!

 

Stick around and post long enough to get PM's, because we could use someone like you, and i know you could use us!!

 

Same here...I did find out the site is still functioning. Can't give out my email address, and definitely won't post the site here!

 

I feel funny inviting anyone though since I haven't been there in so long....

[TheDiva]

I constantly read about how MM is lying to both OW and W. And of course, unless they have an amazingly open M, he is lying to W.

 

MM doesn't lie to me. We have been very open from the beginning. Yes, this was a deliberately started A. We had numerous conversations before we entered into a PA. He has never promised to leave W. I want him to leave her. End of discussion, we don't talk about it anymore.

 

Our discussions do include how we are feeling about what is happening, we talk about the guilt we feel and the pain that will hopefully only affect us. We are honest with each other and we do live in the present only. We will worry about the future when it comes.

 

But we don't lie to each other. Am I the only one? Do all the other MMs spin tales for the future? Or is it just others who need to believe that he lies to everyone?

 

Then you would be one in a million in my estimation. (IE my opinion just covering my bases.) You are a HOW. With one exception, HOW's normally don't want him to leave the M. But you are still happy with what you have. While I don't condone this sitch, I have no ill will toward anyone. Be happy while it lasts, and if/when it ends walk away without regret.

 

 

 

MM spin all kinds of tales to further their own agenda. It seems often times it comes from a script and there is a reason for that. Because IT WORKS. OW will believe it until the proof is laid on the table. Even then she will believe a while longer that MM is spouting truth. Same holds for a MW/OM and BS sitches. All will believe that the "offending" party is being truthful to them. I don't think this is a bad thing. It's probably a sort of emotional protector, to keep each one from going off the deep end. Belief comes in stages until full acceptance of whatever the outcome is.

 

The BS and OW actually have this in common. Both need to believe that MM is telling the absolute truth. The only problem is this is usually HIS truth. You know the three sides to every story; his story, her story and the truth.

[GreenEyedLady]

Then you would be one in a million in my estimation. (IE my opinion just covering my bases.) You are a HOW. With one exception, HOW's normally don't want him to leave the M. But you are still happy with what you have. While I don't condone this sitch, I have no ill will toward anyone. Be happy while it lasts, and if/when it ends walk away without regret.

 

 

 

MM spin all kinds of tales to further their own agenda. It seems often times it comes from a script and there is a reason for that. Because IT WORKS. OW will believe it until the proof is laid on the table. Even then she will believe a while longer that MM is spouting truth. Same holds for a MW/OM and BS sitches. All will believe that the "offending" party is being truthful to them. I don't think this is a bad thing. It's probably a sort of emotional protector, to keep each one from going off the deep end. Belief comes in stages until full acceptance of whatever the outcome is.

 

The BS and OW actually have this in common. Both need to believe that MM is telling the absolute truth. The only problem is this is usually HIS truth. You know the three sides to every story; his story, her story and the truth.

 

Very wise words...

[Trialbyfire]

Point blank, MM who cheat on their wives are liars. That OW believe that these men will be honest with them versus the woman that they have promised to love, honour and cherish above all others mostly before a higher power such as God and the law, completely baffles me.

[tinktronik]

Point blank, MM who cheat on their wives are liars. That OW believe that these men will be honest with them versus the woman that they have promised to love, honour and cherish above all others mostly before a higher power such as God and the law, completely baffles me.

An interesting thought here , Yes MM have to be qualified liars to live another life . The huge majority i'm sure lie to all parties , but it it just too difficult for the BS to believe that the tides have turned so far as that the MM may be honest with his OW? I don't believe this is the case , but Im sure somewhere , somehow, it is.

[norajane]

An interesting thought here , Yes MM have to be qualified liars to live another life . The huge majority i'm sure lie to all parties , but it it just too difficult for the BS to believe that the tides have turned so far as that the MM may be honest with his OW? I don't believe this is the case , but Im sure somewhere , somehow, it is.

 

A really good liar once told me that the trick is to stick as close to the truth as possible.

 

I believe a MM can be honest with an OW, but only to a point. In order to maintain that relationship, he's very likely going to omit telling the whole truth, to spare her feelings or to avoid a confrontation.

 

For example: Yes, he and his W might not have a great relationship overall. But is he going to tell the OW that they shared a tender evening together the night their daughter appeared in her first school play as a ladybug and they were both so proud and it brought them together? Will he tell her about the fabulous sex they had on their anniversary and the beautiful diamond earrings her gave her? Is he going to share the details of their family vacation/holidays/weekends when he and his W and family indulged in together-time and food and comfort and played with the new puppy?

 

I'm just saying there are a lot of things, large and small, that he can't and won't share with the OW because if he did so, he'd jeopardize that relationship. And because he doesn't tell all and share his whole life with her, there's no way she has the full picture. And in that way, he lies to her, even if he is honest in other ways.

[silktricks]

Here's the thing. Most people lie at some time about some things. I doubt that anyone ever tells the truth all the time. (Maybe Mother Teresa did, but I've got my doubts.) The MM is trying to get along in life. For some reason he is in a relationship with two women at the same time. Is that a good choice? No, it isn't, not for any of the three people is it a good choice.

 

Are there some men in this situation who choose to tell more of the truth to one of the women than the other? Almost undoubtedly there is. Does he tell ALL of the truth to one woman (who would by definition have to be the OW). It's possible that one in a million does. But the odds are that he is not telling ALL of the truth to either woman.

 

The problem I have with this is the MM is always made out to be such a terrible person. I would venture to say that most of these men are not terrible people, they have just made terrible (gut-puking terrible) choices. They are in a situation - for some reason - probably not a great reason, but some reason. They are getting something they need, and are willing to do just about anything to keep getting it.

[frannie]

Forgive me if this has already been said. This MM you speak about is a proven liar. He is obviously a good one because chances are, his wife believes he is truthful to her.

 

A lie doesn't necessarily need to be spoken, it can be an action. This MM's actions are saying that he is lying not only to his W and the OW, but also to himself. I also think that frannie is lying to herself. She really wants to believe this guy and nothing we say will convince her otherwise.

 

So, frannie, all I can say to you is I wish you luck!

 

Hello herenow.

 

Yes, he's a proven liar. We all lie, in one way or another. But one can't go through life mistrusting everyone. I that approaching a situation with the knowledge that lies are possible (they always are, with people), but trusting our own judgment of a person, is the best way to live. That's my opinion, yours may vary

 

He may be lying to me. I have no idea. I don't think he is. The proof will be in the pudding. Until then, I'll take him at his word, since I don't have a reason to believe he is lying to me.

 

I'm not lying to myself about anything that I can think of.

 

And thanks for more good wishes... much appreciated

[frannie]

Point blank, MM who cheat on their wives are liars. That OW believe that these men will be honest with them versus the woman that they have promised to love, honour and cherish above all others mostly before a higher power such as God and the law, completely baffles me.

 

Promises to love, honour and cherish... made at one time, are not necessarily possibly to uphold, especially in the face of one not loving, honouring and cherishing in return. Yes, one could be a martyr to concepts... but we're talking about human beings here.

 

No, it's not 'the ideal' to go and cheat... but when the loving, honouring and cherishing has taken a hike... what are you left with..? A very much degraded situation of a common home, friends, family, children... So she's decided she's not loving you any longer... what do you do..? Give up on your children..? Why? Who leaves in that situation? No man. So you carry on.

 

... then along comes someone you feel differently about (let's not define it right now)... love and honour and cherish suddenly mean something again... And it's possible to have something meaningful with another human being once more. And yes, AT THIS POINT... lying to the person who is no longer loving you is an option. Something you may never have thought you would do... is something you can do, because ... it's all too late.

 

A MM who lies to his wife because of this situation isn't necessarily one who would lie to someone he was in an active, loving relationship with. The marriage may be there, but the loving has left. It is far easier to lie to someone you no longer love, or feel the need to cherish.

 

That, in essence, is how I understand and accept what you feel unable to understand.

[frannie]

A really good liar once told me that the trick is to stick as close to the truth as possible.

 

I believe a MM can be honest with an OW, but only to a point. In order to maintain that relationship, he's very likely going to omit telling the whole truth, to spare her feelings or to avoid a confrontation.

 

For example: Yes, he and his W might not have a great relationship overall. But is he going to tell the OW that they shared a tender evening together the night their daughter appeared in her first school play as a ladybug and they were both so proud and it brought them together? Will he tell her about the fabulous sex they had on their anniversary and the beautiful diamond earrings her gave her? Is he going to share the details of their family vacation/holidays/weekends when he and his W and family indulged in together-time and food and comfort and played with the new puppy?

 

I'm just saying there are a lot of things, large and small, that he can't and won't share with the OW because if he did so, he'd jeopardize that relationship. And because he doesn't tell all and share his whole life with her, there's no way she has the full picture. And in that way, he lies to her, even if he is honest in other ways.

 

Well why would he do that..? It's just unnecessarily hurting the OW. Of course tender moments probably happen now and then. I even have them with my EX! It doesn't mean I want to get back together with him or that I'd prefer to be with him.

 

I don't know if that's dishonesty or just tact

[frannie]

Here's the thing. Most people lie at some time about some things. I doubt that anyone ever tells the truth all the time. (Maybe Mother Teresa did, but I've got my doubts.) The MM is trying to get along in life. For some reason he is in a relationship with two women at the same time. Is that a good choice? No, it isn't, not for any of the three people is it a good choice.

 

Are there some men in this situation who choose to tell more of the truth to one of the women than the other? Almost undoubtedly there is. Does he tell ALL of the truth to one woman (who would by definition have to be the OW). It's possible that one in a million does. But the odds are that he is not telling ALL of the truth to either woman.

 

The problem I have with this is the MM is always made out to be such a terrible person. I would venture to say that most of these men are not terrible people, they have just made terrible (gut-puking terrible) choices. They are in a situation - for some reason - probably not a great reason, but some reason. They are getting something they need, and are willing to do just about anything to keep getting it.

 

I think that's a fair summation of things as I would see them too.

 

I'd say that the MM has a gut-pukingly terrible decision to make (a MM with children, that is). Does he turn his children's life upside down, and his own in respect of not seeing them so much, and everyone's in fact, in order to follow his heart..?

 

To me, lying to a spouse who seems to have lost all interest in one seems a fair enough proposition in comparison to that. But perhaps that makes me morally bankrupt? I don't know.

[Trialbyfire]

An interesting thought here , Yes MM have to be qualified liars to live another life . The huge majority i'm sure lie to all parties , but it it just too difficult for the BS to believe that the tides have turned so far as that the MM may be honest with his OW? I don't believe this is the case , but Im sure somewhere , somehow, it is.

I think it's very few and far between where the MM is completely honest with anyone. If he were honest, he would leave the marriage and then enter into the next phase of his life.

[whichwayisup]

I think it's very few and far between where the MM is completely honest with anyone. If he were honest, he would leave the marriage and then enter into the next phase of his life.

 

Or end it with the OW and fix his marriage. Either way, for the OW and his wife, would help them if he actually made a choice. Problem is, MM mainly think of themselves and their own needs first, which is probably why most MM get to have their cake and eat it too.

[Trialbyfire]

Promises to love, honour and cherish... made at one time, are not necessarily possibly to uphold, especially in the face of one not loving, honouring and cherishing in return. Yes, one could be a martyr to concepts... but we're talking about human beings here.

 

No, it's not 'the ideal' to go and cheat... but when the loving, honouring and cherishing has taken a hike... what are you left with..? A very much degraded situation of a common home, friends, family, children... So she's decided she's not loving you any longer... what do you do..? Give up on your children..? Why? Who leaves in that situation? No man. So you carry on.

 

... then along comes someone you feel differently about (let's not define it right now)... love and honour and cherish suddenly mean something again... And it's possible to have something meaningful with another human being once more. And yes, AT THIS POINT... lying to the person who is no longer loving you is an option. Something you may never have thought you would do... is something you can do, because ... it's all too late.

 

A MM who lies to his wife because of this situation isn't necessarily one who would lie to someone he was in an active, loving relationship with. The marriage may be there, but the loving has left. It is far easier to lie to someone you no longer love, or feel the need to cherish.

 

That, in essence, is how I understand and accept what you feel unable to understand.

When a marriage has deteriorated to this point, it's time for the MM to leave. Children are no excuse to stay because children are damaged by an unhealthy relationship. If the MM and the W are fighting or not affectionate, they will not have good role models to grow up with. An honest MM will leave but still preserve good relations with his W, so that they can share the upbringing of the kids. That's what custody agreements reinforce, that both parents have access to the kids unless one parent is negligent or abusive. If the W is unreasonable, revert to the legal terms of the custody agreement.

 

Too often MM use the excuse of martyrdom so the can have both women. One to take care of his home domestic needs (including sharing an unchaste bed) and the other to take care of whatever he feels he lacks or desires outside of his marriage bed. Also, some MM are reluctant to split or lose a portion of their assets. I'm not certain a MM who puts assets before his woman is really something worthwhile to keep.

[Lostgurl]

.

 

So yes, he lies - and I'm sure a lot of MM do. .

 

I'm sorry Catharsis.... But Cheating is the biggest lie in it's self......

 

It's just my opinion. But it's what i believe.

[Trialbyfire]

Or end it with the OW and fix his marriage. Either way, for the OW and his wife, would help them if he actually made a choice. Problem is, MM mainly think of themselves and their own needs first, which is probably why most MM get to have their cake and eat it too.

See, this is the part that really bothers me. I would never hang on to someone who seriously wanted out. If the man is straight up about it, my response would be accepting. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't be upset but I would accept it and continue on. In my situation, I even told him from the beginning that I would let him go if he ever wanted out, just don't involve me in a triangle. So...what does he do?

 

The more I think of my triangular relationship, the more I realize that it's the lack of knowing and the lack of control of my own life that bothers me the most. That two other people could take that dignity away from me and have something covert on the side, is so debilitating. That someone could so easily break the trust, respect and love unselfishly given and turn it into something perverted, is so debilitating. It's creepy and sickening for me.

 

When I busted him about it with only a small amount of superficial knowledge of what was going on, he dumped her less than 10 hours afterwards including a night's sleep. It was that easy for him and made him realize how little she meant to him. She was a MW and no innocent in the seduction by any stretch of the imagination, considering that she initiated the pursuit and continued from there. She even stated directly to me that she knew he was "madly in love" with me but was remorseless about any of it. She still wanted him, even then and continued trying to contact him afterwards although he never reciprocated any of her attempts.

 

It took another couple of weeks for me to find out more and more, like opening up Pandora's box. Then, he finally admitted why he did it. It was because he thought he would never get caught and that it was purely a selfish act. He admitted what a slimeball he was, was hurt to the core and very sorry for what he had done. He also admitted that I was the best thing that ever happened to him, that he would never again meet someone like me, and that he doubted that he could ever care about anyone else again. At this point, I was so revolted and numb that I shut it down permanently.

 

Hell will rot over before I ever even consider taking him back, nevermind agreeing to do it. The strangest part is that I don't hate him. I'm just revolted by him. A man with no integrity is bad enough but one who pretends to have moral fibre is far worse.

[frannie]

When a marriage has deteriorated to this point, it's time for the MM to leave. Children are no excuse to stay because children are damaged by an unhealthy relationship. If the MM and the W are fighting or not affectionate, they will not have good role models to grow up with. An honest MM will leave but still preserve good relations with his W, so that they can share the upbringing of the kids. That's what custody agreements reinforce, that both parents have access to the kids unless one parent is negligent or abusive. If the W is unreasonable, revert to the legal terms of the custody agreement.

 

Too often MM use the excuse of martyrdom so the can have both women. One to take care of his home domestic needs (including sharing an unchaste bed) and the other to take care of whatever he feels he lacks or desires outside of his marriage bed. Also, some MM are reluctant to split or lose a portion of their assets. I'm not certain a MM who puts assets before his woman is really something worthwhile to keep.

 

I still don't think that a man will walk away from his marriage simply because his wife doesn't love him in the way he would like. There is too much at stake, it is too selfish an act... and for what? So he can be alone? So he can see less of his children? Is that really beneficial? How will 'good relationships' be modelled by a H and W living apart? It's not necessarily the case that the separated people will find other partners more suitable.

[whichwayisup]

Hell will rot over before I ever even consider taking him back, nevermind agreeing to do it. The strangest part is that I don't hate him. I'm just revolted by him. A man with no integrity is bad enough but one who pretends to have moral fibre is far worse.

 

Good for you!

 

Many say the opposite of love IS indifference, not hate. Sounds like you're in a healthy, good place right now.

[Catharsis]

Good for you!

 

Many say the opposite of love IS indifference, not hate. Sounds like you're in a healthy, good place right now.

 

I agree 100%. When I found out about the blatant lies exMM has been telling, I lost pretty much all the respect for him. Upon seeing the truth in front of me my "Prince Charming" morphed into a frog in record time. I have nothing but contempt for him, as he also pretends to be this honest,upstanding guy and his wife totally believes it. Still tempted to send her copies of all his nasty mails so she'll wake up and see him for what he is too.

[BenThereDunThat]

I agree 100%. When I found out about the blatant lies exMM has been telling, I lost pretty much all the respect for him. Upon seeing the truth in front of me my "Prince Charming" morphed into a frog in record time. I have nothing but contempt for him, as he also pretends to be this honest,upstanding guy and his wife totally believes it. Still tempted to send her copies of all his nasty mails so she'll wake up and see him for what he is too.

 

Wow. You sound like you could be my twin....I work with mine and having to watch him pal around with his female friends here who believe he is this upstanding, church-going, loyal husband, makes me ill. I would love nothing more than to open their eyes too. If it were possible without me looking bad in the process, I would.